The Litter Box

Skippy

09:50

This question appears to be off-topic because it provides no details, is your dog on leash? Are you with him, Is he in your garden barking at passer bys. What is his age, sex, breed, history? Custom flagging only for private beta — Skippy 1 min ago

I just wanted to let people know I am creating custom flags, while we are in private beta only, so save dragging out discussions in meta and comments. I will not be doing this once we by the time we reach public beta, unless it is absolutely necessary

Jeni

14:33

I can't remember what it means to Fulfill a Commitment to a site. Could someone here refresh my memory - I did try searching for the requirements.

ThomasH

@Jeni "Once you've fulfilled your commitment on a new site by asking and answering a few questions, you'll be able to commit to another site." (Area 51 FAQ)

@Jeni Actual details: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/103294/…

ThomasH

15:13

@Skippy I know it must seem to you like I'm stalking you but I really am not. I just disagree with some of your answers because you base them not just on experience but on a theory of how the dog works that is simply wrong.

Since the OP and other visitors of the site will upvote or accept your answer based on whether they think it's correct and will be helpful (ideally, people should really accept an answer after they tried it and it's helped rather than what they think will help), I feel it's important to let them know when an answer contains inaccuracies

Jeni

@ThomasH Thanks for the help!

ThomasH

If it helps, I'm doing it to other people too, it's really nothing personal

Jeni

@ThomasH I'm beginning to think @Skippy and a few others could start a separate chat room for some of the conversations - not all of know him from CogSci or MSO & I'd rather make my own impressions of a person here. However, I may be way off base for mentioning it and if so, I apologize.

ThomasH

@Jeni You can start by not assuming @Skippy's gender, she's female, same as you ;-)

Also, while I don't know her from other sites, she seems to be able to take genuine and constructive criticism and means well, same as all of us hopefully

Ankit Sharma

15:30

@all who is the owner of this room?

Why don't we added feeds in this chatroom yet?

Skippy

@jen

that's a resonable request and is now a dead issue

Pleased to meet you I am Yvette :)

a 46 year old woman, I just love this pic, I'll change it for a day :)

@thom

I totally understand what is bothering you

I see great logic with the pack paradigm, it's just a useful way to explain things

and you're not stalking me, it's great we are all so active here and vetting each other's question (pardon the pun)

@ank this is the cat room ;) for the Pets site.. hey we should call it a cat room

Ankit Sharma

@Skippy but i think we should add our daily questions as feed in this chatroom as its done in other chatrooms

Skippy

@ThomasH I can explain to you more fully my ideas and plan to. They are based on concrete experience plus learning

@ank you can add posts here u want to discuss

Ankit Sharma

@Skippy catroom will be offensive to dog lover or snail lovers :p

Skippy

you arele pining me again :)

snat room

em dat room, you know dat room

Ankit Sharma

15:38

I am saying to add feeds like Movies and TV room

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/1888/…

In which every new question appears automatic in the chat room

Skippy

anyway @tho I'm up late watching alfred hitchcock movie, will talk more during this week.. actually I think you and I should create a separate chat room where we can dicuss our ideas about this modelling, rather than bog down this room

@ank this will eventually have automatic feeds, it's private beta

Ankit Sharma

@Skippy @ThomasH it feels suspicious to have a private chat room ;)

@Skippy why not add automatic feed now??

Skippy

@AnkitSharma that is somethiing to ask SE< I assume they don't figure it is necessary in private beta,, It's not so hard to check the sites at this point

@ank no the chat room would not be private, just on topic for discussing models of canine behavior and for each to express their thinking and realise, we're on the same page ;)

Ankit Sharma

@Skippy room owner can add it anytime but i am not able to see who is the owner.

Skippy

Here the room owner is SE

Ankit Sharma

15:46

Ohhh...

didn't know that

ThomasH

16:03

@Skippy Would love to, just bear in mind it might take me a day or so to reply usually.

iKlsR

17:06

@Skippy Perhaps it would be best to have the community help and put together custom OT reasons, keep in mind that you want these to be as compact and as informative as possible. A post on meta should suffice.

Skippy

@iKlsR I totally agree'

@iKlsR how to I ping a mod for the site?

iKlsR

@Skippy You can't unless they are in chat or were in chat for a while. If it's related to a post, flag it, it will reach them.

@Skippy what are you trying to do?

Skippy

@iKlsR yes, it's not for chat. I am having a look on MSO, about private beta flagging.. thnx :)

iKlsR

@AnkitSharma You guys should have the privilege to create chatrooms. (cc@Ski)

Skippy

@iKlsR yes I know I do, it's a matter of not hijacking people out of here, but working out how to manage the off topic, modeling and citing debates.. We could do it here, but this seems like a good place for people to get to know each other.. I don't want to

iKlsR

17:17

@Skippy If you have the privilege and you see the need for a specific room, create it as long as it's not a duplicate of another. I could see a room called The Kennel being nice for strictly dog related topics. The main chat is usually very general.

Baarn

Is meta discussion about the site in chat really annoying people?

On other sites people would be happy about anything posted in chat

iKlsR

@Baarn heh. I agree.

Ankit Sharma

17:30

@iKlsR i already have

But diverting traffic looked bad to me.

@Skippy so somebody started accusing Australians :p

0

Q: How come we have such a strong Australian contingent?

I see a lot of answers by different people that link to the Australian SPCA, I'm guessing most of these people are actually Australian. Given most SE sites I've been on usually have North American as their strongest contingent (which can be a disadvantage as it seems to sometimes result in US-sp...

discussion

Skippy

@iKlsR I will create such rooms for people if they want, if they can't create them yrt

Ankit Sharma

OOps somebody flagged my post offensive

Skippy

No not your post

Ankit Sharma

@Skippy it showed to me that somebody flagged it but i can't review it because its my own post

Skippy

@kal are you a mod?

kalina

17:36

do I look like a mod to you?

Skippy

you look like a bird to me

Ankit Sharma

@kalina hi....so flag made you come here

kalina

I am a pegasus pony.

Skippy

-1

A: How come we have such a strong Australian contingent?

While Australians might be accustomed to the strangest animals on the planet, they have no knowledge about pets that are considered normal in Europe or North America. At least that would explain why they all ask about cats and dogs and such and nothing about kangaroos, wombats, and platypuses.

kalina

and you think posting that question was flag worthy?

Skippy

17:38

^^^ this answer is what I want to flag, and have been tryiing to

kalina

so, flag the answer

Baarn

why do you want to flag it @Skippy ?

Skippy

@kalina No the answer to it and the comment

Ankit Sharma

@Skippy so you have flagged my post?

kalina

the button to flag an answer is not located in chat

Baarn

17:38

clearly was intended as a joke …

Ankit Sharma

@kalina pony's are off topic here :P Go to mythology.se ;)

Skippy

@kalina we don't have enough people to flag offensive post here and get a result, and clearly some of the community thinks it's funny

iKlsR

what

kalina

@Skippy since your site is in closed beta, I would suggest that if you have an issue with a post on the site, flag it for moderator attention and be patient until one comes along to clean it up

Baarn

I could not take the question serious… On main I'd vote on the question as "primarily opinion based" without a comment. But on meta I though it might be better to simply show how strange the question is

kalina

17:40

the flag link is located on the answer

Skippy

@kalina I was going to be, but the tone of meta is gong downhill

kalina

flagging in chat will never result in something being removed from a site

Skippy

re one comment on the post

ok good to know

kalina

well it's not very positive if your community is becoming toxic before you're out of closed beta

but it's not my place or job to do anything about that

Ankit Sharma

@Skippy flagging in chat is for removing something from chatroom not site.

3ventic

17:41

Hi

kalina

when you flag in chat, every user with 10k+ network reputation see it

and then join your chat to question why you flagged something not flag worthy

3ventic

@kalina That's a wide audience

kalina

@3ventic hence why channels that flag spam get bombarded with users

we get a little circle next to where the "ping" notification is, containing a number detailing the number of flags, which when clicked shows you what was flagged and where

so only use chat flags for offensive things

3ventic

Area51 email has a link with markdown format, which obviously doesn't work in HTML...

Ankit Sharma

@kalina nice description...i think @Skippy has understood it

kalina

17:45

good!

enjoy setting fire to your animals, I'm off to play games

3ventic

@kalina We don't set fire to our animals..

Ankit Sharma

@kalina catch u in M&TV Later

3ventic

Our animals set fire to our furniture

Ankit Sharma

@3ventic LOL

Baarn

@Skippy if you have a problem with one of my posts, you can always reach me in chat. That could've clear things up, especially if you feel offended, which wasn't my intention.

Further I disagree that "the tone of meta is going downhill". There are some quite promising discussions, most of them leading to good results.

Skippy

18:07

@kalina don't make me flag your comment for animal cruelty ... shouts after the pegasus

@Baarn <eta is excellent until two people decided to make racist remarks. Think of things people might say about your nationality and how you might feel. Global community no place for it. Now that is the beginning and end of it. If you need to have fun like that create a gallery chat room and name it the pub (I'm quite serious).. Now it's over, it is passed. we put it behind us and continue forward with out fabulous site OK??

Baarn

I wonder where you saw any racism in my post? I was just joking about common animals in Australia… ? You came up yourself with that upside down thing…

If you ever come up with some joke about Lederhosen, Sauerkraut or German timeliness, be assured that you wont offend me.

Monica Cellio

18:30

@AnkitSharma right now we're ramping up and getting tons of new questions, which is great! But feeding them all into this room would produce something of a flood. I'd rather we not do that until the initial burst dies down some (meaning after the initial burst from public beta dies down too).

@Baarn meta discussion about the site in chat is important (as well as working it out on meta itself). I'd rather chat than have a 20-message back-and-forth in comments.

Baarn

@MonicaCellio that's what I think

discuss it here and post results on meta so other people can see it.

Monica Cellio

@Baarn yeah. Nothing here is official, but chat is a great place to brainstorm, try to understand each other better, and so on. (And goof off. :-) )

Ankit Sharma

@MonicaCellio hhmmmm...kind of agreed

@Skippy i think you took it too personal. In my thinking that's is opinion base unnecessary meta question. Which i have even posted close vote too. No offense to anyone.

@all is it i am the only one who think this is silly question

3

Q: Why does my dog's leg shake/twitch when I scratch certain spots on her body?

My dogs have a certain spot, which when I scratch will cause their legs to start twitching and shaking as if they were scratching the spot themselves. Their lips also stretch back like they're smiling. Why do they do this?

dogs behavior

Baarn

@AnkitSharma I think that is a nice question

While I think that dogs are ticklish like humans, I have no idea if my assumption is correct

Ankit Sharma

@Baarn every tog scratch his leg when you tickle him/her.

Baarn

18:45

While it is assumed to be tickling, are you sure about that?

Maybe it is some kind of reflex

Ankit Sharma

@Baarn reflex....???

I am sure its tickling

Baarn

How can you know that?

I have often heard people claim that, still doesn't make it true

user15026

@AnkitSharma I don't think it is a bad question at all. Wondering why an animal reacts a certain way to a stimulus is not a bad thing at all, especially if you are concerned.

user15026

@AnkitSharma How can you know that? People claim that a lot but to me it kinda seems like we might be trying to force a human characteristic on animals when it might not even remotely be the case

Baarn

I hope this does not end up as yet another "I found this blurb on google" question

Ankit Sharma

18:48

@AshleyNunn @Baarn then i just leave and see if something else come up. My opinion is same but will see what other thinks.

Anyways why this got re-opened

7

Q: What can I do about the black dots on my cat's chin?

I got a new cat a couple weeks ago. She came from a shelter with a clean bill of health. Over the past few days, I've noticed that she's been developing some black spots on her chin that look a bit like acne. What's causing the spots? What can I do about it? Do I need to do anything about it? I ...

cats indoor-cats

user15026

@Baarn I think googling for answers isnt totally terrible, because there is good information that can be found, but I think as with everything, it is making sure that is is good solid info instead of like a bunch of people in a forum kinda randomly deciding on a thing

Ankit Sharma

I mean its vary vague that post get closed then reopen

some question even closed and reopen 2 times.

Baarn

@AshleyNunn true, but currently there are too many answers that cite yahoo.answer or about.com which I consider to be terrible ressources

user15026

@AnkitSharma Posts might go through this, where some people think it should be closed, and others feel it should be open - it takes 5 people to put something on hold, and another 5 people to reopen it, and it is kinda like trying to understand downvotes without anyone commenting - it comes down to some people think it is a good question, others do not

Baarn

@AnkitSharma I guess that is normal on private beta and early public. Some things that should be taken to meta are decided by close and reopen votes

user15026

18:51

I personally don't see an issue with it as a question.

user15026

@Baarn It will happen on any site, really - it happens on Arqade all the time (close,reopen, close, reopen) - eventually, either someone makes a case for it, or people just seem to accept a state and leave it alone.

Baarn

the main issue I have with that question is copyright

user15026

@Baarn That could be said for a lot of questions, though.

Ankit Sharma

@AshleyNunn I also posted the close vote because its a serious question....can be a skin cancer or something which should be taken care by doctor first

not our answers

user15026

And it is easy to make sure the answer is cited appropriately. Copyright is not as scary as it seems - if people take the time and care to cite and such appropriately. it isn't that large an issue

Baarn

18:54

@AshleyNunn I was talking about image copyright. Citing the source is not enough for images

user15026

@AnkitSharma It is serious, but then again, you have to remember, none of us hate our pets - if it was felt that it was actively hurting the pet, and not cosmetic, the person likely would have taken the pet to teh vet at the first sign of different behaviour.

user15026

@Baarn Unless I am greatly mistaken, as long as you find the -original- source, it should be?

Baarn

@AshleyNunn if we tolerate too many of these questions we are likely to end up with people who want to save on the cost of their vet

people often come to fitness.SE to save on their medical bill

Ankit Sharma

@Baarn agreed

Baarn

@AshleyNunn nope, copyright on images always is "don't copy unless you are allowed to"

Ankit Sharma

18:56

I think in medical question we need to draw a line.

user15026

@Baarn I suppose, but then we have to take out any question that deals with different behaviour because they all might be that way

Baarn

I will post a meta question concerning images soon

user15026

@Baarn That isn't accounting for fair use policy, actually

user15026

I mean I am more than willing to do the research, but I suspect there is cases where we can use images from around the internet and still be within acceptable copyright.

user15026

(I like researching things, and I love issues around information sharing and protection.)

Baarn

18:58

People always assume that it is fair use. I disagree, fair use is for educational purposes, but Stack Exchange does not count as that. Stack Exchange isn't some non profit welfare organisation, it makes profit with our posts, so if we "steal" images to enhance a posts value, Stack Exchange makes money using that image.

user15026

@Baarn Yes and no, because you also need to know -how- SE makes money

user15026

And it isn't per click or view or anything of the sort

Baarn

The advertisers still pay the money because they know that there are quality posts that attract a certain userbase

user15026

Also, we need to remember that plagiarism and copyright are two totally different things

user15026

And the copyright is going to vary by image location, repository, etc.

Baarn

19:02

Yepp, I was not trying to mix my copyright statement with my previous statements on plagiarism

user15026

doing all the copyright use research while also trying to keep her cat from eating her cheese at the same time

Baarn

I've never seen people on SE adequately attribute pictures licensed under CC-BY (actually that IS quite difficult to do).

user15026

@Baarn CC-BY is the most forgiving of the CC licenses. You just have to attribute it in the way the author or licensor desires, usually with a link to a webpage.

2

Baarn

@AshleyNunn correct and I've never seen people do that. They just copy the image over to imgur and post it in the question body.

I've never seen an official statement on image copyright - especially if fair use applies - anywhere on SE.

user15026

@Baarn What do you want to see?

Baarn

19:12

under normal condition CC-BY requires you to follow the attribution requirement. If none is explicitly given, the default requirement is the (full) name of the creator and a link to the webpage hosting the image.

user15026

@Baarn Yeah, I am aware.

user15026

Usually that can be put in the source thingie or the description

Baarn

That means below every wikimedia image there has to be "Image courtesy of Awesome dude, you can find it here"

user15026

@Baarn it isn't specified how it has to be done, just that those things need to appear somewhere.

Baarn

the text has to be readable, putting it in a description (alt text) is not enough

user15026

19:14

Fair enough. But that isn't to say image use is impossible, I think we just need to teach people how to do it properly

user15026

I have also found M.SO posts talking about the copyright and how it interacts with the CC license SO uses, so we can also point to those as well :)

user15026

This answer of Jaydles's is a good way of summiing it up I think

Baarn

For some images it is possible to copy them, especially if they are under CC license. But most images are - somewhat sadly - without any license at all. And under those conditions you have to ask the original creator for permission

user15026

@Baarn Which is complicated at best, I agree.

Baarn

@AshleyNunn that answer actually only covers images you created yourself…

user15026

19:20

@Baarn It covers imgur uploads

Baarn

You'd be re-licensing images by uploading them to imgur

you can't put another license on an image you don't own

user15026

I know that

user15026

If you look at his answer, he says they still need to be attributed

Baarn

This topic is damn complicated… I mean I don't care much about pictures from "somewhere" on the internet. But especially images that've been made freely available for anyone to use… at least give them the attribution they deserve

user15026

"Imgur will make no claim of copyright to any images stored by SE on the Image Server (other than Imgur's own copyrighted images and other works, if any)."

user15026

19:22

@Baarn If they are freely available and like copyright free stock images, you actually dont have to.

Baarn

@AshleyNunn with freely available I meant something like CC

Copylefted images, or CC0 or whatever they are called are fine, of course

user15026

@Baarn Then it isn't really free - it is still bound by the CC license and should be attributed according to the rules of that license

user15026

Which I think is what you are saying.

Baarn

Still I think we need a question and answer about this on meta to raise awareness. I guess most people simply don't know about that stuff.

user15026

Correct me if I am wrong, of course! :)

Baarn

19:24

No no, that was what I was trying to say :)

user15026

@Baarn I love this idea - I suspect people forget that images are bound by copyright, because like in school and the like we mostly get taught about the copyright of words, not images

user15026

so people tend to think they can use them however because they were never taught not to

Baarn

I mean, if I was really nitpicky … even cat gifs are copyrighted

but I am not

user15026

Yeah, it really comes down to how much we want to police the site

user15026

and also remembering that really, each subscriber that accepts the TOS (so basically any user) does get told that they are responsible for making sure they don't defy copyright, and that -they- are responsible if someone gets angry

Baarn

19:27

3

user15026

That gif always makes me feel good inside

Baarn

I agree (with the stuff about the TOS and about the gif)

user15026

Yay! :)

user15026

Are you willing to write up a question about this? If not, I can as well, and I have the research stuff I did still open in tabs, so I can write up an answer, as well, if you like

user15026

Whatever you feel like :)

Baarn

19:33

If you want to, you can do that. I am currently in near-sleep mode.

And I think it is best to discuss this topic as soon as possible

user15026

I totally can do that, no problem! :)

user15026

Sleep well when you do! :)

Baarn

Ha thanks, but I'll be awake for some more hours… just not really in the right state of mind to write up anything on a topic like that

user15026

Fair enough, it is a pretty brain-heavy topic. :)

user15026

If you are still awake, though, when I get it finished, please take a look at it and let me know if there is anything you think should be added or changed :)

Baarn

19:38

even a bit more as English isn't my native language :)

yeah, just ping me in chat

user15026

20:10

@Baarn I wrote a huge answer here.

user15026

Let me know if you have any thoughts on it! :)

Baarn

Wow that's a lot of text :)

sounds good to me. I like the guideline aspect of the text, telling people how they should do it, instead of just telling people what they shouldn't do.

user15026

@Baarn Yeah, it turned rather long

user15026

@Baarn I figured education is better than just yelling

Baarn

@AshleyNunn so true, still I always forget that

user15026

20:20

It took me a long time to learn that and remember it.

Jeni

21:29

@Skippy - Hi Yvette, I'm Jeni (real name = name here).

@ThomasH - I have seen separate chat rooms used when members wanted to carry on a conversation about a specific topic - they are not private, anyone can enter the room - it just seemed a good use of a room.

As for the suggestion here by several of adding all the questions to the feed, I found that there was less "chat" when that was true, but I'm sure it depends on which SE you're looking at! This beta pet site seems off to a great start!

user15026

@Jeni It works in some sites like Arqade's chat where there are alwayhs people talking, but in other cases it sometimes floods and ruins the flow of chat and people seem less likely to cjat

Lix

but some users are always listening....

mwaahahaha!! Vanishes into the smoke

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