TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

@Shiester Yes, there are various items and prestige class features (and probably other things) which modify that behavior.

BESW

12:14 AM

A question about ways to do that would also be great for the site.

Heck, if you don't want to ask it, I will--but not for another day or so.

Alex P

I am way, waaaay to proud of the example I made up for this answer.

*too proud

Not a good typing day, clearly.

Shiester

Alright, give me a moment to post a question.

wax eagle

evening folks

Alex P

Evenin

Shiester

Question has been posted Here

Shiester

12:44 AM

I have a comment regarding this.

Stickyfingers are already OP because of the "Climb Anything" perk, but if you gave a ragebear that perk through the proposed half/half mix it would be even more powerful. Giving it the ability to climb anything would be like giving a crocodile the ability to climb trees.

Alex P

It's true. And I never anticipated the rules nightmare that happens when two Stickyfingerses simultaneously Climb each other.

Shiester

i am having the hardest time getting a weather almanac for a full year in PDF format.

You wouldn't happen to know where I could download a complete weather almanac for a past year like 2004?

BESW

Hmm. When I'm back on the main computer I can do some looking.

Shiester

1:55 AM

almost finished - got frustrated so I'm drawing up my own

>tfw looking at side stars, click a link, and see the same link I posted

>tfw now 100% paranoid that a co-worker reads this chat as well

fug off eric, if you're here.

BESW

2:09 AM

Pretty sure Magician isn't your coworker. Unless you're in Australia, then it's passingly possible.

RedRiderX

2:52 AM

Fan theory that Melanie Bush is an incarnation of River Song: reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/1xrrnb/…

I must admit that it was a fun read.

Also hi all

Alex P

3:13 AM

Howdy

BESW

5:30 AM

@RedRiderX [twitch]

BESW

5:46 AM

@RestinginShade Hi!

Resting in Shade

A wild Resting in Shade appears.

@Besw uses greet. Its super effective!

BESW

Heh. What's up? Anything in particular we can do for ya?

Resting in Shade

Its not a question of what you can do for me, its a question of what I can do for YOU.

I'm largely curious.

I'm brand new to the whole Stack Exchange thing. I just came over from Quora after having my heart broken.

BESW

@RestinginShade Ah, well welcome then!

Resting in Shade

@Besw thanks. I appreciate it. Right now I'm just trying to get the hang of how the question/post format works etc etc.

BESW

5:51 AM

The Exchange is a rather unusual place, and you'll find that each individual site has its own quirks and culture. Stacks with larger user numbers--especially the programming-related ones--move fast and furious, while smaller Stacks like this one can be a little more personal.

@RestinginShade That's a good place to start. I'm mostly familiar with the rpg.se culture, but I'd be happy to help however I can.

(Disclaimer: I am not a mod, and chat is not a venue for official policy.)

Resting in Shade

That's what I'm looking for. Quora has some strengths but it lumps everyone into one big user group without any chance to differentiate into personal spaces. You get power users like that who can game the system to make their turds shine, meanwhile the rest of us toil away thanklessly.

@BESW

@Besw of course. and thanks. Is RPG.SE very active in terms of ongoing RPs? As in, are there groups based off of the site itself or is it like the rest of the sites in that it is strictly question based?

BESW

@RestinginShade Every now and then a game springs up; I was the primary GM for a Fate Accelerated game in the chat for several months last year.

Resting in Shade

So its really more of a touchstone than a meeting point, that's unfortunate. How is the community growth as far as you've seen?

BESW

But it's not regular or sustainable. The most success is with quick games that last no more than a couple hours, sort of a spontaneous "flash game" using a simple system like Roll for Shoes or Fate Accelerated or Flying Temple.

We've got members from all over the world, Australia and Canada, France and Israel, Argentina and Korea, so there's a very healthy diversity but it makes coordinating games almost impossible.

Resting in Shade

You almost have to go by a turn by e-mail sort of gig then huh?

BESW

5:58 AM

That's been suggested, but rarely implemented.

Last year one guy tried a game where everyone posted their move once a week, but it fizzled when Real Life caught up with him.

As I said, the most successful games are when a couple people who are already online decide they have the time and interest to play something short right then.

Resting in Shade

Which makes shit terribly spontaneous and uncoordinated.

BESW

Most of us are already in games--that's why we're here in the first place--and we join chat to talk about existing games or keep distracted at work or whatever.

@RestinginShade yes, well. That's why we use systems like Roll for Shoes instead of something like, say, any edition of D&D.

They're designed especially for spontaneous no-prep gaming.

@RestinginShade Our numbers are healthy. We have decent citizen retention and a very good question-answer ratio.

Resting in Shade

could I get a link to what exactly roll for shoes is? I see a tag on the site, but no wiki page

BESW

...the RFS tag doesn't have a wiki? I could've sworn I made a wiki for that.

Anyway, here's the link.

And here's the tag info.

You've probably already figured this out, but every Stack has its own tour and help pages, based on the original SE policies and then modified more or less as needed to reflect that particular Stack's bailiwick and priorities.

Every Stack also has a meta site for questions about the site itself (rather than questions about the site's topic). Meta is where policies and precedents are discussed.

Resting in Shade

Hmm, very interesting- is there a mechanic that you guys use in the chat to roll the d6s?

BESW

6:09 AM

1d6

•

2d6

•

Very nice

Chat rooms associated with the rpg.se site have a custom dice client!

The formula is XdY where X is the number of dice (up to 9) and Y is the faces on the die (4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 20 are supported).

Resting in Shade

6:10 AM

9d20

Dice Service

20

9

8

16

19

14

18

7

BESW

The client can't handle modifiers like 1d20+9, but you can roll multiple types of dice at one, like 2d6 1d4.

We have made a script which turns d6s into Fudge dice but only in the Fate game room chat.

Resting in Shade

1d4 1d6 1d8

Dice Service

2

•

2

Resting in Shade

Very nice. This makes me wish that I knew more about tabletop gaming

I'm really just a passerby without any experience in that sort of stuff to speak of

BESW

6:13 AM

No worries, we won't kick you out.

Resting in Shade

I hope not, otherwise you'd be dicks

Know of any decent online communities that do this sort of thing though?

BESW

This is often one of the few SE chats which combines the qualities of both civility and regular activity, so we occasionally get people who otherwise wouldn't be around the RPG part of the Exchange.

(The "regular activity" bit is hard to maintain in most Stack chats.)

@RestinginShade I'm not the person to ask about other online RPG communities, but there are others around who (once they pop up) will be happy to make recommendations.

What in particular are you looking for? A community to introduce you to the general RPG landscape, or to play games with you, or...?

Resting in Shade

I've got very little experience with detailed boardgames, but I will admit that my curiosity is piqued. I'd be interested in somewhere that ran online games. I just found a site called Roll20. About to make an account.

BESW

@iDev, @Brant Hi!

Brant

Hi!

BESW

6:19 AM

Okay, super-quick primer on RPGs: Traditionally, a tabletop RPG consists of a group of people gathering to tell semi-improvised stories about a group of characters.

Each person at the table controls the actions of one of the main characters in the story, and a set of rules are used (often in conjunction with dice as a randomizing agent) to determine the success of the character's actions.

Usually one person, instead of controlling a single character, is in charge of orchestrating the rest of the world: the environment and people and challenges the main characters encounter.

Resting in Shade

Yep. I'm familiar with the concept.

I've done a few really detailed boardgames that were comparable

but I've never actually had a dungeon crawl myself.

I think I'd get the hang of it pretty quick if allowed to ask a question here and there.

BESW

The modern RPG culture is moving toward niche game systems that cater to telling a specific kind of story, rather than systems which try to be useful for EVERY possible game you might want to play.

Resting in Shade

THAT is interesting, what are the kinds of niches that you come across?

BESW

(The systems I'm using these days don't use a map and minis at all.)

@RestinginShade Well, niches come in two basic flavours: setting and theme.

So you get systems like Fate Core which can be used with nearly any setting--fantasy, sci-fi, historical drama, whatever--so long as the stories are about competent, proactive characters whose lives are filled with tough decisions that have meaningful consequences.

Or you get systems like Eclipse Phase, which is designed for a very specific future-dystopia setting and uses rules about cyborg and genetic modification to explore the meaning of humanity by telling tense, gruesome over-the-top stories about characters whose humanity is increasingly in question.

Resting in Shade

This dovetails very nicely into my interests in writing.

BESW

6:27 AM

There's a game about being the henchmen of a Hammer Horror Film type mad scientist or vampire villain, and slowly gaining the conviction of your humanity to lead an overthrow of your Master (or falling into despair and becoming a Master yourself).

There are also games which are just about hacking and slashing and having a good old gory time looting a dungeon full of goblins, without worrying about the morality of goblin-killing or the impact of treasure-based economies on the social hierarchy.

Resting in Shade

now you're just having fun

BESW

@RestinginShade Some games lend themselves to enacting pre-designed stories, but many are more about collaboratively improvising stories about the characters as the game progresses.

None are better or worse intrinsically, but we get a lot of people on the site who are having trouble because part of the group is playing for one kind of experience, while the rest of the group thinks it's playing a different kind of game.

RPGs are excellent microcosms for learning about group communication and the pitfalls of assuming shared expectations.

Brant

I’m only just dipping my toes into tabletop RPGs by joining a Pathfinder group (we’re doing the Skulls & Shackles campaign, yarrr!) but so far it’s been pretty fun.

BESW

@Brant Cool. My college RPG group moved to Pathfinder shortly after I left them, because D&D 3.5 was winding down and they wanted to stay with a 3.5-like system that was still "alive."

Resting in Shade

Pathfinder?

Brant

6:33 AM

Pathfinder : D&D :: MariaDB : MySQL

BESW

@RestinginShade Pathfinder is a particular RPG system which took up the mantle of the D&D 3rd-Edition system when the D&D designers moved on to D&D Fourth Edition (and many of the 3.5 players didn't like 4e).

Pathfinder is very much like Dungeons and Dragons 3.5, so it scooped up the people who wanted to keep playing 3.5 but also wanted to keep having new content for it that they could buy.

The system is focused very much on physical combat mechanics. It has a LOT of fiddly bits and encourages perusing great long lists of features you can mix and match in order to create a customised character.

In D&D and systems inspired by it, character creation is almost a minigame in its own right.

Moving to my tablet for a while, typing is gonna slow down.

Resting in Shade

hmm. all my past experience has been with forum based play-by-post type games

BESW

PbP is not something I've got any firsthand experience with. I understand it's a rather different beast, though the fundamental concept is similar.

But then, there's such a wide range of RPGs out there that it's hard to make blanket statements.

Every few years a system comes out which causes people to debate whether or not it's "really" an RPG at all.

You've seen Roll for Shoes; I remember a time when I thought 75 pages was a remarkably small system (Dungeons & Dragons editions usually require between 700 and 900 pages to cover their core manuals).

[cough] Sorry, I ramble.

Resting in Shade

6:52 AM

Your fine

Id probably have to get back into php first before moving into hard tabletop

BESW

If you'd like to see chat transcripts of games we've played, I can point you to some--most of them are us trying out games we've never played before, so they're a bit fumbly but they also mean there's a lot of talking about the rules.

(Makes it easier to follow along if you don't know the game.)

@RestinginShade Depends on the system and the group, I'd say. A good group willing to work with a new player can make even the most complex system easy to learn, and many systems aren't that hard.

(In my experience, it's the people who are new to RPGs who are the most fun to play with because they have no prejudice about what is or isn't possible. People who have played a lot of, say, D&D, tend to think in D&D-specific channels.)

Resting in Shade

sure

shoot me towards some transcripts. I've been looking through PbP sites the last few minutes and I've just been reminded how much of a preteen dominated field that is.

BESW

(Full disclosure, after seven+ years in D&D I'm weary of its tropes and a little bitter about the flaws it pretends to not have.)

@RestinginShade Heheh. One moment.

Resting in Shade

Methinks it would be a little weird to be the 21 year old in the 15-18 year old forum.

I get tired of wish fulfillment RPs quickly. There needs to be a dungeon master to give a directed conflict, otherwise it all becomes a circle jerk pretty quickly.

BESW

This is at my fingertips because we just did it two days ago: A demo run of Do: Pilgrims of the Flying Temple. Do is unusual because a) it uses stones instead of dice as the randomisation element; b) the results of each turn are explicitly "one sentence about what happens;" and c) there is no game-master in charge of the non-player-character parts of the world.

The Fate game room chat's conversation page has a LOT of game sessions.

(They're all using the Fate Accelerated Edition system, and the earliest sessions are using the beta version of that system before it was finalised and published.)

And this transcript contains the first Roll for Shoes game we ever played, and I think another one after that.

@RestinginShade I'm currently working on designing a game (my first time trying, so I'm very halting about it) without a game master, kind of like Do where the conflict is determined by the randomisation element and the group collaborates to define it. In Do, when your character does something good you get to narrate it... but when your character gets in trouble, the other players work together to narrate it.

Oh, and if you ever find yourself with a couple free hours and my time matches up too, I'd be happy to run a session for you.

(Probably Roll for Shoes, it's the easiest to get going spontaneously in a chat environment, but FAE and Do are also possible.)

lisardggY

7:58 AM

...and there is a lot of text in the room. I believe I will not read through it. :)

BESW

You are wise.

Basically, we talked about polymorph and then we talked about the Stack and then we talked about various RPGs and their niches.

lisardggY

In that case, I fully support and endorse any and all claims with which I agree.

2

BESW

@lisardggY And the first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club.

lisardggY

@BESW Damn. I was hoping you would say something about tautologies so I could whip out that line.

BESW

[gloat]

lisardggY

8:08 AM

I need to start working on my cyberpunk talk.

It's in two months, but I am familiar with my propensity for procrastination, so I should start collecting materials.

BESW

Hmm. I'm curious but unsure if/when such skills would ever be useful to me.

lisardggY

Which?

BESW

Cyberpunk talk.

lisardggY

Ah. :)

I'm giving a lecture on "Cyberpunk for the 21st century" at a scifi con.

BESW

Shiny. Will there be a YouTube later?

lisardggY

8:13 AM

Perhaps. Some lectures are recorded.

It will be in Hebrew, though.

BESW

That would make it harder to glean from.

lisardggY

For some, I suppose, yes, for some.

The Oracle

0

Q: Retag [sr4.matrix] to [sr4-matrix]

Can we make sr4.matrix a synonym of sr4-matrix, creating the latter in the process? (Or just retag all the sr4.matrix questions) The former doesn't follow our tag convention. There is no reason it uses the dot, other than at some point a bunch of tags used the dot and now they don't. (Turns out ...

doppelgreener

\o/

Brian did it before the Oracle even had a chance to post it

lisardggY

The Fastest Moderator in the West.

Lord_Gareth

10:02 AM

@lisardggY Y'know, this tickles my funny bone. Like, I absolutely understand why it's in Hebrew, but the culture of the town I live in takes that language super seriously and would be shocked to hear that someone was 'blaspheming' it with such talk.

Kansas, man

lisardggY

10:36 AM

@Lord_Gareth Blaspheming against cyberpunk?

Oh, I see. Hebrew as a consecrated tongue?

BESW

12:07 PM

Oh, Blade TV show, I love you.

Two vampires go game-face and prepare to battle to the death when avman enters the room with a gun. The man is already losing.

doppelgreener

12:51 PM

@BESW what is an avman?

BESW

1:04 PM

"A man" on tablet thumb typing.

doppelgreener

oh x)

doppelgreener

1:40 PM

Thing I wish more services had: Emailing or texting me to confirm my identity when I log in.

That would be really nice on the services that handle my money and etc.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs So long as it's opt-in.

When I was living in the southern end of the island, text-confirmation logins basically meant I couldn't use a service at all.

lisardggY

2:11 PM

I started copy-editing the "single player rpg" question but gave up three minutes in.

Mostly because there are two different issues there - the spelling and grammar is one, the fact that it's two questions rolled into one is another - and I don't feel like fixing #1 only to have it closed because of #2.

Phil

0

Q: singel player rp games

hello im new to this place i thought it looked kinder cool so i sinded up i have a two part question singel player rp/ye oldly feel card games i know theres alot of people out there who will look at this and have a brake down cos theres no such thing tecnicly as a singel player rp game im not lo...

system-agnostic

I don't even know where to start

Alex P

@lisardggY Do you mind if I ask you a quick question about Jewish customs? It's the kind of thing that's pretty simple but I just don't know how to actually research it. (For a historical-based game we're playing.)

doppelgreener

2:28 PM

@Phil [starts by voting to close as unclear...]

Phil

a good plan

RedRiderX

@Phil oh my

doppelgreener

wait, it might be a dupe of something

Phil

@JonathanHobbs I think you're right

lisardggY

3:17 PM

@AlexP Go ahead.

Alex P

3:31 PM

@lisardggY During a traditional Jewish burial, is it permitted to bury personal mementos with the deceased?

lisardggY

@AlexP Hmm. Good questions. As far as I know, the bodies are just wrapped in shrouds and put in the ground. There's no coffin to put things in anyway, and I don't remember hearing about anyone taking something to the grave.

Alex P

@lisardggY Is the use of a light wooden coffin a recent thing, then?

lisardggY

@AlexP I think it's practiced mostly by Jews in Christian countries, to fit in with the common burial practices.

In Israel bodies are only wrapped.

Alex P

Cool. Thanks for explaining.

lisardggY

This implies that some countries have laws requiring coffins of some sort.

Also, it seems to reinforce my thoughts about mementos - discouraged.

Also cremation is against religious law, as is mentioned there. There was a crematorium that opened up in Israel a few years ago, trying to give non-observant jews the option. Somewhat ironically, it burned down.

(Not by accident, though. Arson)

Alex P

3:38 PM

@lisardggY Oh, ouch.

lisardggY

@AlexP Religiously motivated arson, at that.

afk. baby needs food badly.

Alex P

Thanks!

Zachiel

5:11 PM

@AlexP so, the site does not care if a campaign gets ruined. Legit, I say.

Alex P

@Zachiel What?

Zachiel

5:25 PM

@AlexP My comment on that guy asking where to look for optimized builds for his playmates, which I think we discussed togheter here in the chat, has been burninated.

I agree with the reasons of the burnination, I also feel like that group is possibly exploding and I can do nothing to prevent it.

lisardggY

5:54 PM

Yeah, I kinda disagree that our mandate, as a site, is only to answer the given question and ignore all implied context.

(I think the fact that the XY problem is expressly mentioned in the FAQ is an indication that the StackExchange ethos is not "just answer the question, regardless of if it gets the OP into trouble".

But I don't know if I'm up to opening the issue up on Meta.

Zachiel

@mxyzplk hi

mxyzplk

howdy

I can't find the meta post, but I'm pretty sure we have one about challenging the frame of a question. The basics are a) do it carefully, b) do it as part of a legitimate answer, c) don't be butthurt if you get voted down, in short

Zachiel

thinking hard on that question where you deleted my comment. I fully understand why - this is not your usual forum and all but... mhhhh dunno, still looks a dangerous thing to do for that user. I'd like to have him in the chat to talk about it but maybe my ideas would pass as intrusive

mxyzplk

6:10 PM

right. providing a legit answer gives you the "right" to do some criticizing, however.

lisardggY

Seems like a fair compromise.

mxyzplk

we have to keep a hard line on that otherwise every question gets littered with comments about why the OP is wrong to even be... thinking about doing that, playing that game system, etc etc

I really should delete that other comment too, because "but some people don't like charop" is true but a comment that could be unhelpfully applied to every single charop question ever

done!

lisardggY

There's still a different between a question going "I want to charop" getting a "I don't like charop!", and between "I want to charop some other players' character and I haven't given any indication they're on board".

mxyzplk

I agree with the sentiments, is the bitch of it, so I'd be happy to see a valid answer that goes on to say "optimization isn't necessarily a good idea and your players may be perfectly happy etc"

well, that's a little stretch from what he says in the question - if you want clarification on whether he's looking to optimize their characters for them (unlikely) or wants the info to present to them (more likely) feel free, not sure it changes the question or answers

Zachiel

I guess that's the problem with the format, then.

mxyzplk

6:16 PM

One should read questions with a little charity based on lack of full understanding of the context.

@Zachiel Ha, I think you mean to say virtue of the format. Because I can't f'ing stand ENWorld, RPGnet, Paizo forums, etc. as they are full of shouting idiots

lisardggY

@mxyzplk I think @Zachiels comments were exactly that, asking for that clarification. Maybe they needed clarification of their own. :)

mxyzplk

Shrug. if from what he said you truly think it's likely he's going to go change character builds out from under them sure, but IMO an even mildly sensible reading of the Q does not support that.

might as well say he wants the info to go plagarize it in print, or other nefarious ends

lisardggY

Maybe it's just my personal sensitivity to charop guys telling non-optimizers they're "playing it wrong".

mxyzplk

well that's the real risk here, not that he's going to alter their characters without consent, but that he's going to send a group down the op path when they would probably be happier without it. Again, I'd love to see critique to that effect within a legitimate answer.

my personal feelings that charop is 50% or more of the problem with D&D/Pathfinder are well documented.

but mod hat ruthlessly enforces the format, personal hat tells people they're munchkins in chat

:-P

Zachiel

@mxyzplk If I was a ENWorld or RPnet usual user, I'd probably be throwing insults at that guy for trying to do those things I've asked about. I mean, there's a whole spectrum of not being in this format and you just took the worst part of it IMHO.

lisardggY

6:23 PM

Lord_Gareth's recounting of his experiences in other RP forums is more than enough to keep me far, far away.

mxyzplk

@Zachiel I'm not blaming you, I'm saying on this site we restrict frame challenges to answers/

Zachiel

@mxyzplk No blaming was ever supposed to start with.

mxyzplk

Sure.

Just popped in and explained the policy

lisardggY

It's appreciated.

mxyzplk

hugs to all

Phil

6:32 PM

all seems fair enough - I can understand why they require the kinds of comments I wrote to be included as part of a legitimate answer

Zachiel

Glad we had this talk, whoever brought mxyzplk in

mxyzplk

Oh I was just wandering by while watching the olympics

Hey I have also put in a model answer along the lines we discussed

0

A: 5th level optimized Fighter/Ranger builds for 3.5/Pathfinder

The best overall source for Pathfinder character guides is Zenith Games' Comprehensive Pathfinder Classes Guide, which links to multiple Fighter and Ranger op guides with sample builds. For builds in general, Paizo's NPC Codex is one of the best books ever and has a bunch of interesting fighter a...

i dub it the "iron fist in the velvet glove" approach

:-)

Phil

6:48 PM

[bows down to worship the common sense of @mxyzplk]

mxyzplk

lol

just tryin to lead by example

Pureferret

7:13 PM

Evening all

The Oracle

0

Q: How do we handle a desire to challenge the frame of a question?

Sometimes, someone asks a question that seems like it might suffer from the XY Problem (asking about your attempted solution instead of your actual problem) and you want to point that out. Or, you just strongly disagree with something they're doing as revealed in the question and wish to challen...

discussion questions

mxyzplk

I can't find where we provided guidance on that so figured I'd get a meta Q on record

Discipol

7:48 PM

hey peoples

any pathfinder experts around?

Alex P

I've honestly never had a problem getting my own "Mu" answers to go over well. I'm not sure I can really define why, beyond just "Go out of your way to discuss the original concern in detail even if you think the overall underlying approach is wrong."

Pureferret

8:09 PM

Is brian ever around these days?

lisardggY

On Chat? Not much.

Lord_Gareth

9:48 PM

@lisardggY Word

BESW

11:15 PM

@mxyzplk Thank you, this addresses the heart of a problem I was unable to properly define last year.

Transcript for