TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

12:05 AM

@Shalvenay hiya--how's life?

Timi

not too bad

nitsua60

@Timi Hi there! I don't know if we've ever chatted?

Timi

nope

first time in chat

nitsua60

Cool--welcome.

BESW

[wave] Welcome! What brings you here?

Timi

12:11 AM

curiosity

nitsua60

We chat about just-about anything, occasionally including games. Only hard-and-fast rule is to remember to Be Nice.

Timi

not hard to follow that rule

:)

nitsua60

@Timi Glad to hear it =D

Friday nights Europe/US tend to be a little quiet, as you can see on the lower graph. Presumably it's because people are actually gaming?

Miniman

@nitsua60 It's too far back to reply, but on that downvote, that's totally fair - my only defense is that at the time, and revisiting it now, I couldn't and can't come up with any alternate, more permissive phrasing that makes sense in the context of the question.

Timi

@nitsua60 or sleeping. quarter past 1 here, AM

nitsua60

12:15 AM

@Miniman I think the weird thing on that question, looking back at it with my POV now, is that we didn't press OP to provide any detail on how they usually award XP, or what their general stance on XP is.

Miniman

I thought about "you should give full xp for the actions they take", but the question is asking how much xp a specific action is worth.

BESW

Saturday morning for me. I should be getting ready for a book launch.

...and/or prepping for tonight's game.

nitsua60

@BESW Low-Earth orbit?

</rimshot>

@Miniman What would you do? (As the GM?)

Miniman

@nitsua60 I dunno, the method of awarding xp seems so fundamental to the question - why would they even ask if they weren't going by kills?

BESW

You joke, but I could make a tasteless joke about the launch party's location.

Timi

12:17 AM

i give my players xp when i feel like it

Miniman

@nitsua60 Be as realistic as possible about how difficult it is, for a start.

nitsua60

@Timi what system(s)?

@Miniman sure--most encampments don't transition from "whoops! dropped ma torch" to conflagration in 6 sec?

daze413

Is this about the town burning question?

Timi

they kill stuff, standard XP. they interact with someone and get useful info, xp. they do something without realising that will help them later in the game, xp

nitsua60

@daze413 no, the "indirect kills XP" that I linked in a comment on town-burning.

Shalvenay

12:20 AM

hey there @daze413

nitsua60

@Timi what if they kill something they had no particular reason to kill? I.e. do you differentiate between "this dude's in our way, probably easiest to kill 'im" vs. "there's a dude in a field over there, minding 'is own business. I bet we could take 'im!" (I'm not trying to judge either way--just taking people's temperatures on it. It was the topic of lunch conversation at work today.)

BESW

Before I stopped using systems with that kind of XP, I'd already stopped using XP. I chunked adventures by target level and folks leveled up at the end of each chunk. It wound up being more like Fate's milestones, with advancement by narrative arc.

Timi

killing is like practice, and practice is experience

so xp

Miniman

@nitsua60 Aye. Also, yanno, the adventurers aren't the only ones who understand the absolute necessity of leaving someone on watch.

Timi

but the CR is like 0.25 so not much xp

daze413

12:21 AM

Oh... well... The scenario is a bit sketchy, if I'm honest. I don't imagine many many bandits dying if their tents catch fire. Burned, sure, but dying?

BESW

("Every anarchist eventually reinvents society.")

nitsua60

@Timi fairy 'nuff =)

Timi

unless the guy over there is a polymorphed dragon

that would be fun

daze413

@Shalvenay hey hey hey! what's the weirdest thing you gave players XP for/ what's the weirdest thing you did that the GM gave you XP for?

nitsua60

Today's featured attraction: Thor's house of axe-throwing. Coming soon to a mid-tier light industrial zone near you!

Shalvenay

12:25 AM

@daze413 ...I haven't really had to deal with handing out XP much at all haha because I generally don't bother with it in shortform play

can't really recall what the weirdest thing I received XP for was though

Timi

@daze413 Seduced a barmaid, asked her to talk to her boss, who was a vampire, found out that he was a vampire, told me. xp

BESW

"Yeah, I was in charge of the handicraft lodge. Did merits badge for woodcarving. Every week I'd point to the bloodstains on the concrete--

Tweeted by UrsulaV on June 16, 2017 at 4:32 PM

--and say "that was the last kid who didn't listen to my safety instructions." "DID they hurt themselves?" "Oh yeah. Of course."

Tweeted by UrsulaV on June 16, 2017 at 4:33 PM in reply to UrsulaV

Timi

even more weird, my character was female

Miniman

@daze413 The weirdest thing I've been given xp for was spending all our party's gold on an ogre.

Shalvenay

@daze413 I suppose it might have been some of the stuff during Nitsua's monastary adventure. either that or I did once have a DM who handed out XP for using non-weapon proficiencies in 2e...

daze413

12:30 AM

@BESW I tried this. I totally dropped the ball in the execution XD I meant to give players XP after completing tasks in a fancy party. One thing lead to another, the PCs were convinced the hosts were vampires, so they stayed for the "after party" where it turns out the hosts were just sexual deviants, who wanted to engage in advanced debauchery (if you get my meaning). After that, I awarded them XP for the whole fancy ball... They took it as me handing them XP for advanced debauchery...

BESW

Ah, yeah, that may have been a poor establishing moment for the mechanic.

But that's where stuff like "establishing a comfortable dialog with the players about your design choices" is valuable.

Shalvenay

@daze413 ...yeah. cues the six-year-old girl with cute little fangs to go with her cute dress showing up with her parents at the party

who said that vampire rugrats weren't a thing?

daze413

Player: "ohhh yeah debauchery XP!" (side note: the words are softened to align with the stack's PG policy)

@Shalvenay In Philippine folklore we have the Tiyanak, a baby vampire :D

Shalvenay

@daze413 xD

BESW

Philippine monsters are hardcore.

daze413

12:35 AM

@BESW i don't know about that... the German and Russian ones are pretty high up there. Also south korean monsters too

trogdor

@BESW yeah all the ones I have heard of are pretty scary stuff

Shalvenay

@daze413 I have this vision of a whole vampire family who is basically The Folks Next Door haha

BESW

SEA monsters tend to feel more viscerally intense to me.

trogdor

I second that

especially since I dive

that is why I both love and hate the idea that a game like Subnautica exists

its got some pretty awesome underwater places and things,... but the sea monsters man

BESW

(Sorry, by SEA I mean South-East Asia and nearby cultures.)

trogdor

12:38 AM

@BESW well silly me for thinking you weren't into being eaten by huge underwater monstrosities :P

daze413

@trogdor oh, man... nightmare fuel for me, there :p And trypophobia

trogdor

@daze413 ah, that bit actually hardly bothers me at all

it's literally all the darkness + underwater-horrible-creatures-oh-god-why-do-these-exist-TM

my personal thing with the horror genre, at least in games, is that I like it, but I have a low tolerance for it, and also the frankly lazy and cheap trend of jump scares is the bane of my existence

if you can't make something scary without constantly trying to give me an IRL heart attack I don't want it

the main problem is, I don't always know when a game is gonna overuse that stuff, or when it is just trying to set a mood

so I kinda avoid all of them most of the time

daze413

im curious if you think Five Nights at Freddy's qualifies as jump scares that are over used? -Not that I like the game or anything, I haven't played it, but I've seen a few videos of playthroughs

BESW

My dad went to the theatrical release of JAWS with a bunch of SCUBA buddies who'd all dared each other to go on a night dive immediately afterward.

They didn't.

trogdor

12:54 AM

@daze413 yes, I would say so

there are just a ton of those in that game

and as far as I know, at least, jump scares are the only way you even die in it

and you can end up dying a lot I think

I have not played the game mind you, but I was curious enough to watch some of it being played

I did just have to stop eventually though

it was too much of that for me at some point

@daze413 I think, in my radical personal oppinion, jump scares should not be used, or used only like, once or twice at all in any game

some people might disagree with me on that, but I don't really like em

to me they are a cheap trick at best

and they work on me pretty much every time, and I most certainly do not like that

I never beat some of the horror games I have played because I just couldn't continue at the mercy of jump scares specifically

BESW

Troggy and I are on a similar page re: cheap horror.

daze413

fair enough :) The lack of jump scares also made me a fan of the show Stranger Things, I use "no jumpscares" as one of the hooks to get people into it

@trogdor and the mercy of sound, i.e. creepy music... I just turn off the headphones and the game is significantly less scary

trogdor

@daze413 sound is ok with me as long as it isn't just seasoning for a jump scare

but the issue is, yeah usually it is just seasoning for a jump scare

Shalvenay

1:12 AM

hey again @Papayaman1000

Ben

1:33 AM

So I was going to do my epic showdown of friend vs friend today, but the player has apparently vanished :/

daze413

@Ben D: is he/she ok?

Ben

Well, no idea tbh, they live in America and our primary contact is through messenger/skype

So, sadly, if something had happened to them, I'd likely be the last to find out :(

@daze413 It's ok.

They were just in the loo

Now, I do believe it's time to seriously screw with their head

Papayaman1000

Oh, boy!

Ben

Flying furniture anybody?

How about some seriously tight time limits?

daze413

@Ben I'd like to get a flying sofa, my feet can dangle while watching TV, I can take it going to work so I can skip traffic, show SO the world (shining shimmering splendid)

Shalvenay

1:43 AM

so...@Papayaman1000 what's up?

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay Not much

Shalvenay

@Papayaman1000 not a ton here.

Ben

@daze413 Sounds a bit like the double-decker couch hehe

Shalvenay

@daze413 btw -- as much as your campaign sounds interesting to me, the time is an absolute no go

Ben

@Shalvenay Hey @Shalv :)

Shalvenay

1:44 AM

hey there @Ben

Ben

Been a while

daze413

@Shalvenay yeah, I figured it would turn you off XD we could still play on weekends, which are more flexible, though :)

Ben

@Shalvenay You're sounding busy?

@daze413 In respects to that, I'm ok playing in the mornings 9like I am now with my other american friend).

daze413

tbh, I'd really be struggling to DM in English. I go in and out of english in RL games, so I might struggle a bit

Ben

They live in Florida so it's evening-time for them right now

@daze413 oh, english is a second language?

I'd have never guessed!

Papayaman1000

1:47 AM

Unhappy Nerd Day: I was upset to see aivi & surasshu take all their stuff off of soundcloud, but I figured "meh, I'll just buy the soundtrack." But surprise, there's only like 40 songs on the soundtrack, and almost none of them are instrumental. Plus, if I buy the album, I have to get songs like Let me Drive my Van into your Heart (an awful-sounding joke song) and Lapis Lazuli and Wailing Stone, which are nigh-identical 30 second tracks.

daze413

@Ben I can do that for, maybe, weekends, but not weekdays- as I have work at these hours.

Papayaman1000

@daze413 I can second that you speak (type) really good English.

2

Ben

@daze413 Yes, that's what I was suggesting too

daze413

@Ben yeah :D I type real good, me and my friends also speak gud when around each other... But when faced with true english speakers, something just... turns off, I guess?

Ben

Though I realise I never said it haha

@daze413 Well, that could be said of all English speakers as well haha.

my advice: the English language doesn't really have... "rules" per se

Papayaman1000

1:51 AM

@daze413 Anyone does that when learning another language. I've been learning sign, and wow is it intimidating trying to hold a conversation with a Deaf person, despite how supportive they always are.

Ben

Papayaman1000

@Ben And when you subvert these guidelines, you become somebody held in really high regard by awfully pretentious people.

Y'know, I've been wondering for a while: who did the design for RPG.SE? They did an incredible job.

daze413

@Papayaman1000 no kidding, I don't even speak Filipino very well ( I think I speak, read, and write english much better), so when I speak to Filipino-language-only Filipinos, I am really conscious about my grammar... and if they're laughing inside at how stupid I must sound.

Ben

@daze413 where are you from originally?

daze413

@Papayaman1000 designed what? the logo?

Papayaman1000

1:55 AM

@daze413 Just remember, nobody ever really does (unless ur a fackboi tween hoo taks liek dis)

@daze413 The logo, the header, the texture of the chat bar...

Ben

@Papayaman1000 I used to.

daze413

@Papayaman1000 Well, filipino-only filipinos have an infamous record of laughing at us province-folk, because of our poor filipino

Ben

2 days ago, by nitsua60

@JoelHarmon feature-request "groan" button next to "star" button.

Papayaman1000

I wish I could do "leather-bound tome look" that well.

@daze413 Ah, one of those things. Every language has those hecklers. And nobody likes them.

nitsua60

34

Q: Design for RPG.se

Thank you for your helpful suggestions in the design brainstorming post. I am very excited to present to the community the design I've been working on. The overall look and feel I'm going after is a warm and welcoming theme that reflects tabletop RPG gaming. It should capture the visual element...

2

daze413

1:57 AM

@Papayaman1000 I mean, they could mean it lightheartedly and jokingly and stuff, it lessens the blow a bit but deep inside it still stings :)

Ben

@Papayaman1000 It is hard to pick the right colour combination of 'off-white"

Papayaman1000

In ASL, you have literally a separate sign for the "ASL 1 Blank Face", because all the college kids starting to learn never really bother with facial expressions, which are almost more important than the actual signs.

@Ben That it is.

BESW

34

Q: Design for RPG.se

Thank you for your helpful suggestions in the design brainstorming post. I am very excited to present to the community the design I've been working on. The overall look and feel I'm going after is a warm and welcoming theme that reflects tabletop RPG gaming. It should capture the visual element...

discussion status-completed design

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 it was only in reading that post (and its associates) that I realized our badgers are supposed to be dice.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 I thought they were just hexes like on a battlemap.

nitsua60

1:59 AM

(Well, don't star both of them... there's only so much room over there ------> )

daze413

@Ben I am from a province in the Philippines, Cebu City, second largest city in the country (next to the capital, Manila). We- along with ~70% of other Filipinos, speak a dialect called "Visayan", despite being the dominant filipino language, Visayan was not chosen as the Filipino language early in our history- politics and all that, being held in the capital, Manila (who speak another dialect, tagalog, which was eventually chosen as THE language)

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Then to you for being quick on the draw.

@daze413 Gah. Japanese is like that too. All three major cities have their own local dialect, and they can always spot the tourist because Kyoto Japanese is the textbook Japanese.

Even people in Kyoto usually speak a different dialect, which is confusing af

Like guys

daze413

@nitsua60 we have badgers?! Do they roll well on glass? :D

Papayaman1000

I'm just trying to get stuff

Shalvenay

@Ben kinda sorta

Ben

2:02 AM

@Papayaman1000 "WARR IZZ THE THING"

Papayaman1000

If I knew they were dice, I never would've had that "oh these guys are so clever" moment that I did when I first joined.

Ben

@Shalvenay life goes like that doesn't it :/

Ok this talk of badgers has me confused

WHERE ARE THE BADGERS

Papayaman1000

@Ben ...sore wa dokodesu ka?

BESW

Bah, sorry, I was looking away while searching and didn't see your link, @nitsua60.

daze413

and do they roll well? Do we need a badger tower?

Ben

2:03 AM

@Papayaman1000 New fone... who dis?

Papayaman1000

@Ben It's kinda funny if you spell phone right and just leave it with no punctuation whatsoever

nitsua60

@BESW no worries =)

Papayaman1000

Hell, the way I got my friends' contact info when I did get a new phone the other day is just put "new phone who dis" in the group chat and wait for everyone to state their name.

Ben

Spiderman

Or White Ranger

Papayaman1000

Fun fact: the most common dialect in the world is High School Spanish, followed by English and regular Spanish.

Ben

2:06 AM

(as in MMPR. The real White Ranger)

Papayaman1000

@Ben MMPR is the only real Power Rangers.

daze413

@Papayaman1000 huh. Always thought Japan had it together.

Ben

@Papayaman1000 goes to show how much I know about about language. is the difference just because it's taught in High school like a "beginner" language?

@Papayaman1000 Exactly

Papayaman1000

@Ben I don't think there's a high school in the continental US that doesn't teach at least basic Spanish. It's the foreign language class.

Shalvenay

besides, Spanish has the Old World and New World dialects anyhow

at a minimum

Ben

2:09 AM

Wow

Papayaman1000

Followed by French, then German, then really niche non-romantic and non-germanic ones like Japanese and ASL.

Shalvenay

I want to listen to a Spaniard and a Mexican trying to talk to each other in Spanish...

it'd be worse than a California valley girl trying to talk to someone from the far reaches of Scotland in English

Ben

Well, either way, no matter how well you do speak it, if you can speak more than one language (and I mean, like hold a conversation, not just count to 10) that's impressive

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay I've seen it once. Couldn't understand most of it, but eventually they both kinda muttered "your Spanish is s__t" under their breaths and walked away angrily

@Ben Hey, sometimes counting is the hardest part. Languages like German, Japanese, and ASL all have this weird number structure where you go from biggest to smallest one digit at a time.

Ben

@Papayaman1000 True, but once you do learn it, it's sort of rhythmic.

nitsua60

2:13 AM

@Shalvenay I had a class once with kids who were Australian, Scottish, and Croatian. All had grown up speaking English as their first language. When the three of them would chat the rest of us would just sit there, wondering what language they-all were speaking.

Shalvenay

sadly, I took two years of French in high school but I can't even remember how to count to 10

nitsua60

"English" was their answer.

Papayaman1000

@Ben We sorta do the same thing in English but never to the same extent

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 and the Queen's English at that!

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 To be fair, whenever my family asks me about my job, they have the same reaction.

Shalvenay

2:14 AM

@Papayaman1000 hahaha, I forget -- what do you do for a living?

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 "English"?

(not sure I'm following)

Ben

"I English. It pays well. Nice perks"

Papayaman1000

Two most common responses to defragging after work:
"Yeah, I had to rename the func in like seventeen different files across the entire freakin repo"
> Cue response A:
"Uh, could you say that in English, sweetie?"
> Cue response B:
"Explain it like I'm five."

To be fair, when I started in development and people reminded me "don't forget to refactor your q&a script for maximum optimization whenever you push a commit", I was totally lost

Shalvenay

@Papayaman1000 it's worse for me

BESW

@Papayaman1000 Response C: "You don't even have a batch grep feature to automate that?"

Ben

2:18 AM

@BESW OMG YOU KNOW MAGIC TOO???

Shalvenay

because not only do I have to get over the barrier of explaining the dev side to non-devs, I have to get over the barrier of explaining the app domain in question to those who have no familiarity with it

BESW

(Disclaimer: everything I know about batch and grep I learned in Adobe programs.)

Shalvenay

and it's a domain that has oh, 150+ years of jargon associated with it, pretty much none of which makes sense to someone who isn't already at least a foamer if not involved with the industry somewhere close to the operations side

BESW

Totally unrelated: is it just me or would Clink be a great system to hack for a hopeless zombie survival game?

Ben

I just lean into it. It makes me sound more intelligent

People stare in wonder

They think i'm like, developing some kind of robot AI.

Papayaman1000

2:20 AM

"What's refactor"
"Build it again but better."
"What's q&a"
"Automated testing."
"What's a script"
"The thing you must be copy-pasting off of this forum"
"What's optimization"
"Making something do good but gooder"
"What's a push"
"When you send something with git"
"What's git"
"Version control"
"What's that"
"Something you should be doing"
"What's a commit"
"The next version of your work"
"Why is there so much vocabulary on top of the literal languages I already had to learn"
"Why is there a different name for every print function"

Ben

really all I'm doing is spell check

BESW

@Ben This is one reason I give to my students for learning keyboard shortcuts: it makes your client/employer think you're operating at a much higher level.

Papayaman1000

Twenty years ago, all dev speak cued the response "OMG r u HACKZORS?!?!?!".
Now, it's "Whoa are you making an evil robot or something"

I'm not sure which I prefer.

Ben

@BESW Fun fact, (Windows) CTRL+SHIFT+N creates new folder in Explorer

Taught that to the first guy I interened with. He was impressed :D

Papayaman1000

#2: "Now let me teach you the three most useful shortcuts for any student"
"Which ones, Mr Dr Prof?"
"Control, plus any key to the right of leftshift"

BESW

2:22 AM

I have an easel pad with a List of Shortcuts You Can Use in Almost Any Windows Program (and Translations into Mac).

Ben

@Papayaman1000 because I live on Sarcasm, I'd likely prefer the latter

BESW

If you learn one shortcut, make it Undo. If you learn three, make them Undo, Copy, and Paste. After that it's buffet-style.

Papayaman1000

@Ben Sarcasm? You mean the Python alias for "developer.antiSocial.sustenance"?

Ben

@Papayaman1000 Line of work does have some input into that, but yes

Shalvenay

@BESW how do you deal with hopping between work environments on a frequent basis then? (let me put it this way: I use all three of CLion, Eclipse, and Visual Studio at work -- I also bounce back and forth between Linux and WIndows environments on a regular basis, and use different programmer's editors at different times too)

Papayaman1000

2:24 AM

@Ben No, because everyone has to do General Studies in college

Shalvenay

(gedit, Vim, Geany...)

Ben

@Papayaman1000 No, I mean System.Output.AutoResponse

Papayaman1000

@Ben I... oh.

nitsua60

Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim

David Robinson on May 23, 2017

This morning, a popular Stack Overflow question hit a major milestone:

You’re not alone, jclancy. In the five years since this question was asked, there have been over a million other developers who got stuck in Vim and couldn’t escape without a bit of help. Indeed, the difficulty of quitting the Vim editor is a common joke among developers.

I’ve been told by experienced Vim users that this reputation is unfair, and I’m sure they’re right (even I’ve gotten the hang of it in the last few years). I think there are two reasons it’s easy to forget how to exi …

Ben

@BESW Actually, Yes

Papayaman1000

2:25 AM

[Note to self: Make an email bot that puts that as a response to any junior dev asking if [codebock] is the proper keyword.]

@BESW Except for 4 and 5: CTRL+X and CTRL+A.

Shalvenay

@BESW because my environment-hopping traits are the biggest barrier I have to learning the keyboard shortcuts in-depth for any one given thing

Ben

And CTRL+Y

Papayaman1000

6: "Just never let go of CTRL unless you're actively typing. Even when using the arrow keys to move the caret. It makes you go across entire words."

Ben

Cos sometimes you CTRL+Z one too many times

Shalvenay

and then you go and try to Ctrl-C in gnome-terminal

when you want to copy

and get the fail whale of SIGINT'ing what you were doing instead

Ben

2:27 AM

IT BEGINS

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay The hardest day in my life as a computer geek was using Linux and trying to CTRL+ZYXCV my way through the basic commands.

Shalvenay

(its worse in Windows console boxes, even)

Ben

The mentally scarred crazy person that barks and coos as a form of language just spoke.

(In my game)

Papayaman1000

The best shirt for a sysadmin to own? xkcd's Linux Cheat Shirt. Also included with this month's issue of MagPi.

...I wish MagPi had something other than the Pi0.

BESW

@Shalvenay Many shortcuts are "universal" across systems/programs. You have a wider spread than I do, so it may be less true for you.

nitsua60

2:30 AM

@Papayaman1000 I was given a laptop once (by my employer, on day one) which lacked a right CTRL key. Within minutes I reg-hacked it into existence. The next day, when I'd screwed something up and had to go to IT and they kept misfiring while trying to type, I explained what I'd done to the help-desk guy. He couldn't wrap his head around it, but the sysadmin overheard and became my new best friend =)

Papayaman1000

I also wish Pi still made the Pi0 instead of dropping it for the Pi 0 W, because as someone who doesn't own terribly many MiniHDMIs, the ability to connect it via ethernet and just SSH immediately is much more useful than wifi.

BESW

But like, switching between Mac and Windows is mostly trivial because it's the same keys just switching between CTRL and CMD.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Hold on a sec

There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN.

Ben

Let the mind games begin,,,

BESW

(But Mac still uses SHIFT-CMD-Z for undo, and CMD-Q for quit, except in MSO For Mac programs where undo is CMD-Y.)

Papayaman1000

2:32 AM

@BESW Except for those obnoxious things where CTRL is still necessary on a Mac

BESW

It's the program-specific commands I have trouble with, and only remember ones I use VERY frequently.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, that's exactly the problem. Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V aren't even a sure thing for me even in apps that say they support them -- sometimes X11 style copypasta is the better bet. Never mind having to deal with vim and nano, as well as the shortcuts people expect you to learn in your IDE of choice...

BESW

@Shalvenay So, my solution: sticky notes or your functional equivalent.

Be a cyborg, it's why evolution overclocked our brains.

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 Oh, gosh... emacs keybinds. As much as I liked a lot about emacs as an environment, that's one thing I don't miss about daily programming.

Shalvenay

@BESW heh :P I tend to be pretty leery of sticky noting my work environs up myself -- I have a messy enough desk as it is

BESW

2:33 AM

If your onboard capacity can't hold it all, use external tech like a sticky note to augment your memory.

We invented writing for this.

Shalvenay

its more that I just don't think of those sorts of quick-access functions much to begin with

because not all IDEs do them in the same way

BESW

A printed-out sheet might help remind you.

Papayaman1000

@BESW I need these two as a single post so I can star that.

I'm pretty sure that's 90% of why DMs have screens anymore.

Digital or otherwise.

BESW

But in my experience, there's a fine line between shortcuts that increase efficiency and shortcuts that overcomplicate the brain's workflow.

I have clients who are much faster and more comfortable doing everything clicky-style.

Ben

@BESW Ugh

Shalvenay

2:36 AM

@Papayaman1000 yeah -- I'm notable for basically being totally screenless as a DM

BESW

So there's no point in forcing their brains to take a path with more resistance just because theoretically it'll be more efficient; for them, it's not.

Ben

I work with electricians and mine-site engineers

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay I've noticed that. I kinda prefer the immersion that a somewhat-secretive DM provides.

Also, can I please just note that @Shalvenay and I seem to have the exact same career paths and interests. It's kinda creepy.

Ben

"Go to 'File' [wait 10 minutes] now 'open'... Down... Down.... there... no up... 1 more..."

Papayaman1000

"So what do you do as a job"
"Software dev"
"What's your hobbies"
"Electrical engineering, worldbuilding, RPGs"

Shalvenay

2:38 AM

@Papayaman1000 I have an expectancy that players figure things like ACs, DCs, and the like out anyway, so it allows me to have players make some of the rolls I'd otherwise be making (like saves)

Ben

Ok, @BESW I'm getting up to the Friend vs Friend fight

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay OOC stuff and blatantly saying "the [ENEMY] has [X] hitpoints remaining out of [Y]" are two entirely different things

BESW

I've tried using GM screens, but I prefer references that don't put up physical barriers.

Papayaman1000

Like if you really want them to have easy access then link your encounter notes or give them index cards or something

But that's just my personal style so take it with a grain of salt

Shalvenay

@Papayaman1000 do you have "multi-modal transportation geekery", "chemical safety", and/or "architectural engineering/building-systems-engineering" on that list as well?

Papayaman1000

2:42 AM

Anyways it's getting late and my battery is dying

BESW

Sep 20 '16 at 13:12, by BESW

Yeeeah. With the exception of a few systems like A Penny For My Thoughts, I'm not a big fan of immersion as a priority play goal. It tends to sacrifice too many other valuable elements.

May 13 '16 at 20:53, by BESW

@nitsua60 I think I simply discovered that Chasing the Spectre of Immersion isn't actually very fun for me or the people I've played with. Engagement, suspension of disbelief, and the sense of a living world, can be found through other methods that are less easily burst or shattered.

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay Yes, ohgodyes, and CAD was my favorite class in High School.

Ben

@BESW I'm going to go with the suggestion you made - convinced the friend that she is mind controlled

I need some tips/pointers on how to manage this

daze413

@Papayaman1000 That is creepy

Papayaman1000

but like I said need sleep and milliampere hours, so g'night y'all

daze413

2:43 AM

night!

Ben

@Papayaman1000 Nighty night

daze413

> Lie to your players

Ben

@daze413 Can you elaborate?

Shalvenay

@daze413 -- mind telling me what a West Marches campaign is btw? I think I have a vague idea, but I want to make sure for future reference :)

daze413

@Ben sorry, that came off as a bad joke. I don't even know what you mean about mind controlling a friend

BESW

2:47 AM

8

A: Is it possible to run a simulationist sandbox game?

While I haven't run a game like what you're asking, I do believe that the "West Marches" experiment is what you are looking for. In short, this is a sandbox campaign that draws inspiration from GTA but takes off the missions. It was run in D&D 3.5, which is quite close to Pathfinder. The project...

Ben

@daze413 Ah ok

Shalvenay

@BESW so, basically, a sortie driven campaign in a frontier area where the PCs are the only adventurers around

Ben

Well the situation is that the BBEG is a mind-controller. So @BESW suggested a twist. Instead of actually mind-controlling the friend, play it so that he is convinced that the player is mind-controlled.

daze413

@Shalvenay This is a standard West Marches campaign. I've modified mine in that it doesn't apply with #3 in the list.

Shalvenay

@daze413 ah.

nitsua60

2:50 AM

@Shalvenay I don't know about the second part. IME some campaigns that have been described as "West Marches" have multiple PC parties, and even NPC adventuring parties. Things'll change between sessions, partly because of the actions of other groups.

BESW

@daze413 English Is Weird: "doesn't apply ~~with~~ #3" or "doesn't ~~apply~~ comply with #3," but not "doesn't apply with #3."

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ah

yeah -- I've seen a few approaches to the sandbox-TTRPG type of thing myself

daze413

but #1 and #2 are true- adventurers are an irregular pool of PCs that must begin and end the session in town. There is a quest-giver (the noble), there is an overarching plot (the Darkest Dungeon) so it's less sand-boxy (explore until we find adventure) and more branching adventure, as defined by theangrygm

@BESW ahhh.. doesn't comply with #3 :)

Shalvenay

yeah -- true sandbox play in the "explore until we find adventure" sense requires an awful lot of random-encounter-type-rolls, which doesn't play well with time constraints

nitsua60

@Shalvenay According to my half-read Peterson account of Greyhawk, that's exactly why Gygax had that line about "you can't call it a campaign if you're not keeping strict time records" in the 1e DMG (IIRC).

BESW

2:54 AM

One of the keys of a WM campaign is that each hex has an adventure in it.

daze413

The PCs will not be the only adventurers, but they will be the really good ones- the noble's "favorites"

Ben

1 hour ago, by Ben

BESW

It's a pre-designed environment which only responds to the players diegetically, but it's been designed such that non-diegetic response isn't necessary for regularly running into adventures.

nitsua60

@Ben nice callback =)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah -- the problem with time recording in a campaign is getting the clock synched with the ebb and flow of events if you will -- the narrative-time stretches and compresses dramatically

Ben

2:59 AM

@nitsua60 Ty lol

daze413

3:09 AM

Instead of the standard hex-crawl, which I personally don't enjoy, the players can choose to do things that need to be done in one of the four locations, to be determined by the noble- and the actions of either the other parties or the results of their own actions in the previous adventure.

for example, previously, my RL party played double agent against the cult leader and found out where he hid an important artifact, as well as how to disarm the trap that was set. For the next adventure, the quest for that area would be to go retrieve it (not simple, as it is deep in the Ruins of the old manor)

BESW

3:24 AM

@Ben I worked with a teen study group a year or so ago, and only one of them knew the word acquiesce--because she'd figured it out from context in that film.

Ben

@BESW Guilty. And I learned how to ensure I was "Beautiful" correctly from Bruce Almighty

BESW

3:37 AM

Bah. I finally tracked down my original session notes for SG-13, and I think I can integrate them into what we've already done.

(My notes from nine years ago show a very different focus than I have now...)

Ben

@BESW do you remember when you pointed out that RP lets you get away with saying anything?

BESW

Not specifically, no.

Ben

I think it was you i was talking to about it. "The Orc insults the goblin's mother, and the goblin laughs and agrees"

BESW

Oh. That was about the benefits and drawbacks of different levels of "zoom" on the narrative.

Started here.

Ben

Yes. That's the one

BESW

3:48 AM

So I'm not sure what you mean by "RP lets you get away with saying anything."

Ben

That was a very general statement.

But in this situation, I am really screwing with her mind.

It's part of the adventure, but it's getting rough

I have told her that she can stop when she wants

BESW

X-card. O-card.

Ben

If this was anything but RP, I would likely be considered a terrible person.

BESW

And also stepping back the narrative to a wider "zoom" with third-person descriptions.

Ben

That might be a good idea

Ben

4:32 AM

Well... it seems I'll be setting some memories for this fight. Definitely

trogdor

@BESW I would sorta ask the opposite question really "why do you need the O card when you have the X? isn't not tapping the X about as good as tapping the O?"

it just seems to me like "I want more of that next time" could technically wait till after the session

whereas "please stop this one thing" seems like it obviously can't sit around waiting till the session is over

markovchain

7:15 AM

@doppelgreener Thank you

BESW

8:27 AM

Today's Reminder that Your Fantasy Poultry is Not Rainbow-Colored.

The Ocellated Turkey and its awesome iridescent feathers... https://t.co/tKObObieWf

Tweeted by planetepics on June 16, 2017 at 3:13 AM

BESW

8:40 AM

I'm statting up Zat'nik'tels in Fate, and trying to figure how to mechanise "one shot unconscious, two shot dead, three shot vaporised" in a Fately way.

I'm thinking "if you take a physical consequence from a zat gun, it is unconsciousness," and let the rest play out narratively.

nwp

No chance to get hit in the arm or armor and stay up?

Zachiel

9:32 AM

So I finally decided that my demiplane-incarnation NPC, since the players freed him from this powerful demon, offered them to go back to their world by a newly created portal (instead of forcing them to walk 12 hours across a desert again) - and a welcome party of fire giants was waiting on the other side (for story reasons, the new portal still opened in the same point of the material plane as the previous one).
This almost became a TPK. This is what happens when both the defender and the leader are out of healing surges, and the strikers' players don't think using your action point and en…

daze413

What ever happened to the subtle dice art, indicating a question has already accepted an answer? :o It looks nice in this post!

@Zachiel probably just poor situational awareness?

Zachiel

@daze413 My situational awareness was low. They only had 2 encounters (well, 3 but one was overwhelmingly easy) that day, but they lost lots of surges in a skill challenge, plus the leader getting to level 16 means they consume surges faster now.

And some enemy powers in one of the encounters drained surges.

Basically they were (finally!) in that moment where they realized they should have tried playing more cautiously because surges can end.

Add to that that they wasted the first round trying to parlay with angry, void-staring fire giants just because one of them was huge and they started combat thinking there was no way out.
They were unsynchronized (there were platforms connected by narrow bridges and enemies could be pushed off but could climb back, an enemy got pushed down and nobody tried to get past the choke point) and planned very poorly (there was an enemy with limited range who couldn't step on the thin bridges, and players kept moving combat in its range.)

doppelgreener

12:37 PM

@daze413 about a year ago, sites had their designs altered and standardized slightly to make it easier to maintain features across the network. That must have been one of the casualties.

@nwp nope, not if you get hit. The defensive strategy against a Zat gun is "don't get hit in the first place".

@BESW That makes sense. I'd give them a hardware stunt that is basically just this: "Zat'nik'tel: one shot unconscious, two shots dead, three shots vaporised." However just the name "Zat gun" will be fine as shorthand, we know how they work.

Nzall

3:07 PM

So quick question: does the lore description in the PHB next to race and class descriptions have any rule consequence? Back when I first tried 4.0 with my brother and tried to make a character, we used that blurb to interpret whether we could have a certain race/class combo, but I'm not sure if that was necessary

like, I wanted to make a dragonborn paladin, and he checked that lore and it said that some dragonborn have chosen the path of paladin, so he said it was allowed

but shouldn't such restriction be clearly listed, instead of needing to be interpreted from a lore snippet?

Shalvenay

3:43 PM

@Nzall what edition of D&D?

nitsua60

[does his best What About Bob? impression] I'm on a plane!

@Nzall If you're talking 5e, there are no race/class/alignment/background combination restrictions in the rules.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 which is something I'm extremely grateful for

doppelgreener

4:43 PM

@Nzall in D&D 4e, flavor text was explicitly something you could ignore and change. They were expressly not mechanical, they acted as baseline flavour so you had something to work with unless/until you wanted to do something different.