The Reading Room

BESW

12:00 AM

Ahah, Ghost World was one of them.

And of course Understanding Comics.

I really do wish comics and graphic novels had more visible range between and beyond "fun romp" and "grim slog."

Shokhet

@BESW I always assumed that there was, but I just hadn't read enough to see it. (I haven't read very many comics.)

BESW

The range is there, but largely invisible.

The more we become aware of stuff like Abe: Wrong for All the Right Reasons and March and Persepolis, the less any particular comic will have to shoulder the burden of being Not The Kind of Comic You Were Expecting.

We're still trying to overcome the homogeneity of the Comics Code era.

Shokhet

12:22 AM

I see.

Shokhet

1:14 AM

@BESW Oh, that's the Scott McCloud book, right? ...my library has it in the catalog, but there are no available copies :/

BESW

@Shokhet Aye, McCloud does a good job in his Comics trilogy.

Shokhet

The other two are Making and Reinventing Comics, right?

Oh! I just checked again. The library actually does have a copy. I just sent a request, and I'll hopefully have Understanding Comics soon :)

BESW

Yup. I haven't actually read Making yet, but the other two are good and I've heard good things about Making.

Understanding Comics is a good primer on the visual/textual elements of comics, especially as a reader of comics. It gives the vocabulary and context for understanding and talking about what you see on the page.

Kinda like the language of film, where there's a lot of framing and editing stuff that we don't necessarily notice until it's been pointed out.

> The director... has learned from better films that directors sometimes tilt their cameras, but he has not learned why. (Roger Ebert, Battlefield Earth)

Shokhet

1:30 AM

I didn't know that tilting cameras was a thing, much less why. Now I'm trying to think of a film that I've seen that did that, to see if I can figure out the effect from that.

BESW

It'd probably be easier to find films that didn't include at least one "Dutch tilt."

(Star Trek)

(Iron Man)

(2001: A Space Odyssey)

Tim Burton and Terry Gilliam are especially notable filmmakers who use it often but well.

Shokhet

@BESW That one's a little extreme.

BESW

You've probably also seen it in video games; Resident Evil and Silent Hill are notorious examples.

Shokhet

And also likely has something to do with the fact that they're on a spaceship.

BESW

@Shokhet Yes, Usually a 15 degree tilt is more than enough.

Shokhet

1:41 AM

I don't play many video games.

BESW

Yes, it's emphasising the unnaturalness of the spaceship environment.

Here's an example from the 1960s Batman show:

Shokhet

> often used to portray psychological uneasiness or tension in the subject being filmed. (Wikipedia)

I see.

BESW

Right. It's unsettling. It conveys that something is not right or comfortable.

In the Star Trek example, it's "The characters have gotten bad news." In Iron Man, it's "We are learning how unstable this character is." In 2001, "Our characters are in an unnatural environment."

Shokhet

The first picture you posted might be a little different, though. I got a feeling from that example that the viewer is being made to look up at that character, making one "look up" to him psychologically because you're "looking up" at him physically.

Having never seen Star Trek, I have no clue what was going on in there.

Okay. I guess I can see that he looks a little worried.

BESW

Right, you've picked up on something there: it's a combination of angles.

The oblique angle we're talking about means the horizon isn't straight.

But it's also a low angle--the camera is looking up from below eye level.

The "normal" or "neutral" camera angle is a flat horizon at eye level with the subject.

In that shot they tilted the camera sideways AND lowered it so the camera tilts up.

Shokhet

1:49 AM

Got it.

BESW

The low angle or "up shot" is usually used to tell us the character is powerful or authoritative.

Shokhet

I'm glad I was able to figure that out :)

BESW

My reading of that particular example is, "This character has to make a difficult decision and it's upsetting him."

Shokhet

There's also a third axis, but I suppose filmmakers usually won't shoot someone straight in the eyes unless they're trying to break a fourth wall.

@BESW That makes sense. I can see that.

BESW

Yeah, the pivot angle is also important.

Two nights ago I watched a film which constantly broke the 180 rule, for no reason.

But really, the pivot is usually catalogued more as a kind of shot than a kind of angle: it's about audience viewpoint and establishing setting, rather than mood or tone.

If I shoot an actor talking face-on into the camera, that's going to establish a different relationship between the actor and the viewer than if I shoot them over the shoulder of another person, or if I pull out to the side and show both actors in profile.

Shokhet

1:54 AM

Kind of like how body language (especially positioning your body that your chest is facing the other person, or not) means something. So you're saying that there's a similar difference between an actor talking to the camera, versus talking toward someone off to the side.

@BESW Exactly.

BESW

Yeah, that's a useful analogy.

And of course, like body language, this is all cultural and learned.

There's no universal meaning to an oblique angle or a wide shot.

Shokhet

Really? I guess I never thought about body language (or, clearly, film) in this way, but why can't it be natural?

@BESW Oh, good point. (If true; I'll take your word for it)

BESW

A good easy example of cultural body language differences is eye contact.

In some cultures and contexts, eye contact is respectful: it means you're paying attention. In others, it's disrespectful: it means you're challenging the person.

Similarly, some cultures are totally cool with pointing the soles of their feet at each other while in others it's about the same as flipping someone the bird.

To bring this back to literature for a moment, when we see two comic panels side by side we usually think of one as "happening" after the other: our learned assumption is that the space between panels represents some passage of time.

This is why we call comics "sequential art."

But in Japanese manga, often a whole page of panels will be dedicated to different perspectives and details in a single important moment, like a Matrix-style moment where you freeze the frame and move the camera around to see just how awesome it is.

Shokhet

Very interesting. I've never read manga (at least, that I can remember).

BESW

Film has a similar default sequentialness to it: we assume that two shots are related if they happen one after the other. This is so ingrained into us that when the film needs to move to a new location or a different time, we'll get a few seconds of "establishing shot"--like a city skyline or the outside of a building or the sun moving through the sky--and maybe even a bit of text telling us that the scene has changed.

Shokhet

2:05 AM

But not every film does that; the name escapes me right now, but my friend was telling me about a relatively famous film that alternates scenes moving forward and backward through time to slowly reveal the story of how a particular scene happened.

BESW

Filmmakers like David Lynch like to play with this by showing us shots or scenes that are related by theme rather than by time or place. The recent TV show Westworld exploited our assumptions that adjacent shots take place one after another to weave two different stories, separated by decades, into a single narrative.

Hamlet

@Shokhet yeah, exactly. These things aren't "natural" or "universal". They're a convention.

BESW

Films and TV shows which do this well are notable because they've successfully challenged our assumptions about what's objectively true in the language of film.

Shokhet

However, it's still surprising when that happens, and the audience needs to slowly figure out what's happening.

BESW

@Shokhet You may be thinking of Arrival, which... was disappointing to me because the screenwriter didn't understand the source material.

Shokhet

2:09 AM

I think in that particular instance that my friend was telling me about, one set of scenes was in color, and the other was black and white. Or I could be misremembering things.

BESW

I'm sure that's been done, though I can't think of an example off the top of my head.

Shokhet

@BESW I don't think so. This conversation happened at least three years ago.

And the film in question was likely older even than that.

BESW

Changing the style of the visuals is common film verbiage for "different time." Black and white, or fuzzy, or slow, or high contrast.

Shokhet

Right.

BESW

Films will also use a transition cue, like a water ripple effect, to tell us that whatever's coming next is breaking from traditionally sequential narrative.

Which, again, is a sign that we've absorbed the sequential nature of shot editing so unthinkingly that we have to be given major cues when some other form of editing is being used.

(Star Wars uses wipe transitions to indicate a major change in time or place.)

Shokhet

2:14 AM

Right. The water ripple is also often accompanied by a sound effect.

@BESW Well argued.

BESW

This isn't to say that our default visual language for film or comics or anything else is bad.

Just that the more we're aware of it (as McCloud's Understanding Comics helps with), the more we can appreciate good films/comics/etc, explain why some things don't work for us, and analyse the meaning found in structure.

Shokhet

Good point.

BESW

Ebert's review I quoted earlier is saying that one reason Battlefield Earth is a bad movie is that the director isn't fluent in the language of film. He's learned some of the vocabulary but doesn't know how to make sentences with it.

Hamlet

Also important to know that alternatives exist. Experimentation is important, or else you'll fall back on the same tired patterns.

Shokhet

@BESW Mhmm.

That's an interesting way of putting it; words and sentences.

BESW

2:19 AM

By contrast, Hidden Figures is a masterpiece of craft proficiency: because the producers expected its content and themes to be uncomfortable for mainstream audiences, they used familiar, predictable, comfortable structure and vocabulary.

user15026

@BESW This reminds me I need to see that still

user15026

I loved the book

Shokhet

Hidden Figures is on my list. I'd heard very good things about it.

BESW

Hidden Figures is designed to be easily "readable," because the material being conveyed is challenging.

Shokhet

@Ash There was a book?

BESW

2:21 AM

(Actually, this is true of the book as well.)

user15026

@Shokhet goodreads.com/book/show/25953369-hidden-figures

BESW

@Shokhet The book's much better, of course; the film takes a lot of liberties. It's a good film for starting conversations about those topics, but it's not actually a good representation of the experiences of the people it's inspired by.

user15026

@BESW I never thought of it that way but now that I consider it, it makes a great deal of sense for why it is written the way it is

BESW

And not in the "Oh, they got this detail wrong" way, that's expected of any adaptation.

Shokhet

Oh. So then maybe I'll just read the book.

BESW

2:23 AM

The film's still fun and powerful and the acting is superb.

Shokhet

Or both. But probably book first.

@BESW ...sounds like it'll be both, then :)

BESW

It just... well, it simplified the complex institutional problems into the more palatable "some people are ignorant or bad" version of racism that Hollywood's more comfortable with.

Shokhet

Aha.

user15026

@BESW I suspected that might be the case.

Shokhet

So then definitely book first.

BESW

2:25 AM

Probably, yeah.

But also I will enjoy anything Janelle Monáe is in.

Shokhet

(did that post twice?)

BESW

Yup.

Shokhet

School internet just went a little haywire. (What else is new?)

BESW

It happens to me semi-regularly. Guam power is kinda dirty.

Shokhet

Yeah.

Speaking of Guam, @BESW, I was thinking about asking a question about The SEA is Ours while waiting for my copy to come. I'd like to know what you think about the question; mainly what the answer is, but also partly whether you think it would fit well on the main site.

BESW

2:31 AM

Shoot.

Shokhet

Since the topic challenge is about increasing diversity in literature, and the purpose (at least one purpose) of increasing diversity in literature is to increase understanding of other cultures, I was wondering if TSiO did a good job of portraying Pacific culture. Are there things it gets right/wrong, and what are those things?

It's steampunk, so I would understand if some things were changed, but I'd like to know if I can read the stories and gain an accurate understanding of Pasifika (spelling?). I haven't had much exposure to that culture (those cultures?) in the past.

So I'd like to know if this first impression gets it right.

(And no, I haven't seen Moana yet. That's also on a list, but I guess I should really ask the same question.)

BESW

Since I won't have my copy for at least another five days, I can't speak to anything specific.

Shokhet

Oh, okay.

BESW

But as I understand it, The SEA is Ours is an anthology of authors with ties to South-East Asia, so I'll answer with an anecdote from Guam.

Shokhet

I assumed you had read it, since you suggested it. Okay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm all ears :)

BESW

2:38 AM

In the 1980s, the indigenous people of Guam, Chamorros, started writing and performing music in the style of American country artists. "Chamorro country" became very popular. As people do, some folks started arguing about whether Chamorro country was part of the Chamorro culture.

A batik artist, respected for her understanding of Chamorro culture as it relates to American influences, was asked this in an interview.

She said, "Chamorros are doing it, right? So it's part of their culture."

This is, perhaps, an over simplified vision of culture, but I think in the context of The SEA is Ours it's useful.

If SEA authors are writing SEA steampunk, then it would be difficult for it to not in some way be an authentic representation of SEA culture.

Shokhet

I think I get it.

BESW

Moana's actually a good counterexample here: as much as Disney consulted with an unspecified group of Polynesian "experts," and cast mostly Polynesian actors, Moana is not made by Polynesians and so cannot inherit any authenticity from its creators.

Whatever authenticity Moana might have must lie in accurately and respectfully representing the existing reality of a group outside the creators' experience; The SEA is Ours, by contrast, is about a group exploring new bounds of their own reality.

Shokhet

Okay. (FTR, I wasn't going to watch Moana thinking "this is it, pay attention to the culture," as I might read TSiO)

At the same time, it's still not SEA authors writing about SEA culture as it is today. It's SEA authors writing steampunk; some cultural things might change in the creation of a story that's in a different setting/culture (whichever steampunk is; I suppose we'll get there). But I see your point; SEA authors wrote it as a SEA book, so we'll trust them that they made sure to maintain the essential pieces of SEA culture in the stories.

(And I just realized that SEA stands for "South East Asia," and now I feel like I'm the last one to notice that.)

BESW

Yeah, they aren't going to get everything right in terms of portraying historical reality, or even contemporary reality, but there's a different kind of analysis and criticism to be made.

'cause, yanno. You get Chamorros from Guam, Saipan, and Rota and ask them whether chenchule' is more valuable when paid in cash or labour, and you'll get four different answers. Cultures are not monocultures.

Not even tiny ones.

Hamlet

@Shokhet culture isn't static. It changes over time. The SEA is Ours doesn't aim to portray an unchanging culture from the past; it aims to create new culture for the future.

(Disclaimer: I couldn't stand the book.)

Shokhet

2:52 AM

@BESW Got it.

@Hamlet You make a valid point; culture is certainly not static. However, I'm not sure that I'd say that's the aim of the anthology (at least not until I've read it).

Hamlet

@Shokhet it's a steampunk anthology; by definition it is not faithful to the past.

Shokhet

@Hamlet I wasn't talking about the past. I was talking about the other statement, about creating a new culture for the future.

Hamlet

@Shokhet the whole point was that SEA voices weren't being heard in the steampunk community. So they're creating something new.

(that's what they said in the introduction).

Shokhet

@Hamlet Okay.

Hamlet

They also pointed out that steampunk as a genre tends to romanticize the colonial empires that oppressed South East Asia, and that they were, in a sense, taking back that aspect of it.

Shokhet

2:57 AM

Interesting.

@BESW Reading guampedia.com/chenchule makes me wonder whether I'll need to keep guampedia or a similar site open while reading the book, or if the authors included a glossary (or explain whatever terms they may use in the stories). @Hamlet?

BESW

Yeah, I have Opinions About Splatpunk.

Hamlet

@Shokhet I really didn't like it, but no, I was able to understand it without a glossary.

Shokhet

@Hamlet Okay, thanks.

Hamlet

If you want to experience foreign writing that requires a <s>glossary</s> some sort of explanation of the cultural references...

BESW

Heh. Glossaries. [shudders]

Hamlet

3:00 AM

Try reading the Mabinogion, a collection of welsh stories. There's a very good translation online at mabinogi.net

BESW

To Gloss Or Not To Gloss is something I work with clients on.

Hamlet

@BESW do tell

BESW

It's about target audiences and default normals.

Hamlet

And I was the resident expert for the Mabinogion on the Mythology Stack, so I can probably answer most of your questions.

Shokhet

@Hamlet It wasn't a question of wanting to, it was whether I'd need to. It's likely that I'll want to read it on Shabbat, when I won't use my computer. If I would need it, then I'd either be frustrated by reading it or (more likely) read it during the week.

BESW

3:01 AM

Glossing, and not glossing, says a lot about who you're writing for--and who you're not writing for.

It's in the same category as whether or not you italicise certain words because they're "not normal English."

(BTW, @Shokhet, Guampedia's a good resource, but don't take everything at face value. The broad strokes of that article are accurate, but a lot of the things it says about chenchule' are very regional.)

Shokhet

@BESW Good to know. Thanks.

I figured it was better than a random website because I found the link through guam.gov.

Bookworm

0

Q: Who is Thoreau quoting (or paraphrasing) here in Walden?

The passage in question is: The philosopher said "From an army of three divisions one can take away its general, and put it in disorder; from the man the most abject and vulgar one cannot take away his thought." Who is Thoreau referencing here? Is it anyone in particular, or is he makin...

walden

Shokhet

...I don't know if it means that they made it, or what, but it's there.

BESW

Like, it says "chenchule' is now often documented in writing among families, recording the date of the contribution and its type and amount." That's... not wrong... but you'll find at least as many families who laugh and say "What? How do you not know who you're chenchule'ing with? That must be embarrassing for you."

Or who say that keeping track of amounts so specifically goes against the spirit of chenchule'.

Also inafa’maolek is kinda... controversial? It's a relatively new phrase to describe very old social values, and people aren't all sure how they feel about it pushing out the older ways of talking about that stuff.

Shokhet

Interesting. I hadn't seen the article about inafa’maolek yet.

BESW

3:16 AM

It's mentioned in the chenchule' article; chenchule' is a social structure to support the social value of inafa’maolek.

Shokhet

Right. The word was definitely familiar; I meant to look that up next.

BESW

The site is really a collection of curated articles by various respected experts, so there's a lot of personal agenda underlying some of them.

Shokhet

@BESW Maybe this is a good analogy to my question that started this conversation. guampedia was (presumably) written by Chamorro to describe Chamorro culture, and some will say that they got it wrong.

BESW

Indeed, yes.

I know Chamorros who would get throwing-things mad at what it says about mamåhlao.

(Five years ago I was a designer and consultant on a social studies text for contemporary Chamorro culture. The project overseer wasn't from Guam, and had a lot of surprises about just how much variety in culture there is across our tiny islands.)

Shokhet

I take that back.

I hadn't seen his profile page before I spoke.

BESW

3:24 AM

[grin] Don't let the last names fool you.

Shokhet

Well, I'm learning.

BESW

....heh. I once met a woman who looked Korean, had a German last name, and spoke with a heavy South Carolinian accent.

Shokhet

Yep, that happens.

People will make assumptions about what a "Jewish" last name is, for example, but don't realize that there are and were Jews all over the world. I know some Jews with last names that most people would think are Hispanic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

BESW

For contrast, the batik artist who spoke about Chamorro country music is Judy Flores.

Shokhet

Mhmm.

Anyway, I have to go now. Thanks for the fascinating and enlightening discussion :)

Lots of things to think about. Maybe I will end up posting the question on the main site, but I don't know if I'll do it before reading the book. (But then again, the question probably contains the answer; it's a SEA book by SEA authors.) We'll see.

BESW

3:36 AM

ttfn

manshu

5:13 AM

@Randal'Thor Another thing that is possible (if I may counter my own theory) is that he could have killed her any time during the night. Why only at 11pm?

humn

@manshu , I'm gonna stop learning English from people who beat me up and stick with/from/onto extraterrestrials ilke you.

("... may counter my own theory"! This language laughs at those who don't try.)

(and at those who do.)

In other words, beautiful way to turn a phrase.

manshu

5:34 AM

Haha

Thanks.

Took a while to think of something good :p

humn

It was a sparkler!

... and an example of how to lead by thinking!

manshu

Soooo...howz it goin?

humn

The way you spelled that reminded me of my favorite crossword clue.

manshu

eagerly waits for the clue

humn

"No, it'____" (4 letters, 2-ish words)

manshu

5:49 AM

Wow...nothing seems to fit there.

humn

... your nose might get a little runny

... and you think it might be a little funny

.. but it'____

(when you're dancing with your hunny)

manshu

Su(n)ny?

humn

Here it's almost Lune-y

manshu

"almost lune-y" is 11 letters.

humn

Give or take.

manshu

5:53 AM

The sun has risen already here.

humn

Just another 40+ day in paradise?

manshu

Yes this paradise is still gonna have some warm days of 40+ C temperature

humn

Thought summer was here, but even the outdoor cat is too cold wrap around my calves without cracking.

manshu

Though I am on my mobile (so i don't want to check)

It's 35 here

:p

Lucky cat.

humn

Hahaha, on warmer nights that cat would've cracked.

manshu

5:57 AM

Being in cold is always better than being in hot weather.

Is she having a crack?

humn

True that adding warmth is easier than subtracting it.

That cat just had a crack at it.

manshu

You just need to think of Emma Watson for some warmth.

humn

She was in my dreams the other night.

manshu

Intelligent cat. I didn't think that she could crack that joke.

humn

I told her (Emma W) to get back into yours.

manshu

6:01 AM

Haha...that's what a good friend would do.

But probably i wasn't sleeping at that time. (Damn)

humn

Like a tag team. Every 25 days our sleep cycles synchronize. Every other 24 they don't.

manshu

searches tag team

humn

Wrestling term. Where one grappler gets replaced by another by being tapped.

Usually while on the mat in some awkward way.

manshu

Aaah...have played some wrestling games, have seen some wwe/wwf

humn

That was you?

manshu

6:06 AM

Ain't I everywhere?

humn

Only in this muniverse!

manshu

Maktub

humn

(That could use decoding . . . what couldn't . . . but . . .)

manshu

Probably there will be manshu shaped hole in the universe when i'm gone. (quoting my favorite book)

Maktub word was in the Alchemist.

humn

Still haven't checked that out!

manshu

6:09 AM

We are in the lit Se, so we need to chat accordingly :p

Maktub = it is written.

humn

When you're right you're right

manshu

And my mom won, in convincing me to do some work now...so have to go.

humn

Kinda like namaste?

Matte kudasai

manshu

Namaste is a greeting when we meet someone.

Just like hello

A sanskrit word that is.

(until next time)

humn

Terve!

(That means aloha in Finnish)

King Crimson - Matte Kudasai (Live Frejus '82)

►

Mithrandir

7:11 AM

@manshu Nooo. The warmth is much better, IMO. :)

Also, just reading the transcript of this chat is very interesting. I learn a lot just from chat :D

3

humn

7:57 AM

Another unrequested story.

I was entering a King Crimson concert, smiling like a comet.

Thought I would entertain some nosey strangers by saying that I had a stash in my sock.

One of them, predictably, said that's the first place that will be searched.

The joke was on them the whole time.

It was in the other sock!

(Should've muled it in one of their socks, come to think of it. Ah, regrets.)

(Should've edited that story to make sense. Ah, chat.)

manshu

8:38 AM

@Mithrandir yeah, but imagine yourself being under the sunrays who happily warm you enough to sweat within a minute. Not only that. Imagine the pollution and even more heat by the vehicles on the road when you step outside. The unbearable temperature. The sticky sweat. The thirst for water within every five minutes. The road which seems like it is made of lava.

But meh...probably you are right.

@humn Why one sock was more preferable than the other? The rule of equality says both socks are equal. So the stash should have been equally divided.

Locutus of Borg

@manshu Actually, this sock is better than the other one.

Because this sock has a bit of rep ;)

humn

9:36 AM

@manshu , you just foretold my next story, so hot off the presses my dancing fingers haven't settled on a single keystroke.

I found a Fifty and had to run to the store before it closed.

I laughed, sang and jiggled all the way there.

Outside the store, though, was my alter ego, shaking and barely hanging onto the ground.

I said something and went in. Bought two sandwiches, one for them and one for me.

Back outside, someone else had already sat down for company.

I gave them each a sandwich, raised a fist, and cried all the way home.

Mithrandir

...o_o?

humn

the fist was in solidarity!

(in any case, it seemed understood at the moment)

(and was returned!)

Napoleon Wilson

@BESW His description sounds much more like Memento actually, especially with the black/white alternations.

BESW

Ah. Not a film I've seen.

humn

Or Fight Club?

Napoleon Wilson

9:48 AM

I'd rather refrain from hazarding a guess if you should, though. But I like it quite a bit.

humn

Truly weird reflexive works.

Jethro Tull: To Cry You a Song/A New Day Yesterday (07/31/1976)

►

(sorry about the nonsequitor, had to get that out of my system)

Memento and Fight Club, and perhaps Being John Malkovich, are shaped like a Klein bottle.

You're never sure whether you're inside or outside.

Might not even be a difference.

humn

10:12 AM

... nother story, much staler ...

I was drifting through a rough part of town.

Someone took the trouble to yell at me

"No one with your skin color belongs here!"

I took the trouble to yell back

Mithrandir

Good for you!

humn

"That's what they told me where I drifted from. I belong nowhere!"

Mithrandir

That's blatant racism

humn

Made me think that any human with skin color is in the wrong place.

Mithrandir

Yeah, we should all relocate to Andromeda.

humn

10:19 AM

Can I hitch a ride?

(rrr. something is snagging my computer connection ... back in a bit it there's a way)

BESW

Beautiful Libraries series, Trinity College, Dublin (2012) by German photographer Candida Höfer, known for her inte… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/874180869434613760

Tweeted by womensart1 on June 12, 2017 at 8:25 AM

humn

(Back in town) An ironic side of that racist episode is that I was born in the roughest part of a town they might not even imagine.

Last time I visited, all I had to do was ask how to transfer to the train station and half the bus moved to the other end.

Think I'll stick to English. (Though it keeps trying to wipe me off.)

@BESW , wow!

Beyond gender identification!

Every library is beautiful, but rarely like this.

Mithrandir

10:44 AM

Wow.

humn

(Gotta be retouched) (and worth it!)

(might even be completely from scratch. Sure makes me shiver in any case)

There is something ~~vaguely~~ delightfully reminiscent of Georgia o'Keeffe to see there as well.

Again, though, gender specificity is more specifically, I think, a fallibility.

(Does this font make me look like i can't spell??)

Shokhet

12:54 PM

@NapoleonWilson Yes, that was probably it.

@humn That is a beautiful picture, indeed. I wonder if the shelves are load-bearing, looks like they are. (I wonder if the books themselves help support the ceiling.)

Mithrandir

And you better not scuff that floor...

Shokhet

Oh no.

:)

@Shokhet That design was probably intentional.

...that library started in 1592. tcd.ie/library/about/history.php

Mithrandir

*whistles*

humn

The place really exists!

I'm hopping a flight.

I'm wetting my thumbs.

Here come paper cuts!

This planet deserves to survive.

Mithrandir

You enjoying the HNQ effect, @Shokhet? ;)

Shokhet

1:10 PM

@Mithrandir Oh yes. I got three silver badges (two Yearling, one Good Answer) :)

And I'm two votes away from Mortarboard

Mithrandir

Heh. It's got over 4k views now...

Shokhet

Still hot. Last I checked it was around 3k

Mithrandir

My other question is still in the HNQ, too... :P

Shokhet

Nice. I'm sure you're enjoying that as well :)

Mithrandir

Yep :P

Shokhet

1:12 PM

Did you see the new comments on my answer? They raise good points as to why capsaicin won't be used without further study.

Mithrandir

Yes, I did.

Shokhet

"things that kill cancer cells in a petri dish aren't necessarily useful as cures" - To add to this, barring an explanation for why/how capsaicin can trigger apoptosis only in cancerous cells, the default hypothesis would generally be that ingesting sufficient amounts of capsaicin to kill cancer cells may be quite damaging to your normal, healthy cells as well. — aroth 7 hours ago

humn

Cheers from a medical editor!

Shokhet

@humn You're employed in the health sciences?

Mithrandir

Just got another answer, so that'll push the hotness up a bit

humn

1:18 PM

Freelance. Most of the last 5 years have been with oncology and neurology.

One or two highlights in dermatology.

Online, though, I break every written rule and come off as a dufus.

Shokhet

@Mithrandir Only if it gets voted up. It's a little thin on sources, and that usually doesn't go over very well on Skeptics.

@humn Cool!

I'm a bio major in college. I'm planning on going to medical school when I'm done here.

humn

More power to you! (Need that be said.)

Shokhet

Thank you.

humn

Those I've met who truly understand applied mathematics are biologists and sociologists.

Shokhet

@Shokhet Aaaand done: skeptics.stackexchange.com/help/badges/41/…

@humn That's interesting. I don't consider myself to really understand math. (But then, I haven't taken my statistics class yet.)

humn

1:26 PM

Live it up when it comes. Lives will be at stake. Statistics is/are exactly what i was thinking of.

I hope you have a teacher who does more than write on the board.

Shokhet

Right. I know that statistics are important when evaluating studies and treatments and stuff.

@humn I hope so too.

humn

I'm fanatical about percentages. There is no difference between 40% and 60%. There is all the difference between 1% and 99%.

Inbetween there is need for interpretation.

(That felt good to say but came out looking like a platitude)

Shokhet

@humn I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain?

humn

1:41 PM

In voting, in games of chance, in politics, in courts, too often a percentage point one way or another counts.

In medicine, in voting, in politics, in courts, things need to be decided more clearly.

Shokhet

Oh shoot, just realized I'm late. We'll speak more later.

Mithrandir

o/

Shokhet

"Time flies when you're having fun." ;-)

humn

Again, more power to you!

(what a throwback thing to say, but well meant)

Gallifreyan

3:44 PM

Read the comics adaptation of How to Talk to Girls at Parties today.

It did not say how to talk to girls at parties.

Mithrandir

I guess you won't be talking to them then.

Gallifreyan

I kinda hoped it would.

Though I can't shake the feeling the story came off the pages of The Sandman. Is that what you were talking about when you said all Gaiman's stories feel the same, @BESW?

Bookworm

4:10 PM

0

Q: Symbolism of Marx and Lenina's names in Huxley's Brave New World?

Reading Brave New World it seemed obvious to me that Bernard Marx and Lenina Crowne are in some way referring to Marx and Lenin, but I couldn't figure out any clue to support this claim. Is it truly so and what are they representing? Is there any (related) symbolism in their other names (first an...