last day (16 days later) » 

4:12 PM
room topic changed to Teka-Teki Silang (TTS) Kriptik Bahasa Indonesia Chatroom: For non-Indonesian speakers (though I guess Indonesian speakers are okay too) trying to solve said puzzle by athins (puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/94326/…) (no tags)
 
4:30 PM
A direct translation of 14. Salah satu nama sungai kosong. (3) seems to be: One (of) name river empty
Google translate says One river name is empty
 
4:44 PM
None of the Indonesian words GT offers for "empty" has three letters.
"salah" on its own means something like "wrong" or "false", apparently, and "satu" on its own means "one" ... but somehow "salah satu" means "one of".
 
5:18 PM
5d. Saat ketiak berantakan! (6) Saat = {time, when, while, hour, moment, instant}; ketiak = armpit (doesn't seem to have other meanings; no other obv BahInd words for armpit); berantakan = {falls apart, untidy, in a mess, in disarray}. Seems obv to have "saat" as def and KETIAK* as wordplay. And, aha, one translation for "moment" is KETIKA.
So 5d is KETIKA. Nonzero progress!
Sorry, 6d not 5d.
1a. Bumbu Jepang, jual murah! Tanpa pakaian dalam pulau di Raja Ampat. GT says: "Japanese spices, cheap sale! Without clothes on the island in Raja Ampat." Raja Ampat is a group of islands. Short-named islands in the group: Gam, Fam, Gag, Ayau. (There may be others.)
Presumably it's the inside of a word meaning "cheap sale" (in some sense) plus something like gam/fam/gag/ayau, to get a kind of Japanese spice (or something referred to as such in BahInd).
"bumbu" can mean "flavouring" etc. more generally as well as "spice" so I guess it could be any flavouring regarded by the Indonesians as Japanese.
(For "bumbu jepang" on its own, GT suggests "Japanese seasoning".)
"tawar" is one alleged translation for "bargain" and its other senses all have to do with insipidity, which would be consistent with its meaning "bargain" in the sense of "cheap thing". Unfortunately, "trayau" doesn't appear to be a kind of Japanese seasoning.
Ah, I think I got another one.
13a. Demikian pula permainan kata Bahasa Inggris. GT says "Likewise English word play". And "pun" in BI has "even" as one translation. I bet it's close enough to "demikian". So 13a is PUN.
This means that 14d which we were discussing earlier begins with N. (If PUN is right.)
If the BI for "name" is "nama" then I suspect N is an acceptable abbreviation for it just as in English. So maybe we have N plus first&last letters of a river-name (or a word meaning river?), to mean "one of".
Unfortunately nothing GT suggests for "one of" or a few other similar things I've tried has form N--.
I went through all the rivers on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_Indonesia beginning with vowels and affixed first+last to N, but didn't find anything obviously meaning "one of" in BI.
No N<vowel><any letter> combination seems to be a BI word meaning anything like "one of".
I don't see any N-- river names either.
4d. Terjemahkan ke Bahasa Inggris: bibir di balik tablet (3). GT says "Translate to English: lips behind the tablet". I bet "bibir" can be "lip" as well as "lips" so we're doing LIP< to get PIL which means "pill". ("Tablet" in BI does mean "pill" among other things.)
So I'm pretty sure 4d is PIL.
Or maybe it could be LIP, actually.
Let's see whether 11a begins with L or P.
11a. Pelengket salah satu jajanan tradisional tanpa pegas. (3) GT says: "Sticking one of the traditional snacks without springs."
"Pelengket" on its own is "stickiness". No obvious 3-letter BI words for "sticking" or "stickiness".
"tanpa" is "without"; "pegas" is { spring, pedal, carpet beater }.
Another word for "spring" is PER; perhaps there's a snack from which we can remove PER?
Yes! LEMPER is a snack and LEM is glue. So 11a is LEM and it turns out 4d was indeed PIL rather than LIP.
So, 5a is -K-I- which would probably be very informative if we had an Indonesian word list.
5a. Ujung alam baka tidak ada di dalam Bahasa Inggris. (5) for which GT says "The end of the afterlife is not in English". "Ujung" = "end" in various senses; end, tip, point, extremity, butt. "Alam" = nature, realm, world & various related adjectives; "baka" = eternal, everlasting, line, descent, family; "alam baka" = afterlife, hereafter, beyond; literal meaning clearly something like "eternal realm" or "world to come".
tidak = no, not, do not, etc. ada = exists, be, there is, etc. di & dalam both mean "in"; together they mean something like "inside" or "within", though GT wants "in the". And of course Bahasa Inggris = English.
It feels like this ought to be something like an English word meaning "not" or "is not", but I'm drawing a blank.
Of course "ujung alam" could mean M or maybe A (the latter is more likely given the letters we have).
Don't know whether the grammar permits the last bit to mean "inside" or "not inside" in English.
Not having much luck with that. Let's try another.
20a. Warna nila yang memiliki kemampuan supranatural? (6) GT says "Tilapia that has supernatural abilities?" but without the last bit wants to translate the first portion as "indigo" or "the colour indigo" or similar.
("Nila" means both "tilapia fish" and "indigo colour".)
"Warna" specifically means "colour" so I think it has to be the colour, not the fish.
Haven't yet found any words for magic, magical creatures, etc., that also mean blue or purple.
(I wondered whether maybe turquoise or lapis lazuli, via suggestions of maybe-thought-exotic Turks or Egyptians, would lead somewhere, but no luck so far.)
 
6:49 PM
@GarethMcCaughan Nice!
@GarethMcCaughan it can also be bamboo?
@GarethMcCaughan Actually I found one
If kosong can mean nought NOL is a plausible option
 
How does that work?
 
it translates to zero, which is fairly close to empty
 
where's the "one of"?
(or is it just "one river"?)
 
KOSONG means empty, remember>
Perhaps it's ONE NAME OF RIVER
though probably not
 
So there's a river called Nol?
 
6:55 PM
not that i could find ?
 
then I don't understand how it works
 
Just suggestion
 
I don't see how it can work if kosong is the definition, because then "one name of river" has to be the wordplay. Unless somehow N = one of and OL = name of river or something?
 
Yeah, you're right
I was thinking empty river could be a def, but probably not
Is it possible that SALAH could be intepreted as FALSE, so it's FALSE ONE RIVER NAME IS EMPTY?
And EMPTY clues a sort of deletion?
 
All sorts of things are possible. I don't really know what's plausible because this is a language I don't know :-).
 
7:00 PM
true
If it does require some deletion, that would be really annoying
The thing is, using "false" as a def is hard bc GT doesn't suggest any word that has a three letter word
Which ones have you solved, Gareth?
 
11a 4d 6d 13d. And I just did 17d which is rather straightforwardly PhD.
(The first bit means "doctoral study abroad".)
 
ah
 
(So 15a ends PA which seems like it would be informative, if I knew anything.)
Mostly AFK for a little bit now.
 
okay I'll try to pick something up
 
7:19 PM
Regardng 15a:
Seseorang yang belum tentu sedia sebelum nilai tertinggi.
GT says, "Someone who is not necessarily available before the highest score."
However, if we split it, between tentu and sedia, it says
Someone who is not certain / available before the highest value.
So the wordplay "available before the highest value" seems pretty straightforward
Except... Idk any word I can use
 
8:03 PM
Ah, duh, 1a is MISOOL, one of the Raja Ampat islands: MISO (a Japanese flavouring) plus OL which is OBRAL (sale, meaning when a shop reduces prices) without its insides.
 
ahhhhh
 
1d. Marah: tidak ada kereta api pelat logam! (3) Known to begin with M. GT translation: "Angry: no metal plate trains!" but more literally it's "Angry: not exists trains plate metal!". MURKA means angry and KA (kerata api, as in the clue) means train(s), but it doesn't appear that MUR means metal plate or plate metal. Alas!
2d. Setuju lingkungan kehidupan tanpa metode terbalik. (3) GT translation: "Agree to the environment of life without the inverse method." Seems like it ought to mean "agree" or "agree to" and be something like "ecosystem" minus "way" backwards, but I haven't yet found a BI word meaning "agree" that's O--.
(Not necessarily "ecosystem"; might be something more like "living quarters".)
"metode" is probably "cara" -> ARAC, "sistem" -> METSIS, or jalan -> NALAJ; other words with that meaning are longer.
"lingkungan kehidupan" -> "living environment" when I give GT just those two words
Ah, it's EKOSISTEM minus SISTEM, and that is reversed to get OKE
which = OK = agree.
So that's 2d.
3d. Penggosok pacuan tanpa plat nomor Sumatera Barat. (3) First letter known to be L. GT says "Scouring race without the West Sumatra number plate". I can't find any words meaning "scouring" or anything close to it with only 3 letters.
West Sumatra number plates are BA.
Ah, a race is a LOMBA.
Unfortunately, if LOM means anything then GT is failing to tell me what
There's a place in Indonesia called Lom, which is also the name of its people.
I bet this is LOM but if so it seems to need knowledge I don't have.
 
8:32 PM
Ofc Gareth is singlehandedly solving this
Who else would be not only intelligent but also stubborn enough to do so
 
Pretty sure 7d is REMOTE, which is an anagram of METEOR. The def part of the clue means "remote control". GT doesn't exactly seem to know that word but I bet it's right.
If everything above is correct then 5a is OK-IR. There don't appear to be any BI words matching that pattern so probably at least one thing above is wrong. GT offers oksir -> oysters but that seems to be Turkish, not Indonesian.
Ah, 3d is not LOM. BALAP is also a race, and LAP is something to do with cleaning.
 
how are you solving this?
 
In which case I bet 10a will be TEMPE but I haven't looked at it yet
I take a clue, translate it with Google Translate, check out the individual words in case e.g. word order is confusing, try to think how it could work as a cryptic clue, then go looking for alternate meanings of things.
 
ic
@GarethMcCaughan Tempeh is a soy product
It fits the def
 
I know, that's why I expect it to be the answer. Haven't looked at the wordplay, though.
The clue is something like "time doughnut replaced by the lowest value, food from soybeans" (the GT translation tries to be helpful and I think makes it harder to make sense of as a cryptic clue) so it'll be TEMPO with O->E. Not sure why exactly the E, but there's bound to be a reason.
 
8:46 PM
hm
E as a constant??
I'm not being very helpful sorry
 
So, 5a is AKHIR which means "end". Haven't looked at the wordplay yet but it's got to be right.
I assume we're going to take something meaning afterlife and remove something meaning English from it.
AKHIRAT is afterlife.
Not sure why AT is anything to do with English but it's obviously right anyway. Maybe it's the inside of some shorter word meaning the English language.
(no, that doesn't seem to be the case; so far as I can tell English is just Bahasa Inggris.)
Current state of play, if I can get an image to upload:
 
currently working on 10d and 15a
 
@North Does that mean you'd rather I left those alone for you to work on?
 
@GarethMcCaughan A subtle way of saying yes
@GarethMcCaughan Or rather, I would prefer that you focus on the other clues first
 
Happy to do that. Let me know if you either solve or abandon either of those.
 
8:54 PM
Okay, thank you
 
8a. Sudah kubilang kan, disingkat di Inggris: janji tidak ada Amien Rais! (3) GT says: "I told you, abbreviated in English: promise no Amien Rais". IKRAR is promise, removing AR gives IKR, which I think is not-so-infrequently used to abbreviate "I know, right?", which I'm guessing may be roughly equivalent to a better translation of "Sudah kubilang kan".
At which point, despite my inability to find any actual evidence for it, I'm betting 1d really is MUR.
OK, 9d is naughty because it has an indirect anagram in it.
A kartua keluagra is a family ID card; all that actually matters here is that it's abbreviated KK. Inside that we have ANTU, an anagram of UNTA meaning camel. KANTUK means drowsiness. 9d. Hewan gurun tersesat di tengah kartu keluarga yang membuat menguap. (6) GT says "Desert animals get lost in the middle of a family card that makes yawn."
 
9:11 PM
Okay I'm almost positive the definition of 10d is TERASI (bumbu sambal, split is at serpeti), now I gotta find the wordplay.
Ah ha! 10d is T(+ERA)SI
 
Looks good. Well done!
 
Yay! My first CC solved... like ever
 
19a. Dengki di balik sebangsa pohon kayu. (5) Dengki = spiteful = envious = sirik. di balik = in reverse. sebangsa pohon kaku = tree named after a country, or something like that; KIRIS = a particular kind of tree grown for its wood; its Latin name is Belamcasa chinensis. So 19a is KIRIS.
I suspect 14d will be (not NOL but) NIL, probably something to do with the river Nile (which is referenced, I think, by both meanings of NILA mentioned above).
Haven't actually reminded myself just how the clue goes yet, though.
oh, I think it's just a double def
(I bet NIL is the Indonesian name for the Nile)
and there are a bunch of redundant words.
Yup.
 
9:29 PM
Pretty sure 15a is SIAPA, definition being "seoseorang" (SOMEONE)
gotta find the wordplay
Ohhhhh
 
I suspect 16d is ISI which would fit with that
 
Aha!
nilai means SCORE
SO rather than highest value, it's highest score
SIAP(+A)
 
but I don't understand its wordplay. (ISI means content, matter, etc., which is near enough to "inti" which is centre, guts, kernel, essence, etc.)
OK, I'm putting in SIAPA and ISI. Current state of grid incoming.
 
okay
 
9:34 PM
nvm
yea
 
hmm
 
duh
20a is just INDIGO
and there's nothing specifically Indonesian about it
it's just the new-age-y "indigo child" nonsense
 
cool i call dibs on 18s
wait
nope
 
Jesus. You guys are impressive
 
9:36 PM
i'll just do 12
 
OK, then I'll see if I can get anywhere with the 18s
 
Oh duh
I think 12 is KRIPTIK
Gotta solve the wordplay
hm actually
I'm stuck on the wordplay, so I think it might be wrong.
It fits the &lit really well though
and "TTS" as def
wait
ddef
Did athin literally do a ddef&lit?
KRIPTIK
TTS as first def
"ini penuh teka-teki" means "It's full of puzzles
 
18d might be EKO which means echo ~= agree = setuju
that would make 18a EE- which seems slightly unlikely
 
@GarethMcCaughan does 12a look good?
EEK?
Like screaming?
 
Let me have a look. Seems plausible.
 
9:46 PM
idk
 
(12a I mean, not EEK)
12a looks to me more like a non-&lit ddef but I might be missing something
(and it feels a bit weak to me, but I don't really trust my judgement about Indonesian cryptic crosswords)
anyway, I'd be extremely surprised if it were wrong.
So, on the 18s, I think EKO can't be the answer for 18d because GT doesn't know of any BI words of form EE-.
 
@GarethMcCaughan so it's not KRIPTIK?
 
why not?
as I said, I'd be extremely surprised if it were wrong
 
ohh i misread it
18a is TES i think
dedfinition exam
 
plausible; how would the wordplay go?
 
9:55 PM
that's what i'm looking for
well i learned tidak means "no"
or "not"
 
yup
If 18a is TES then 18d is T-O and I can't find anything that fits. So maybe INDIGO is wrong after all?
 
maybe?
it could be CEK
means check?
so exam i.e. to look
 
could be
if you translate examination into Indonesian, GT offers you "cek up"...
There don't seem to be any C-O words either
but maybe 18d is an abbreviation or something
maybe some brand of cleaning cloths or something like that
 
I gtg
gl
 
thanks!
 
10:20 PM
the only way i could see TES is
if you reverse the SETUJU
drop uju somehow
TES
I don't think 20 is indigo
bc if 18a is cek
and 18d is CAP
"Alternatively, a copper block stamp called a cap (Javanese pronunciation: [tʃap]; old spelling tjap) is used to cover large areas more efficiently.[20]"
@GarethMcCaughan
idk wordplay
 
that sounds interesting
I wondered about reversing SETUJU too but I don't really see any justification for doing it.
What part of 18d would be defining CAP?
(it seems like an awful coincidence, if 20a is not INDIGO, that the clue seems to include a definition of "indigo" and the answer matches I-D---.)
 
10:35 PM
hmm
The black stain cleaning cloth? part?
 
What's the connection between a black stain cleaning cloth and a copper block stamp?
Note that the "indigo child" thing is apparently a thing in Indonesian as well as in English: id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anak_indigo
 
hm you're right
i saw black and was likr
why noyt
@GarethMcCaughan i thought it said black
I'm stuck
 
11:04 PM
@GarethMcCaughan The only reason I feel iffy is that INDIGO is not an indonesian word
 
You saw the page on the Indonesian Wikipedia that I posted a link to?
(Which not only uses that word but uses it in the relevantly new-agey way)
It's a loan-word, of course, but it's certainly no more out of place in this crossword than IKR or PHD.
 
11:33 PM
hm alright i'll concede
 
11:51 PM
@North @GarethMcCaughan be careful not to flip the 18a and 18d! 18a is for cloth, 18d is for agree-disagree
 
yup
I've got 'em the wrong way around at least once or twice in my head.
so far the best I've been able to come up for with either of them is that a DEK is a blanket so might be clued by "kain", but I don't know how any of the wordplay for that would work.
@athin Would you like to confirm (or deny) that what we think we have so far is correct?
 
@GarethMcCaughan I gladly confirm that this board is all correct so far! :D
 
Jolly good.
 
@GarethMcCaughan ah this is also correct, two more!
 
I have dark suspicions that at least one of the remaining two is not actually a B.I. word (but is an abbreviation, person's name, product name, etc.). This is not a request for you to tell me whether or not I'm right; just letting you know that I suspect, whether rightly or not.
 
11:59 PM
to lead you, both words are B.I. words, and also not an abbreviation
 
OK, noted.
 

  last day (16 days later) »