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Rand al'Thor

07:55

Well, Korean folklore is certainly going to set a new record for votes/views on a topic challenge question.

Mithical

08:34

twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1281534833320222721

Rand al'Thor

Q: What evidence is there for Tolkien's One Ring being based on the Ring of Silvianus?

I recently heard a theory that parts of Tolkien's legendarium and the Lord of the Rings story may have been inspired by the real-life Ring of Silvianus: As Wheeler consulted with J. R. R. Tolkien on the name of the god invoked in the curse, the ring and curse may have inspired the One Ring in...

It's not the only mysterious thing to be found at Silchester either. There was an eagle found there in the 19th century, which inspired Rosemary Sutcliffe to write a novel connecting that mystery with the mystery of the disappearance of the Ninth Legion.

Bookworm

Q: What religion is suggested by the "God" in the Korean sun/moon origin story?

In the Korean folk story 해와 달이 된 오누이, translated here as "The Origin of the Sun and the Moon" from Pyun Yung-tai, Tales from Korea (Seoul, 1948), two children are pursued by a tiger and end up becoming the sun and the moon. To escape the tiger, they call on God to let down a chain from the sky so...

religion cultural-context folk-tales korean-literature

4 hours later…

Tsundoku

12:42

Should we synonymise the-lion-the-witch-and-the-wardrobe with the-chronicles-of-narnia?

Bookworm

Q: What is the evidence that Flemish fairy tales began with the words “back when the animals could still speak”?

In an answer to the question Why do many Korean folk tales start with “back when tigers smoked”?, user @Flater, who comes from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium (i.e. Flanders), claims that the Dutch counterpart of "back when tigers smoked" is "back when animals still spoke" ("toen de dieren nog...

history-of-literature dutch-literature fairy-tales

Tsundoku

@Randal'Thor I hope people here are already familiar with the ring of Gyges, which could make its wearer invisible.

Rand al'Thor

@Tsundoku Done. (I wanted to do that as soon as the tag was created, but waited to see if anyone else would mention it.)

1 hour later…

Bookworm

13:58

Q: Novel with a spy/assassin who helps the grand-daughter of a Nazi hunter, speaks Basque from learning it from a book, escapes a cave through water

I'm pretty sure I read this just a few years ago, but that it is an older story, maybe from the 60s or the 70s. I think it starts with the main character descending into a cave with someone else helping in running the belaying cable (which is a metal cable on an electric winch, I think) and then ...

story-identification novel

3 hours later…

Tsundoku

16:36

@Bookworm Isn't it a bit strange that this answer about "back when tigers smoked" got 12 upvotes without showing a single shred of knowledge about Korean folk tales? SE at its worst, if you ask me.

North Læraðr

17:06

@Tsundoku Yeah, it’s honestly a bit disappointing and also insulting

Also @Randal'Thor you are asking really good questions about Korean folklore. I think i actually talked briefly about the Korean folklore “god” in my proposal, but I’d be happy to elaborate. In a couple days :P

@Bookworm I feel as though Flater’s answer here doesn’t actually answer the question, and is therefore the perfect example of something which should be flagged as “not an answer”.

Tsundoku

@NorthLæraðr You read my mind ;-)

North Læraðr

This is Stack Exchange after all, not Quora.

Rand al'Thor

@NorthLæraðr I was thinking that at first, as the first section of the answer seems to be mostly commentary on the question. But the middle section was good enough for me to upvote the answer.

North Læraðr

Anyhow it’s been flagged as “Not an answer”

Idk it’s still sounds like a rant to prove I’m right rather than an answer?

Tsundoku

@Randal'Thor None of it answers my question; it just sidesteps it. Just like the answer about "back when tigers smoked". I have advised Flater to post the last part, about the origin of the phrase, as a separate self-answered question.

Rand al'Thor

17:27

@NorthLæraðr Thanks! I'm interested to learn about a topic that I knew zero about before this month. Glad to know my questions aren't coming across as too naive :-)

North Læraðr

No, it’s not naive at all. I don’t expect someone to properly be able to answer that without knowing both the culture and the language

1 hour later…

Rand al'Thor

18:51

What's the difference between fairy-tales and folk-tales?

Is a fairy tale just a fantasy folk tale?

Tsundoku

Historically, folk tales were passed on orally, until someone (e.g. the brothers Grimm) came along and started recording them. From that point on they became gradually undistinguishable from fairy tales that had been made up by authors such as Charles Perrault. Some fairy tales that were written by authors we know have been around so long that we distinction has blurred even more. That's just off the top of my head, without doing research, though.

The tales recorded by the brothers Grimm were also modified from edition to edition, so those from the first edition were closer to the originals than those in later editions. However, the last edition of their folk tales / fairy tales is the one that gets reprinted most.

The current description of fairy-tales is not exactly helpful :-(

German literary studies use terms such as "Volksmärchen" (~ folk tale) and "Kunstmärchen"; the latter category has a known author.

Rand al'Thor

Some very quick research, without checking the reliability of sources, tells me that the difference has long been the subject of debate, but ...

... fairy tales are a subgenre of folk tales tending to include more magical and unrealistic events and be written folktales credited to an author.

@Tsundoku Without looking, let me guess: a short description added in the early private beta days.

I wonder if the fairy-tales tag should be synonymised as a subset of folk-tales then.

Tsundoku

19:08

@Randal'Thor The definition "written folktales credited to an author" makes my skin crawl. "written folktale-like stories credited to an author" would be more accurate.

Rand al'Thor

When a folk tale is written down, does it cease to be a folk tale?

"written ex-folktales credited to an author" :-)

Tsundoku

The person who records a folk tale does not count as its author.

Rand al'Thor

Formally no, but a lot of people who don't know so much about oral traditions probably think the Brothers Grimm were the authors of all those stories.

Hmm, and I didn't even add the folk-tales tag to this question ...

I suppose it makes sense to have a separate oral-tradition tag, since not all oral traditions are folk tales?

Tsundoku

Myths and legends are (or were at some point) also oral literature and are distinct from folk tales.

Tsundoku

19:24

@Randal'Thor Does that mean you'd rather synonymise them than making the distinction clearer? I mean a distinction along the line of Volksmärchen (folk tale) and Kunstmärchen (having a known author).

I have just rechecked the distinction between the two German concepts in Märchen by Max Lüthi, a German researcher who specialised in the genre.

The Wikipedia entry for folktale correctly points out its oral nature, but the entry for fairy tale appears to mess the whole thing up.

3 hours later…

Tsundoku

22:44

Just saw this in the HNQ list: Should I ground my body when working with 200V+? Somebody has been learning things the hard way; it caused ... quite a shock.

Bookworm

23:10

Q: Origin of the phrase “back when the animals could still speak” in Dutch fables or fairy tales

In Dutch, some fables or fairy tales (or both) begin with the words "[lang geleden] toen de dieren nog spraken / konden spreken", i.e. "[a long time ago] back when the animals still spoke / could still speak". While it is not clear how common this type of introduction is in fable or fairy tales, ...

history-of-literature dutch-literature folk-tales fairy-tales

Bookworm

23:58

Q: Story about a European captain marrying a tribal woman?

I am trying to find the name of a story. The plot is set in the age when Europeans were sailing to the Americas and contacting the local tribes. My memory is vague but here are some of the points I can remember and hopefully in the order they happened: This is probably not how the story begins b...