The Litter Box

lila

00:47

Okay riddle solved; I can indeed downv*te answers while having 1 reputation.

Journeyman Geek

@lila 0_0

@lila essentially mod unlocks all previleges

lila

@JourneymanGeek Almost; a far as I know I would not be able to vote in moderator elections nor answer protected questions (but I can, however, unprotect questions), and my reputation graph disappeared from both Pets SE and from network wide profile page.

Journeyman Geek

@lila ah, true, or stand for elections I guess

lila

@JourneymanGeek Standing in elections is valid point too.

Journeyman Geek

Personally - I'd try to stay at the 10k equvilent :D

(Can't remember beta priv levels, nor do I actually worry too much about rep these days)

lila

01:01

it is 2000

and yes, I understand what do you mean, but I was really really really curious and for me it was a fair price to pay to find out

lila

01:13

I have not said it in ages, because I was embarrassed of how late I am going to sleep, so it's time: good night!

bobble

03:36

\o I think mutts is probably a synonym of crossbreed here. (Yes, I am the kind of person who goes looking around random other sites' lists of tags)

Journeyman Geek

@bobble Well - kinda sorta. Cross breed assumes a cross of known breeds

On the other hand, mutts, mongrels and singapore specials are probably interchangable regionally :D

bobble

> Crossbred pets are the results from mating two different breeds (dachshund, husky) of the same species (dog). Synonyms include "mix", "mutt", "mongrel", "hybrid", and "designer pet".

Journeyman Geek

@bobble 'breeds' are a reasonably specific thing. Designer Pets are fairly specific crosses. You can have a mutt that's not a 'cross' of two different breeds but rather... well local/strays of known origin.

This might be worth a pets.meta discussion :D

Also you can have non dog crosses like say cats

and mutts is very much a term used for dogs

Nai45

04:11

@bobble Funny that you noticed that, as I was going to write a meta post including the same example for a discussion in a few days (as part of part 2 of my tag clean up. A week ago I posted part 1 and after I take action on what we decided in part 1, I'm moving on to part 2) Feel free to participate in the discussion on meta in a few days if you have something to input! Thanks :D

bobble

@Nai45 I don't actually have an account here, but I am a random passer-by who likes dealing with tags

Writing needs this more, by the way. I pointed out a writting tag recently.

Nai45

@bobble Yes, but creating an account and getting 4 rep is easy (rep required for meta participation, all you need to do is edit twice)

@bobble What do you mean? I see no questions listed under that tag?

bobble

@Nai45 association bonus means I wouldn't even have to do that.

@Nai45 a mod cleaned it up. It existed, along with fction

Nai45

@bobble Oh yeah, true! See! Easy...

bobble

I'm an outsider. I'd rather not create an account just to hop in here, since I wouldn't be helping in a sustained way.

Trust me, you're not the first person to try to get me to make an account. RPG and ELL I edit on regularly and they haven't succeeded.

Nai45

04:16

@bobble Oh. Well, I have not been active on Writing for several months. I had a quick burst when I joined and got 1.7k rep but then got bored and moved onto Pets recently, which I enjoy

@bobble I see. Well, I give you 24 hours before you change your mind and come back pleading for help joining the site.... (just kidding, that was a joke, don't hate me)

Well, getting late over here, so turning in for the night. Bye!

bobble

Either 8 or 9 of Community's 2021 edits are from me (not sure about one of 'em) :D

Journeyman Geek

04:43

@Nai45 meh

AT LEAST a grovelling

Talk is Cheap Show me Code

06:15

@lila WOw :-) thank you so much, you made my day :-)

Elmy

07:48

@lila Wait you regain rep for deleting a negaive answer? I really don't think that's how it works (maybe mod delete is different). If I have 100 rep, write a bad answer and get downvoted to 50 rep, when I delete my answer, I still only have 50 rep. I may get a badge for deleting the answer, but my rep still stays the same

Journeyman Geek

@Elmy you do

Elmy

@JourneymanGeek I do have 50 rep or I do have 100 rep? Your answer is really ambiguous XD

Journeyman Geek

@Elmy IIRC the rep gets refunded

lila

09:47

hi

@bobble Hi welcome to Litter Box chat channel, please make yourself feel as if you are at home.

@Elmy I am not sure but I think this is how it works, at least I lose reputation for deleting positive-scored answer (I deleted some recently that question authors did not like but upv*ted, or in general: answers I felt were bad and the votes they got were mercy votes). People self-deleting own negative scored posts regain reputation as if the post had never existed in the 1st place.

@Elmy and you have 100 reputation after this to be specific.

@Ex_Machina Hi welcome to Litter Box chat channel, please make yousrelf feel as if you are at home.

@bobble Oh, and please make account on Pets and join us. Am I the 10000000th person who told you this and did I win the jackpot of you creating account? ^.^

@JourneymanGeek this does not answer the question :/

Journeyman Geek

10:04

@lila I'll check the next time I delete a negatively scored question :D

lila

10:27

I am, as usual, browsing HNQ questions; I am not fascinated by physics nor knowledgeable in it, but some questions and answers give me simpler view on usual things. However, today is the opposite; I clicked on question about current in batteries and circuits and, on top of reading a primitively blunt comment thread, I got a link to website that claims that:

"Electronics students commonly assume that electrical energy flows inside metal wires. Physics students know differently! Electrical energy normally doesn't flow inside of metals. In fact, the joules being sent out by batteries and generators are located in empty space: they take the form of electromagnetic fields surrounding the wires. The diagrams below will show us the details."

Oh cool, electricity supposedly does not flow in wires but in space surrounding the wires! Excuse my ignorance, I never really liked physics nor was any good at it, but this sounds like overcomplicated nonsense! :/

Elmy

10:43

@lila Wow, that sounds like someone read some really complicated stuff about electrical currents, understood less than half of it and then boasted with their universal knowledge about the universe and everything

I mean, it's at least somewhat true. People often imagine a wire working like a garden hose: put an electron in on one end and it magically pops out the other end and makes a light bulb glow. The truth is that the electrons don't travel like that.

lila

@Elmy Haha exactly how I feel about this, here is the relevant article: amasci.com/elect/poynt/poynt.html and I highly doubt it is how this happens; I mean, I get that the lines around circuits are maaaybe somewhat like this, but the whole reasoning seems off because it is current in wire that causes these fields, not vice versa.

@Elmy I also believed it, but one time it clicked for me the day I learnt that electrons travel 0.1 mm/s, but the electric field itself travels at speed of lite.

Elmy

BUT an electromagnetic field is CREATED by the electrons moving inside the wire. There are no magical "Joules" (and no "Vernes" either ;) that know what a wire is and make a lightbulb glow. Electrons move, just not the same way water moves through a garden hose

lila

@Elmy I mean, they move 0.1 mm/s, but once you press the lightswitch, they start moving along the whole wire almost at instant.

Elmy

@lila Yep, that's the magic. The wires are already full of electrons and you just need to give them a push.

Semiconductors are an interesting topic, because you actually have too litte (or too many, depending of the type of semiconductor) electrons in the material

(I liked physics class at school ^^)

@lila Oh wait, it's even more complicated! They talk about the ENERGY, not the electrons. The electrons carry a charge, but they don't carry the energy. You need to apply energy to make the electrons move.

lila

@Elmy I technically understand if I watch video about semiconductors or read someone explain it, but I do not think I would be able to explain it myself to anyone ^.^

@Elmy I guess so :D

Elmy

11:00

I have to correct my former statement. Someone learned some really complicated stuff about electrical currents, chose a clickbaity and slightly degrading introduction and then tries to explain it in "simple terms" that are actually more confusing. And I'm still not 100% sure everything written there is actually correct...

lila

@Elmy Oh okay, so they talk about energy and not electricity, okay so they just tricked me via using shifty terminology and overcomplicated reasoning! ""Electronics students commonly assume that electrical energy flows inside metal wires. Physics students know differently!" sounds really high-horsed and pretentious! In-the-face implicit message: oooh, check out the big brains of those P h y s i c s students! :/

@Elmy By the way, here is the relevant Q&A: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/638988/…

@Elmy If we had culture like this on Pets, the highest voted comment for the question about Betta fish would be "your problem is, and I can't think of a way of saying this without sounding insulting, that you don't know what a nitrogen cycle is and what nitrifying bacteria are, and your concepts about fishkeeping are simply wrong. Fixing that requires reading basic course about fishkeeping, that is typically taught to kindergartners." :/

I am so happy that we do not have culture like this on Pets.

And yes, I know I am ranting :/ and now I realize it could be seen as me being obnoxious :/ apologies.

lila

11:30

@Mast I am sorry but this does not answer my question.

Mast

@lila Electronics students will learn soon enough as well, otherwise transformers wouldn't work.

Source: I'm a hardware engineer by trade.

Journeyman Geek

@Mast Everyone knows electronics run on the basis of magic smoke

Mast

Yes. If all the smoke escapes, it stops working.

lila

@Mast Oh okay, I honestly didn't think about transformers, connecting these two concepts clears up a lot, thanks!

Mast

Antennae are pretty wireless as well.

Elmy

11:38

@lila Hey, we should use that exact wording for a new close reason XD (sarcasm included)

Mast

Well, picking up wireless energy, for some values of wireless and energy.

Physicists can be a bunch of pedants, because their work requires it. Same with engineers. I think that's part of why their culture is different from the one at Pets.

lila

@C.Koca hi

C.Koca

Hey

lila

@Mast Actually the Tesla coil in your avatar (or whatever else it is) is more than enough for me to believe you :D does the article amasci.com/elect/poynt/poynt.html make sense to you then?

Elmy

@Mast TBH, we can be pedantic, too, just about different topics (especially the wellbeing and health of animals). The big problem seems to be that words like "energy" are used in so many different ways in our everyday life that it can get really confusing once you're forced to think about it in the scientific meaning

C.Koca

11:42

I just popped in and see a debate I am extremely familiar with :)

Mast

@Elmy Energy can mean so many things, it is confusing.

C.Koca

I have degrees both in physics and engineering and I have to say I am with engineers in this.

lila

@C.Koca Oooh okay, tell me more tell me more please

Mast

That's one of the reasons we talk about electrical energy, chemical energy, heat (which is an energy) and other more specific forms of energy.

C.Koca

@lila When you turn on the tap, you don't wait for the water to come from the dam. It is just the nearest water molecules that drops down from the tap.

Mast

11:44

Light, is also energy.

Although it depends on who you ask whether it's a particle or a wave...

C.Koca

Sorry, this was about the electron drift velocity, I couldn't manage to reply properly :)

Mast

@lila It's a fusion reactor.

And yes, the article makes sense.

C.Koca

So, drift velocity carries little meaning here. And drift occurs only because we have pipes in the water distribution system. Energy flows as much in wires as water flows in the pipes. Even if they refer to skin effect, it is still within the wires, just not in the centre.

lila

@Mast ok thanks

C.Koca

@Mast Honestly, I don't like whether light is a particle or wave debate. Light is light, some properties of it make sense with wave mechanics, some make sense with particle mechanics.

Elmy

11:53

@C.Koca A friend of mine once speculated that photons are wobbly particles (like a small water balloon). That's why they can impact with objects like particles but create interferences like waves - thy wobble when they hit the edge of the obstacle. I found that idea crazy and endearing and it still makes me smile today

C.Koca

This is a nice analogy @Elmy I guess some aspects of water balloons are better explained with wave mechanics :)

lila

@C.Koca It is okay ^.^ for me, learning the distinction between electron drift velocity and EMG field propagation velocity was one of the biggest clicking points. However, long ago in school they were repeating how electrons drift at 0.1 mm/s and regurgitating all the other unrelated things, while not telling that EMG propagates close to speed of light, also I was never really fascinated with physics, plus I am a blonde (genuine).

@Elmy I think your friend is extremely smart because that is an explaination that I have already heard somewhere and I do not remember exactly, but it was some big youtube channel about physics.

C.Koca

@lila I don't think your blondivity has anything to do here :) Drift velocity is not all that meaningless, it is just that for energy carrying purposes it is not the correct concept.

lila

I mean, there is this joke: -hi, 10 kg of potatoes please -do you want small or large potatoes? -Small please, the large ones would be too heavy for me :/ and I feel like this joke is about me :D

@C.Koca Haha yes, now it is clear :D but in that context, drift velocity was confusing.

C.Koca

Between us, I still don't understand group vs phase velocity enough to explain properly :)

I actually popped in to the chat to ask you if you are satisfied now that you dissipated all your karma @lila :)

having bounties was a great way to shake up the SE but it shouldn't just be you

Journeyman Geek

12:02

lol

Elmy

@C.Koca Unfortunately on a small site like Pets the most active users who write the highest quality answers don't seem to care too much for bounties. Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it didn't seem too much of an incentive.

C.Koca

@Elmy I never think of bounties when I write an answer either. Even thinking of upvotes is detrimental to the general effort. But they are out of ordinary and introduces some livelihood to the community.

Frankly, I lost some of my enthusiasm. I even don't write answers to the 10th "How can I stop my cat from doing this" question. So, seeing something different was quite welcome for me.

lila

12:22

@C.Koca I did not even know what it is and that it was a thing! :o But animated pictures of moving "waves" give me a lick of what this is about.

@C.Koca I am mostly fine, however, I realize that what I did was unusual and certainly puts a huge arrow pointing at me and clearly saying that I am not neurotypical to say the lightest, and I am not sure whether it is good thing or not :D but I started with an assumption that giving bounties could help me tricking people into believing that I am not a bad person, and it sort of seems to be working :D (half kidding there, but only half)

@C.Koca I also think it was good to give the site some "fresh blood", but I do not expect anybody else to do anything similar.

@Elmy Oh I also noticed this (but I am only user of Pets and none of other sites)

C.Koca

@lila Definitely not typical. It is a great form of selflessness. We might not be thinking of karma when contributing but it always helps to be recognised. I know karma is not a currency that we can cash but I believe that high karma is kind of a proof that we are generally recognised. You giving all of it away freely was really generous.

I don't know why people would ever think that you might be bad is beyond me. Maybe there was a drama I wasn't aware of but you are the most involved mod to the best of my knowledge.

Elmy

@lila We (or at least I) don't care for neurotypicality. We like you as you are

2

lila

@C.Koca Oh you are hitting my note right there; I lost most of my enthusiasm a few months ago already and even though I still frequent to the site more or less the same as before, it is now driven by sentiment and inertia.

@C.Koca Haha thanks, but I would still argue that what I did was selfish, just on a higher level, but still selfish :D and I am serious there. Level one selfishness is making myself feel better via doing good things to myself. Level two: I did this to make myself feel better via making other people feel better; this is more refined selfishness, but still selfishness. And I do not think it is a bad thing, our most potent instinct (self-preservation)...

@C.Koca ... is behind that, and it is ultimately a selfish instinct. It is like children have less refined taste and enjoy basic things, like sweet chocolate; however, as you age and your taste gets more refined, you start to enjoy more refined things like coffee, dark chocolate, etc. which you didn't as a child. But it is still about drinking/eating, just more refined taste.

@C.Koca haha you are now giving me a really sinister idea :D no, there was no drama, but let's pretend that there was and it was extremely obnoxious, shocking and impactful, and let's gaslight people that references are all over the place, it's just that they need to search a bit deeper; they will all go insane looking for things that have never existed :D are you convinced now? :D

@Elmy thanks, and I also think neurotypicality is overrated :D

C.Koca

12:43

@lila This is Ayn Rand speaking and I am not really an objectivist :) Enjoying doing good things are encoded to us evolutionarily. Enjoying what you are doing without getting anything back is not really selfish.

@lila I never really thought there was a drama :) I was just puzzled when you start with the assumption that people might think of you as a bad person. I always assume good faith.

Elmy

@lila I'm absolutely convinced that every single person in the world self-identifies with at least one psychological disorder, be it AUtism (which is a very broad spectrum), narcisism, sociopathy, anxiety or any of the numerous other ones I can't think of right now. It's normal to be nor normal. I'm not normal either and I'm perfectly fine with it.

lila

@C.Koca Oh interesting, what message specifically is Ayn Rand's style? I googled this name because I never heard of her and sounds interesting.

@C.Koca I know, sorry maybe sarcasm does not always transfer that well as I subjectively assume :D I am just taking the (true and wise) idea that common sense tells you should be suspicious of somebody who has to constantly claim that they are a good person, because if they have to tell this to all around, then it is probably not genuine. And I am half-kidding by naively taking it to level two: claiming that I am actually a bad person, and via the reverse and contrast I will appear ...

C.Koca

@lila It is an outdated ideology: youtube.com/watch?v=Kbfy6_fMBiw

lila

@C.Koca ... actually good :D

C.Koca

@lila Well, sarcasm is harder to grasp online :) especially when you are joining a place for the first time :)

lila

12:54

@C.Koca second time! :D

but jokes aside, yes I know

@C.Koca thanks!

C.Koca

Really, I feel stalked :) @lila

lila

@C.Koca oh no no, no, it is just that you are on my watchlist, do not worry please, it is not really a big deal! (yes I'm kidding)

C.Koca

@lila :)

lila

@C.Koca Okay what I will tell you now will be probably uncomfortable in this context: I am casually looking at profile pages of our regular users from time to time, watch activity, etc. normal stuff. And if someone has badge progress of "rare" badge, I sometimes get to grow it on me and remember to regularly check out the progress. Okay, so I used to follow the progress of your urine-colored circle medal for 100 consecutive days, excuse me, I mean fanatic badge.

C.Koca

@lila youtube.com/watch?v=_8m8cQI4DgM this is a better video for Ayn Rand

lila

13:09

@C.Koca And I remember I started really get emotionally involved once there was 60 to 70/100, and I checked it once a day at least; then one day I remember you were 90-something/100, I do not remember exactly but just a few days short of 100... and then you missed one day and it resetted back to 0/100; I was heartbroken!

@C.Koca later I will check out both, thanks!

C.Koca

@lila No it really doesn't make me uncomfortable. I also click on some profiles. I am especially interested in other SEs people contribute to :)

@lila Ahahahaha, thanks! I know as a grown man I shouldn't care about the urine coloured badge, but I really really tried to get it :)

I lost the progress on a holiday when I didn't have internet connection

lila

@C.Koca Oh, but that's stalking! The police unit is on their way to talk with you, the prosecutor has already prepared the charges :D

@C.Koca :D

C.Koca

They are not taking me alive! (grabs cat as a weapon)

lila

@C.Koca Oh that's just sad :/ or actually not, a G E N U I N E fanatic would never ever go on a holiday where risk of losing access to the beloved SE site would be any greater than 0% :D

@C.Koca By the way I remember that you used to have some high reputation profile on some SE site (sorry I don't remember right now, something about stories, I mean as if in writing/fantasy/sci-fi/movies?) and it disappeared some time ago, did you delete it?

And why? In case it is not some sensitive subject for you, then I am just curious.

C.Koca

@lila scifi SE. I didn't really fit into that community. There was some drama as well, but the main reasoning is that I did not fit in. My presence started hurting the SE and one of the moderators that I loved most get criticism for protecting me.

I had to delete my profile because my fingers always typed scifi as soon as I sat in front of my computer, so "I am not deleting my profile but I also won't be participating" didn't work for me.

I was on day 88 for scifi SE when I deleted my profile :) another urine badge that I didn't get

lila

13:24

@CaldeiraG hi long time no see, I was worried, welcome!

@C.Koca Wow that hits right home for me, "pets" is what I am automatically typing as the first thing in internet browser since over 400 days and I totally understand; I also would not be able to abstain without an "external" factor like deleted account

Sarov

@lila How can you be blonde? You're a bot. With purple hair.

Journeyman Geek

@Sarov its a purple blond

Sarov

@C.Koca "Enjoying doing good things are encoded to us evolutionarily" I remember watching a YouTube video about that. Something about green beards...

Mast

@JourneymanGeek Lavender?

C.Koca

@lila it is all about muscle memory :) I also had to redirect 9gag to 127.0.0.1 manually to stop myself :)

Journeyman Geek

13:30

@Mast kinda like a black blond, a red blond...

C.Koca

@Sarov My current work is tangentially related to evolutionary biology but this is the first type I heard of green beard altruism. Now I have something to read! Thank you:)

Sarov

Welcome. IIRC it's pretty rare. Only like a couple types of ants ever evolved it.

Mast

Ants have green beards?

lila

@Sarov wow somebody actually reads the transcript! :D avatar is just a cute character that I liked from the first sight, partly because the color fits the name which could also mean this color (but for me is primarily a reference to flower/plant), I have never had hair colored like that, it is a bit darker shade of blonde :D

@JourneymanGeek :D

@C.Koca oh I had a few-month-long phase of 9gag fascination a few years ago, too

Sarov

@Mast <pedantry>*Technically*, 'Physicists' would stands for 'all physicists', and it is highly unlikely that there does not exist a physicist who is not a pedant. So a more proper statement would have contained the phrase 'Physicists in general', 'Many physicists' or 'Physicists have a tendency towards'...</pedantry> :D

Mast

13:36

@Sarov You're a physicist, aren't you?

lila

@C.Koca 88 days down the drain, what a waste, and you were so close to the urine-colored dot, but urine arguably is supposed to go down the drain if we are taking hygiene seriously so you are just a really clean person as it seems :D

Mast

;-)

Sarov

Hahaha no. I am not.

Mast

Anyway, that's why I write they can be, not that they all are.

Sarov

Though I do know one. I'm particularly interested in the theory that there only exists one single electron. It just exists in multiple places at once.

2

True, but that assumes that there is not a physicist who cannot be pedantic.

Mast

13:39

@Sarov Wat

1?

C.Koca

@Sarov So if you take integral over all space for electrons, the result is one?

Mast

That would completely change the models we use for microelectronics, wouldn't it?

Everything working with transistors, basically.

C.Koca

@lila I spent years there. It was fun once but it turned into a safe haven for right wing politics.

Sarov

Basically, since all electrons are, as far as we can tell, identical (aside from position), and because they're small enough to be affected by quantum forces.... it's not impossible.

Mast

So, how does a molecule that's short 2 electrons work if there's only 1 single electron?

It's short that electron in 2 places?

Sarov

13:42

Yeah.

The (single) electron just doesn't happen to exist in those two positions at that time.

lila

@Sarov it is mega intriguing, but what problem does such assumption actually solve?

C.Koca

Crazier theories than single electron in the entire universe were proved to be true, so why not? :)

Sarov

@lila No idea. :D Like I said, I'm not a physicist myself. I just found the theory interesting.

lila

@Sarov oh ok

Mast

@lila Like with many theoretical physics, it's quite possible we'll only know decades later what it's good for.

GPS could only happen after Einstein's relativity theories.

lila

13:45

@Sarov I have a feeling that if I heard this theory but did not know who actually said it in this chat, my #1 guess would be you; it sounds just so Sarovesque

C.Koca

This reminds me the theory of darkon :)

Sarov

@lila Nah, 97% sure this was the first time I've mentioned it.

lila

@Sarov oh sorry maybe I was not clear: yes, I know it is the first time you mentioned it; I mean, if I saw message but did not see the nickname, my first guess about nickname would be 'Sarov'

@C.Koca tell me more tell me more, please

Sarov

@lila Ah gotcha.

C.Koca

darkon theory says light does not propagate my photons. Instead, darkness propagates by darkons and lack of darkons cause light. So, lamps do not generate photons, they suck darkons etc.

2

Sarov

13:51

lolwut

C.Koca

It is actually developed by physicists so the theory is almost iron proof. It predicts almost everything photons are used. It also includes photoelectric effect. Light sources suck a darkon and and this causes ionisation :)

It is developed against weird self sustaining theories like one electron in the entire universe theory. Basically it says "yeah it predicts what we already know but what else does it do?"

Sarov

So... how does that work with black holes? They emit darkons?

C.Koca

I guess so...

Sarov

Bizarre.

C.Koca

this is published in OSA: osa-opn.org/opn/media/Images/PDFs/…

Sarov

13:56

Ah cool, thanks.

C.Koca

"Essentially, when electrons
escape from a metal, they do not
do so alone: they take darkons
with them. If they do not escape,
the darkons do not escape either.
This phenomenon is known as the
darkon threshold. If an electron
performs an amount of work W to
escape from a metallic surface,
then the condition for hindrance of
darkon emission (remember, one
wishes to conserve, not get rid of,
darkons) is"

Mast

@C.Koca I thought dark matter was weird, now there's this.

C.Koca

@Mast This is designed to be weird :)

Sarov

Dark matter's actually pretty straightforward, innit? There is matter that is highly non-reactive so we can't find it. But it has mass. It's so non-reactive that if two galaxies crash into each other, the dark matter in them will keep going on their original routes as if there hadn't been a crash.

(Leaving behind galaxies that no longer contain dark matter)

lila

14:13

Did you know that mammals, including humans, are shining like stars, and are basically almost like stars? It is just that we shine in 10.000 nm wavelength light (visible via thermal camera), and we get energy from chemical reactions instead of fusion, and we are held together by electromagnetism instead of gravity force.

C.Koca

@Sarov I don't know that much about dark matter. Never took astrophysics courses. But I dated the valedictorian of the astrophysics cohort :) most of my knowledge in astrophysics comes from there

Mast

@lila It's what you see when looking through a thermal camera.

Sarov

@lila Sure. That's why we show up on infrared cameras. We're also radioactive! :D

Like chom choms.

Mast

C.Koca

This is a handsome horse

Mast

14:16

I've used those professionally for testing electronic equipment. It's better to 'see' a component is getting too hot than to find out with your fingers.

lila

@Sarov groan, bananas! :D

@Mast I am seeing a shining star.

Sarov

@lila The uncultured sometimes call them that, yes. :P

lila

@Sarov all the popculture and this whole "chom chom equivalent radiation dose" makes the impression as if chom choms were the only source of potassium or the best one; but actually all plants contain potassium. It is even in the name origin: potassium comes from "pot ash".

Sarov

@lila Really? So a chom chom isn't a better source of potassium than, say, a salad?

Mast

Obligatory XKCD:

Bananas are near the top of the blue (left) section.

Journeyman Geek

14:22

@Mast I kinda want one of those USB ones but I don't know if they work with my phone

and the standalone one I have is cheap and terrible

lila

@Sarov By the way, there is a video about a man extracting potassium metal from chom choms, it goes all the way from peeling and drying chom choms, then burning them to ash, dissolving potassium salts from ash into the water, perticipating potassium as insoluble salt via addition of ammonium perchlorate, then coverting it to potassium chloride via heating, then finally extracting the metal and making a small metallic chom chom out of it like it was clay used for modelling.

Journeyman Geek

@lila sounds like nilered

lila

@JourneymanGeek wow I'm impressed, you almost guessed it :D it is Cody's Lab

@Sarov probably better than salad, because it has more "soft mass", sorry I do not know how it is called. But all plants contain potassium, around 1% of dehydrated mass is potassium.

CaldeiraG

@lila heyo o/

Sarov

@Mast So having >500,000 chom choms per year (~1900/day) is dangerous.

Mast

14:27

@JourneymanGeek The good ones are bloody expensive, although there are some breakthroughs in the 200-300 bucks range.

We're getting there.

lila

@Sarov Chom chom: 358 mg of potassium per 100g of chom choms; potato: 421 mg of potassium per 100g of potatoes.

Sarov

...Huh.

Mast

@Sarov That's 1350 bananas a day. A banana weighs a bit over 100g. That's 135kg of bananas a day you're talking about.

Yea, I'd say that's dangerous.

You know what's also dangerous? 135 liters of water a day.

lila

@Sarov Hey, nothing like a good salad!

Sarov

@Mast ...How did I get 1900? Must've typo'd calculator I guess.

lila

14:31

@Sarov I said, hey nothing like a good salad!

@Sarov I'm vegan. Did you hear me, I said I'm vegan!

Sarov

Are you really?

lila

haha no :D I am paraphrasing a video that I like but cannot really link to it because it could be seen as, big air quotes, o f f e n s i v e

and it is quite popular so I assumed you may know it?

Sarov

No, though I'm familiar with the general 'vegans are loud about being vegan' thing.

lila

@Sarov No it is not, you just forgot to convert from bananas to chom choms :D

Sarov

@lila It's a 1-1!

Mast

14:35

1:1

lila

@Sarov I know! So, did you convert it or not?

Sarov

Of course not. Never used banana-units in the first place!

motosubatsu

@lila metric bananas or imperial?

2

lila

@Sarov Oh okay, so there we have a problem; I know it may be tempting to do it all in your head with conversions, but please first try to write it down and actually do the conversion from bananas to chom choms on paper. No matter it seems easy, just for a good ethics of work, please do it formally on paper, and then if it keeps being wrong we will think about solution.

@motosubatsu :D

Sarov

@lila Paper? When are we, the 18th century??

Mast

14:41

Excel

Excel is very, very useful for conversions.

lila

@Sarov Oh sorry, I forgot you are ancient traditionalist and disregard modern inventions, I meant to say clay tablets :D

Journeyman Geek

@motosubatsu The old roman banana

motosubatsu

@JourneymanGeek ah, a purist I see :)

Journeyman Geek

Which reminds me of a funny story

I was on an exchange program in france years ago. We were there at the same time as an american uni, and there was a russian student from therewe hung around with

One day we go to the supermarket and she's like OMG DRIED BANANAS

Mast

What's the weight of a dried banana? Perhaps that will help with Sarov's intake.

lila

14:49

Potassium Metal From Bananas!

►

Journeyman Geek

Dried bananas look... uh

lila

@JourneymanGeek I am also from Eastern (arguably) Europe, and I would also be happy surprised if I saw dried bananas anywhere (I never seen them)

Journeyman Geek

Ah!

See the one dried banana plant in the Soviet Union was...

Near Chernobyl

So it had literally been years

Mast

I'd guess those bananas are slightly more radioactive then.

Journeyman Geek

(dried bananas look brown wrinkly and slightly very NSFW)

lila

14:54

my parents remember the old times of USSR's prime (we were not part of Soviet union, but still bordering it and closely related) and "exotic" fruits like oranges or any other citrus were a rare treat seen only on big holidays a few times a year. Bananas might have been the same, but I am not sure.

Mast

Apparently drying a banana reduces the weight by factor 4.

Could someone eat 30kg dried banana a day?

lila

And I wanted to joke that this one banana plant was actually a potato, but it is kind of actually sad. A similarly sad joke talks about two soldiers: one Soviet and one American. American soldier says that their daily nutrition value of meals on most tiresome missions is 8000 kcal, and the Soviet soldier replies "impossible, nobody would be able to eat 30 kg of potatoes in one day!" sad :/

Mast

15:07

@lila First he's removing the water, then he's adding the water.

Make up your mind.

lila

@Mast He needs to initially remove water to char and then burn it into ash more easily :D then adds water to ash to leach the alkali metals (sodium and potassium) exclusively; magnesium and calcium salts are abundant in the ash alongside potassium, but their salts are almost insoluble in water.

Journeyman Geek

@lila Watney could!

Sarov

15:22

@JourneymanGeek Watney?

lila

who is watney could?

Journeyman Geek

The Martian (Weir novel)

The Martian is a 2011 science fiction novel written by Andy Weir. It was his debut novel under his own name. It was originally self-published in 2011; Crown Publishing purchased the rights and re-released it in 2014. The story follows an American astronaut, Mark Watney, as he becomes stranded alone on Mars in 2035 and must improvise in order to survive. The Martian, a film adaptation directed by Ridley Scott and starring Matt Damon, was released in October 2015. == Plot summary == In 2035, the crew of NASA's Ares 3 mission have arrived at Acidalia Planitia for a planned month-long stay on Mars...

lila

oooh okay okay I see I see

:D

Apologies for nagging, but...

3

Q: How cruel is it to make your cat listen to other cats?

From time to time, to control how cats act, I use other cat sounds (I play these sound using my phone). Female cats are attracted to crying kittens, whether they are spayed or not, while male cats are controlled by fighting cats. In case of emergencies, such as to get a hiding cat for a vet visit...

^ last chance for +100 points!

Allison C

@JourneymanGeek the ones in stores tend to look more chip-like (or fruit-leather like) thankfully. And dried plantains can look a bit like potato chips. Enough that one of my housemates bought a bag of dried plantains and was all set to eat them until I pointed out they weren't potatoes. (Like me, he's allergic to bananas and, by extension, plantains.)

Journeyman Geek

@AllisonC Oh plantains are also not necessarily 'ripe'

unripe plantains tend to be cooked like... a potato?

Allison C

15:34

@JourneymanGeek Before I developed the allergy I used to eat the plantain chips, they were very potato-chip like. Really tasty! (I actually miss cooked plantains a bit more than bananas, honestly.)

Journeyman Geek

@AllisonC yeah I was trying to google a picture and nothing looked 'right' :D

Kinda like that but I remember them being darker and wrinklier

Allison C

those look almost more like dates

Journeyman Geek

oh those look like banana chips

Allison C

I'm more used to the ones that look like that, a bit more appetizing (though I never really cared much for them and don't miss them one bit)

Journeyman Geek

Yeah, that was the funny bit

Allison C

15:39

this is the closest I've tried to that other one (I'm not sure it sold well)

Journeyman Geek

._.

motosubatsu

@JourneymanGeek not an entirely uncommon ingredient in pet food actually

Journeyman Geek

That looks like someone alredy ate it

@motosubatsu o0

Allison C

apparently some people really liked rolling them up with peanut butter, but I don't recall them ever being super popular. Next time I go in I should see if there's any on the shelf (it's been over 5 years since I left that job)

Journeyman Geek

@motosubatsu Oh banana chips are a specific thing - unripe plantains sliced, fried and salted

motosubatsu

15:44

@JourneymanGeek ahh I'm talking as in literal chips of dried banana

Allison C

Plaintain chips and banana chips are two different things. :) Banana chips are dried banana, plantain chips are sliced, fried and salted, but they look fairly similar

the ones that fooled my housemate look a lot more chip than banana

lila

@Mast Okay maybe you are right. But the comment in this context explicitly and shamelessly admits that the author cannot think of a way of expressing their thoughts without being insulting, and this is not the first time I am seeing such mentality being more common on other stacks than Pets. Basic civility advises literally not to say anything if one cannot express their thoughts without being insulting. I could see how being a pedant affects certain things, but in my opinion it is excuse.

Sarov

@lila Problem is, SE incentivizes saying things. What's civility worth in the face of upvotes?

Journeyman Geek

@Sarov why not both?

Sarov

Because civility takes effort.

Journeyman Geek

15:59

lol

As does being a smartass

Sarov

In terms of effort, saying something civil > saying something blunt > saying nothing.
In terms of reward, saying something civil = saying something blunt > saying nothing.

@JourneymanGeek Nah, it just comes naturally. :P

lila

@Mast But overall I understand what do you mean. And you are correct, it just is how the world is. But it is just that, in my opinion, such "culture" is a matter of choice, not immutable state of things that is set in stone because of precision and pedantism required in said fields. I could argue for hours how much precision and pedantism is required in fishkeeping, for instance.

Sarov

@lila "I could argue for hours how much precision and pedantism(sic) is required in fishkeeping" [citation needed]

lila

@Sarov "lila could argue for hours how much precision and pedantism(sic) is required in fishkeeping" - Albert Einstein

Sarov

Well played?

Journeyman Geek

16:11

@lila ""lila could argue for hours how much precision and pedantism(sic) is required in fishkeeping" - Albert Einstein" - Lila

lila

I guess so? :D

@Sarov Why the "sic" by the way, isn't it a word? My web browser underlines pedantism and a typo, but websearch proves it is a word, so what?

@Sarov Look it is a thing look please en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pedantism

Sarov

Hm, I hadn't heard it before. I generally use 'pedantry'.

lila

16:30

ok

pets.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/25342

Sarov

"How can I help my fish?" "Kill it with blades." I...guess that's a frame challenge?

SerenaT

Uhhh I have never owned fish before, but do you need to be able to euthanize them?

Couldnt a vet maybe do that?

Mast

@lila Oh, it's absolutely a choice. Unfortunately it's a choice that has to be made by an entire community to have much effect.

lila

16:55

@Sarov Haha you reminded me of something:

(source)

Sarov

snorts

lila

@Sarov I agree this answer may look a bit insensitive or blunt, but as harsh as it sounds, if the quality of life drops so much that the animal is definitely suffering in agony, then using misericorde should be considered. However, nobody should decide it just based on two photos of the fish. But the owner would surely know the fish better and have the knowledge to make a choice.

Sarov

@lila Sounds like you should add that as a comment to the answer.

lila

17:11

@SerenaT I have never euthanized any fish, but I had instances where it may had been applicable. I am talking about fish who were in progressively worsening conditions, but I had the full knowledge about the nature of their diseases only post factum. I prefered to leave the nature to take its course, the fish were showing signs of will to live, and it was not really prolonged; a few days at most.

Mast

Wouldn't a hammer be faster and thus friendlier than a knife?

lila

@Sarov Maybe you are right, but I got kind of tired of writing "supply" comments; I have the feeling that they are not really that useful (at least mine).

motosubatsu

@lila I have to say I'd take issue with the "answer" because leaped to a conclusion (that the fish needs to be euthanized) and then decided to chastise the OP for (apparently) buying a fish without knowing how to euthanize fish

Sarov

@lila '"supply"'?

Mast

@motosubatsu The answer is unnecessarily snarky at best.

That last line should be removed completely.

Sarov

17:14

@motosubatsu Yeah, it's that conclusion-leaping that I consider dangerous. What if a bunch of people come across this question, read that answer, and immediately jump to 'well I guess I better cut up Sparkle now.'?

Mast

If they're that wacked, there are bigger concerns...

lila

@Mast I am not an expert and please take this with grain of salt, but in case of small fish, like in the relevant question, I think you are right; arguably hammer's issue would be that blunt trauma is more "messy" than "clean" cuts, but if you anatomically know where to aim, then it doesn't matter because the fish gets instantly stunned.

@motosubatsu Okay I am coming back to the answer and, while I do not think it is necessarily that obviously snarky, it is 100% uncalled for.

I mean: it could have a snarky intent behind that sentence, but I am not a mind reader and I have to assume good intent.

And you are welcome to flag it if you want to do it the "official" channel

motosubatsu

@lila I think context matters - if the answer had been posted on a question asking about how to euthanize their obviously-suffering fish, I've be inclined to have given it some leeway

as it is, on that question, it's over a line IMO

@lila I've actually flagged as "not an answer" - I debated whether to flag as R/A but I wasn't quite sure it met that standard

lila

@Sarov I am sorry but on the other hand, I have already said it today that I am a blonde :D and not-native-english. What I meant was "supplemental" :D

Mast

@motosubatsu Wouldn't editing the answer take care of it?

Elmy

17:23

@lila Oh yes, I remember a time when a proper christmas present was 1 orange, a few walnuts, a small bag of chocolate decorations and 1 toy

Sarov

Aah.

motosubatsu

@Mast an edit could remove the snark - but not address the Not-an-Answer aspect

were it not for that I'd probably have just edited out the last line and called it a day

Mast

Ok

lila

@motosubatsu added comment for now, I would downv*te but I have already banned myself from voting any more for today until 2 AM, any debate whether to remove that line or not is still welcome.

I mean, it is 7:30 PM where I live, and I need to go shopping to two places and one of these places closes at 8:00 PM. For now I left the comment and clicked on report "helpful", but if I am to do any other actions then it must wait or another moderator will have to do it meanwhile, see you soon.

Sarov

17:53

"Deciding whether to euthanize an animal or not is really serious and irreversible choice" I mean, it's only irreversible if you choose 'yes'.

Unless your surname is Frankenstein.

lila

18:33

Haha thanks for catching that nonsense and putting a large chom-chom-sized smile on my silly face for the 87654321th time :D I will correct is soon

lila

18:48

@motosubatsu and the other person who flagged the questionable answer, but maybe wants to remain anonymous: both of you have over 4000 reputation and you could vote to delete the answer; 3 votes are enough to delete, so please consider this, thanks (I need to think about this whether to delete or not because of the flags, but if regular users delete it via votes and I am not involved, then it would be "cleaner")

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