@Sarov It's also opposed strongly by vets who decided that it's not worth the money to put a cat through all the issues associated with it; it's not illegal here yet, but the largest chain vets in the US don't do it and haven't for some time
@Sarov Hah, well of course it would be. Someone who prefers the profit won't oppose it, someone who prefers the welfare of the animal will. Both stand to make money from it, both are charged with giving the animal the optimal care, but each has chosen their side.
@AllisonC Not technically true. Someone who prefers the welfare but also doesn't see an issue with welfare will also not oppose it. I think you're making a false dichotomy, there, by assuming your premise (that it's definitely harmful).
I've likewise read studies claiming otherwise, which seemed to agree with what I'd passed on before - that it's harmful iff performed wrong. But then, confirmation bias could be affecting me. Or you. Or both of us.
Confirmation bias is always a possibility, true, but I've never seen a study claiming that there's any actual benefit for the cat (in 99.9% of cases anyway, there are edge cases where there is a real benefit), as opposed to things like desexing that does provide benefits (reduced cancer risk, reduced behavioral issues, reduced unwanted kittens)
(And to elaborate on edge cases, about 20 years ago my family had a litter of kittens with two polydactyls, one of whom had some malformed digits that would have led to future health issues if not removed)
Oh, sure, I've never claimed it's a benefit for the cat (well, I guess it depends on perspective. Alice is a great owner who will adopt a cat and declaw it. Bob is a mediocre owner who won't declaw - is declawing here a benefit to the cat? Directly no, socially... maybe?).
My stance is that: - If performed well (which is hard) there are benefits to the owner and no effect to the cat - If not performed well, there are detriments to the cat
Considering that declaw is one of the top reasons leading to surrender/abandonment, I'd say in both cases it's not a benefit, as there's no guarantee Alice will keep the cat if it develops behavioral issues. One would certainly hope, but there's plenty of "great owners" who then decided they "couldn't deal with" the biting or litterbox problems.
Many people do not have the patience to deal with an issue like a bitey cat or one who pees everywhere. My youngest (who has all her pointy bits!) had behavioral issues where she was both, and at least once her foster (my housemate) commented that the peeing problem was one where she wouldn't blame anyone for returning a cat to the foster.
@Sarov and often there are. Sometimes it's done well and the cat does okay (but is likely still in discomfort, just hiding it), sometimes it's done poorly and the cat suffers badly, especially as they get older.
With the trouble kitten, it took me over a year to resolve the peeing issue. I definitely don't blame people for giving up on a problem like that! But I blame them a little if something they did directly led to it.
@AllisonC I don't see the evidence for the 'hiding the pain' point. Aside from that, I agree. The majority of declawings are performed poorly (due to lack of skill and/or budget for good pain meds), and as such most declawings will cause issues. What I disagree with is the sweeping generalization that declawing your cat is always unethical.
@Sarov Cats (and dogs) always hide pain and illness; it's an evolutionary defense mechanism. Not seeing pain or discomfort isn't evidence it doesn't exist; removal of the digit alters how they carry their weight and examinations have shown damage that would clearly be causing at least discomfort.
(Ouch... finally found a way around the issue I was researching how to do yesterday, and today it turns out the data set retrieved was wrong. Time to spend another hour getting the right data, yay)
@AllisonC Sidenote - I'm a little surprised that hasn't been bred out of dog, considering how much they've been modified.
@AllisonC I'm still clueless on the web.config thing. It says it encrypted successfully but it didn't do anything! I hate 'failed successfully!' situations. Nothing to go off of.
@AllisonC Not familiar with those particular studies so I suppose I can't really comment.
(Don't suppose you know how to encrypt the connectionStrings section of a web.config, do you?)
Unfortunately, I don't. We end up with having a "prod" and "dev" version of the files seeding our .configs, but it's security through obscurity with only certain people having access to the production version
@motosubatsu Using aspnet_regiis.exe. Though, programmatically would also work. I actually just got it to encrypt 2 min ago... But now it can't decrypt it when running the app. :|
StackOverflow says it's because the encryption key needs to be moved to the web server, but I created it on the... waiiit no, I created it on the deployment server, not the web server.
...It's a day. At least I'm almost done with the updated for the update for yesterday's massive data pull? Had to break for a missing sproc error though.
@Wolgwang Depends on the level of depression. If you are depressed to the point where you seriously neglect your own personal hygiene a pet might not be a good idea. Serious neglect of personal hygiene is one of the identifiers used by GPs to identify how depressed the person is.
If you still somewhat function, albeit not in a good way, as in the seasonal affective disorder, it could be beneficial to have a pet. Taking care of a pet can give the person some sense of achievement/worthiness. Also, being in contact with an animal usually helps you feel better about yourself anyway :)
Even if you, and by you I mean the depressed person, somewhat function, some insurance that the pet will not be neglected is necessary. Like the a family member who say they would step forward if the animal is neglected.
I suggest hamsters. No long commitment (3 years max), very low maintenance (weekly cleaning which takes 15 min and changing the water bottle once every 2-3 days), still hairy so touching and petting them relieves you from some tension :)
They are quite strong, much more intelligent than hamsters (won't just assume it is okay to jump if they can't see the floor) and overall more self sufficient
@Sarov hahhahhah, a magical fairy land where everything's internal apps and the people doing the requests have to work closely with the teams fulfilling them :)
@Wolgwang Usually diseases. Cleaning vomit or feces if they get diarrhea is not fun. Also, being woken up every morning around 8 AM is also not fun, especially when you work late at night :)
But they are like children of your own, so even the worst things aren't that bad and pretty much every other thing is an "awww" thing :)
@Wolgwang Ah, I thought of one very disturbing thing about Sonny. I don't know what to do if he needs to have a very expensive treatment. I don't think I can afford $10000 if he gets FIP or something.
He has some healthy insurance but nowhere near enough to cover that
I do have one cat who does practically nothing annoying (even hairballs... which is odd since long-haired), aside from one thing... "Knocking" on closed doors she wants to get in. By which I mean pounding her paws on it. Nonstop. For tens of minutes.
@Wolgwang Worst things are definitely cleaning up puke/hairballs, which are both pretty unavoidable ultimately with cats, but definitely not the worst thing in the world. (Also when I had one who insisted on peeing on my bed, but we worked through that :) ).
For "awww" I'd say how I'll usually wake up with all three curled up with me (particularly when the third does, she's not as "snuggly" as the other two but still comes to snuggle most mornings now), and how they all rush up to me when I come home from work or a trip.
@Sarov Even better, I've had no further requests for that data set, it's finally the right one :) Spent the latter half of my day prepping a walkthrough on a process only I understand, so hopefully going forward I won't be the only one who understands it
(because let's be honest, I only barely understand the damn thing, and I'm the one who wrote it!)
