TRPG General Chat

12:43 AM

Mornin all

hey there @Ben

o/

Quick question

Just how railroad-y are pre-written campaigns?

Any particular adventure paths in mind, or just the general concept?

Just the general concept. This is the first session, of the first pre-written game I've played...

But it was incredibly obvious

So what game are you playing?

12:46 AM

Tombs of Annihilation, if I'm not mistaken

To be fair, in my experience it's the "onboarding" that can be the most forced-feeling.

5e

@Ben You're down in Chult, there's a death curse, &c?

Yeah. That was just revealed

We haven't done much other than be made aware of the situation

@Ben In general, they tend to rely on a "hey, a quest! let's do that!" mentality.

12:48 AM

There's an inherent tension many times when playing an adventure path: you, the players have all sat down at a table with a book full of content in it and said "let's get together every week for some months and we'll play through what's in there." But the characters don't necessarily have any investment in the driving forces in the book.

Ok. That's fair.

It can be mitigated a bit by having a start that says "you're all from this area, and something's going to threaten it, so write that into your background," but even that feels pretty flimsy when you're in your character's head thinking "why am I doing this, again?"

So for example, while Princes of the Apocalypse was very sandboxy in some ways, it still depended on the party reacting to "weird bad stuff is happening in the area" with "we're going to investigate it" not "we're going to go find a better area with less weird bad stuff and live out our lives in peace".

I mean, part of the problem is that we're playing on Discord, but it's text based, rather than voice char (some Players get way more into RP if it's text-based). This ultimately does slow a lot of things down, so it's fair that some might want to push the game along a bit

Pre-written campaigns and campaign material can be great, IME, if they're dropped naturally into an ongoing campaign. As in, "we learned that the villain we've been fighting for years has a hideout in that valley" and the GM goes to grab $location-based-module-they-played-ten-years-ago and reskins it to match. I've had great fun doing this in the past.

12:51 AM

The game of Storm King's Thunder I'm playing in is running into problems of that nature - we're very much aware that giants are rampaging all over the place, but so far what's actually kept us moving has been "someone asked us to do this", and we've sort of run out of those.

I did speak to the DM about this. And I mentioned that here before too. The DM basically just dumped the entire previous campaign and dropped us into the PWC.

But when you have a hardcover that's statted to bring PCs from level 1 to 15 and be self-contained, well, that's designed to say "you're going to be playing a while, and it's this you're going to be playing."

@Miniman Where are you in that book?

@Ben Yeah, without the buy-in that, for many groups is sort of assumed/implicit, it's going to be an uphill battle.

But after speaking with the DM about it, he said he had woven it into the previous campaign, same world, etc, and tied a PC's backstory into it. (Rather flakily IMO).

@Miniman I am not sure how any group can hold up without buy in, it's one of the most important things for this hobby

12:54 AM

But, as I Decided I wanted to try and find out what I could about the plot hooks (wanted posters for one of the PCs), a lot of that was pretty much skipped over
Me: "I want to go to the Inn and see what I can find out about these posters"
DM: "Ok, the hour passes"

:/

@nitsua60 Not having read the book, I'm going to have to drop a bunch of spoilers to describe that, so I've made a room for it.

@trogdor I mean, most of the groups I've played with have never really had to think about this stuff - we just all sort of know what a quest looks like and that doing them is the way to go, if you see what I mean.

Storm King's Thunder spoilers

For discussion about the Storm King's Thunder campaign, spoile...

@Miniman our group has had to work on it sometimes honestly

I am not saying it has been an actual issue, just that the conciousness of it has been necessary

This also leads into the other problem which I prefaced before - a lot of RP is being skipped over, creating "plot holes" in the story. One PC might be wary of a situation, but after a particular twist, everyone is ok with it because players want to keep the story going

Partly because we don't stick to one system at all

I wonder how much of the difficulty with/necessity for buy-in comes from one's "stance" on the immersion spectrum comes from? I mean, if you're fully "in-character" the response to almost anything in a typical D&D campaign is going to be "let someone else worry about it, these potatos ain't be digging themselves." But if you're in "game-play" mode then the answer is "danger!? Sounds like fun, and if I die, I die."

12:59 AM

A game of D&D does not look like GOG, does not look like Lady Blackbird, does not look like GSS ect

@Ben Certainly text is tough, time constraints are tough, the pressure to just "go along" and get on with the [prewritten] story, already....

@nitsua60 To clarify what you mean by "buy in"....?

@nitsua60 a lot of people have a different definition of in character from you apparently

Like... what is the particular reason a PC is invested in this story/quest?

@Ben buy in is the group consensus on what the game is

1:01 AM

@Ben PC and the player and the players.

Right

Well, I don't think there was much of that at all.

The real thing is, at a table of six there's, like, a hundred different things going on. And not all of them point in the same direction.

And the willingness or eagerness to actually invest in it

@trogdor I have a different definition of "in character" that varies probably a half-dozen times in the course of a session =)

@nitsua60 fair enough

Man this new phone is actually better for replying to people

1:04 AM

I think that's the issue here. We have on player that is hooked, due to character back-story involvement (her family was killed and needs to be revived), the other PC is "Oh! A quest!", and then there's me. Lol

It was effectively a "if I have to" type response.

@Ben my experience of the "new model" (Paizo-era, is my understanding) of adventure paths is that they play much like we did with the old "mega-module" of old: we decided we were finally going to tackle the old Mentzer Temple of Elemental Evil, we made up some characters for it, we played through it, and didn't worry too much about where they were from or where they were going after that. Very different from our "campaign characters" who had homes, families, connections, &c.

I think the issue is that I was very invested in our last story, only to be ripped out of that early, and dumped into this story (It was the DM's decision. We were not involved in that decision, only informed).

@Ben That's too bad.

I understand why the DM decided they wanted to do that. It was a long period of time between the games, and the fact we were playing text based, so managing that all was a bit of a struggle.

That isn't too cool

1:11 AM

I think it might be time for a group discussion. We've been playing in Discord for a few games now, got into the rhythm of things, etc.

Might be worthwhile actually putting everything on the table and talking about how we all feel it's going, and how the issues should be handled, if the group feels they should be handled.

It sounds like that should happen yeah

I can't recommend discussions over group disconnection enough

If it doesn't happen the problems never get fixed

1:26 AM

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小動物

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1:43 AM

Ugh

"Ok, so lets nut this out. How does everyone feel about (xyz)?"

"You know. I'm cool with whatever."

@Ben yeah, some people just don't want to rock the boat even when it's time to

Productive...

It takes practice to learn self-reflection, and to tell the difference between humility and not helping.

I know I still struggle with expressing exactly what I want or don't want out of a game.

If "How do you feel about [thing]?" were easy for everybody to figure out, therapists and counselors wouldn't be nearly as useful.

As usual, @BESW cuts right to the heart of the matter ^^

2:14 AM

Well some progress was made.

But it was only my issues that were addressed. Everyone else stuck with the "I'm cool" response

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 just go back into town, pls advise when ToA discussion comes up. Just saw a flag from Shal on that topic.

hey there @KorvinStarmast -- I was simply passing along your ping to nits

KorvinStarmast

OK, I am still catching up, I'll try to keep tabs on the topic

2:44 AM

@Ben are you sure anyone else had something to bring up?

hey there @Asteria

@trogdor Yes. Because people have spoken to me.

The problem is that I'm a bit more approachable (just as a part of my nature).

hey hey @Shalvenay

@Asteria how're things going?

@Shalvenay slowly. whats up with chu

2:48 AM

@Ben I'm guessing the Approachable nature gives you lowered Special Defense?

@Miniman actually it gives me advantage on surprise attacks and bargaining rolls if I need them

But also, perhaps, one level of exhaustion?

That is the payoff

@Asteria alright here, came up with a more conventional mini-campaign for 5e so I might have a go at running that. also wondering if Blades in the Dark would be good to pick up for teaching a couple of the newbs under my wing about narrativist RPG systems, or if I'd be better off using DW or Fate for that

@Shalvenay our blades group had two newbies, and it seemed to work fairly well with them.

2:54 AM

@Ben doesn't sound like a problem in itself :P

@Asteria good. mind reminding me a bit of what the default setting is btw?

@trogdor not overly, but that does mean that I'm playing chinese whispers for everyone

And it means that they're not talking to the DM

Here's to good GM habits: just cranked out an exam in about ten minutes, largely by converting a project a kid did six years ago into a series of questions and exercises. So "yay" for (a) reusing prep, and (b) taking good notes =)

@Ben that is an issue

@Shalvenay we played a custom campaign, but the basic's is that the world is shrouded in darkness and has been for years. Cities are protected from demons and monsters by giant domes that cover them (these are powered by Leviathan blood, which has to be harvested by Leviathan Hunters)....Players are a band of misfits (they need to pick a crew type, we picked assassins) and you go off doing naughty things and try not to die

2:59 AM

Yeah. I mean, I have spoken to him one on one a couple of times about things that people have spoken to me about, that I agreed with, so it was a better situation, but if players have issues with the game, the DM should be the one made aware

That's why I'm trying to have this conversation

@Asteria also, now a good time for us to talk on Discord some more? :)

@Ben mmm that does suck

@Shalvenay sure

Someone knows what is a trinket in D&D e5? I've just found that in the starting guide. There are a hundred of them. Is is supossed that the DM must give them an use?

@EnderLook can you give us a bit of context as to the reference?

3:11 AM

> Per the PHB, trinkets can be "lightly touched by mystery": they can be mundane or have very minor magical effects.

> Trinkets When you make your character, you can roll once on the Trinkets table to gain a trinket, a simple item lightly touched by mystery. The DM might also use this table. It can help stock a room in a dungeon or fill a creature’s pockets.

The last sentence is quite strange...

That's in reference to loot

@EnderLook It's pp.160-161 of the PHB.

For example, if you loot a body, it may have a trinket on them

@Ben I think you can conjure "trinkets" with prestidigitation as well.

3:12 AM

@nitsua60 I don't know what is that, but it is in page 55 of starting guide.

"As you search the goblin, in its left hand it is holding tightly onto a small wooden horse. On the bottom, it has the initials "L.J."

@EnderLook Sorry--the (P)layer's (H)and(b)ook.

@nitsua60 Oh, english isn't my main language so I don't know much of abbreviations.

Gotcha--will try to remember.

What is your main language?

Spanish

3:15 AM

Basically a trinket is something that isn't overly valuable in a game, but can still stand out among other items, this can (and usually is) used as a form of plot hook to some degree

@Ben So the DM sometime use a trinket of a character to make something in the plot?

@Ben I had "a small stone vial of water from a Moonwell" as my trinket for the character I played in Storm King's Thunder. Right there, on the page, from session 1. I ran it by my GM, even made clear it wouldn't function as holy water. Just a keepsake of my home, the Moonshaes.

I'm sorry, I don't know much of this... :(

@nitsua60 Also useful to know that Ender Look discovered tabletop RPGs two days ago.

@EnderLook Don't apologise :) it's good to ask, because that's how you learn

3:17 AM

Yes!!

Nine months (real-time) later we were level 13 and needed to appease $something at a bad altar. "Well, I've carried this bottle of water from a sacred Moonwell thousands of miles...." Who says a bit of backstory doesn't pay off?

@BESW Aha!

@EnderLook They can. Yes. Personally that's how I use them.

@Ben With "I", you mean "I as a DM" or "I as a PC"?

@EnderLook As an example, if you're the DM, and your players kill a goblin and ask what it has in its pockets, rather than just saying "5 gold pieces", you might want to say "the bishop from an ivory chess set, 6 copper pieces, 2 silver pieces, and a piece of string". It can help make it seem less like a computer game.

@Miniman Great,

3:20 AM

@EnderLook As a DM, I use them as a plot hook.

So the Trinkets table can help with coming up with random things like that, or if you see an item you think your players might find particularly intriguing, you might base a whole campaign around it.

Ah, is it Dungeour Master, Game Director or Game Master the proper term?

@EnderLook Dungeon Master and Game Master are both pretty common.

@EnderLook Dungeon Master is generally D&D specific (but is sometimes used informally by folks playing other games), Game Master is the generic term

Ok

3:21 AM

None are wrong though

I haven't heard Game Director before, but I don't think anyone would miss what you meant.

"The guy/gal running the game" haha

@Miniman It's from the spanish guide, for been exactly "Director de Juego"

So, what is on the menu tonight boys and girls? :P

@SoraTamashii Grapes. Sliced longways so as to avoid choking hazards

3:24 AM

@SoraTamashii Zuma whizzing overhead ;)

I love you people. Haha

I just finished lunch, which was a spicy tuna sandwich.

I found in the D&D guide something about food. Need PC eat in a mission?

I still need to eat something for today actually... lol

@EnderLook that's more for campaign-scale stuff than individual quests, although sometimes food is a plot point

3:26 AM

I'd prefer a goodberry

(like the time a giant fruit bat tried to run off with the oranges the PC had in their pack ;)

(remember that one @nitsua60? :)

@Shalvenay What is the duration of a "campaing-scale" game to be a plot point??

@EnderLook eh?

@EnderLook it all dep0ends on whether or not you feel it's relevant. you can assume the PCs always have food, and eat before they rest, or, like Shalv pointed out, if there is a plot point relevant to it, or if you're using special rules like fatigue

you're jumbling unrelated bits of what I said together

3:28 AM

What is the duration of a "campaing-scale"?

@Shalvenay Sorry

@EnderLook campaign, or "long form" play, is spanned across several sessions and quests/missions, up to years-long games

@EnderLook That term isn't used as a duration

Broadly speaking RPGs are divided into sessions (a real-life time unit consisting of the hours spent together one day to play the game), adventures (a complete little story told within the game, which may take one or many sessions to tell), and campaigns (a longer, more complex story told over the course of many adventures).

Think of a campaign as similar to a whole season of a TV show while each episode of the show is an adventure that has its own contained story as well as adding to the season-long story.

Since many RPGs don't have a clear "and then you've won and the whole thing is over" condition, campaigns can last as long as the group is still finding interesting stories to add to their "series."

@BESW Depending on the GM or the campaign.

hands @SoraTamashii a cuddly, fluffy giant fruit bat

3:42 AM

3:56 AM

BESW, I love it! XD

Also, Sha, thank you! :P

4:07 AM

@BESW ooh this again XD

4:47 AM

d

Dice Service

•

Yuuki

> Have I just witnessed three-times Academy Award for Best Lead Actor winner Daniel Day-Lewis watch Tommy Wiseau get on stage for a Golden Globe?

Wait... What?!

Yuuki

> James Franco [winner], Dave Franco, and Tommy Wiseau Accept the Golden Globe for Best Performance by an Actor in a Motion Picture (Musical or Comedy)

...well then...

5:26 AM

Aaaaah finally got that second draft out the door. [falls over]

@BESW rough one?

One of those "Oh, we're going to wait 'til the last minute and then give you all the raw unprocessed material in a lump just before the deadline but also we like to have at least three draft revisions" situations.

Fun

(I'm a print-specialty graphic designer. I do the layout and design for books, newsletters, posters, logos, magazines, that sort of thing. This usually means taking in a lot of badly formatted material that needs to be stripped, proofed and edited, and re-formatted before I can actually start working with it.)

mmm, today our clients changed their specifications again, I don't even remember how many times before this they have done it anymore

5:38 AM

One thing I don't miss about a regular job I used to have, they'd shunt all their submissions through Google Drive for review and then re-download them as Word docs from Drive to give to me instead of giving me the original files.

BESW, that sounds like fun, and totally not just because I want to get into professional writing. wink wink, nudge nudge (serious about the writing, joking about the implication of this message)

@BESW thiiissss issss what is haaaapening

XD

@SoraTamashii Are you aware of Writers?

No I am not. I take it I should look into it? Haha :)

It's not for everybody, but it's worth taking a look.

Their chat room isn't anywhere near as active as this one, but it's friendly.

(Whoops, wrong chat room linked. Fixed now.)

Over the winter holidays the chat room's been reduced to mostly just me sharing writer-related links.

5:45 AM

I'll be sure to check it out when I can, then. :)

@SoraTamashii What kind of writing are you interested in?

Right now, I'm working mainly on a fantasy adventure story (an isekai), but my typical writing is often varying types of romance or deconstructions of the different genres centered around the different types of love.

Ah, so creative fiction, mostly genre fiction.

Mostly, yeah. Haha

Not so much intentionally as it is that it just... happens that way.

(I don't consider "genre fiction" a diminutive, by the way. I think it's a lousy phrase, but it's a useful term of art.)

5:51 AM

Sometimes I mean for it, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'm glad of the results, sometimes I curse myself for it.

Oh, I try to look at intent. I saw no reason to think you meant negatively by it. :)