The Reading Room

Napoleon Wilson

00:01

I...have a guess at least.

→ 3 messages moved to The Screening Room

I can. Took care of that for you.

Shokhet

@Randal'Thor Uhuh. I read Inheritance long before I saw Star Wars, but still saw parallels because everyone knows the basic story.

Rand al'Thor

→ 3 messages moved to The Screening Room

@NapoleonWilson OK, fine :-P

Napoleon Wilson

That wouldn't have been necessary, it was actually related to this room. But it doesn't hurt to move it either, I guess.

Shokhet

@NapoleonWilson Hm. What guess is that?

Rand al'Thor

It still looked weird out of context in here. And in tSR there are the little arrows to show it came from here originally.

Shokhet

00:08

I know it's an answer to my question, but I haven't yet read the answer paying enough attention to make a voting decision.

Napoleon Wilson

@Shokhet I'd rather not say. Going to bed is funner.

Rand al'Thor

@Shokhet "everyone knows" - citation-needed :-)

I knew nothing about Star Wars before SFF.SE corrupted me.

2

Shokhet

Maybe it's different on this side of the pond.

Rand al'Thor

Hadn't heard of Luke Skywalker. Didn't know AS=DV. Not sure if I'd even heard of Darth Vader.

@Shokhet Maybe it's different underneath this rock ;-)

Shokhet

@Randal'Thor Lol. Could be.

Napoleon Wilson

00:10

And then you Wikied it all, since we all know the most interesting and exciting thing about Star Wars is its story. ;-)

Shokhet

@NapoleonWilson Fine, be that way. :p

Rand al'Thor

Nope, I just picked up that stuff by osmosis.

On SFF, people even reference Star Wars all the time in comments on totally unrelated questions.

points to @DVK

Shokhet

Was that a mod-ping? DVK is not pingable in this room at this time.

Napoleon Wilson

Why wouldn't they. Moderating a science-fiction site without knowing Star Wars is like moderating a movies site without knowing, well, Star Wars.

Shokhet

I tried it earlier today, not sure why.

@NapoleonWilson Perfect analogy right there :)

Napoleon Wilson

00:13

@Shokhet You can ytill type @s, though.

Rand al'Thor

Nah. If it was a mod-ping, it'd show as the full @DVK-on-Ahch-To (and no, that wasn't a mod-ping either).

Shokhet

@NapoleonWilson ~~Yes, but there's no point.~~ Perhaps there is a point.

@Randal'Thor Okay.

Napoleon Wilson

@Shokhet I know. But there doesn't have to be. ;-)

Shokhet

Or that. :)

Rand al'Thor

@NapoleonWilson It's a science-fiction AND FANTASY site, dammit!

:-)

Napoleon Wilson

00:14

People even type those stupid @s when it does ping but they're not actually talking to that person at all.

Rand al'Thor

You mean like when they're going to take a @nap?

Napoleon Wilson

@Randal'Thor Yeah, I forgot about Harry Potter for a second. ;-P

Shokhet

@NapoleonWilson There is a reason for that; they only have to type the @ and the first letter of a name, and then tab autocompletes the name.

Napoleon Wilson

Hmm, also true. It's still a bit of an annoying habit. But to each their own.

Shokhet

I can agree that it's annoying, certainly.

Rand al'Thor

00:20

Anyway, gute Nacht.

Shokhet

@Randal'Thor לילה טוב

Napoleon Wilson

Nightsns.

Bookworm

01:46

0

Q: Is the heart in "The Hunt" associated with Desire?

One symbol that is repeatedly associated with Desire is a crystal heart. This appears in several Sandman stories, including in each Endless member's gallery. (Each Endless has a gallery, containing the sigils of the other Endless.) I don't have copies of the books on hand to show pictures, but I ...

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor "from someone who's generally very knowledgeable and writes excellent answers here." you really shouldn't be judging answers based on what the community member has written in the past, particularly given that this answer is about a different topic than what that community member has written about previously on this site.

Shokhet

@Bookworm @Gallifreyan I don't have the earlier books with me (they have been returned to the library). It would be amazing if you could provide some images of Desire's sigil from any of the Endless' galleries. Thanks! :D

There should be one at the end of The Doll's House, when Dream calls Desire and visits it to ask about its involvement in the vortex fiasco.

Shokhet

02:41

If you think this is too hard on literary criticism, read the Wikipedia article on deconstruction.

2

Hamlet

03:09

@Shokhet oh god this stupid thing.

Close reading answer is about halfway done BTW.

Gallifreyan

07:12

@Hamlet XKCD is great. Mostly.

Gallifreyan

07:25

Mithrandir

@Gallifreyan Oh yes, I still have to ask an XKCD question ;)

Gallifreyan

^ There you go. They look slightly misaligned because 1) the rectangles aren't completely straight and 2) I cropped and stitched panels because otherwise I'd have to add the whole page.

Mithrandir

07:42

XKCD question asked! ;)

Bookworm

0

Q: What were the original two results for 'died in a blogging accident'?

XKCD 369, "Dangers", mentions two results for 'died in a blogging accident': But XKCD has messed up the Internet. Now there are a lot more results for 'died in a blogging accident' - 250k of them. I tried a search using Googles fancy tools, to exclude results that contained 'xkcd' and searchi...

comics xkcd

Mithrandir

08:32

Why'd you reject this edit, @Gallifreyan? It essentially adds some information and fleshes it out, but doesn't change the intent at all.

Gallifreyan

@Mithrandir I initially thought it was putting words into OP's mouth, but now I agree that it should be approved (OP can always roll it back after all). My bad.

Rand al'Thor

10:44

@Hamlet Oh, of course. I did say I hadn't voted on the answer.

But whether DZ has posted a bad answer, or a good answer is getting downvoted, it's surprising either way.

Mithrandir

(And here come the close votes! Was waiting for 'em.)

Mithrandir

11:15

@Shokhet - is there a way to see how many clicks you got on your tweets?

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir per new twitter branding guidelines, they are now called "clickies" on your "twooties"

Mithrandir

@doppelgreener Oh cool. Is there any way to see how many people clickiesed on links in your twooties? *eyeroll*

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir Looks like yes. Below my own tweets I see a button for analytics:

Mithrandir

@doppelgreener thanks.

Mithrandir

11:42

@doppelgreener next question: what are 'impressions'? o_o

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir mouse over the word in the analytics dialog

Mithrandir

danke

(looking at some stats for the Lit Twitter account)

Rand al'Thor

Mmm, twit litter.

Mithrandir

...

Avantgarde

12:03

:|

Feeds

13:18

Do traditional #Japanese #haikus always describe a moment? https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/2685/481

Tweeted by StackLiterature on June 20, 2017 at 12:45 PM

Shokhet

13:52

@Mithrandir Doppelgreener got it

doppelgreener

14:08

\o/

DVK-on-Ahch-To

15:20

@Gallifreyan Link?

@Shokhet I'm somewhat/rather disillusioned with SE overall, so my time gets prioritized elsewhere.

@NapoleonWilson Why would you need to know the subject matter of a specific topic to moderate a site? That's like requiring an SO mod to know every language (at least all major ones). You need to be a human exception handler; not a content expert, to be a good moderator (I know plenty of people who aren't big time SMEs who'd make far better mods on SFF than myself or Richard or Thaddeus).

@NapoleonWilson Rowling claimed that harry potter was not a fantasy book. </nerd>

@Randal'Thor SPOILERS dammit!

Shokhet

15:58

@DVK-on-Ahch-To That's fair

@DVK-on-Ahch-To Not sure what that means.

...when I was younger, a friend of mine asked me to put Artemis Fowl into a genre. I said realistic fiction 😂

I mean hey, I was a smart kid. There's no reason I couldn't have done whatever Artemis was doing. (Then someone else said something about magic and fairies, and I was like "Oh, right." :P)

doppelgreener

20

A: Does J.K. Rowling deny writing fantasy?

J. K. Rowling has stated that she doesn't like fantasy, and it didn't occur to her that Harry Potter was fantasy until after she had written it, according to a 2005 interview with Time Magazine. The most popular living fantasy writer in the world doesn't even especially like fantasy novel...

I did some looking & just found this one where she didn't realise it was fantasy until after she'd written the first book.

Rand al'Thor

16:26

@DVK-on-Ahch-To This question.

@Shokhet "Does Artemis Fowl count as sci-fi or fantasy" is a question I would've liked to ask, here or on SFF, but after this meta went against me and this experiment failed, I was left with no options.

@doppelgreener Bleh. JKR is so full of it.

DVK-on-Ahch-To

16:50

@Randal'Thor I didn't comment on that question. confused

@Randal'Thor It's "speculative fiction". Problem solved

Rand al'Thor

@DVK-on-Ahch-To That's what Gall was saying. He was expecting you to comment :-)

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you were asking about.

DVK-on-Ahch-To

@Randal'Thor Ah! Got it now. sorry. got confused. thanks

Hamlet

17:06

@Shokhet why on earth is this starred?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

17:30

Mithrandir Hi! :)

Shokhet

17:44

@Hamlet ...wasn't me :P

@Randal'Thor It sounds like an interesting discussion, but I'm not sure I see the utility in it. There are both sf and fantasy elements in the story so...

One of the comments on the SFF meta page you linked to said something about "science fantasy;" that's a term that might be of use. Or "speculative fiction."

...I suppose it could make a difference if you're trying to figure out where it belongs in a library? But usually sf and fantasy go together, anyway.

Mithrandir

18:04

@HenryWHHackv2.0 hi!

Henry WH Hack v2.0

How are things?

Mithrandir

I don't know; I don't use that site ^_^

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Ok

LOL! :D

I am planing to ask Adam Lear how is it like being an SE Dev sometime.

Fun Fact: I heard of StackOverflow from a book.

OK I can't wait.

Hamlet

18:27

@Randal'Thor here you go

I'm not a big fan of this answer. It essentially says that the separation of qualities is a feature of Norse mythology because it's a tendency of other mythologies. Regardless of whether it's true that a separation of qualities is universal, this answer offers little to no explanatory power. (To be honest, I can't understand why it's upvoted). — Hamlet ♦ 3 mins ago

Essentially, this is the same problem that many answers on Mythology have. A tendency to reduce things to "archetypes". BESW and I have talked about the problems with this several times on chat.

@HenryWHHackv2.0 don't know why you have to plan: you can do this in one sentence.

@AdamLear what is it like being a Stack Exchange developer?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

no

Why?

@Hamlet Well he maybe busy.

You know devs are always busy,

Hamlet

@HenryWHHackv2.0 chat is like email. The message will stay there until Adam has free time.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

There have to think,write code,debug code,manage code and do other stuff with code.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

18:54

@AdamLear Where can I get an exact copy of SE so I can host it privately on a server in my home without opening it out to the Internet and making it public? (I like playing around with forum demos.)

Mithrandir

(that doesn't ping him)

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Well he was already pinged before.

Ok Okay

So how is the book?

That is my way of saying "How are things?" here.

Mithrandir

a bit low on stats

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Ok

Shokhet

@HenryWHHackv2.0 There's "Stack Overflow Enterprise," but it's probably far beyond your budget. meta.stackexchange.com/q/16054/266359

Henry WH Hack v2.0

19:02

@Shokhet Money always have to get in the way.

Shokhet

@HenryWHHackv2.0 Yeah, well. See also:

Alternatively, some stack exchange clones are free/open source. — dim Nov 23 '16 at 8:36

Henry WH Hack v2.0

When I become a billionaire I will donate 10,000,000 dollars to Stack Exchange.

Shokhet

@HenryWHHackv2.0 You could ask them what it'd cost....but I really don't expect it to be within range of most private individuals.

@HenryWHHackv2.0 You can invest. Andreessen Horowitz did: stackoverflow.blog/2015/01/20/…

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Also I will give my good friend Mithrandir 1,000,000 dollars.

Mithrandir

heh :P

Henry WH Hack v2.0

19:07

How much do you want?

From a scale of 1,000,000-10,000,000 dollars.

Mithrandir

*shrugs* ice cream?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

How about having your own private library?

Mithrandir

*laughs* Sure, I'd be down with that ^_^

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Ok

@Shokhet I was hoping for Adam Lear to give me a deal.

Shokhet

@HenryWHHackv2.0 It's possible (if unlikely); why not ask?

Mithrandir

19:44

@Bookworm I'm interested in what @Hamlet thought of that question.

Adam Lear

I'm not in sales :)

There's no way to get the exact copy of SE code to run in your own home. Plenty of clones out there, though.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

There goes my dream of becoming a SE moderator.

Adam Lear

@Hamlet In what sense? It's a job with some decent perks and perhaps more user interaction than average, but that depends on the team you're on here.

Shokhet

@AdamLear Oh. Do you guys not do SO Enterprise anymore?

Adam Lear

@Shokhet We do. But we don't sell it to individuals.

Shokhet

19:49

@AdamLear Hamlet was asking on behalf of @HenryWHHackv2.0, so I think you should direct your questions to him :)

Adam Lear

It's SO Enterprise, not SO Home Edition :)

Shokhet

@AdamLear Oh, I see. Got it. :)

That's a good way to put it.

Mithrandir

Oh, thanks, @Shokhet. This is now stuck in my head (along with this for some reason). I'm going to have to call @humn for a YouTube video trade off.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

@AdamLear So have you ever meet RC ♦ in person?

Mithrandir

(I take it that that's Robert C. Cartaino?)

Shokhet

19:53

@Mithrandir Revenge for "Hallelujah" complete :)

Jun 4 at 2:55, by Shokhet

@Mithrandir Thank you :) The song is still stuck in my head, but it hasn't become annoying. Yet.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

@Mithrandir Yes

Adam Lear

Yes, I've met Robert (and the rest of the community team)

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Ok nice

If you like you can drop by:

The Classroom

General discussion for cseducators.stackexchange.com.

2

Shokhet

...confused where Aladdin comes in, but okay. I take it you've seen this one, @Mithrandir? youtube.com/watch?v=dVEH_aRNqFs

Henry WH Hack v2.0

20:08

So what I have learned today:
1 Being a Stack Exchange dev have some decent perks.
2 I can't get a free exact copy of Stack Exchange.
3 SE employees sometimes meet each other.

Mithrandir

@Shokhet heh! I hadn't, actually XD

Shokhet

@Mithrandir A little bit out of season, but still okay :)

Napoleon Wilson

@DVK-on-Ahch-To I...wasn't particularly serious at all really.

Hamlet

20:23

@Mithrandir not a fan. There are two ways to define the scope. We can confine it to books. Or we can confine it to literary analysis. That question isn't about a book and it isn't about literary analysis, so I don't really see how it is on-topic.

@HenryWHHackv2.0 if you look at Adam's profile you'll see that he was previously a community manager for Stack Overflow.

> Previously:

* community manager at Stack Overflow
* elected moderator on Stack Overflow and Software Engineering
* desktop apps developer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Henry WH Hack v2.0

@Hamlet I already know. (No comment.)

Hamlet

@HenryWHHackv2.0 so it would make sense for him to have met Robert C. Cartaino.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

OK

BESW

20:54

Here's a good read: Forget Angry Superheroes — the Big Money Is in Kids’ Comics http://www.vulture.com/2017/06/raina-telgemeier-kids-comics.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t via @vulture

Tweeted by FaithErinHicks on June 20, 2017 at 3:43 PM

BESW

21:25

IDW D&D Comic Book – Frost Giant’s Fury.

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet Cheers :-) (I already suspected you were the downvoter, since you do a lot of downvoting in general, but didn't want to 'accuse' you.)

@Hamlet Um, wut? Whoever said those are the only two ways to define the scope?!

Gallifreyan

@Hamlet Mythology questions aren't about either, and yet we consider them on-topic here.

Rand al'Thor

We've already established that non-books are on-topic (look at all the questions about plays and poems, even without getting into more controversial stuff like song lyrics and XKCD), and we've also established that non-literary-analysis is on-topic. I think you're being too prescriptive.

@Mithrandir Is that a stutter or a middle initial? I've only seen him go by just Robert Cartaino.

user15026

22:13

@Randal'Thor Agreed, we have plenty of things that aren't clearly books or literary analysis in the academic sense. if we're going to restrict to one/both of those, then we should probably discuss that further as a community, because I suspect a number of people will be surprised.

Gallifreyan

@Shokhet It's too late now, so I'll go to sleep. I think our conversation alone is worth a separate question.

But for now, I bid you all good night.

user15026

Oh, hey, Tamora Pierce released the cover design for her next book. It doesn't release til some time in 2018, but I am excited anyhow.

Shokhet

@Gallifreyan Gnite :)

I was thinking that it probably didn't fit in comments, and should probably have been a chat room. (Not sure how we can make that a Q/A, but I'll try to answer if you ask :-))

Anyway, that answer easily made it into /tools as "most commented;" I thought it was interesting how the site tries to give useful information in /tools, but there are simply too few posts to look at right now. For example:

Rand al'Thor

22:34

@Shokhet Do you have access to 10k tools on other sites too? It can be much more useful on bigger sites with more content.

Shokhet

@Randal'Thor I have it on Mi Yodeya and Lifehacks.

Rand al'Thor

On Lit, it's feasible to vote on everything. On SFF, for instance, I don't even try.

Shokhet

...I usually don't use it, because delete votes stats aren't so great until you can vote to delete anything at 20K (and I don't have that anywhere, yet). I only checked because I wanted to verify that my conversation with Gall made it to "most commented."

@Randal'Thor For sure. There are usually fewer than 10 new posts a day (unscientific guess).

@Shokhet @Randal'Thor Anyway, there isn't much useful data for 10k users in /tools, not until 20k. (Okay, maybe 15k users for question protection, but I haven't gotten that yet, either.)

Rand al'Thor

@Shokhet Re delete vote stats - depends on the site. On Puzzling, I usually find deleteworthy answers in the normal course of things, and they soon get deleted by mods, but I often go hunting for old closed crap questions to delete, and you only need 10k for that.

Shokhet

@Randal'Thor Fair enough. If you want to, though, you can use a regular search for closed questions, sorted by votes and start at the bottom.

Unless closed question search is limited to 10k+ users?

Rand al'Thor

22:44

No, the only search that's limited to 10k-ers is deleted:1.

And that only returns your own deleted content, unless you're a mod.

Shokhet

Right.

@Randal'Thor Either way, I can't VTD answers with only 10k. I can only VTD questions that have been closed for two days or longer literature.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/moderator-tools

That page also does say that:

> If you poke around in /tools, you'll quickly notice that most of what's found there isn't directly actionable - it's informational! What you do with that information is up to you: hopefully, you've been around long enough now that you have some idea of how you want the site to be run, and are able to make good use of the information presented.

Anyway, gtg now. Talk to y'all later.

Rand al'Thor

I love me a nice bit of information :-)

@Shokhet Later!

Hamlet

@Gallifreyan huh? We have mythology questions

@Randal'Thor well, two people voted to close the XKDC question, so...

DukeZhou

23:00

Started up a Gaiman chat on Mythology if anyone is interested: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/60802/sandmans-corner

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet That doesn't mean everything should be about books or literary analysis.

@Hamlet I think that's his point.

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor sorry, I should have said stories, not books

@Randal'Thor I don't remember any questions about "mythology" that aren't also about a specific work of literature.

And while I don't think that scope decisions should be made based on the needs of other sites, there already is a mythology site that is struggling with traffic...

IDK, I don't have a specific, well thought out position at this point. But two people voted to close the question and three people downvoted, so maybe the question is worth discussing on meta? Maybe the problem isn't that the question is off-topic but that it's a bad question?

DukeZhou

I felt like this was definitely a mythology question: literature.stackexchange.com/questions/2749/…

Hamlet

@DukeZhou Well, it's specifically about Neil Gaiman's book on Norse Mythology (which is different from Norse mythology itself)...

DukeZhou

i notice than Andejons, one of the Norse experts on Mythology had answered a related question on lit prior, but people will likely get quicker and more consistent responses for this type of question on Mythology

Rand al'Thor

23:07

@Hamlet Incidentally, we really need to do something about that tag.

Hamlet

IDK. I probably am not making too much sense right now; it's been a long day and I have to go somewhere. Seeya.

DukeZhou

@Hamlet but the question itself is more in the field of mythographers than literary scholars

Gaiman definitely straddles the disciplines

In other words, they can post that question here, and hope andejons comes across it, but he will definitely be seeing it on mythology.

I also haven't seen solsdottir on lit, and she always brings unique and valuable insights.

Shokhet

23:24

@DukeZhou I heard you. I asked about cross-posting in the Mythology general chat, but no one's said anything yet. (Maybe I should post on their meta?)

Feeds

23:52

What does the letter V in Thomas Pynchon's book (V.) symbolize? #literature #symbolism https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/1105/481

Tweeted by StackLiterature on June 20, 2017 at 11:25 PM

The Classroom

Transcript for