The Reading Room

^^

BTW, @Ash, I was wondering if maybe you could recommend me a romance novel or author with similar qualities to the romance subplots in Seanan McGuire's InCryptid series?

user15026

Hm, I'm not sure what you mean

user15026

What qualities do you like in her romance subplots?

Hmmm I'm not exactly sure. I haven't read enough romance to really be able to point at particular elements. [ponders]

I like that the people tend to respect each others' skills and abilities, and come to rely on them, and that the relationship grows through working together that way.

Like, even when Verity can't trust Dominic's motives in Discount Armageddon she can trust his competence, and underestimates it at her peril (like when he crashes her dance performance because she was confident he couldn't track her there).

2:05 AM

I guess I also like the "we have things in common but don't know if that means we're actually friendly, rivals, or something else" opening situation common to her work.

user15026

5:26 AM

Hm, I am scared that most of what I'd think of would be too...idk, romance-y?

user15026

Because, well.

user15026

You might like some of the Rogue anthologies (Rogue Desire, Rogue Affair, Rogue Acts) - they're all resistance/protest/political themed romances, some of which do that thing. I feel like maybe some of Zoe York's stuff (her Pine Harbour stuff maybe) might potentially fit some of that...

user15026

And the Rogue anthologies are cheap, and they're a variety of authors so you can kinda get a feel for stuff, and short stories.

user15026

Tessa Dare's Spindle Cove stuff might also work (they're very lighthearted and can be kinda silly but in a fun way)

@Ash I am asking for romance recommendations.

user15026

5:33 AM

I know, I've just gotten burned so many times by friends who go "recommend me a romance" and then go "BUT IT IS TOO MUCH ROMANCE" like hello what did you expect

[blink] If it's too much romance, that's on my head.

user15026

Yeah, sorry, I should've trusted you a bit more, I am just super wary because so often people reading my romance recs, if they don't already read romance, leads to people mocking me for reading romances

user15026

so I just get a little gun-shy as it were

I enjoyed Dangerous Books For Girls and I have a history of reading and writing Harry Potter fanfic during the Wilderness Years after Goblet of Fire.

user15026

@BESW Okay, that is reassuring

5:38 AM

I know there's a sliding scale continuum and while I'm sure there's a "too much" limit for me, neither of us know where that is right now.

user15026

Nope :)

user15026

The Zoe York stuff and the Rogue anthos are self-pubs so they're cheapish, Tessa Dare is a little more money

Lighthearted and silly sounds good.

user15026

Oh, then Tessa Dare will totally be up your alley! She is good at that

user15026

most of her stuff is historicals, and they're just super fun

5:44 AM

Nice. I'm not sure how I feel about historicals, but that's probably because I haven't read any!

user15026

One of the Spindle Cove books (I think it's one of those at least) features someone who effectively is dealing with the fandom around her father's books, it's cute

user15026

(All of the Spindle Cove books are standalone - the characters all intermingle but they can be read alone if you don't mind sometimes seeing who ended up with who)

Cool.

user15026

(Sorry, I really like her stuff and I tend to hyperfocus on romances so I get really excited about talking about them)

That's absolutely okay.

@Ash I consider AJ Hall's Lust Over Pendle version of the last three years to be superior in most regards to JK Rowling's, and on reflection the Neville/Draco romance in that series is probably also a good measure of what I'd like in romance more generally--it fits reasonably well with what I like in InCryptid's romance subplots.

user15026

5:47 AM

I still have to read that, you've mentioned it a few times

user15026

I should look it up, my main issue is I have trouble reading anything overly long on the computer

It's also available as an epub or mobi.

Dunno if phone/tablet/reader is distinct enough from computer to matter.

I know I can read on my phone with MoonReader a lot longer than on the computer because the brightness/color is more adjustable, and my mother has one of those e-ink readers that doesn't give off any light of its own at all.

@Ash I will talk your ear off about Lust Over Pendle or Albert Campion, given half the chance.

(See also: the representation of vampires in popular culture.)

Somewhere in this chat is my defense of Twilight's vampires based on historical literary precedent and internal allegorical logic.

user15026

6:20 AM

@BESW yeah, if I can get it as epub that means I can pop it on my reader which makes it 1000 percent easier!

yey!

user15026

I will have to remember to do that in the morning when I am not all cozy under a million blankets.

Aw.

user15026

I have made a reminder so I don't forget! It might be a little bit til i get around to reading it but I would be sure to tell you when I do

I look forward to hearing your opinion.

I'm putting Tessa Dare on my reading lists.

user15026

6:30 AM

Awesome, let me know what you think!

user61230

7:22 AM

Having finished Zen, I can safely say: you are missing very little worthwhile.

2

10:33 AM

Thanks for the opinion @Zyerah, I was going to reread it :P

Last night I had a conversation with someone who was struggling to understand the themes of Native Son.

Have you seen this?

Nope. I don't have a lot of interest in Native Son except as a historical influence.

Du Bois, Mosley, LaValle--they're more of interest to me.

But last night somebody at a party was trying to suss out the purpose and effect of Bigger Thomas' portrayal as what they considered completely unsympathetic, without real depth or motive.

It got me thinking about how it's positioned against works like The Souls of Black Folk and The Ballad of Black Tom.

10:55 AM

Have you read Uncle Tom's Cabin?

Nope.

I think I'll watch it on YouTube, cya :-)

12:29 PM

@Ash Thoughts so far: I like Susanna, but I'm a little disappointed that she probably won't be getting an arc because she seems pretty much without flaw from the start. That said, Bram is a creepy harasser and Susanna deserves better than any of the men introduced so far. I assume this is an "improved by knowing you" plot, but Tessa Dare is going to have to work to earn the ending, because she's already done a great job of convincing me he's not worth it.

12:49 PM

I mean to say, I assume that at this point I'm supposed to be going "ooh, he's not good enough for her!" but it feels like the point may have been oversold.

If Dare can pull off a convincing turnaround I will put on a hat for the express purpose of doffing it respectfully.

Q: In Mansfield Park, why did Maria Bertram leave her husband even though she'd know it'd be wrong?

2:38 PM

0

Q: Meaning of the quote

Choice is a subtle form of disease. - Don DeLillo, Running Dog What does this quote mean? Can someone explain it, please? I googled a lot but didn't get any proper explanation. And if this kind of question is not allowed here, let me know. I will remove the question.

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I just finished reading Mansfield Park, and so far after (5 books) it is my favorite. However there are something which I may unintentionally skip over. I understand that Maria was a selfish person who thought herself could do no wrong. However I believe that she mush have known that leaving her...

jane-austen

3:18 PM

@BESW Did you ever read Terry Pratchett's Nation? I just reread it over Christmas, and I reiterate my recommendation of it. It's probably not a totally accurate portrayal of Pacific islanders (the author's excuse being that it's an alternate universe and not technically set in this world), but it's definitely respectful of them, with a twist at a certain point which even goes beyond that.

user15026

3:43 PM

@Zyerah good to know!

user15026

@BESW I feel like she does.

Q: What were the original titles/structure in The Rime of the Ancient Mariner?

4:14 PM

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Coleridge's famous poem "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" has its constituent parts titled differently in different editions / online sources. For example: Lit2Go has "Part the First", "Part the Second", and so on. Poetry Foundation has "Part I", "Part II", and so on. Project Gutenberg has "Par...

samuel-coleridge the-rime-of-the-ancient-mariner

@Mithrandir How are you getting on with Jude?

4:31 PM

@Randal'Thor not very far yet, been busy with other things

Hamlet

4:55 PM

@Randal'Thor "it's definitely respectful of them" if you say so...

5:41 PM

Why is the tag called samuel-coleridge instead of samuel-taylor-coleridge?

Or is it just me who's always heard about him under the latter name?

@Randal'Thor I don't know what you're talking about.

(A quick Google search revealed that yes, it's more common with the other name, so I went ahead and renamed.)

:-D

You could've kept the old one as a synonym though. People might type in samuel-coleridge without stopping after samuel to see the autocomplete thing.

status-completed

Q: Which original Persian poem of Rumi does this refer to?

8:21 PM

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Does anyone know which is the Persian text for the below poem by Rumi ? “I choose to love you in silence… For in silence I find no rejection, I choose to love you in loneliness… For in loneliness no one owns you but me, I choose to adore you from a distance… For distance will shield me from pa...

poetry rumi persian-literature

8:48 PM

@Randal'Thor I'm still skeptical. It's on my list but I expect it'll take a lot of patience to read.

9:02 PM

If the "twist" you're referring to is that Pasifika peoples are the scattered and ignorant descendants of an ancient civilization powered by Western-style science rather than their own indigenous epistemologies, then I'm not sure how that's respectful. It smacks of degeneration and ignores the extraordinary pre-Contact accomplishments of real-world Pasifika peoples.

Hamlet

9:13 PM

@BESW but western-style science is the best!

@Ash Good to know. I am a fan of stories about people not being as incorrigible as they seem.

user15026

@BESW Then I hope this will work out for you :)

It's kind of interesting to see how "knowing the ending" makes me more invested in the starting scenario.

"Hi, I'm your romantic lead."
"Yey, you're pretty cool."
"Hi, I'm her inevitable partner."
"Nooo you do not deserve her!"

It would be a very different dynamic if I wasn't aware of the formula to be followed, because the "inevitable partner" bit wouldn't be there.

Q: What is the nature of the relationship between the Comtessa and the clay manservant?

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I'm reading Fallen London, which is essentially a choose your own adventure story that you can read online. I've gotten to the story about the Comtessa, and I'm at a bit of a dilemma: The text is a bit contradictory about the relationship between the two characters: on one the Comtessa's eyes ...

interactive-fiction fallen-london

@Hamlet I don't think a wayfinder would consider a Western-style star chart remarkable in the least; it wouldn't be helpful and they'd probably laugh at people who need to write down in such detail the least changeable part of navigating.

user15026

9:20 PM

Yeah, knowing you get the HEA at the end does change things :)

user15026

Also, yay, LoP is on Goodreads so I can count it when I read it

@Ash It reminds me of Allingham's idea that a mystery novel is a box with four sides: "A killing, a mystery, an enquiry and a conclusion with an element of satisfaction in it."

Her novels were often about exploring the edges of that box, seeing if she could hide one from the reader or paint over it or move it, without ever actually stepping outside the box--because part of the point of reading a mystery novel is the tension/comfort pairing of knowing that you're inside the box.

(I totally got that part of Dangerous Books' explanation about why romance novels are awesome.)

user15026

@BESW Yeah, part of why I love romance novels at this point in my life is because there is that reassurance that no matter how things get, this will have a HEA

And with a lot of them, there's still the tension of "How will the author get me from here to there?"

Hamlet

@BESW I was being slightly sarcastic

9:27 PM

@Hamlet I know.

user15026

@BESW Precisely!

@Ash What excites me about A Night to Surrender is that I can't see how Dare will get Bram to be someone I care about at all, much less someone I'm satisfied to get a HEA with Susanna. If I didn't know the HEA was coming, I'd be throwing the book against the wall because I hate one of the protagonists.

Instead, hating one of the protagonists is a feature.

Q: Why does Cat Stevens' Moonshadow talk about loosing legs and eyes?

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Cat Steven's Moonshadow talks about loosing body parts: And if I ever lose my hands, lose my plough, lose my land Oh if I ever lose my hands, oh if.... I won’t have to work no more And if I ever lose my eyes, if my colours all run dry Yes if I ever lose my eyes, oh if.... I won...

song-lyrics

user15026

@BESW Yeah, I do like when you get a sort of enemies to lovers thing done well

I think she may be laying it on too thick here for my tastes. I'm gonna ride it out and see how I feel at the end, but I suspect that I prefer "enemies to lovers" where both are flawed people who have to meet each other in the middle and are both better for it, instead of just one rehabilitating the other.

(Bujold does that too, now that I think about it.)

9:38 PM

HEA?

(Higher Education Academy? Highway Electrical Association?)

@Randal'Thor Happily Ever After, the traditional conclusion of a romance novel.

Ahh.

user15026

@BESW well, one of two (the other being "Happy For Now" or HFN, but those being considered true romances is sometimes debated)

@Ash It's easy to do badly, I guess.

I still chuckle at the throwaway episode in one of the Belgariad-universe books where Polgara takes a young man and woman from warring families and simply locks them in a room for a few days until the yelling turns into giggling and they agree to get married.

@Randal'Thor haven't come across that one, and I have read them recently

But then again, I tend to look over details

9:45 PM

@Narusan It's not in the Belgariad or Malloreon themselves. There are a couple of extra volumes which cover the entire life histories of Belgarath and Polgara - did you read those too?

@Randal'Thor ah, not all of them.

@Randal'Thor Ah, yes, more graduates from the Dana Girls School Of Traumatic Reform.

?

in RPG General Chat, Nov 14 '17 at 23:22, by BESW

For the actual conclusion, they wrap the bad guy (who is guilty of multiple federal crimes) in a rug and drive around with him in the trunk until he's properly chastised and repentant, having "become a new man from the experience," then they buy him a train ticket and send him out of town to start a new crime-free life.

@BESW Glad I've never heard of those books

While we're at it, has anyone come across of Agnes by Peter Stamm?

9:55 PM

The Stratemeyer Syndicate was never pumping out high quality stuff, but the Dana Girls were actively terrible in ways the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew could only dream of.

@BESW What age range are these books aimed at, I wonder?

@Randal'Thor Stratemeyer was mostly aiming at the ten-to-fifteen demographic.

@Randal'Thor Up until where have you read WoT? Do you plan to read book 14, or are you a denial stage that it'll be over?

10:10 PM

@Narusan Oh, definitely. I'm just taking it slow is all (and in fact less inclined to do that now that the idea of rereading is becoming more appealing).

I'm on book 12 atm.

@Randal'Thor The more I think about it, the more I like Sanderson's turn. I was initially shocked by the last book, but after re-reading it it got better. The biggest issue is that it contains The Last Battle, and for someone not interested in battles it can get a bit lengthy. So I did overlook a few aspects.I'm uncertain whether I'll reread the series in the future, if so, I'll probably read 1-7 and then just 12-14.

I'd recommend you to speed up a bit now but really taking it slow with the last book. At some point I just started skipping pages and pages because of Battle. I had the same trouble with LOTR though, so it's just me and not the books as such

Oh, I don't have any issues with battles :-)

Pelennor Fields was one of my favourite parts of LotR.

okay, the conclusion of the Battle of the Hornburg was great, but pelennor fields I found lengthy...

10:48 PM

@Bookworm I'm curious when I see 1-rep users asking song-lyrics questions: is this site actually becoming a place where new people come to ask questions about song lyrics, or is it just a high-rep user sockpuppeting again?

@BESW From a ten-to-fifteen viewpoint... sounds kinda meh :P

@Mithrandir In one chapter a main character is kidnapped by a prison warden, her kidnapper's car crashes, she gets lost, falls down a well, and is rescued by a mysterious hermit taking care of a baby in the woods. One. Chapter.

...oookkkaaaayyyy.

I have a pet theory that Dana Girls novels were compiled from discarded concepts that the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew ghostwriters refused to use.

*makes note not to read*