wait, how can they be tsundere and amorous?

if he hasn't even met any of them before

Anyone interested in brainstorming rules for ships in Fate?

what kinda ships?

Sunless Sea ships. The kind the party owns, and sails in.

ah ok

basically sea ships, but obviously more steampunk and such

Yep. Which shouldn't make much of a difference to the rules.

I am passingly familiar with the sunless sea setting,.. very passingly but at least I am at all

I'm trying to emulate the rogue-lite nature of the game, without actually doing resource management, which is antithetical to Fate.

hmm

well, you can still have the party take consequences for the ship being damaged, running out of food/other supplies

obviously some of that needs to be compelled and others would happen more because of an attack or an accident that wasn't handled entirely cleanly

but yes, major resource management would at the very least be a hassle to make work

I have an idea that skirts it, and may actually work. Various supplies and preparations the party might make while on shore are advantages they create, with free invokes put on them. So you might have Barrels of Fish with 2 invokes when you set sail. And should there be a roll for feeding the crew, these invokes would come in handy.

you could use, for example, the ARRPG faction consequence track

Oh, yeah, the ship will have consequences, and a mode.

One of the things I'm struggling with, is whether or not to have stress tracks for the ship, and if so how many.

@Magician this seems like a good start of an idea yeah

There are a lot of things that can run out in SS the computer game, all of which will be bad: fuel, supplies, terror, crew, hull.

@Magician how much do you want upgrades or customization of the ship to happen?

@trogdor I expect it'd mostly be upgrading the skills in the ship mode, and maybe getting a stunt when story warrants it.

ok

but you don't want it to really be bigger than that I take it

because I figure the stress track on the ship itself might depend on just how good it is supposed to be

@trogdor Yeah, it would be natural to tie some of those stress tracks to the skills of the ship

also, keeping in mind that it does still have consequence slots

But should there even be stress tracks? For most it won't make sense to clear them at the start of each scene.

well

The other option is to just have consequence slots. So if you fail to feed the crew, well, Hungry Crew minor consequence is a thing you'll have to deal with, and everything's just a bit worse after that.

remember, stress involves when you AVOIDED getting hit with something that would actually damage you

if anything, this could be considered the stress of the crew overall

Right. But stress is also mostly used in situations where multiple rolls will be made to inflict it, i.e. combat. I don't expect there'll be a lot of rolling to see if the crew is fed.

how well they can continue to avoid consequences, literally, of being nearly hit by shells, monsters or other even more insidious things

do you not expect them to be attacked a lot, and if you do expect them to be attacked, how lethal exactly do you want it to be?

that is probably the main question

@Magician you obviously haven't ever considered having to ram friendlies in the heat of a fight ;) been there, done that, earned that T-shirt

Fighting will happen. So I think a crew stress track and a hull stress track may be in order.

@trogdor Quite lethal. The zee does not forgive.

oh and I just though of something

you might take stress boxes away due to a failure to feed the crew, or a particularly effective fear or moral attack

obviously this is not normally done in Fate, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't try it

Hmmm. How is that different from filling the stress boxes?

@Magician in this case you might take my above suggestion, or you might leave stress out entirely

@Magician they don't come back

then again,... it is a lot like consequences now that I think of it

Yeah :)

XD

I was thinking that you would have to do something to unlock them again and then wait the proper amount of in game time,... but that is exactly how consequences work T.T XD

it seems like crew stress is the way to go

and have ship consequences and maybe even crew consequences too, though I see no reason they can't be the same track

Ok, so, two stress tracks: crew and hull. Crew is obviously tied to Hearts skill. Hull would be... Veils?

is keeping it tied to these things,.. important?

for some particular reason?

Not that it matters if we go by the default ARRPG method of allocating extra stress boxes, as there's only one ship mode.

Guess not :)

I think one of the things you will want to do is make it harder to clear consequences

Oh, yeah. To clear them, first you have to dock.

Basically, ship rules and zailing rules (something I'm still working on) are there to not-so-gently encourage the party to land on islands along the way, not just stream ahead.

@Magician your players and their crew need to have the supplies or resources to repair the ship or feed the crew, and of course yes need to dock at a port or something to make repairs that are anything other than really minor

and of course if the whole point is to make sure they do certain things like land often and do "quests" or the like, you can make said resources and docks relatively easy to find or get to as long as they actually do said things

Hrm. And I guess if we're not having a fight, but rather a single check or challenge to feed or pacify the crew, we can go straight to consequences if we fail, ignoring stress.

I say relatively because they could of course be guarded along the way by monsters or traps or something

yeah

There are plenty of islands, all of them weird and vaguely dangerous.

As opposed to the open zee, which is weird and very dangerous.

@Magician yeah exactly, but if you can deal with that they should probably usually also have what the crew needs

@trogdor although I have run into stations with no repair facilities before shakes fist angrily

@trogdor Yup. The goal isn't to starve half way through the second game, we're not trying to emulate the computer game that closely :)

the point isn't being completely easy so much as making it more or less obvious what needs to be done to take care of your resource needs

@Magician I figured that was the case XD

it is, to whatever degree, randomly generated after all

@Magician Sails full of Stars is a Fate Core-based Fate World which removes the Vehicles skill and adds Sail, used for maneuvering, ramming, and stuff. You use Shoot for cannons, Crafts for maintenance and repair, and Athletics for getting around the ship quickly.

@doppelgreener current plan is to have corresponding officers' skills add to the skills of the ship. Skills of the ship represent it's equipment and quality.

my idea is that the players will have to balance between how dangerous an island is/how dangerous they think it is and how badly they need resources of food, fuel, or materials to repair the hull and such

Also, the social skills have various stunts for affecting the morale of your crew, and the Will stunts for the captain are about them putting their blood & sweat & tears or their determination into the ship.

My current plan for zailing is to have someone roll fate dice for each unit of distance the ship travels. Blank dice do nothing, pluses indicate external problems (pirates, zee monsters, freak weather) while minuses indicate internal problems (stowaways, mutiny, hunger, terror). A single symbol is something to be solved with an Overcome action. Two mean it's likely a challenge or a small combat. Three or four, and we're looking at an adventure in its own right.

@Magician Ah! Sounds neat. Like, your ship's offensive/cannoneering/something skill is +X, which represents a teamwork attack between everyone who knows how to man a cannon?

@doppelgreener Yeah. Gives great importance to PCs still, but reinforces that the ship is important.

@Magician Also look at Aether Sea.

Look at all the things!

Looks like it's got ship rules (figures), cool.

well that is convenient

Basically a ship is a collection of stunts, aspects, and consequence slots that the group shares, except that one character can't use all the stunts; each stunt corresponds to a "station" on the ship which must be manned in order to be used.

cool

@BESW That works out really well, the party we've made are all various officers on the ship.

It makes a certain amount of sense if the ship has various cools stunts, but you can only use the ones attached to the station you are manning

say that, for example, you have the guns, and they give you + whatever and weapon whatever to attacks

or you could man the steering wheels to change course or try to dodge something, or the engines to give it more speed

YE RAMMIN' BARGE. Reinforced rammin' bow (Pilot): Weapon:4 on direct ship-to-ship collisions.

(cannons? what cannons?)

Presented without comment.

uuuuuhhhhhhhmmmmm waaaaaaaaaaaaat?

I recognise that snowman thing.

That's about how fast it melts in Australia. (Ok, little slower.)

that is the speed it would melt here,....

> Armored Bow gives +2 when Forcefully ramming another ship. (Aether Sea 26)

ice at least, melts ridiculously fast here

@BESW I see I have a kindred spirit in the authorship of that book.

why is this 2 and a half hours long? wwwwwwwwwttttttttfffffffff

> A PC operating a station can decide what that part of the ship does and which approach they use and the ship uses. The operator rolls four fate dice, adds their approach to the ship’s approach, and resolves the action normally.

Album of Ralph McQuarrie's concept art that defined the visuals for Star Wars episodes 4-6.

wow

some of that is pretty spot on

not just like, close, but literally looks exactly the same

I mean, yeah concept, art, I get that

but usually when I see that stuff none of it looks that exactly like the finished thing

hey there @nitsua60

hey @Shalvenay. Just off the road from travels. 14-day stretch of family/visitors is over; three days to recover.... How's your project going?

@nitsua60 OK, parts enroute :)

@BESW I will get you for exposing me to this you fiend

@nitsua60 will you be around tomorrow during the day?

yup, mostly--got something in mind?

@nitsua60 that'd be an OK time to DM something to me on r20 if you're up for that on such short notice :)

@Shalvenay could work. Same character okay?

@nitsua60 ah, I might drag my Dragonborn in for whatever you cook up, actually :)

@Shalvenay Ohh.... sorry--didn't read closely enough. For me to DM. Understood.

Could work. Got to do some shopping in the morning, but mid-day's pretty open.

@nitsua60 sounds good to me

I do wish people didn't think "Hey, that confuses me, what are you asking here?" meant "You're wrong and shouldn't be asking."

@BESW Ah, wishes. I wish queens read answers before they commented, but what can you do.

*querents

@BESW To be fair, it's a pretty silly question.

And apparently "Why Lovecraft, out of all the insanity the world has to offer?" is a tangent.

At least we got it a little clearer that he's open to Derlethian Mythos inspiration rather than inspiration from the letter-writer himself.

that is odd that people don't like it if they are asked what they mean

I personally take it as meaning I was not clear enough

thats,.... usually what it means XD

With a negative score, people are looking at the comments as "downvotes why? Community pliz!"

I think it's a bit frivolous, and may indicate a dearth of research effort. That'd explain some downvotes.

I downvoted because it's not useful, not particularly interesting either, and asking if something had any influence seems patently ridiculous.

To be fair he's asking for citation.

But, well, why not ask "what's the visual inspiration for this?" instead of "It's totally Lovecraft, right?"

I mean, have you seen Arthur Rackham's illustrations of Ring Of The Nibelung?

"Was this inspired by?" - sure. But this can be legitimately answered by proof that Gygax read Lovecraft.

I have not seen the question in,.. question

but I have noticed the thing that happens sometimes when clarification is asked for

especially if accompanied by a negative score on the post

There, now it's a good question rather than just one I won't vote to close.

I think the only reason I have not had any negative score posts is because post so little, and I am super picky with what I would post

I try to make sure everything I do post is actually clear and useful, and all my answers are based off of my actual experience or book knowledge (most of my posts are answers)

I imagine that is the case for most positive posts too, maybe part of the problem is that some people are either new to the site and don't know how it works, or they are instead not used to having people say their posts are not useful as is?

I wouldn't assume those are the only two things, but it seems like they might be problems

One of the reasons I don't ask a lot of questions is that it's hard for me to express them really clearly.

I think I am more of an "Answer" kind of person

if I have access to the source material I ferret it out myself

partly because it is an excuse to read something

but even as far as that, a lot of the questions I see here that I feel I could answer really well,... already have someone answering in a way I like or even practically almost exactly the same way I would

therefore, I kinda have gotten used to not posting very many of either answers or questions

plus most of my expertise or need comes from 4E and Fate

and those are not the most popular tags here

at least in terms of frequent posting

i often psych myself out of answering fate questions or someone else has already left an excellent one, so i get what you mean there :D

Our new year resolution is 1920X1200.

I needed a minute to get that one

what about a quote about being skeptical about hats

it's been so long

I can't remember the quote I probably would have suggested

I do recall something that she said to Moulder that actually stuck with me for a while that sort of highlighted her character at the time to me

well, recall that it existed

I don't recall IT itself anymore T.T

Most of her quotes make little sense out of context of the conversation.

yeah, there is that too I would think

she did have a way with words, but she almost always did seem to fit them to the situation at hand

I did like that show, but I think it would have helped me like it more if I was just a smidgen older when I watched it

cause it actually scared me a little too much sometimes

I just had the horrifying thought of Dr Dinosaur voiced by Jim Parsons.

uhm

I don't think I recall his voice?

I am sure I have seen him in something,... but I don't know what it was

Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory, or Oh in Home.

hmm

maybe I just got some small clip of Big Bang Theory

I think I have, though not more than maybe 10 seconds of it any single time

The pitch isn't what I'd been imagining for Dr Dinosaur at all, but the tone and inflections are spot on.

@doppelgreener Ah, I totally forgot about that - I have to say something funny within the next 24 hours.

i said all my funny things last night, all my funny is gone for the year, whoops

@BESW oh nice it's changed :O

@BESW The dearth of effort I presume on OP's part was why I downvoted--if the querent were serious I'd have expected to see some analysis of the Classical and Romantic sources cited in their own blockquote, contrasted with elements in the D&D description that appear not to come from those.

A comment to that effect would be good!

It is now, (as far as I'm concerned) 2016. Happy New Year, RPG.SE in general, chat denizens in particular, and especially whoever got me my final hat!

XD someone starred that exact thing, that is beautiful

not that they needed to, but they solidified your first place position in terms of hats on RPG SE

It's been a good year for me for hats. I only needed to do one thing really out of the ordinary to get one.

I have restrained myself,.. mostly

Although I feel a twinge of regret for Vote Early, Vote Often - I started out trying to get it but it's just so much work.

to be fair, my frequency of votes went up, but what I voted on and how I voted did not

ah

I did get that one

I had to sift through a lot of 4E stuff but it happened

there was not enough Fate stuff left to make it work by itself

Good morning

good morning to you as well

though it has not been morning here for a while

@Miniman Happy New Year to you--and con(gr|h)ats!

(I remember back when he was just passing 40K....)

@Miniman so what was the one "out of the ordinary" activity?

@BESW done (sort of)

@nitsua60 I bountied something I shouldn't really have bountied to get some more votes on it.

I am a tag wiki edit approval away from having the authority to approve tag wiki edits

How often are specific questions discussed here? Or should someone make a separate room for it?

@Joninean fire away

@Joninean Pretty often. The evil cabal that lurks in chat secretly controls the fate of every question on the site.

I asked a question about what action should be taken for gliding, and the answers are contradicting. >.>

@Joninean linky?

I discussed it with my DM as well, but he's also at a loss.

Also, first time in this chat. Any chat-specific unwritten rules are unknown to me.

@Shalvenay just leaving for errands now--will probably be back and free 'round your mid-day

@nitsua60 yup, I'll have a couple hours then

@Joninean 1. All praise The Doctor, 2. Everything Is Better With Ponies 3. @BESW can be summoned at will 4. Timezones Are Forbidden.

That's pretty much what the chat is about.

@eimyr Wow, you have Onion Knight? Any idea how?

Nope.

@eimyr I will keep that in mind.

With the black and blue hat I had an idea, but not with the onion

Also, eimyr jokes about this kind of stuff without restraint, @Joninean

In reality, it's just Be Nice.

@eimyr I can do that.

@Joninean -- do you want an answer substantiated in the RAW for that ability, or a total houserule rework of it?

I have no doubt.

@Shalvenay RAW is most preferred. A good houserule is acceptable.

@Joninean because the RAW here is quite...dysfunctional to say the least, as KRyan alluded to in his answer

@Shalvenay nodnod

@Joninean also, as-written, the raptoran fall mitigation is nonsensical -- Vne has something to say about it...

@Shalvenay Vne?

@Joninean ah. V-never-exceed -- the maximum safe airspeed for anything that flies by way of conventional aerodynamics. above it, bad things start happening, like flutter and excess structural loads

@Shalvenay Ah, yeah. I must say, the second part of the text was rather irrelevant, but Ruut edited it in. Now it's confusing people about the actual subject of the question, it seems.

I linked to question to my DM, and he's like: "Well, the second part takes no action."

@Joninean yeah, the second part can't take an action in the action economy

as it is contingent on your character being unable to act

@Shalvenay The first part confuses me though. I'm trying to make a swift hunter Raptoran, and being able to glide and full attack would be nice, hence the question in the first place.

But now it's almost a discussion of "Which rule applies?"

@Joninean I'm wondering if there are any other examples of non-move-action, non-forced movement in 3.5e to compare against now

@Shalvenay I'd say Slow Fall is a close one.

I also commented on the newest question if there were more examples of movement-related abilities asking for a standard action. I believe him, but it barely makes sense to me.

well, Withdraw is full-round, but I think it serves the purpose

@Shalvenay Woops, Feather Fall*

(also, Raptorans have a remarkably bad glide ratio -- only 4:1? a C172 glides better than that!)

@Shalvenay It's good enough for me. :P Still, are other texts about gliding more clear?

@Joninean I haven't seen any, so I dunno

@Shalvenay From GitP: "Gliding is not considered a movement type; it is an extraordinary ability in 3.5. " <- The thing that confused me the most.

@Joninean GitP is av very unreliable source

@JoshuaAslanSmith Hence why I asked the question here.

@Joninean I think it'd be considered equivalent to flying -- just from a simulationist standpoint. all winged flyers can glide, after all.

@Shalvenay The thing is, that's not true. It's listed as a separate extraordinary ability.

@Joninean so "Gliding" and "Flying" are two different Ex abilties on the Raptoran?

@Shalvenay Indeed.

@Joninean that has a seriously broken RAW implication -- that most winged flyers, AIUI, can't glide

@Shalvenay Let me quickly look up another flying thing.

@Shalvenay It's part of the "Raptoran traits". Looking up other flying creatures, I have found none so far that can glide.

@Shalvenay Also, to explain the impossible never-take-more-than-1d6-falling-damage-issue, SRD: "Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics."

@Joninean yeah. the way I'd run it if I was DMing is that gliding is a movement type that requires that the character have a gliding speed to function. entering or exiting a glide is a free action unless triggered by some other contingency, and maneuvering while gliding requires a Fly check with say +3 DC over the equivalent powered flight scenario. the Glide Ex ability would then grant the char a glide speed.

@Shalvenay With no action necessary to maintain? I might show this to my DM, see what he thinks of it.

@Joninean since gliding is a movement type under this formulation, it can be used anywhere typed movement is allowed :)

(which means that you can glide as a move action, but also withdraw by gliding, etal)

@Shalvenay That would make sense. The only problem with this is that IRL, no action would be required from, say, a paraglider to remain gliding, while this ruling does require an action from you.

@Shalvenay Personally, I'd think gliding is something you do enter or exit as a free action (like flying), but requires you to be free-falling. I don't think, for instance, you can affect your glide-speed and "glide faster". This would mean you cannot run or withdraw while gliding, but it wouldn't require actions to maintain.

@Shalvenay It feels more logical this way, but also feels a bit unbalanced compared to other flying creatures.

@Joninean withdrawing while gliding would still work under your formulation.

@Joninean the problem with your statement is that there's a question of "faster in which sense of the term?"

@Shalvenay With withdraw, you move twice your speed, which wouldn't be possible in my formulation, as gliding would be a passive that can be activated.

because you certainly can trade altitude for airspeed when in a glide, or vice versa

@Joninean if you can't withdraw as a full round action because you only can take a standard action, you can withdraw at your normal movement speed

@Joninean a full round withdraw lets you move twice your speed because it's a full round of movement

@Shalvenay True, but the amount of gliding per round seems fixed: "A raptoran can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall of any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Raptorans glide at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability)." Or am I misinterpreting it?

@Shalvenay Oh, yeah. You're right about the withdrawing.

@Joninean glide speed would likely be the "best rate of glide speed" in this case

(Vy, if you ask a RL aviator about it)

@Shalvenay That sounds alright. The biggest problem now, however, is that since it's an Ex ability, and no other action is stated, it would either be a standard or no/free action. IMO, both don't really seem to fit in here, but a move action would be against RAW.

Stupid birdpeople

@Joninean eh, flying can be an Ex ability and require a move action to sustain. this is a case where the GM has to sew together the system with a bungee cord :P

also -- I so wish Peter Kampf from Aviation.SE was around to pop his head into this -- he'd probably be able to explain the whole business with gliding at different speeds to you waaaaaay better than I can, as he's spent a lot more time flying gliders/sailplanes around than I have!

@Shalvenay Correct, but flying at least states it specifically; "Activating" flight is a free action, maintaining it, since it has a speed, costs a move-action. Hovering takes no action though, and gliding, to me as someone whose best flying-experience is having been in a plane twice, seems like hovering with a speed.

'Cause you're sorta slowly falling forward...

I might be saying something completely stupid now, though.

@Joninean well, it's interesting that hovering doesn't take an action -- that sure isn't true if you're sitting in the left seat of a R22 helicopter!

err, right seat :)

either way around

@Shalvenay Haha, I believe you completely. But indeed, hovering takes no move action.

On the other hand, it takes a certain maneuverability to be able to hover, which a Raptoran doesn't have.

@Joninean yeah, no doubt.

@Shalvenay It's a weird thing altogether, really. I would like an answer. Will probably put a bounty on it tomorrow or so.

@Joninean yeah. I might see about poking someone in Aviation.SE about how a glider would change its groundspeed, and how what they're doing affects sink rate

@Shalvenay That might be of some relevance.

@Miniman you're welcome, i found it very funny in its own right

I'm just proud I got this to work.

data.stackexchange.com/rpg/query/418010/star-wars-games

@Joninean actually, come to think of it -- it is as simple as I thought

gliders can vary their airspeed, and thus, their groundspeed -- you can trade altitude for airspeed or airspeed for altitude, or carry ballast aloft with you to increase your speed (and interestingly enough, possibly your endurance as well)

@Tritium21 noice!

hey there @nitsua60

hey @Shalvenay--just got back. It appears I'm neither the only person with the day off nor the only one with the idea to do some shopping... =P

@nitsua60 haha :P so do you have to head out this afternoon?

Give me fifteen minutes? I hadn't any time to do r20 prep, but have an idea for a chat-scenario I'd like to try out.

@nitsua60 sure.

@Shalvenay no, got everything done, it just took waaay longer than I'd anticipated

'kay--be back soon

@nitsua60 ah :) I have about 90mins-2hrs or so from when you'll be back, then have to run my errands for the day, so perhaps you can knock something together real fast for r20 while I'm out running errands?

@AshleyNunn -- can you unfreeze The Back Room please?

@Shalvenay back--you here?

@nitsua60 sure am

Would you mind if we just did something via chat now, rather than full-on r20 later?

@nitsua60 we can do something via chat now :)

I uh, i'm just gonna back away now

Hey guys happy new-

....

looks around

looks at darksign

leaves room

@trogdor It's okay, this cat is just the new Master of the Clow.

I am not sure if that is really supposed to reassure me or not

It probably won't get very far without thumbs.

so it will just murder me, still not sticking around

I mean it even looks like a horrible demon

... actually...

@trogdor Tarunik pops out of the summoning circle instead, complete with capital ship "Were you the one who lit that cyno?"