TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:02

Back in about ten minutes.

BESW

00:15

@KRyan Maybe you could contribute some ideas to re-writing the question for more productive answers?

Simon Gill

Works for me.

BESW

I feel it's a tad defensive.

Simon Gill

Also, uurgh, trying to argue in comments is a bad idea.

@BESW There is an element of pre-emptive argument towards the existing answers... but I'm not sure there's any way to channel people away from the "Do it when somebody thinks about" answers.

BESW

"What table-level game policy decisions, that will define the experience of the group and determine if it’s the kind of game the group wants to play, should the group consult on before or during city creation?"

Simon Gill

Not sure what you're asking by quoting that.

BESW

00:21

Ummm.

Do you think the italics are useful?

Simon Gill

No, they are too much emphasis in an emphasised paragraph.

BESW

00:57

I'm tempted to side with SSD on the gnome thing.

Gnome in a duct = OH GOD OH GOD.

Simon Gill

@BESW He's got a point - but there should be more than "Fists vs. Fists with penalty" going on there.

A Precarious Position aspect that makes you fall if you get hit, for instance.

BESW

Oh, I'm not really thinking about the falling damage bit. That's too situational to be useful.

But the idea of a gnome maneuvering (whether in the mechanical sense of the term I'm not sure) for advantage...

Simon Gill

@BESW Yeah - that would be it. He'd have to work around his Wee disadvantage, which is kinda the point.

Setting traps, picking up a gun (I mean, resting a gun on some books and yanking the trigger), etc.

But the moment he's forced to rely on just his claws - he's screwed.

BESW

I'm thinking if the gnome can convince you to get Crammed in a Duct as an Aspect, he should be able to ignore Wee for free.

Simon Gill

@BESW Invoking for effect, yeah, I can see that.

BESW

01:03

[face/palm] Now I've got this image of John McClane fighting off gnomes in a duct.

Simon Gill

Costs him a FATE point - of course.

BESW

@SimonGill The gnome?

Can you use a tag to invoke for effect?

Simon Gill

Yeah.

@BESW Or that :)

BESW

Would that invoke for effect last for one attack, or for the duration of the Crammed in a Duct aspect?

Simon Gill

@BESW Just one roll (he could also use the free tag for a defense). You can compel it to stop him moving fast too.

wax eagle

01:56

sweet, finally got my ghostscript wrapper working, and it makes me wonder if a .net native implementation of ghostscript would be worth writing...

Simon Gill

@waxeagle I'm surprised there isn't one already.

Phil

02:12

@BESW That policies question is fascinating as someone who is also trying to get their head around Dresden RPG

BESW

@Phil Glad to hear it! Is there... anything you can suggest for how to get better answers?

I've totally re-written it to try and make it clear that it's not an XY problem.

Phil

@BESW Tricky. I think perhaps the disconnect between what you want as an answer (and the way you've phrased the question), and the answers you have got so far might be because GMs/players familiar with FATE and Dresden in particular believe there is no hard and fast answer. The general feeling I get is that the entire concept of even having to agree something at the start is foreign and unnecessary

BESW

....Which would be why I specifically phrased this as building on explicit ideas from the manual....

Phil

Yep

Simon Gill

@Phil The struggle seems to be in defining the questions that need to be talked about.

BESW

02:19

Even FATE Core (which is a lot less crunchy than DFRPG) talks about making sure everyone agrees on things like "the scope of the game."

Phil

and I think that is because there might be no definitive answer

BESW

Sure, it's gonna be good subjective/bad subjective. I know that, and I tried to make the question encourage good subjective.

Phil

because it could be everything or it could be nothing

and everything in between

BESW

That's actually why my first attempt at the question put a lot more limiters on it: "What does the book say about this?"

Phil

How do you choose specific questions when the entire system is designed to be run by consensus?

BESW

02:21

But that was interpreted as being beholden to RAW and the "GM mystique."

@Phil It's an issue of which consensuses should be reached before play.

Phil

and we come back round to my feeling that there isn't a set answer to that.

BESW

That subset of topics which fall into "Let's get this out of the way because it commonly causes problems if we let it sit around unanswered."

Phil

For some groups it might be masses of stuff, for others it might be absolutely nothing

BESW

Right, but there's got to be common ground based on the experience of the SE members that I can tap into.

Phil

I'm not sure there are enough people with a wide enough experience on the site to give you sufficient data to get that common ground

BESW

02:27

Alas.

Phil

I suspect it might be a better question to be asked on specialist forums, where discussion can be had

BESW

But there is experience.

And even if it's not enough for a statistically significant sample, there must be some way to ask the question that gets "This is what my group did, here's how it worked, here's what I'll do differently next time" instead of "You'll know it when you see it, l2p."

Phil

maybe you should put that quote in your question :) It seems to sum up what you are after

BESW

Also, I feel like a person should be able to ask a FATE-related question without explicitly saying "I know group consultation is the source of FATE's power."

Phil

true

BESW

02:32

It's like if every time a 3.5 question didn't say that the guy knows how the 1d20+mod mechanic is central to the system, all the answers would just explain that.

...sorry. I'm feeling bitter that in asking a question about how to better facilitate the FATE philosophy, I have to defend my awareness that the philosophy exists. It's a barrier to welcoming people into the system that I think posters need to be aware of and work to tear down.

Phil

Hmm, let me give it some thought. I only popped on for a bit - I'll see if I can suggest something in the morning.

BESW

Perhaps @Magician might want to consider this as part of his essay series.

Phil

night

BESW

Thanks.

G'night.

Magician

Hmmm?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

02:40

@Magician mmmmm

Simon Gill

@Magician @BESW wanted you to look at this question and see if it would help your essay series - rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/21816/…

Magician

I see, thanks. It appears to have changed significantly since last I've seen it. And chat covers why...

Simon Gill

Yeah, it changed just a little bit.

Magician

@BESW You may want to take a look here: bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool

BESW

It is the ongoing saga of a D&D-habitualized GM trying to ask for advice on using a new system, and being told that he doesn't understand the system.

Magician

02:46

and either use it as is, or as basis for your discussion

Hehe, there is a certain degree of snobism in the hobby, directed both at "D&D primitives" and at "story-game sissies".

Simon Gill

@Magician That reads totally different to me. D&D Primitives sounds more like the basic building blocks of D&D.

That Same Page Tool looks very useful.

Magician

It really does. I'm about to use it for the first time this week :)

BESW

04:03

@SimonGill D&D Primitives sounds like Dark Sun halflings.

Magician

It's a heretical sect that still generates stats with 3d6 in order.

BESW

I know a guy who would probably find that appealing.

His group still thinks 2e was too radical a shift, and developed their own % tables for the stages of elven pregnancy.

Magician

Oh, I can see the appeal, for a very specific game.

@BESW Wow

BESW

Because elven trimesters were that important to the game.

Simon Gill

@BESW How many elves got pregnant?

BESW

04:08

One, I believe? I kinda only paid half attention after the PC became the physical manifestation of a god that didn't exist.

Simon Gill

mmm, something in my head just went ping. Hope it wasn't important.

BESW

Yeeeah.

Novian

05:42

Downside to playing a Level 1 Wizard. If you can only cast like 3 1st level spells and 2 of them are Power Word Pain you better not fight undead.

otherwise you might as well turn tail and run.

Especially when you are in a group of two and you had already exausted your acid Spash and were running out of Sheild (the spell.) duration.

BESW

Is anyone else having trouble with the site?

Novian

What Kind of trouble

Magician

@BESW works fine for me.

BESW

Not loading kind of trouble.

Novian

Havnt noticed anything.

Simon Gill

06:59

I've been playing games and watching TV. No problems here.

BESW

08:12

Maybe the policy question should be system-agnostic?

I really want to get @KRyan in here and pick his brain about why he wants an answer to the question.

26 upvotes on the Q and 9 on his comment tell me that there's something in there which people want to see brought out.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

10:56

@BESW I and the rest of my group would be that kind of guy. :P

We don't care much for imbalance and carry the handicapped characters if need be.

And we all still have lots of fun. Even the handicapped one.

Rob

Which question?

BESW

That's cool. I ran a 3.5 group with a very similar attitude for some time.

26

Q: What policies should be made at the start of a campaign, to define the desired game experience and avoid bad feelings later?

My group and I work on the assumption that a game system's default assumptions are its manifesto, and that by choosing a system we are choosing to let its assumptions stand except where we institute explicit house rules to the contrary (which we feel free to do as necessary). I'm talking about f...

Rob

Thanks :)

BESW

I have spent all day trying to make this get actual answers. I've got another edit in the brain, but haven't written anything yet.

Rob

Ooooo nice 'un

BESW

10:59

I think I need to KISS and rewrite.

@Rob Thanks.

Rob

You've bolded the main point/question - which I've started doing to get people to the question I want answered

BESW

26 upvotes indicates to me that people feel there are productive positive answers to be had.

But the people who have provided answers provide negative answers along the lines of "Stop trying to learn how to play and just play."

Rob

The PF game I'm playing at the moment is the first one I've ever played with a "social contract" and I really think it helped.

BESW

(When I say "negative," I mean in the "absence" sense rather than the "bad" sense.)

Rob

I'm gerning up to an answer

BESW

11:05

@William'MindWorX'Mariager I think there's a difference between not caring about imbalance (which is cool if the whole group gets it), being upset about imbalance (which is really just going to give you an ulcer), and reveling in imbalance (which... I can't really understand, but whatever floats your boat).

@Rob I await it eagerly!

If it helps, I'm considering re-writing the question drastically. [grin]

Same basic premise, but specifically asking for action/reflection/planning answers.

(I did X, the result was Y, in the future I will change Z and leave A the same)

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@BESW We're definitely the first kind of group. We try to focus on having fun, and avoid all the balance issues. A large part of my players stem from a group that has been playing Draker och Demoner wrong for years. I'm slowly easing them into something more controlled. But I think the time spent playing something, in my opinion, stupid, has helped them see past rules and balance, and make them just appreciate the fun.

I've tried playing with the last kind of group too. That was kinda unsettling. Which showed me that there's far and wide between how people like to play their games.

Rob

I might wait for the rewrite; my answer is bubbling along the lines of expectations, content, disaster management, time commitment and house rules...

Also out of game contributions

BESW

@William'MindWorX'Mariager I once joined a 3.5 game that ignored racial HD when calculating ECL.

@William'MindWorX'Mariager And I once ran a game in which each PC had some fundamental flaw which made him nearly unplayable.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@BESW Sounds like pleasant encounters. :P

BESW

@William'MindWorX'Mariager It kind of meant "Roll a hill giant or go home."

The dwarven bard's intelligent bagpipes refused to play unless drunk, which meant they were also wet. The wizard could only target spells by hitting people with imbued arrows, which made for fun party buffing. The ranger was raised by wolves and knew a number of words equal to twice his Int score.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

11:15

@BESW There's something lovely about those kinds of games. As long as players like it too. :P

BESW

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Of course! Each player lovingly crafted his dysfunctional character for maximum fail.

"No, I swear. Let me stab you with this arrow and you'll feel a lot better."

Rob

:) Failing is an art form

@BESW I had a cleric of a war god whose focus was a dagger; whenever they healed someone they stabbed them. Heal d8 Damage d4. Usually the d4 was higher ;)

BESW

"Ge' back, ye poin'y-eared freak! Ah've got enow trouble soberin' oop me instrumen'!"

@Rob There is an actual 3.5 weapon enchant that has 3/day cure light wounds on a hit.

Rob

@BESW Haha! Excellent :)

BESW

It's supposed to be for hunters of undead, so if they make a mistake it's less likely to be lethal but if they're right it hurts more.

But when I dropped one, my party took one look at it and said "Torture implement. Gotta be."

Rob

11:21

Oh I have to share the genius of our druid player last night;
Our party got attacked by a Wyvern and the gnome druid was bitten by it and was about to be swallowed; so he cast "Create Water" down the Wyverns throat (8 gallons) and it projectile vomited him out.

BESW

Nice!

Reminds me of the cleric who was suffocating in a bag of holding... so he cast create water and water breathing.

Rob

Oh very cunning :)

BESW

He cunned himself right out of the campaign that day, actually.

The whole party was falling about 500 miles through an elemental plane of air, with a rough landing promised at the bottom.

The cleric got into his bag of holding, all but his head, and banished himself.

Rob

Bizarre

BESW

A bag of holding with a head sticking out of it popped into existence ten feet above the ground in the square of his home village on the material plane, falling at terminal velocity. It hit hard enough that he fell all the way into the bag and it closed up, trapping him.

Water breathing gave him enough time for someone to walk past and peer inside the bag, whereupon a sopping wet cleric burst out.

Rob

11:25

~applause~

BESW

However, he had no way to return to the party's plane of existence and expected they were all dead from the fall anyway, so the character had effectively banished himself from the campaign.

Rob

Oh dear :)

BESW

@Rob That.... sounds like something I'd really like to see.

Rob

?

BESW

28 mins ago, by Rob

I might wait for the rewrite; my answer is bubbling along the lines of expectations, content, disaster management, time commitment and house rules...

Rob

11:39

Ah righty :)

BESW

Yeah, I don't even know yet if I can edit the thing productively again.

...Or if my current edit was productive....

Rob

12:15

HrmmmMmmm that goes for an answer, more ideas rather than something full....

May end up deleting it

BESW

Thanks! [runs to read]

Hmmm. Now I have a whole new tangential question to write!

Rob

heh

BESW

Something about "example" or "introductory" encounters.

Rob

Done that for a few more esoteric games; really helped people understand what to expect

Including myself

BESW

I've tried it, and I like the idea as a GM.

Rob

12:24

Right, gym time, adios for a bit

BESW

Aight, ta!

BESW

12:37

Maybe "Important pre-game social contract topics" would be a better theme.

BESW

12:53

Haruum. I'm thinking about including links to other social contract questions.

But I'm afraid that would derail the conversation back into "FATE hates rules" territory.

Magician

13:14

I've just written a 2100+ word essay in one sitting, on transplanting narrativism and other tasty things into absolutely any RPG system. Would anyone care to read it before I post, and tell me if I'm insane?

BESW

@Magician I think I can tell you that without reading it, but sure, I'll bite.

Magician

Eeexcellent. magbonch.wordpress.com/?p=351&shareadraft=511105efc277f

BESW

What kind of feedback are you looking for?

Magician

Whatever you're prepared to give. Am I being coherent? Does the proposed system sound at all worthwhile? Are there glaring omissions in it?

wax eagle

@SimonGill I was quite surprised myself. But everything I found was "here's how to implement a wrapper"

BESW

13:26

@Magician I think it's a cool idea, but will quickly become mired in questions about at what level the GM's decisions should fall into the system.

Nearly everything a GM does that isn't absolutely transparent (basically, rolling a die in the open with a known modifier against a known target number) could be called a Proposition.

Magician

It could be. The idea (which clearly wasn't communicated well enough) was to use this only for important events, things that shape the story.

BESW

I got that, but you're leaving the level of granularity open... and maybe too open? I'm not sure.

I can see some players I've had extrapolating it to death.

Magician

More recommendations on that, gotcha. Though in part it is meant to be open, up to individual group to determine

Circling all the way back to your DF question ;)

BESW

I've run with some people who push to destruction if someone doesn't show them exactly where the line is and push them back when they cross it.

@Magician Yeah, I figured you left it open on purpose and I applaud the idea.

@Magician I did get some vibes there.

Magician

@BESW Well, in this case it is up to the GM to draw the line by posing the Questions and making Propositions. The traditional mode of "shit happens to you" is still there.

And because players are limited in Story points, they can't just spam Propositions.

I'll have to think on how to phrase this better. Definitely holding off on posting until I've had a good night's sleep and a chance to read it on fresh head.

BESW

13:34

I'm also a little concerned that the system is very susceptible to powerful personalities.

Not that any RPG system isn't, but....

Magician

@BESW Oh, very much so. Hence the optional limitation on spending Story points

BESW

Actually, that's not what I was thinking.

As someone who has turned a powerful personality into a competitive edge on more than one occasion (I was a very successful multiplayer in M:tG), I guarantee you that whoever is best able to persuade and manipulate the group will wind up having their vision of the system be dominant.

Not through making propositions, but through challenging and analysing them.

Magician

Mmmm. Yes. That's what happens when you let players be directors, though. I don't see a way around that.

BESW

Specifically, a GM choice can be turned into a proposition with a little pressure, earning undeserved story points for the group.

Magician

Ok, but what are they going to spend them on? They'll answer the Questions (great), then use them to resolve conflicts to their satisfaction (also good). This is not such a bad thing, I think. Though it does remain to be seen.

BESW

13:40

@Magician I'm thinking about the way FATE limits invocations to Aspects. If there's some kind of way to delimit the target of a proposition....

Magician

Another paragraph further elaborating on when to award Story points, and how many players should have is clearly needed...

@BESW except it is by design high-level to the point of omnipotence. It is not what happens to a given character, it is what happens to the story, wherever that may be.

BESW

@Magician Then I'm going to Propose an epic wizard we're best buddies with, because we helped him with something I Proposed, and a few levels later naturally it's reasonable to Propose that he help us fight the Big Bad ten levels lower than him....

@Magician Right, the "target" needs to be a meta-level construct.

Okay, here's a silly idea that might get you thinking of better ones.

Magician

@BESW The GM, as one of the players, can always refuse a Proposition if they think it's a bad idea. And if they were to allow this (because, hey, the player clearly wants to experience this story), that'd be a boring story in which the player gets an easy undeserved win... and learns not to make such stories in the future.

@BESW shoot :)

BESW

Two layers of player agency: proposing Questions and providing Answers.

@Magician Heh. I've seen that kind of "gaming the system" high last for years in the right personality. It's about expressing supremacy over the system and the group.

Anyway, Questions and Answers.

A player may propose Questions, just like the GM can.

If the player asks a Question, they revoke the right to Propose an Answer to it; they have come up with the scenario and it is up to the others to resolve it.

In this system, the GM might actually be given a limited store of Story Points. The game is run as normal, but anyone--GM or player--can Ask Questions which everyone except the Asker can then answer.

Magician

@BESW I think that goes into the territory of GM-less games. Which this system skirts, but doesn't quite enter.

BESW

13:48

Yeah, I'm more explicitly dropping the opportunity for GMless plot development into a GM'd system.

I'd probably have Asking award a point, and Answering cost a point; you have to be starting scenarios in order to conclude them.

Magician

Something along the lines of... each player has a pool of points. There are some pre-agreed on setting details to provide a common background. Players propose questions, and when another player answers them they give the asker their story point.

@BESW Heh, similar thoughts

BESW

Yup, that works!

I'm envisioning the party going along, and say... just before the treasury door is opened, someone (the GM or a player) says "I want to ASK what is behind the door."

Magician

Of course, by that point you may as well discard the idea of characters mapping to players

BESW

Then everyone else talks and decides the ANSWER before the door is opened.

Bad example, I think, but yeah.

Better would be, "I want to ASK what is not in the treasury that should be there," like your example.

Anyway, the goal with this is to get your juices flowing, not for me to hash out my own system.

Rob

You guys tried microscope yet, all this collaborative questioning....

BESW

13:54

I'm awful at that. I never think of all the fiddly bits properly.

Magician

@BESW Nah, good example, because it already illustrates problems: what if several players want to Ask similar questions? And if they collectively answer it, which one pays the Asker a point? Something ponder further...

BESW

@Rob Haven't gotten my hands on it. As much as I love the idea of this stuff, my group isn't really ready yet.

@Magician Yes, a system that encourages consultation would be radical.

But applying mechanics to consultation is.... probably going to suck the spirit out of it.

Magician

@Rob I tried an early version, and it lacked drama too much for us. If you know how all the events turn out, there's little point in playing them out. That could have been changed up in a later version, I wouldn't know.

Anyways. Thanks for feedback, I'll think about incorporating it... Tomorrow :)

BESW

Link back when you publish!

Rob

@BESW It's very doable as a one-shot

BESW

13:59

@Rob We ran Dawn of Worlds a couple years ago and found it... lackluster? Didn't click.

KRyan

@BESW I'm interested because I think it says a lot about the system in general and because it's a system I've been wanting to run and thus those are the questions I'd like to ask to start with. It's a question of setting and system that interests me

Magician

@BESW Will do, though it probably won't change too much, just elaborated on

KRyan

I don't really have a lot of suggestions; I don't understand why people have had trouble 'getting it'

BESW

At the moment my group is about to be too small for a lot of the intraparty dynamics that make that sort of activity work.

@KRyan Do you think my re-write is helpful, or at least not harmful, to 'getting it'?

@KRyan And thanks! It means a lot that you and Simon have been going to bat for me. I'd be a lot more dejected and bitter about the "Just play right" answers otherwise.

KRyan

@BESW I think it's quite good, particularly the Edit to clarify position bit

Cthos's answer seems pretty OK

I mean, it doesn't give you the full thing, but he's right about his thinking

BESW

14:04

yeah, his answer definitely helped me get that edit into shape.

KRyan

mm, and Rob's answer is good too

BESW

Yes, if a bit general.

KRyan

right

BESW

If he had more FATE or DFRPG specific suggestions, I'd be all over that checkmark.

It's a weird question. I know that.

KRyan

it's actually maybe bordering somewhat on a list question

BESW

14:09

It's about the social contract (I should add that tag), and it's setting-specific, and in a system with a lot of confusion because it's kinda out-there already, and the general system doesn't like specific answers but the campaign manual is crunchier than the system it uses....

KRyan

but because it's restricting itself primarily to Your Story, it seems answerable

yeah, social-contract is a good idea

anyway, gotta get going

bye

BESW

Thanks! Ta.

Magician

@BESW ok, made 2 small changes based on your feedback. In Story Points: "During the course of the game the GM should endeavor to provide the players with a number of Story points at least equal to the number of Questions she asks. Players, in turn, should endeavor to get most of those points by accepting GM's proposals."
And in FAQ: "Should the GM make a Proposition every time they introduce a new element? Nope! Not every new element is an important hook that players may or may not accept. It is left entirely up to the GM. This is less of an issue with players, as they have a very limited s…

Would that cover it, at least to some extent?..

BESW

I think so.

Magician

Cool. Again, thank you!

BESW

14:17

My pleasure!

(It's nice to rub elbows with people I've cribbed from repeatedly.)

Magician

@BESW Hah. It's nice to find out someone's reading the damn thing :)

BESW

@Magician Admittedly mostly just flipping through and cherry-picking. [grin] I'm not a big Follower of RPG Blogs.

Okay. I added a couple lines about setting-specific and experience-based answers being coolest, and pointed out that I added the social-contract tag but not the rules tag.

Magician

@BESW I'll take it :P. Every now and then I see in the views history that someone's clearly reading through the whole archive. And they're always silent! Never leaving a comment, or like, or anything. Drives me nuts.

BESW

@Magician Heh, comments. I usually feel kinda self-conscious about that.

Magician

@BESW is there a "Most Edited Question" badge?

BESW

14:25

Hey, that's only my 5th edit!

I'm pretty sure I've edited other questions more....

Magician

@BESW most people do. And the ones that don't sometimes plainly don't get the post they comment on at all... Ah well. Them's the breaks for bloggers :P

BESW

It's also my most upvoted question, at nearly twice as many votes as the next one.

Magician

It is a good question. Sadly, I have nothing to contribute there: Fate is still on my list of "play some day" systems.

BESW

I usually feel like any comment I leave is either going to be "I would like to talk about myself," or "I have nothing to say but shall say it anyway."

Magician

Oh, I've suffered from something similar: "Interesting post, but you're wrong, and here's a link to my blog to prove it". I usually stop myself in time...

BESW

14:29

I talk about myself plenty already and do not need to provide the ego another gorging site.

And I don't want to be the verbose equivalent of the "FIRST!" guy either.

I've tried my hand at blogging a few times, and was always far too self-conscious and embarrassed to post regularly because I was too concerned that I only post Good Content Well Edited.

Magician

Well... Yeah. That's the reason my blog is not on the feed that pops up on top of the chat all the time. I can't be bothered making posts for the purpose of making posts for the purpose of meeting a quota. I'd much rather write when I have something to say.

That, and I'm lazy. Anyways... G'night!

BESW

G'night!

Rob

14:54

Meetings, gym, work... don't these people know I've got RPG's to talk about?

BESW

I know, right?

I don't want to go canvassing the island's photo and copy shops for a place that will scan my client's 35mm slides for a reasonable price while I wait.

wax eagle

@Rob lol

srsly

@BESW will a standard office flatbed not do that?

Rob

I mean, what's the gravity of delivering to clients compared to discussing how to make a kobold catapult? They just don't compare.

BESW

Good quality scans of transparencies need different support.

wax eagle

@Rob clients? what are those :P

Rob

14:59

@waxeagle Annoying, that's what!

wax eagle

@Rob I'm really rather thankful I never have to deal with clients. Working for corporate does have it's benefits sometimes

Rob

@waxeagle Generally I don't either, being a code monkey

wax eagle

@Rob I've literally coded 1 program for an external client in my 5 years here.

everything else is in house stuff

BESW

[self-employed]

Rob

@waxeagle What's your work bag then?

wax eagle

15:02

@Rob corporate intranet

basically a custom built enterprise system, project management, expensing, invoicing, purchasing, basically everything but payroll

all built on webforms :)

Rob

@waxeagle Sounds pretty spiffy

wax eagle

@Rob we manage to find enough work to keep 3 programmers gainfully employed :). Clients that have special requirements help. Invoicing our primary client requires a near complete rework of our invoicing system every couple of years :(

Rob

@BESW Also, can't give you more specifics on DFRPG, as never played it :)

@waxeagle Whoa, that's not fun!

BESW

@Rob Alas! It's an excellent general answer though.

Rob

Cheers; long as it gave you something to think about :)

wax eagle

15:09

@Rob cost of doing business with this client and when that business is 40% of your income you do what you have to do

Rob

@waxeagle Hell yeah for that much!

DForck42

16:58

OH HAI!

wax eagle

@DForck42 morning

DForck42

@waxeagle how're you?

wax eagle

@DForck42 doing all right.

DForck42

@waxeagle good

i've got a one shot dresden files to plan for wednesday, i'm gming

wax eagle

17:17

@DForck42 fun, I'm finishing up some 4e Chaos scar this weekend then we're supposed to head back to our main campaign next weekend

DForck42

@waxeagle neat

wax eagle

17:34

@DForck42 yep

you interested in joining the play by post game we're starting?

DForck42

@waxeagle when/where/how/what?

wax eagle

starting soon/chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/13/… /play be email/post/web forms (software depending) /En Garde!

DForck42

@waxeagle what do you mean by "starting soon"?

wax eagle

@DForck42 basically Brian has said that he's ready to start, so whenever he sends the emails we'll start the first turn cycle

but it's the kind of game where people can join en media res

DForck42

17:54

ok, how does that work, i've never done "play by post"

LitheOhm

20:47

@DForck42 very slowly, in my experience. Basically it's a forum where each of the players and the DM come in and post when it's convenient for them. If you've got people who are willing and able to drop in often, it can be fun. Otherwise it takes forever to do anything. The roleplay part of it was fun though: Outside of combat we could talk and chatter as much as we wanted to, and it was generally accepted that if others didn't speak up they weren't a part of the conversation yet

MadMAxJr

Often a very slow paced game, but you have a lot of time to ponder your choices.

BESW

21:55

redwombatstudio.com/blog/?p=5427

Novian

23:16

Still Pondering the merits of playing a wizard in the new campaign my group wants to start.

Its level 1 and in the test run my Warforged wizard didnt do so hot.

BESW

Casters take a little while to kick into high gear in 3.5.

Novian

Although that is most likley due to the fact that I had Prepped a few PWP,Sheild and Acid Splash and I was Fighting a zombie of some sort.

PWP doesnt work on zombies.

Great level 1 spell however.

I am also thinking of being an Abjurer Specialist. Dropping Necromancy and something else.

I dont want to Drop Enchantment or Transmutation.

Cant drop Divination.

Illusion is well....Illusion.

Evocation does have some meritable spells. but is otherwise meh.

Im forgetting something....

Does anyone have a link to a guide for wizards that shows substitution levels and other things?

nevermind I forgot I had one bookmarked.

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