TRPG General Chat

it's not a huge deal. when do you think you'll be able to get back into the swing of things, or do you want your char to dart out the main exit and get replaced by somebody else?

Ben

@Adeptus Oh hey! you found Tom! Tom used to live with us. He used to eat all the Mynah birds, but since he left we've been re-inhabited.

@Shalvenay Yeah I'd say that the walls envelope him as he is summoned from the mortal plane haha

Sorry. I don't see myself being able to really do much more than what I already have on my plate at the moment

Shalvenay

@Ben :D

Ben

Much like Kaldor Draigo (not to be mistaken for Kahl Drogo) Tobrinn's soul floats about, beyond the material plane, until such a time as he is needed once more, to help defend against the evils of the world.

Shalvenay

haha

Ben

2:18 AM

@daze413 maybe we can write that into the story - something about Toby getting trapped in Hades

lol

Ben

2:30 AM

But, @Shalv if you want, I need a list of encounters for my game - I have 2 combat encounters, a boss encounter, and a puzzle. I need maybe 3 or 4 more encounters

I was thinking perhaps a spell trap - an inscription on the floor that acts like a pressure plate and shoots a low-level fireball at the party (perhaps a dex save)

Shalvenay

@Ben ah. a trap or two would spice things up -- there's also the party having to use their words :P

Ben

The setting is a cathedral/catacombs

Shalvenay

is it active? abandoned completely? populated by undead?

Ben

@Shalvenay The evil powers of hell have taken hold in the place, causing the dead to rise and other such foul creatures to roam the tunnels

Shalvenay

ah

I'd have a trap or two in there, yes

also: maybe a ghost for a diplomatic encounter?

Ben

2:45 AM

Yeah definitely. Unfortunately though it'd have to be themed appropriately. Perhaps a cave in/an old grate slamming closed cutting the party off/splitting the party (to obviously be reunited shortly after)

@Shalvenay Actually that could work...

Shalvenay

@Ben an old portcullis would be good

Ben

The evil king's soul still wanders the place, seeking some kind of assistance...

Shalvenay

@Ben I was actually thinking maybe the ghost of someone who was felled trying to reclaim the place from the forces of evil?

Ben

@Shalvenay Well it'd be along the same lines. The main boss in the area is "The Skeleton King". In this case, maybe the party has to try and convince her that they are there to cleanse the place, and she can give them some kind of key to the boss' chamber.

Shalvenay

@Ben xD

anyone have a suggestion as to what to use for D&D 5e character sheets for someone on an iPad? needs to be something they can export and send to me one way or another via Discord

Ben

2:52 AM

I did have another plan as well - since this is a "mega-dungeon" by design, I have no intention of forcing the party to stay in the dungeon the entire time - in fact I rely on them returning to town for one reason or another. The way I was going to do this was have an "angel" come in and open portals for the party to return to town (rest/restock, upgrade weaponry etc)

@Shalvenay Can't you use fillable pdf's?

Miniman

@Shalvenay Pdfs seems like the way to go to me as well.

Ben

Is there a way to "disarm" spells? Similar to traps?

(in 5e)

Shalvenay

@Ben the fillable PDFs WIzards provides won't work since he can't unpack the .zip they're in on an ipad

Ben

@Shalvenay Unapck them first then send them out?

Shalvenay

@Ben ah. I could send him the individual PDFs via Discord...

Ben

2:58 AM

That's easy enough :)

Shalvenay

ah, well, just the one PDF even

found a version with all three pages in the one PDF

Ben

trogdor

Classic

I like Geek better personally,... Nerd just soundsore derogatory for some reason

But I know they were both used that way

Ben

Yeah. "Geek" seems to have lost its derogatory...ness

trogdor

3:14 AM

That is want it seems like to me too

If someone wants to call themselves a nerd they can but I ain't gonna call someone else that

And for myself I would rather say I am a geek

Yuuki

@Ben What if I have electroweak opinions on the distinction between geeks and nerds?

trogdor

Hold on a second it's yet again time for one of spell checks regular beatings

Ben

Honestly, I'd say I'm personally more of a nerd. Because the way I see it, the difference is that a geek finds more passion in the lore, the rules, and the structure of "the thing" whereas a nerd might not be overly involved in the underlying structure, just in "it", itself.

Once again, this is not about Pennywise

trogdor

To me the only actual distinction is intent

Miniman

@Ben Dispel them?

Ben

3:19 AM

For example, I'm m ore interested in just Playing D&D than I am in understanding the rules and universe. Of course, the rules do play a part in that, but it's only relevant to me in so far as what I can and can't do

trogdor

You could use the words interchangeably and I would be mostly un-upset about it

Ben

@Miniman Yeah. I suppose disarming and dispelling aren't overly involved mechanics (roll to disarm/dispel)

Miniman

@Ben I mean, I'm not willing to touch the traps issue with a ten-foot pole, but there's literally a spell called Dispel Magic that ends spells.

Ben

@Miniman I did not think of that

Which class/level is that?

Miniman

@Ben 3rd-level spell, available to most (every?) spellcasting class.

Ben

3:23 AM

@Miniman Ah. Hmm.

Miniman

@Ben No way. This is too funny.

Dispel Magic is on every class's spell list...

except Ranger.

Times like this I wish we had emotes so I could express how hilarious that is to me.

@nitsua60 Pinging you to look at the above because LOLFIGSL

Shalvenay

@Yuuki :D

Ben

Ok. So the encounter list goes:
1. Zombie horde (incredibly low level swarm - basically wade through to the "zombie boss"

nitsua60

@besw apropos of our recent DW conversation, a hack that might have helped me

@Miniman oh, dear me

BESW

@nitsua60 That seems nice!

It's weird because almost the exact same "rules say there should be a consequence here" thing comes up in Fate a lot and I rarely have a similar problem with coming up with a consequence there.

nitsua60

3:37 AM

I don't know that I had trouble coming up with consequences, but perhaps coming up with consequences that fit well.

Ben

1. Zombie horde (incredibly low level swarm - basically wade through to the "zombie boss"
2. Trap #1
3. Diplomatic encounter #1
4. Skeleton Fight #1
5. Diplomatic encounter #2
6. Skeleton Fight #2
7. Trap #2
8. Boss fight
9. Descend to the next level

BESW

I suspect part of it was that Fate gives more cues on whether a consequence should be hard or soft, while still letting the narrative carry as needed.

nitsua60

@BESW You also have a lot more experience playing in systems with that sort of expectation than your GM did in running them =D

trogdor

Yeah I was going to say that Fate had , at least in my opinion, better rules for guiding how that works out

BESW

@nitsua60 Yeah, but I'm also comparing my early days in Fate with my attempts at running a PbtA game (Monster of the Week).

Ben

3:43 AM

My ideas for the "traps" would be the magic trap, and possibly the door slamming shut/cave in splitting the party (temporarily), and the diplomatic encounters would be the ghost/angel.

Does that look like an even balance?

trogdor

The monster of the week game we had was much more confusing than I remember the early days of fate for us being

nitsua60

@trogdor Well, you did have to fight a new monster every week.

=)

Magician

Hmmm. At the same time, PbtA offers a list of moves you can make as a consequence, you don't just pull them out of your head.

trogdor

@nitsua60 you will pay for this pun sheepy XD

Lol

Ben

Speaking of monsters, I was thinking we could probably have a "running champion" in King of Monsters.

cc @BESW

trogdor

3:48 AM

A game to see who wins so we can force them to run forever?

:P

Magician

KM: Legacy. New monsters inherit traits from the champion

"Oh, how sweet, it's got it's parent's lazer eyes."

Ben

@BESW you should patent this immediately. You could make a dime off this haha

trogdor

But seriously at least the way monster of the week handled explaining how the system worked,... Really sucked for new entry in the game

nitsua60

@Magician this one--this one's good.

Ben

Roll d3 to pick which table the new monster inherits from

trogdor

3:51 AM

Play style buy in is at least apparently important and the game just did not care to explain that

Magician

I'm finally running an AW game, and 2 sessions in the PCs have scattered. Character-driven game with snowballing moves = herding cats. Not sure how to bring them back together.

BESW

Open a can of tuna?

Magician

Well, yeah, a shared goal would be nice :P

trogdor

Lol "and then the cats did battle and scattered before the might of the victor"

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

4:03 AM

@Shalvenay hiya

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

nitsua60

Tomorrow is a big day. For the first time in a decade my wife and I both have the day off of work and all three kids are off to school.

We're going grocery shopping. Together.

Ben

@nitsua60 Dude. Go get a coffee.

trogdor

@nitsua60 jeez really you have so little time normally that you can't do that? :(

Ben

It's a big day! Splurge! Spoil yourselves!

trogdor

4:10 AM

I hope you enjoy it a lot then

nitsua60

@Ben Well, it is the morning of the day that a dozen people arrive at our house for two days....

trogdor

Yeah thanks not for Australia giving

nitsua60

@trogdor It's not so much that we don't have time, or even have time together, it's just that it rarely lines up terribly well: many-hour stretch, during waking hours....

trogdor

XD

Ah

Fair enough

Ben

Honestly, I'd say bugger 'em. They can wait an extra half an hour :)

trogdor

4:12 AM

That would be soooo rude XD

Ben

Not to be rude of course. But they're adults. They can learn to be patient :P

nitsua60

@trogdor I thought they-all would be giving thanks for the prevalence of crocodile attacks being 1/12 as high as their MP thought?

Ben

(I'm assuming they are at least)

nitsua60

@Ben No, I'm saying that it's a day we have to do a lot of house-prep, so being able to grocery-shop together rather than pragmatically dividing chores is a treat.

@Ben About half and half.

Ben

OH right... Thanksgiving!

trogdor

4:14 AM

@nitsua60 lol

Ben

@trogdor We call it "Friday"

trogdor

I know XD

That is why we call it thanks for not Australia giving

:P

Ben

I completely missed that the first time haha

trogdor

Ah

Ben

OMG STOP EVERYTHING.

How did I miss that there was a Diablo 1 remastered dungeon event every year??

trogdor

4:18 AM

I am mostly thankful for several days off in a row

Ben

diablo.wikia.com/wiki/The_Darkening_of_Tristram

trogdor

Well that is Blizz for you

They like their events

Ben

Apparently it's annual, so I can still lay it. I would have been heartbroken if I'd missed it

daze413

4:51 AM

@Ben anything is possible in Hades :)

Ben

Play*

Ok... question for the room - has anyone read any books by Jonathon Kellerman

trogdor

Noperino

Just from a quick Google they seem to mostly be a genre that I lack interest in

Miniman

Nope here

Ben

I have an old friend that I'm meeting up with - haven't seen her in years, and I wanted to get her a present.

Was going to get her one of the favourites from the series, and a new one. But, like you fellers, I have a complete lack of interest in that genre lol

Erics

5:07 AM

@SPavel incrementing brightness of HSB won't give an apparent smooth progression, because the human eye has different sensitivities to different hues. Saw a really good article on this recently, alas faded from browser history :-(

vanseodesign.com/web-design/color-luminance

BESW

5:44 AM

Today's warm up sketch. Can someone please hire me to draw frogs? 🐸⚔️

Tweeted by Hannah_illo on November 21, 2017 at 10:25 PM

Erics

6:53 AM

Hmm .. should I write up the question for "Our GM is phoning in half-assed responses and when pressed uses the excuse of 10 hour work days, baby at home etc. What's a kind way to say he needs to stop asking for extra work from us players and take a goddam break?" =)

Ben

7:07 AM

@BESW Tis Glenn

CALLING ALL 5e GAMERS

I need your assistance

Miniman

Hmmm?

Ben

I need 4 level 1 characters - A fighter (sword and shield); Paladin (Mace and shield), Sorcerer (Wild magic); and Ranger (Bow)

All human, too

Miniman

Simple enough - which bit did you need help with?

Ben

@Miniman Creating them... Lol

I have a game on in half an hour, and I need to get home first

Miniman

Oh, I see.

Do you want them optimised at all?

Also, variant humans or normal?

Ben

7:16 AM

Optimised would be good, and sure, let's go variant

Miniman

Optimised + wild magic...this is a true challenge.

Ben

Dungeon-delving is the game, so any feats you find useful for that (just don't make them all dungeon delvers lol)

Miniman

@Ben Oh yeah, what's the platform for the game?

Ben

5e?

Miniman

No I mean like Roll20 or anything like that?

Ben

7:19 AM

@Miniman Oh, no. Just regular 5e

Erics

So just the one healer - paladin?

Ben

@Erics For now

I have 2 other classes in the ranks - a Necromancer and a Monk

The Necromancer is a bit of a homebrew class (obviously), basing it off the Wizard and limiting the spells they have access to. But this first session the class will be next to useless, because they'll be fighting against undead

Miniman

Ok, the sorc is done.

Ben

Fell free to brag about your optimised wild magic sorcerer :P

Miniman

About the only real decision to make is being stuck using mage armor every day or taking lightly armored - I went with the former, but I don't feel good about it.

Ben

7:32 AM

@Miniman Well, to aid your decision, I will be throwing gear at them, with enchantments (+1, generally)

Miniman

@Ben Then I guess I'll reverse that decision XD

@Ben Good favored enemy choice for the ranger?

BESW

When making pre-made characters for others I usually go with whatever choices require less bookkeeping.

Miniman

Also, good favored terrain?

Ben

@Miniman Emm...

Probably demons

@Miniman They will be underground

BESW

...when making characters for myself I sometimes do the same. (This is one of the best reasons to take a 3.5 Vow of Poverty.)

Miniman

7:39 AM

@Ben Underdark, or just caves?

Ben

Just caves. It's a cathedral basement that works it's way down into the caves beneath

@BESW Yeah. These characters are pretty much going to be preset from level 1 to 6.

BESW

In 4e, my go-to pre-made PC was the Slayer. Those things were awesome.

reminded how rad it is that pterosaurs have only gotten weirder and weirder with each new reconstruction 🖤 found at http://bluerhinostudio.tumblr.com via @korybing

Tweeted by TiffanyTurrill on November 21, 2017 at 4:00 AM

Ben

@BESW aren't all PCs premade in 4e?

BESW

Ben

Lol. The character creation tree pretty much pre-determines everything about your character as soon as you choose a class

BESW

7:44 AM

One of the things my group liked best about 4e was that chargen was all tinkertoys--hundreds of tiny options to recombine into an infinite array of wonder.

Nooo.

Miniman

Ranger is done.

Ben

Hmm

trogdor

@Ben wait why would you think this?

that is not the case at all

Ben

To be fair I have never actually played 4e. My experience is various rants from a guy that has spent the better part of his entire life dedicated to the art of DMing in as many systems as he can find (Including Street Fighter, TMNT, and Mass Effect - the RPG)

BESW

I mean, dude. My group started out with a Fighter. Fighters, in theory, are supposed to be sticky: they stand next to enemies and make the enemies miserable for trying to leave or attack anyone else.

trogdor

7:47 AM

you have to choose all your powers, you have to choose all feats, you have to choose stats, skills, and equipment

BESW

But our Fighter instead specialized in tossing people as far away as possible and making them stay away.

trogdor

@BESW yes good example coming up XD

BESW

Instead of "You take -2 to hit anyone except me and I'll attack you if you try to leave and if I hit you don't get to leave anyway," he was "You take -2 to hit anyone except me and your speed is reduced to 10 feet and you're prone and you're 50 feet away from the action, and I did this because you tried to walk past me."

It was completely counter to the "intended" Fighter build for 4e, but still totally supported at all levels of play.

trogdor

it was pretty awesome

BESW

We had the ranger ("intended" to be massive single-target damage at a distance) who dealt no damage at all but rained down AoE debuffs.

trogdor

7:50 AM

nope not patting myself on the back at all :P

BESW

The hybrid of Shaman (intended to be ranged buffs/heals with a summoned melee companion) and Warlord (intended as a melee tank specialising in crowd control) who never made a single attack roll but instead gave all his actions to allies--even his opportunity attacks.

That one was hard to make work. It was one of the only builds which felt like we were bucking the system, though, and it was actively going against the default assumption of ALL 4e: that everyone should be attacking most rounds, even the healers.

trogdor

well, but even that

it was hard, and I could tell that no designer thought anyone would want it, but it was able to be made work

BESW

But yeah. Each class has at least three specialties to choose from out of the gate, often more choices within those, and you pick a weapon or implement which informs your style and capacity, and the powers you pick further inform your capacity and playstyle within the specialty.

trogdor

we never had to skip a step on that hybrid build

Miniman

@Ben Fighter's done, but I've got to take a break.

trogdor

7:56 AM

@BESW and the feats, that fighter was made the way he was almost totally off of feats

not even joking, yeah as many powers as possible had push or slide in em, but those feats were what made EVERY attack he had push or slide a ridiculous amount

BESW

Like, an infernal pact warlock does straight-up massive single-target damage, burning down enemies; a fey pact warlock manipulates and tricks her enemies, making them attack each other and inflicting mental damage; a star pact warlock specializes in debuffs, demoralizing enemies and raining starlit despair upon them. Each has a very unique playstyle and set of tactics that make them often feel like totally different classes.

And within that, for example, a star pact warlock could be totally different depending on whether they choose to focus on Charisma or Constitution as their primary stat.

And, yes, weapon/implement choice and feat support for that choice can completely change the way a character plays.

A polearm fighter and a sword fighter, even with all the same class choices, will be tactically different in significant ways.

trogdor

yep

this is true

BESW

Now, Essentials classes? Yeah, some of them are kinda one-note. One Slayer's gonna look a lot like another.

But they're supposed to be simpler and have fewer choices available.

trogdor

8:14 AM

yeah Slayer and other Essentials, as I understood them, were specifically there to give to people who didn't want to build stuff

people who just wanted to play with everyone else and not build and maintain a PC

I built and maintained at least 3 or 4 in-use PCs and loved it, but I also got perspective into how much goddang work that is

some people wouldn't like it, IE, at least again as far as I understand it, Essentials classes

Ben

@Miniman Cheers dude. Just got home, can you send them through? Discord or something?

Miniman

@Ben As soon as I'm back in front of my computer. Sorry, I'm picking my little sister up

Ben

No worries

Miniman

I should've thought of discord though, that's a bit of a facepalm

Also, in case you missed it, I haven't done the paladin

Ben

Yeah that's fine I can get by

Miniman

8:32 AM

I'm working on the paladin on my phone XD

BESW

Phoneadin!

Ben

Dedication

Phoneadin - the most portable and versatile of the holy order

Miniman

@Ben Boredom - her bus is running late

Ben

Lol

BESW

9:23 AM

why do all WiFi modems look like alien Invaders

Tweeted by ow on November 21, 2017 at 4:32 PM

doppelspooker

@BESW ... are they not?

BESW

@doppelspooker We may have to investigate. InSpectres? Monster of the Week? ...Great Ork Gods?

...or we could play as WiFi modem aliens in Roll For Shoes.

doppelspooker

9:41 AM

Any of those options work pretty great. Or WiFi router alien plot in Lasers & Feelings.

(real or imagined)

Ben

@doppelspooker I'm immediately imaging a cross-over of Alien Invaders crossed over with Snake, except the Invaders are Wifi Modems and Snake is an Ethernet cable

Imagining*** Geez... I cannot spell that word apparently

doppelspooker

9:58 AM

That sounds like it might be the easiest game ever if the aliens do their normal routine.

trogdor

10:10 AM

@BESW Great Ork Gods with alien WiFi modems is,... a strange thought

BESW

Yes. But we've already done Great Ork Gods with Santa.

eimyr

Can you hack the gods as deities of the internet?

god of connectivity, god of speed, god of premium membership...

trogdor

@BESW yeah but Santa fits just a little better I think

@eimyr not easily

doppelspooker

@eimyr that could be amusing for a great ork gods MMORPG setting. you're ~~gamers~~ orcs trying to accomplish stuff, but given your skill in the game is already guaranteed, it's only down to the quality of your connection and resources.

BESW

trogdor

10:14 AM

hacking that would necessitate changing some other stuff too

@BESW ok Maud settle down

eimyr

@doppelspooker better yet: you're trolls trying to ~~achieve something~~ ~~argue a point~~ amuse themselves on reddit and you have to avoid distracting memes, poor connection, keyboard failure, lack of doritos...

doppelspooker

@trogdor the humans have been giving the halflings strange spiked whatsits and noisy boxes of light, which the halflings are mesmerised by. clearly this is an illithid encroachment and it's melting their brains. it's doing bad stuff to halflings which is all well and good, but this could be a threat to ork-kind as well. these contraptions and/or demons must be purged. the halflings had better go as well; they're corrupted. then we can find the humans behind this and slay them as well.

trogdor

Orks don't care about brain melting

and since when are they more concerned with illithids than the simple pleasures of murdization?

doppelspooker

@trogdor well. that's a good question. (after all the halflings are sitting ducks like this...)

eimyr

@trogdor murdization is my new favourite word

trogdor

10:21 AM

lol

I will admit I spelled it slightly differently than I thought I had

but I will roll with it anyway

eimyr

murderization?

trogdor

yeah something like that

but I am fine with the creation of a very similar new silly word

eimyr

12:07 PM

folks

I need a nifty name for a skill that combines Knowledge (as in academics) and Resources (as in money or manpower you can access) in

BESW

@eimyr in...?

kviiri

@BESW In.

BESW

@eimyr Nestor?

Doyen, luminary?

"Scholarship" would be a really bad pun.

There's a "docent/ducent" pun in there somewhere, too.

I'm not sure if any of those are nifty, but most of them are definitely nerdy.

eimyr

12:44 PM

@BESW disregard the "in"

doppelspooker

12:56 PM

i am not sure if there is a thing that represents those two things

kviiri

A bit of context would help I guess.

doppelspooker

@kviiri (cc @eimyr) i agree; this sounds like a fate skill merger, and having some context -- especially, seeing the rest of the current skill landscape in this new skill list -- would help us better advise how to merge them, or how to not (and instead to merge them differently)

1218

A: Why does man print "gimme gimme gimme" at 00:30?

Dear @colmmacuait, I think that if you type "man" at 0001 hours it should print "gimme gimme gimme". #abba @marnanel - 3 November 2011 er, that was my fault, I suggested it. Sorry. Pretty much the whole story is in the commit. The maintainer of man is a good friend of mine, and one day...

this question hit >1000 score in only a day and a half :D

eimyr

@doppelspooker eh.. yes, it is.

Athletics (Athletics, Physique)
Combat (fight, Shoot)
Larceny (burglary, stealth)
Contacts (contacts)
Manipulate (deceive, provoke)
Rapport (rapport, empathy)
Will (will)
Investigate (investigate)
Awareness (notice)
knowledge (lore)
Technology (craft, drive)
Occult

Arguably money isn't a big thing in this game, but I'm willing to try and see whether I can extrapolate a large bank account to one of these, especially one that isn't already a merger

kviiri

1:12 PM

A detective story with a dark fantasy/horror element?

doppelspooker

@eimyr i love that merger into Larceny :D

eimyr

I'm also willing to rename larceny to Dexterity or something like this to lighten the load on Athletics somehow

@doppelspooker Thanks! I love Manipulation/Rapport duo, but it wasn't my invention

@kviiri Mage Ascension. Close enough to what you said.

kviiri

Would combining money, manpower and such into "Contacts" make sense?

eimyr

@kviiri I think manpower goes into contacts withotu question

but I think having material wealth in the game is important to warrant some skill

I could say Resources (contacts, resources)

yeah, good suggestion

doppelspooker

i think if knowledge isn't too important on its own, merge knowledge & investigate

eimyr

1:25 PM

that's what I'm thinking too

or even sequester investigate unde Will

So, my problem is that if I merge Knowledge and Will into, say, Thinks(tm) , why wouldn't I merge Investigate and Awareness? But then I'm creating a god-stat

I'm having trouble deciding how important Knowledge is on its own, the original game hugely overloads this skill in chargen (with Art, Academics, Cosmology, Esoterica, Research, Law, Medicine, Occult, Technology, Politics and Science, some of which I moved to Occult and some to Tech)

doppelspooker

often the answer about not merging something is, on its own, not creating a god stat

eimyr

to me Notice is already super-powerful, because it serves both as a kind of Alertness and (game term) Awareness - spotting supernatural at work

but I already have a god-stat, Athletics, which covers dodge, athletics, physique...

doppelspooker

@eimyr it was probably following along the lines of D&D, i'd imagine: "surely you can't just have knowledge. but in Fate, our aspects help tell us what we have knowledge in. as a druid of the deepland forests, knowledge of druidism is going to be pretty trivial -- i often won't even need to roll for it because it'll just be day-to-day for me -- but i couldn't justify having any knowledge about how spaceships get built. i could know stuff about the stars, though.

eimyr

@doppelspooker I think I'd like to do one more merger to free up space a bit for something like "operate"

but urrrgh, brain overload

doppelspooker

@eimyr i suggest not merging those; they're very different. having them separate also improves my expressiveness: it's fun having characters with some athletics but zero physique, or vice versa.

The Juggernaut (from the X-Men) is a good example of a character who maxed out Physique and left Athletics at 0.

eimyr

1:33 PM

so let;'s say I'll do that

what do you think I should merge?

I'm inclined to keep to 12 skills layout so that I can use +3, +2, +2, +1, +1, +1 and cover half

doppelspooker

@eimyr characters can leave skills out, or simulate skills via stunts. (One of my characters had zero Physique, but got to use Tooth & Claw in place of Physique when overcoming physical obstacles.)

@eimyr i'd instead start the triangle for a Skill system at +4, and let people make meaningful choices about which skills to leave out or leave at the bottom.

eimyr

@doppelspooker I expect players gravitate to having stunts related to awakened magick extra

doppelspooker

Also, question: will the players belong to a collective organisation of some kind which will could be said to have its own resources, knowledgebase, etc?

eimyr

@doppelspooker yeah, but that's what the fractal is for

doppelspooker

@eimyr in atomic robo and a couple of other systems, the Organisation gets a handful of skills representing what it enables in its members, and players get to use those skills, or add those skill scores to their own rolls.

eimyr

1:36 PM

@doppelspooker Isn't that exactly what I said?

doppelspooker

@eimyr no, you said "that's what the fractal is for", and i said "here's how your players can use it"

SPavel

Fractal players? Terrifying.

doppelspooker

@SPavel fate fractal. :)

eimyr

@doppelspooker well, yeah, sorry for the snark, I meant that I'd probs introduce "The Org" as a character, which gives skills or stunts or aspects etc.

doppelspooker

everything in fate is potentially a character

@eimyr yes, good. i'm not trying to be condescending or anything, i'm just pointing out solutions other games found -- i'm not going to assume you're familiar with a notion like "the org gets +2's and +3's, and players add those scores to their rolls in the right circumstance"

eimyr

1:39 PM

@doppelspooker I'm quite convinced to reduce the number of skills - that was my main objective, because of the cognitive overload of the extra I made and its narrative weight

doppelspooker

Having played in Atomic Robo, which gives players a lot of skills they can't ever all have at once, plus an org, I imagine it won't be too difficult -- I never had much issue in ARRPG.

eimyr

@doppelspooker ARRPG uses modes and only has 12 skills, as opposed to Core with 18

I think 11-12 is my magic number

doppelspooker

ARRPG has more than 12. [checks]

eimyr

but, having 12 skills at +4 pyramid gives players 10 of them at +1 or better, which I think is overdoing it

@doppelspooker not including Science

doppelspooker

13 standard skills (not including science), the science skill(s), and at least five Weird skills you can pick up via a Weird mode.

eimyr

1:47 PM

@doppelspooker So you're right, it's more, but not necessarily much more

I'd argue Weird skills are non-essential and by their very nature heavily intersectional

doppelspooker

It also caps out at +5 but doesn't use a skill pyramid, since it uses modes like you mentioned.

eimyr

ok, ok, I think I lost the subject

so I took the original 18 skills

decided to cut it by a third

or so

kviiri

Ah, the "why don't we just get rid of alignment" question of the day.

Or rather, question prompting the "why don't we just get rid of alignment" response from my sorry lungs.

eimyr

then noticed that I can get about the same coverage with a +3 pyramid (assuming most rolls are easier by 1 to account for lower power of the character) and have a smoother, less specialised characters

KorvinStarmast

Oh joyful day, Xanatar's Guide to Everything arrived in the mail last night. It's a lot to digest, but I have a few days off due to Thanksgiving. Yay.

doppelspooker

1:52 PM

@KorvinStarmast woohoo!

KorvinStarmast

I like Tyler Jacobson's art better, and I learned that there are already a few errata posted to twitter, but all in all a nice production.

As to "why don't we just get rid of alignment" there are plenty of tables that either ignore it, or barely acknowledge it.

Yuuki

Now if only I could ignore alignment in other things.

(Curse you, center-aligned divs!)

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast Sure, but it still seems to create problems for those who don't.

KorvinStarmast

Ah, it's an AL question, so this impacts public play. Interesting question. @kviiri Alignment can enrich the game, but I've seen only a few tables where it did; IMO it takes a certain kind of player and a certain kind of DM to get the most out of that much criticized feature.

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast I feel like the kinds of player and DM who can make alignment enriching are the same kinds of player/DM that can easily accomplish the same effect without alignment.

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