TRPG General Chat

one of them uses it to do evil, another is evil and cruel while at it, the third uses homosexuality for her own gain and the last one is undeniably of questionable reputation

unless you read the books, there are simply no positive/neutral gay characters, which is a poor narrative choice

I'm not saying, ofc, every game has to have a good gay character or a gay character at all, but if you have 4 of them and you write them all as bad-to-questionable...

trogdor

12:21 AM

I can see where you are coming from with that yeah

it seems, at best, like an un-optimal choice

even if they possibly didn't mean that kind of portrayal to mean something, they must have certainly made it look like it

eimyr

precisely, a poor narrative choice, one that implies certain attitude, even if unintentionally

nitsua60

hey @Shalvenay

@Tophandour first rule?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going over there?

nitsua60

I'm like a caveman huddled over a flat-looking rock that's one day going to be the first wheel, and every now and then....

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 heheh, lesson plans?

trogdor

12:25 AM

@nitsua60 XD

nitsua60

@Shalvenay lots of things. Getting the kids to brush teeth without someone crying: celebrate!

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 heheh

@nitsua60 when would be a good time for a r20 session with you DMing, btw?

nitsua60

eh... probably next Thursday?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 if I don't have waxeagle's game then, sure

nitsua60

but I promise it wouldn't be another maze =)

Tophandour

12:30 AM

@nitsua60 the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club

nitsua60

@Tophandour the second rule of tautology club is or is not the first rule of tautology club

goodnight

night

night

@eimyr thanks for your thoughts over in Genesis--just got home and haven't had much time to digest yet, but please do know that I appreciate the time

BESW

1:08 AM

So cute that 60s scifi was so worried that in the future humanity would become too logical and rational. SRSLY DONT EVEN WORRY ABOUT IT 60s

Tweeted by sydneypadua on January 2, 2016 at 11:26 PM

trogdor

lol

@BESW yyeeeeeessssss

I was waiting for this one XD

this doctor I mean

Zachiel

@eimyr unlimited ingredients?

I'm blocked at a side mission, getting killed by endrega queens on Very Easy mode, possibly because I'm not using potions.

trogdor

1:27 AM

I think he may have meant that herbs might re spawn in any given place if you pick them and come back later

I could be mistaken but that is what it would seem like

The Oracle

1

Q: How persistent are "continue this discussion in chat" rooms?

Occasionally a colloquy on a post will prompt a commenter to move the discussion to chat, as recently happened to me. The chat room thereby created: is it persistent, or does it expire after some time?

doppelgreener

1:45 AM

@BESW this is fantastic XD

trogdor

I don't see how you can laugh at something so horrible man

doppelgreener

@trogdor clearly I have a warped perspective of what's horrible then

trogdor

lol

doppelgreener

2:05 AM

@trogdor [reads meta post] what is the explanation for liking that one? :D

trogdor

huh?

the meta post?

doppelgreener

i have just said what was possibly one of the most unclear sentences i ever have. let me try that again. XD

i just read your hat post about liking the unicorn helmet. what's the explanation?

trogdor

ah

because it has a unicorn on it

pretty simple

doppelgreener

oh xD

trogdor

plus it does look funny on my avatar but that is a secondary thing

doppelgreener

2:09 AM

now i realise you said it requires little explanation, not a little explanation

(why must i somehow misread sentences in the tiny ways that maximize comprehension failure?)

trogdor

lol

well, no big deal

doppelgreener

2:26 AM

\o/

nitsua60

@doppelgreener can I ask, without seeming too stalker-ey, at what lattitude you live?(roughly)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 I live in Brisbane, Australia.

Wikipedia says that's at 27°28′S 153°02′E.

nitsua60

my (7yo) son was showing his little sisters a globe today and told them that southern parts of Australia have the "same weather as us, because they're on the 40 yard-line, too." [Northeast US, ~41 N lattitude]

your cheer ( \o/ ) make me think of it...

doppelgreener

2:44 AM

@nitsua60 I know we at least have very similar weather to Boston, but that's probably because Boston is a swamp, and so is Brisbane. :)

Melbourne and Sydney, which are toward the south, have very brisk winters which get close to freezing (but if there's any snow, it's very little, usually overnight, and quite remarkable) and very hot dry summers.

Brisbane has fairly tropical equatorial weather: no proper seasons, just Lesser Summer, Greater Summer, and a few weeks in "winter" in which it's not actually all that hot and maybe a little brisk and chilly some days.

nitsua60

(what the heck am I doing chipping ice off my doors when I could be living in a place with "Lesser Summer" and "Greater Summer"!?)

doppelgreener

Haha!

trogdor

or you could live where is is "dry" and "rainy" alternately through the year XD

doppelgreener

Australia's pretty great. Between the eastern capital cities, you have a choice of warm & humid-ish to fairly hot & very humid, or very cold (but not freezing) to extremely hot but very dry. Brisbane's the first one, and Sydney and Melbourne are the latter two. I suggest Sydney and Melbourne have the most comfortable weather, unless you're fine with sweating.

trogdor

then again, we get pretty bad storms, and our power services just started remembering they were supposed to be really bad

doppelgreener

2:54 AM

If you've experienced a Boston summer, it's pretty much what a Brisbane summer is like.

@trogdor Yep! 8) Tropical areas that measure the seasons by how much water is in the air. XD

trogdor

that is us for sure

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Also this is accurate - there's temperature bands that suggest where it's tropical, or more moderate, or desert-ish, or just plain freezing (the poles). For humans though, a few degrees makes a lot of difference, and for those degrees, the global wind currents also matter.

trogdor

course, we have also been getting some crazy variation in the last few years

doppelgreener

Neil Degrasse Tyson's Cosmos also describes how Africa was once lush, warm, wet, and lively thick forest. Then tectonic movements lifted the land-bridge connecting North and South America out of the ocean - roughly where Panama is now. That cut off Pacific wind currents which had previously reached Africa, and rearranged wind currents globally.

Now Africa has different winds, and it's got an awful lot more plains, desert, and savannah than thick forest now.

nitsua60

[still daydreaming about how he'll use Lesser Summer to tackle the pile of unfinished pleasure-reading from Greater Summer]

=)

trogdor

3:00 AM

lol

I would imagine some winters would actually be good for reading

at the very least, if you are snowed in reading is one of your few options

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 ha! not bad :)

nitsua60

@trogdor I've always advocated that if the US is to keep to our (silly, methinks) short school-year, I'd rather have a long winter break than a long summer break. Hibernate with some books, get in a lot of x-country skiing, and use the long days of summer to recreate and work/study.

trogdor

@nitsua60 seems like a good plan to me

doppelgreener

Why not a long summer break and a long winter break? :D

trogdor

because then when is school?

nitsua60

3:05 AM

@doppelgreener Greater Summer and Significantly-Lesser Summer, respectively?

trogdor

broken up into 2 separate quarters of the year? XD

plus, of course, still no school on sat and sundays?

doppelgreener

@trogdor who cares! :D Life is short! There's more important things to do! It's not like they were learning real-world skills like financial management & dealing with a world full of propaganda anyway.

nitsua60

ugh, now I'm thinking about two of the committees I serve on, and the structure of the school year/day. [Returns to Greater/Lesser Summer reading lists]

trogdor

seems like not enough time to learn anything

doppelgreener

(The American education curriculum also teaches quaternions somewhere in around age 15 or something, to which Mathematicians respond whyyy. I found that stuff tricky enough when I was 20.)

trogdor

3:08 AM

@doppelgreener I do think we are teaching the wrong things in schools, but cutting school time is not itself the solution

XD

doppelgreener

@trogdor Australia is too. I think when you cut out a lot of the kludge, schools don't need to actually take all that long.

trogdor

you might be right there

I mean, I sorta like the idea of trying to make sure kids know basic math and sciences, along with some history and such, but at a certain point some of the things they are learning isn't going to be used in all of their everyday life or their jobs

I mean, you can't expect a 6 year old to actually, really, truly know what job they will have as an adult

of course they want to be a firefighter or an astronaut as a kid

but when they grow up they might realize they are not brave enough (or don't have the exact right kind of bravery) to run into a burning building to save someone, or to actually launch into horrifying horrifying space

I won't pretend I have all, or even very many, of the answers, but I do think schools don't keep up very well with the real outside world

and not everything that is required learning is useful to everyone who is forced to try to pass a class on it T.T

nitsua60

@trogdor I work with new and developing teachers and always make a point of reminding them: "5 years out most of your students will remember only 5% of your course 'content'. Do yourself a favor and spend time thinking about what else is going on in that classroom."

trogdor

and I am not saying we shouldn't teach anything, I just think there is certainly some better way to do it than we had when I was in elementary-high school

and even college really

I had a hard time in college, partly because I was required to learn a level/kind of math I just get frustrated with

not saying math isn't useful, but you honestly don't use huge equations in every single job field

nitsua60

@trogdor yeah, only if you're lucky =P

@trogdor and the equations get a lot shorter if you use @doppelgreener's quaternions =D

trogdor

3:22 AM

@nitsua60 even if your job is actually based around certain kinds of math, you are only going to be using specific equations most of the time

like if I am in the shipping industry, there is math there, but if everyone is doing their job right, the same number of an item is in each crate and you can do relatively simple multiplication on it

not super simple sure, but simple enough

nitsua60

@trogdor in my experience (nuclear physics), my and my colleagues' reliance on small subsets of mathematics had a lot more to do with our habitual over-reliance on those tools, rather than with the non-utility of others...

in other word, spend a year swimming in elliptical equations, come back to problems that had you spinning in circles before, and suddenly it's like "why didn't I know this would be such a useful thing!?"

trogdor

@nitsua60 I am not trying to say that any of the math invented is useless

but does everyone need to know it?

no

some people do

but not every single person without fail

nitsua60

no, of course not, no more than everyone needs anything else

doppelgreener

I'm largely influenced by A Mathematician's Lament, which is about how mathematics is taught in the American curriculum. (Some of it works the same in the Australian curriculum.)

Lots of topics, such as algebra itself, were once considered very advanced. Complex algebra is still advanced!

nitsua60

@trogdor except what I'm trying to teach is (a) belief in one's own capacity to grow in knowledge and skill, regardless of domain; (b) a belief that the Universe is apprehensible; (c, if you listen really closely) both of (a) and (b) are great gifts to you from your Creator

doppelgreener

3:30 AM

Various sciences, history, geography, and so on, are awesome, but schools don't need to teach them the way they do. Mandatory, fill-out-all-12-years, etc.

trogdor

my main point is, I would actually rather spend time learning exactly every form of math I would need to for the actual job I have or am looking at having

nitsua60

when that ^-^ is your agenda, it matters very little what the actual content is, in my view

doppelgreener

I'd like to learn math that's cool and exciting, and have informal talks with my math teacher about mathematical theory.

trogdor

not every form of math someone decided a while ago that might theoretically be useful in hundreds of job fields

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener yeah. I think the focus on symbolic and numeric manipulation over discovery and proof is a real downer for students, and really hurts them for their future ability to study and learn the math they do need in their job

doppelgreener

3:32 AM

@Shalvenay Lockhart even laments how American schools teach discovery and proof as entirely rubbish.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener yah. it's way too little, too late, and too rigid

doppelgreener

(We never had to do that same stuff in Australian schooling, so I don't have direct experience with it.)

trogdor

@doppelgreener this pretty much so far is summing up the way I feel about how math is taught here

Shalvenay

@trogdor part of the problem is that your typical high school grad doesn't have the tools to comprehend learning a new field of math without a full textbook/course approach

trogdor

@Shalvenay I don't disagree with this

nitsua60

3:39 AM

@doppelgreener it's strange--I've taught math in four high schools in two states, and what Lockhart's saying there as regards the rigidity of curriculum just doesn't resonate with me. It's not been my experience. I've got to believe it's the authentic experience of others, because I hear the "lament" so much, but I've never felt like my approach or sequence was being dictated.

trogdor

math can be a beautiful thing, I am not arguing against knowing math

but the way it is taught is not the best way by far

not the general way anyway

nitsua60

[to be clear, I don't hear the lament in person--in articles, in generalized criticisms of the system, &c.]

trogdor

obviously there can easily be exceptions, but I got really really sick of having to learn soooo many new different Algebraic equations just from what many would consider "basic" or "required" math

nitsua60

@trogdor just for my context, can I ask what level(s) (primary/secondary/undergrad/grad) and/or countries' systems you're recalling when you say that?

trogdor

well, the courses I took were all here on Guam

which is using the US system because it is an American territory

nitsua60

3:44 AM

[I'm getting a vaguely "un-answerable" feel about rpg.stackexchange.com/q/72688/23970, but can't really articulate it...]

trogdor

I recall it was undergrad stuff

and I just want to reiterate again, Math is a good thing, but the way that it is taught, the idea of exactly what is necessary to know, all of the things connected to that are not fleshed out in a perfect way

nitsua60

@trogdor so, to dig deeper, primary with focus on computation, basic geometry, transitioning to algebra; secondary algebra, geometry, trig, possibly feeling like a railroad to calculus; then what in undergrad?

trogdor

do I know how to make a perfect system where everyone is having fun learning math and getting as much as they can learn and use? no

but we certainly could do better

nitsua60

@trogdor oh, sure--I'm not sensing any hostility here. (Rather unlike the typical cocktail party when It comes out that I teach math!)

@trogdor I do--it's my classroom! Unfortunately, a dozen other humans in the room don't always understand that =D

(kidding, of course)

trogdor

the biggest problem we have is that everyone goes into the same system, and the system seems to think we can all learn the exact same way

@nitsua60 uh, I definitely had some amount of Geometry and Trig in my courses, but I have to say I think it was mostly Algebra

the Trig really threw me off big time though

nitsua60

3:50 AM

when you say "system", you mean large/largish institutional education, classrooms and desks, grade levels largely by age, same graduation requirements for all students?

trogdor

@nitsua60 yeah pretty much

nitsua60

@trogdor lots of people get a pie in the face with trig, in my experience. I believe it's because it's the first time we're really expecting students to synthesize two maths, but most teach it like it's just-another set of topics.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, trig identities really were a downer for me, although right triangle trig was fine

trogdor

@nitsua60 yeah, I really wish even just one of my teachers actually treated it at all like it was majorly different

because it is

they might not feel like it, but I do XD

nitsua60

That is, to that point a student's studied three maths: counting/arithmetic, geometry, algebra. But trig/analytic geomery (as generally taught in the US) is a synthesis of algebra and geometry, and that's the first new thing that a student's really seen in a half-dozen years

Shalvenay

3:54 AM

@nitsua60 yeah.

nitsua60

@trogdor that's why I take graduate courses every year--to constantly remind myself what the students' experience is

trogdor

@nitsua60 sounds like a good idea

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 -- mind if I bounce a bit of d'born worldbuildy-type stuff off of you? I just realized that I'm kind of pulling a few facets of Jherala out of thin air :p

nitsua60

@trogdor that reminds me, in a few weeks I'll be starting back up. Likely it's pretty-much "bye-bye" to RPGSE at that point =(

@Shalvenay not at all--here or elsewhere?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 in Genesis I think

doppelgreener

3:57 AM

@nitsua60 oh noooooOOOO!! D': I enjoyed your company while you were around :D

nitsua60

@Shalvenay on my way

trogdor

@nitsua60 what, permanently?

or just for the year?

nitsua60

@trogdor no way--just that one more thing'll be ahead of y'all's on the priority queue

trogdor

ah ok

whew XD

nitsua60

(I could never leave before snagging "Epic"!)

(two days last week I was a vote or two shy... I hate to care, but I have been engineered!)

night, all

doppelgreener

4:09 AM

@nitsua60 Goodnight!

trogdor

5:12 AM

night,.. a little late probably, but night anyway XD

Dorian

6:03 AM

Does this die roller do d2's? I forget.

Prolly not.

trogdor

probably not

I have not tried to ever roll those

Dorian

/roll 3d4

Derp..

trogdor

nor have I ever seen one

Dorian

I don't remember how it's done :/

trogdor

3d4

Dice Service

6:04 AM

2

1

Dorian

Oh, so just the dice by itself. Kk. I feel like I have to do the roll though, because lol.

3d4

Dice Service

1

3

4

Dorian

Alrighty... So of the gestalted characters I get both characters made were male, and the meta-character making them is female. This is... I can work with this I think actually.

Tophandour

ah, by the way

I dunno if anyone in here was around when I was talking about my descent into madness guy

Dorian

Basically what I'm doing is making a character in a game I'm running and the character is made of one "real world" character playing a vrmmorpg, and they made two characters on the account that were fused together. I was determining the gender of each created character and the meta character.

Tophandour

6:08 AM

but in case anyone was, I came up with a variation of the "notes breadcrumbs" thing that I was going to do (because I always thought that it was unrealistic for a character to leave one page journal scraps everywhere

) <--oops, forgot a parentheses

anyway, I decided to add to the other components by having the dungeon be littered with little bits of paper that the guy used as notes to help him navigate the dungeon. Usually dated so that he had an idea of when he got to a certain segment

trogdor

what if he was scrawling on the walls as he went instead?

or even alongside

Tophandour

Well eventually he runs out of parchment

Dorian

Tophandour

But yeah, by the entry door the party will find a note stating that one path leads to a locked door and he'll come back to that later. There's a second note written on the same parchment that he wrote some time later when he got back to the door

@Dorian Yeah, eventually he gets to about this level.

trogdor

@Dorian ha! great example XD

Tophandour

6:12 AM

Runs out of parchment for notes first, then sanity

Dorian

I honestly can't think of a better example than Rattmann lol

Tophandour

But yeah, this way the party can see a progression in a vaguely believable way of this guy's descent into madness

notes start out practical at first, then annoyed, then a little cracked, and eventually just obsessed and often totally nonsensical

I just wanted to avoid the Elder Scrolls type of thing where you find one page journal scraps spread throughout a dungeon as if someone just tore up their journal and left it on the damp floor for no real reason

trogdor

yeah

Dorian

>tfw the game I'm building to run is so full of magical realm potential I don't even know what to do about it anymore, and two of the players seem at least mildly fine with this (quite possibly in a joking fashion but still, hard to get that over text).

>tfw I have to worry about when I recruit more players what they're going to do in here because holy crap...

trogdor

@Tophandour personally, I always liked that kind of thing, but a large amount of suspension of disbelief is needed, and you generally want as little of that to be needed as possible and still tell your story

Tophandour

6:19 AM

@trogdor Yeah, I'm fine with it when I'm playing a videogame because I know that it's a common tactic used to tell me a story, but in my campaign my players may think that it's suspicious that the pages were laid out in such a specific order and they may feel like they are running into a trap

because somebody laid out the pages in this order so somebody predicted that they would take this exact path

trogdor

yeah, it is definitely different when you know the person laying the notes out for you

Shalvenay

@Dorian heheh. at least nobody's going to buy the whole entire planet the campaign's set on, right?

trogdor

because no matter how much you trust them you still might feel suspicious of it

Tophandour

Sometimes I play against their expectations so when they notice certain tropes they'll joke about it at first and if it keeps going, they start getting paranoid

Dorian

@Shalvenay That...well it's possible.

Tophandour

6:23 AM

and then eventually they'd probably start trying to mine through the dungeon walls to get to the next hallway instead of going down the path they think they're supposed to go on :p

Dorian

Thankfully one player can't play, because he has a tendency to make even the worst build ideas OP, and good build ideas turn out Unstatted God-Tier in single digit levels.

trogdor

@Tophandour I am glad my group basically buys into whatever we are doing

and some of us take turns DMing, and no one is trying to screw anyone over

it's great

Dorian

I mean, he's pretty much restricted himself to a really really bad build idea right now once he's able to jump in, but that might change later. It's gonna be hard keeping in his power level. I enjoy playing with him, but this game is going to be a very high powered game with a metric crapton of allowances, so I have a feeling he's going to go overboard. I don't like restrictive games, never did, but then again I haven't played with many that optimize so well.

Even when I optimize, I tend to avoid obviously overdoing it, and have retired many characters I accidentally made too powerful.

trogdor

I only optimized a couple characters, and only about one of them was one I played

depending on the exact meaning of optimize really, but still

obviously I tried to make all my characters viable

Tophandour

@trogdor I'm one of two people in my gamer friend group that can consistently run a campaign and make it last longer than four or five sessions. One player (who also DMs for a game that I play in) and I have a pretty good understanding that we're not going to screw each other over because that would ruin the fun and the fun is important

but the rest of my players have always just been players so they are convinced that I'm trying my hardest to destroy them because I enjoy it

trogdor

6:29 AM

the two I think I optimized the most were 2 fighters in D&D 4E

Tophandour

Not that I give them evidence for that

trogdor

one was a push fighter, and one was a grab fighter

Tophandour

they're just convinced because webcomics say that's what DMs like :p

trogdor

@Tophandour for some groups that is actually what the DM is doing

my brother, at the very least, played in a group like that for a while

Tophandour

@trogdor Yeah, I have some friends that have bad Abused Player Syndrome because that's what they were used to. Or at least, they bought in to that idea too much

One of them is getting better, but I don't play with the other guy anymore because he just can't stop

Dorian

6:32 AM

Heheheh...

I play Dark Heresy with one group.

I don't think anything...

I know my GM is trying to kill everyone.

And the worst part is he isn't even the mean one of my live group. The mean one is a player this time around.

trogdor

is that system made specifically to try to kill off the PC's?

Dorian

I feel like if the mean one was running Dark Heresy we'd all leave sessions crying.

@trogdor It's a warhammer RPG, and it's one of the lower powered ones. I'm specifically playing Dark Heresy 2e...

My first character wound up getting nearly killed and used his evil demonic psychic power thing to survive... And then got killed later in the same session.

When he died he was sucked into what is essentially the setting's super-hell

trogdor

was it for using his powers, or for dying in the way he did?

Dorian

It was because of what he was.

trogdor

ah

Dorian

6:35 AM

Basically, psychic powers are connected to the Warp. The Warp is Super-Hell.

Some psychics are "approved" by the government, because they were trained and etc. The ones who weren't taken on black spaceships to a world that would specially train them to not be completely nuts... well they tend to be at least a little unhinged.

trogdor

ah the Warp, I don't know too much about Warhammer, but I do know the
Warp is basically an evil thing/place

Dorian

The Warp corrupts anything it touches.

Psychics are always connected to the Warp.

Mine wasn't trained, and was born a mutant as well, so he was pretty much the scum of scum.

And during creation he rolled a 1% chance mutation...

"The Warp Made Manifest"

Pretty much meant I was half demon already. And when I die I get sucked back into the warp.

trogdor

sounds like a pretty mean system

at least to your characters

XD

Dorian

My second character botched a stealth roll, was shot in the leg, then set on fire in knee high snow. Spent several rounds trying to put it out, only to fail repeatedly. One of my allies was fighting someone near me, chopped off both the dudes legs in one swing, and blood went everywhere, including on me. Everyone roll Fear tests...

I succeeded, extremely well, but was still on fire.

My comrade failed, and proceeded to go nuts and start attacking another comrade.

Meanwhile a fourth comrade spent several rounds pushing snow on me to put out the fire... At this point I'm paralyzed from the pain so I can't even flail anymore.

And he died, there, covered in blood and snow and snowmelt.

(fate point to JUST SAY NO TO DEATH)

But still

This is not a nice game.

Characters have a tendency to die in the session they are introduced.

Just because they rolled a bad check. In fact, the "mean guy" in the group had a character that did just that, fighting my mutant dude because "it looks evil, frenzy, attack" We knocked the character out, but it kept bleeding... After half a dozen failed attempts to stop the bleeding it was a dead character. Character hadn't even had a chance to say anything other than savage growls and warcries

One or two bad dierolls and you're pretty much dead, it's that quick in this game.

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention, where my character burned to death? Yeah, that was his first firefight.

I'm entirely new to Warhammer, and one of my comrades compared it to Dark Souls, saying that Warhammer is slightly easier. I disagree. Dark Souls is much easier (even if you assume that death is more permanent than the Souls games allow)

Hmm... You ever play a game called Pixel Dungeon @trogdor?

trogdor

I have not

Dorian

6:47 AM

Ah... Trying to think of something you might have experienced that I can compare it to. What about the World of Darkness games?

trogdor

no, not those either

are you comparing level of difficulty and permanence of death only?

maybe The Binding of Isaac fits in that case

Dorian

Level of difficulty.

trogdor

though technically you do like, earn stuff from beating the game several times

I have beaten the last stage a lot, an amount of times I lost track of, but I have also died at least 10 times as many times

probably more than that even

Dorian

Permanence of death is present in many games...

trogdor

yeah true

Dorian

6:50 AM

Hmm... I can't think of any vidya that I've actually played that is that hard, nor tabletop

Maybe the Silver Surfer game... but I've never actually played it.

I know it by reputation though.

trogdor

The Binding of Issac was pretty much made to screw you over some games

though you do also sometimes get blessed runs where you can almost do no wrong

Dorian

Pixel Dungeon is much like that, but it's all entirely luck based really.

Pixel Dungeon is a darn good Roguelike.

trogdor

and if you were theoretically good enough at the game it wouldn't matter what treasure and drops you were offered, but I wasn't that good. not sure if anyone is

Dorian

Rogue might be a good example come to think of it lolz

Dorian

7:05 AM

anyways, I gotta do some reading/notechecking, then take a nap before my game session tomorrow.

toodles

trogdor

7:23 AM

bye, see ya later

BESW

7:40 AM

**Cool RPG stuff:** [Bundle of Holding](http://bundleofholding.com "buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[Calidar "Beyond the Skies"](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ambreville/calidar-beyond-the-skies "Calidar Compendium of the Gods");
[Old Maps Online](http://www.oldmapsonline.org/ "gateway to historical maps in libraries around the world");
[creating an aged paper handout](http://www.fantasticmaps.com/2016/01/creating-an-aged-paper-handout/ "using an image manipulation program").

Last night we had an object which glowed "Disney Evil Green."

Shalvenay

@BESW harhar :P

I suppose that goes along with "Cherenkov blue"?

BESW

trogdor

9:18 AM

it's too bad too, cause green is my favorite color

BESW

9:34 AM

New Doctor is up.

eimyr

@Zachiel Witcher 2 is hard. But the herbs do regenerate and there is always at least one of reach type somewhere. For strolls on the forest I recommend keeping swallow and tawny owl at all times and keeping a supply of oil against insectoids.

@nitsua60 my pleasure

Zachiel

2:49 PM

@eimyr I got told it would be easier with a keypad or joystick. I wonder if anybody made a mod to change the combat to be similar to that of the first Witcher.

eimyr

3:49 PM

@Zachiel it wouldn't be easier with a pad or a joystick

Actually, when I first played TW2 I thought it's extremely hard. Then I embraced a couple viewpoints:

1. Quen is up at all times.

2. Roll, roll, roll

3. Control combat. Fight only one enemy at a time, otherwise disengage

4. Swallow and Tawny Owl up at all times. Third potion situational

5. Keep at least 2 of each oils.

I don't think TW2 is easily moddable, and certainly combat system in TW1 was a bit weird and broken in later levels. Actually, there is a mod for TW1 that makes it more like TW2.

@Zacheiuel What I found is that combat in The Witcher 2 is actually realistic in one regard: it's much, much more important to not be hit than to kill fast. It's ofc fantasy fighting with all the superhuman monster hunter tropes, but especially on Dark Mode (hard, but without death permanence) it requires you to be very careful.

Shalvenay

4:21 PM

hey there @nitsua60

Zachiel

4:43 PM

@eimyr One problem i had with TW2 is that I have no idea which button I have to press to activate which spell, or wich name is which spell, except igni.

My approach to every game is "try to get one at a time unless you're very confident you can take them all", it was not enough this time. And I'm on the easiest setting. Maybe I just need to level up more and to have potions going on

I liked how tW1 had "easy mode = no need for potions"

eimyr

5:06 PM

@Zachiel easy mode = normal in TW2

fighting one at a time means rolling, until the second enemy is behind the one you want are engaging

also, rolling is dangerous, it exposes your back and you get 150% damage if hit from behind

I assume you are in Flotsam, what is your level and build?

do you have any reasonable (not the starting) equipment?

Shalvenay

@eimyr -- say, I think I figured out one of the problems that's made my troublesome char so troublesome -- and that's excess precision in my RP. I'm so often trying to do something specific enough that the overall end goal that the social contract says RP should be about is invisible

Zachiel

@eimyr I'm following the "potions and tumble build" but I'm only taking the tumble part for now since i don't like consumables. I'm level 6 I think? Let me do my dailies in Hearthstone and then I will check. I had the silver sword reforged anyway.

@Shalvenay like what?

Shalvenay

@Zachiel for instance, coming up with some complex scheme to cure someone of a poisoning without the antidote at hand, when that totally bypasses the overall OOC goals of the poisoning plot.

@Zachiel in other words, I'm so immersed in the details of how the poison works etal that I'm forgetting about what role it should play in the plot and what the plot's designed to do for the players involved

Zachiel

Well, that might be a problem in some games.

Shalvenay

@Zachiel yeah, it definitely is an issue in the game in question -- people want to treat plot devices as well...plot devices, not as multifaceted tools; while at the same time, I wind up sucking the complexity out of the characters because I don't address motivations and such, which winds up treating other folks' characters as plot devices.

Zachiel

5:19 PM

I think this involves the notion of partecipetionism. The games you're attending have in their social contract a certain grade of accepted railroading. The quest is not "cure the poisoned", it is "get the antidote" - then, you either have a GM who knows how to make the antidote needed anyway (but this quicly becomes you trying to shift the attention to alternative solutions) or you accept it - or you play different games that cater to your needs.

Accepting it might be the best solution, but it often is the hardest one.

Shalvenay

@Zachiel that example was considered too railroady by the other players involved, actually -- but my general point still hods.

Zachiel

"You need to get the mcguffin, Shalvenay, but we can't really tell you why."

I imagine a game where you get asked to do things, then you say "but couldn't we have solved the problem this way instead?" and then it turns out the things you had to do were for some greater scheme, be it induced personal growth, a plot to deceive the party or something else.

Shalvenay

@Zachiel yeah. my "this way" often winds up short-circuiting the intended journey with its accompanying character growth, etal

Zachiel

Than maybe your GM needs a reason to force that character growth because of some in-game need. Maybe someone wants to evaluate you. Maybe they count on you trying to find another solution but doing what they ordered you anyway. Be a soldier that obeys because you don't want to get your commander / nation / comrades into trouble.

And ask your GM to play unreasonable commanders if he needs to get you back in track.

Shalvenay

@Zachiel also, this is in synchronous online-freeform, with no designated GM

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