The Reading Room

Hamlet

4:09 AM

So I tried The SEA is Ours, and I have to say, I don't think I will be able to finish it.

I couldn't stand the writing in any of the stories.

I think I'm 0/3 for topic challenges.

BESW

5:30 AM

I... might have the book in a week and a half.

Bookworm

8:33 AM

1

Q: In Watership Down can rabbits understand human speech?

This is something that was never clear to me when reading this (my absolute favorite) book. Can rabbits understand what the humans are saying? They can communicate alright with other animals (mice, seagull, cat, apparently not with a dog, though). What about humans? Fiver has a dream where he ...

Gallifreyan

9:01 AM

@Shokhet That's what I thought as well.

Bookworm

0

Q: About l. 3 of the second stanza of Sappho's φαίνεταί μοι κῆνος ἴσος θέοισιν

A long time ago, I translated all of Sappho's poems. In doing so, I had to reconstruct some parts of the texts, and do some amateur level criticism. One example of such work lies in the poem φαίνεταί μοι κῆνος ἴσος θέοισιν. THe second stanza goes: Καὶ γελαίσας ἰμέροεν. τό μ’ ἦ μάν Καρδίαν ...

poetry philology

humn

@Rand al'Thor, are you really awake at the moment? I'd like to find out more about how you mesh language with mechanics. Some other time if not.

BESW

Going by his activity chart, he might show up soon but definitely not before now.

humn

(I mesh them too, especially after getting to know a Comparative Literature major who can't add 1 and 1 but can mesh Jekyll and Gray)

Mithrandir

@BESW he's been abnormally online this morning

(last message 12 minutes ago)

Gallifreyan

9:08 AM

@Bookworm Cross-posted on SFF.

1

Q: In Watership Down can rabbits understand human speech?

This is something that was never clear to me when reading this (my absolute favorite) book. Can rabbits understand what the humans are saying? They can communicate alright with other animals (mice, seagull, cat, apparently not with a dog, though). What about humans? Fiver has a dream where he ...

watership-down

humn

! Mithrandir, you do it too!

Mithrandir

I do what?

humn

You mesh the gears of precision with the ambiguities of syntax.

From one who knows, cares and wants to learn.

Rand al'Thor

@humn I'm awake, but currently a little tied up with politics.

How do you mean, mesh language with mechanics?

humn

A sentence can be diagrammed. Intentions can be scattered through words. There's a cross section.

(I've edited books that diagrammed both senses but none brought them together)

Talk about vague! Not a good example of what I mean.

Which is why I ask.

Rand al'Thor

9:15 AM

@humn Sorry, you're being too humnian here - I don't understand what you're getting at :-)

humn

@Randal'Thor , you brought out Poe's almost-excruciating example of component-wise understanding of language

(looking it up unless you beat me to it)

It was beautiful!

Gallifreyan

So no one cared about the cross-post?

humn

(^ please link)

Rand al'Thor

@Gallifreyan Some very enterprising fellow took the initiative and posted a comment to inform the OP.

Mithrandir

@Gallifreyan waiting for a response to your comment

humn

9:21 AM

Until then:

xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/poe/composition.html

Every sentence is a mystery to be unclued.

Some are simple. Some not.

Don't let's get started on paragraphs.

(I really mean it, no sentence is understandable without already, with or without)

(Punctuation.)

Mithrandir

(this conversation has gotten kind of Puzzling)

humn

They were playing chess. This isn't even checkers.

I really have a passion for how words work together.

It is obvious that I do. It is a puzzling! It is mathematics.

It is literature. .... that was a typo

Mithrandir

:P

Rand al'Thor

@humn Some critics believe that the Philosophy of Composition is bunk.

That it was made up by Poe as an a posteriori justification - a rationalisation, even - of a poem which he hadn't really planned as carefully as that document suggests.

humn

The truth comes out!

?

Gallifreyan

9:36 AM

@Mithrandir I do believe that this edit was unnecessary. The link to the full translation might be necessary for answerers.

Rand al'Thor

@humn After some helpful comments from BESW, I incorporated some commentary on that into this answer.

It's not a certain thing, just the opinion of some critics.

Mithrandir

There's a difference between linking to your translation for answers. It's another asking for criticism and stuff on your site.

humn

(interleaved) @Rand al'Thor, that is awesome! Some of the best science, for the sake of argument, comes after the discovery.

(continuing) And some of the best discoveries are happenstance.

Gallifreyan

@Mithrandir Perhaps you could leave an explanation in comments then, rather than just cutting that part out?

Rand al'Thor

@humn As necessity is the mother of invention, so serendipity can be the mother of inspiration.

humn

9:48 AM

That is going into my file called zz.hmm (fully attributed) (edits, if any, will be incorporated)

Mithrandir

@Gallifreyan done

humn

Here's the closest to it, which I believe you were channelling: Necessity is the mother of stange bedfellows.

Rand al'Thor

@humn And you can tell that to the DUP.

humn

(looking up DUP unless you feel like spelling it out)

Oy oi yoiyoyoyi talking about yesterday's elections?!?!?!!

Owwwwwwwwwwie!

One of these days scientists will discover a cure for politics

Mithrandir

Hopefully soon

Rand al'Thor

9:56 AM

Sorry :-P

It was just so relevant.

humn

Too relevant.

I know insults, whether outgoing or incoming.

Gallifreyan

@Mithrandir Your comment sounds like "Hey, I know you're not spamming, but why don't I just plug a post about spamming and how bad it is. Again, I know you're not spamming."

Rand al'Thor

A party that I bet most people in Britain have never heard of before today, potentially getting to decide who runs the country.

Dr R Dizzle

They're hard right as well.

humn

Why can't UK be more like LSE?!?!?!?! (completely rhetorical)

Rand al'Thor

9:59 AM

@DrRDizzle Oh hello. What brings you here?

I think Dizzle can smell politics.

Dr R Dizzle

I was actively searching for a room discussing the election.

Rand al'Thor

@humn The LSE (London Stock Exchange) does have a lot of clout in the UK.

Dr R Dizzle

Looks like I'm in the squints Redding Room? For people from Redding?

Rand al'Thor

@DrRDizzle So was I, last night. I ended up in the Bridge of all places.

humn

sorry for the choice of TLAs!

Rand al'Thor

10:00 AM

@humn Totally lame acronyms?

humn

yo ufunny

(delete if understood) TLA = 3-letter acronym

Rand al'Thor

I did understand. Just playing with you :-)

Mithrandir

in The Sphinx's Lair, 3 hours ago, by Mithrandir

The political discussions are everywhere. I can't get away from them...

humn

tickled!

Dr R Dizzle

Counter-point: There are nowhere near enough political discussions.

Rand al'Thor

10:03 AM

Oh, UKIP, get over it. You don't have a reason to exist any more.

Nuttall is on TV saying the party could be bigger than it's ever been in a few years' time.

humn

(looking up: UKIP... independent party?)

Rand al'Thor

Yeeeeeeeah.

Dr R Dizzle

@Randal'Thor They're a one issue party who got their one issue dealt with. They're dead in the water.

Rand al'Thor

@humn Pretty far right, by British standards. The biggest anti-EU party in the country.

@DrRDizzle Well, that's what I said about the SNP in 2014, and then they had their landslide victory in 2015.

(But yes, of course you're right.)

humn

I have been reeling (reels of tapes) from politics forever.

Mithrandir

10:05 AM

[HQ] "The Black Star" - Epic Fast Piano Music

►

Rand al'Thor

@humn Reel in a line and feast on that fish.

You'll probably find it in the SNP.

BESW

@Mithrandir The Ink Spot has outright banned them, and RPG General Chat shunts them into the Not A Bar until they stop being Nice at which point they're nuked from orbit.

Rand al'Thor

Whether it's a salmon or a sturgeon, feast well.

Mithrandir

@BESW good for them! I'd like that here too ;)

BESW

Which, a ban or a pressure valve?

Mithrandir

10:06 AM

@Randal'Thor ...or a surgeon.

@BESW banning them. Or taking them somewhere else. I don't exactly care which...

BESW

I'd be comfortable with that.

Rand al'Thor

When I was in the Bridge last night, there was a guy who kept begging everyone to drop the politics discussion or take it elsewhere, but nobody listened.

BESW

At the very least, we should remember the Be Nice policy requires SE users to “be nice” to people who are not SE users (e.g. public figures), and if you're gonna talk Politics, you must respect those who disagree.

3

Rand al'Thor

@BESW Sure.

Mithrandir

I don't think that the keyboard they were using was super great, but I admire their skill.

BESW

10:09 AM

But I'm quite comfortable with remembering that Pokémon Go taught us not every public space is suitable for every possible use.

Rand al'Thor

This time I'm not talking about the punchability of any politicians' faces ;-)

humn

Just to wax (sorry, couldn't help it) thematic for the room, how can we analogize our earthly (greetings Martians) predicament?

Rand al'Thor

@humn ?

humn

Are we slumbered?

Are we in a wax pit?

Mithrandir

I'm half slumbering at the moment because I didn't sleep well...

Rand al'Thor

10:12 AM

@humn I'm not, but an earwig might be.

humn

I don't know whom I love more!

BESW

Right now the only predicament I see is poetic circumlocution in casual dialog.

humn

Ain't that the problem?! We want so to enounce yet we fear location.

Rand al'Thor

@BESW Isn't humn great? :-D

humn

Answer: no, but thank you, @Rand al'Thor. You're the only one here who somehow understands.

Rand al'Thor

10:16 AM

@humn I'm definitely not the only one who appreciates your style.

humn

Everyone needs an interpreter.

(that just got added to zz.hmm as well, correctly spelled)

Almost delicately asked, Rand _'_, who is yours?

(You're blushing) (it's only human!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(unless you're not?)

Rand al'Thor

@humn My what?

Mithrandir

Actually, in this case, I think it's only humn :P

humn

@Mithrandir, I would love to return the favor.

Ain't typing the next best thing to actual language?!?

Rand al'Thor

Typing is language, when one doesn't languish in typage.

Mithrandir

10:26 AM

Since I don't speak clearly, typing is better :P

humn

🎜

Rand, who is your interpreter?

I'd be honored, but am not qualified

Rand al'Thor

I don't know. What do you mean by interpreter?

Perhaps I'm my own interpreter.

humn

Them's big shoes to fill, in which case who'll be mine?

I?

One at a time it seems.

Reel on

Oy oy oy that looked different than meant!

Rand al'Thor

No leer?

humn

Good one!

Rand al'Thor

10:36 AM

One erl.

(not such a good one)

Mithrandir

@humn i.makeagif.com/media/7-01-2015/ru2NBs.gif .

humn

hahahahahahahahahaha

First person to make me hahahahahahahahahahahaaaahahahaha over the typewaves!

Mithrandir

:)

humn

(stilllllllllllllllllahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa)

(and i'm easily tickeld)

(and I know how to spell)

Rand al'Thor

(what's so funny?)

humn

10:40 AM

Language!

Not aimed at anyone specifically (which means everyone particular) If you can't laugh at English, you haven't spoken Dutch, French, German, Irish, ....... ...

Many others to be added alphabetically

Rand al'Thor

Afrikaans, Basque, Chinese, Dutch, English, French, German, Hindi, Irish, Japanese, ...

humn

You go!

mebbe it's a goulash.

Mithrandir

Klingon...

Lojban...

:P

humn

^ love

Believe it or not, I've been at stores where someone who speaks one language is trying to speak to another, and I intervene in a third language to get them to settle down.

All it takes sometimes is tone of voice.

(And the understanding of it)

Mithrandir

I've seen that happen, actually.

humn

10:50 AM

Friend.

Mithrandir

(Constructed Languages on Area 51)

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir -i

humn

Wild!@

There is hope for us.

Mithrandir

@Randal'Thor gracias

Rand al'Thor

@humn We once had an answer on SFF from the founding president of the Language Creation Society. I encouraged him to join that Area51 proposal too.

humn

10:55 AM

Optmist! I as well. (irredactible grammarian at work.)

Rand al'Thor

31

A: What's going on legally between CBS/Paramount and Axanar and how does it relate to Star Trek: Discovery (if at all)?

About the case in general: All filings in the case are collected here (by the Language Creation Society [LCS]) if you want to read for yourself. This is updated regularly by me personally (I'm on the electronic filing notice list for the case). Some minor things like proofs of service are omitt...

Biggest bounty I ever awarded.

BESW

Let's keep the language a bit less salty, please and thank you.

Rand al'Thor

@humn "Optmist! I as well" - love the double meaning :-D

Mithrandir

^^

humn

What's you gonna do, humn? Just the best I can!

(yeh, irredactable)

humn

11:12 AM

Betty Boop 1933 Cab Calloway "The Old Man Of the Mountain"

►

scoot ahead to 4:50, please

Mithrandir

@humn Poor, poor, @humn, whatcha gonna do? Things look bad for you, hey, whatcha gonna do?

humn

could be worse, you never know do ya

(You totally got it, Mithrandir)

Mithrandir

(that was a reference to a song, BTW)

humn

please speak and spell if i didn't get it

(thought i did until that follow-up)

Mithrandir

Poor, Poor, Joseph from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat

humn

11:20 AM

Poooooor

(thank you)

More politics? More Betty Boop? (There's more in store unless)

Betty Boop, Betty Boop for President (1932)

►

Nobody for president!

Who cares? Nobody.

When you're hungry who'll feed you? Nobody.

Who has alllll the answers? Nobody.

Fun with words

No fun with politics

manshu

hey @humn

humn

@manshu , you are a prototype for all seasons!

What brings?

manshu

Just a regular check in

May 31 at 10:54, by Rand al'Thor

Now all we need is humn to come back for some awesomely quirky conversations.

So, how'z it going?

humn

11:36 AM

oooooooooh, I'm looking for another video/music to share somewhere for some reason

manshu

Didn't see you for quite few days.

humn

Haven't been well.

manshu

Take care buddy

humn

Your earth speak is excellent

manshu

Am I speaking in earthly language or you are understanding the Martian one?

I guess we'll never know

humn

11:40 AM

Remember, once I establish the Untied Seats of Earth, only those in my domain will be considered "Earthlings"

Until then, I pronounce all of "them" as "those."

manshu

Count me in for it is necessary for me to have the Earthy visa to conquer the Earth

humn

Yes, hohohoho,we both know that Earth is small potato(e)s

I want the big cheese!

If not the moon, then the stars

Yes - Perpetual Change

►

manshu

I might have heard this song.

(Once I heard a lot of songs by Yes)

humn

(Lucky.)

manshu

(Thanks to you)

Few I downloaded are: Love will find a way, Open your eyes, Owner of the lonely heart.

humn

11:49 AM

(continued elsewhere?)

Shokhet

1:14 PM

@Mithrandir בטח

@Gallifreyan Thanks. Those boxes made literally 0 sense the first time I looked, but now I think I got them.

Shokhet

5:09 PM

Wow. Honestly, I expected literature.stackexchange.com/q/2690/481 to remain unanswered for a very long time. Accepted answer 8 hours later.

Hamlet

@Shokhet it was answered by someone from the latin site.

And I'm not sure why that answer was accepted; it's good but incomplete.

Shokhet

@Hamlet Ah. That makes more sense.

I was pretty sure we didn't have that kind of professional on the site, yet. Unless they just haven't been discussing ancient Greek poetry until today ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hamlet

While I'm glad the question was posted here (it's good and on-topic), if I were the OP I would have posted it on the latin site, because it would be more likely to be answered.

Shokhet

Oh! 16.1k on Latin. I didn't think to check that before.

@Hamlet It certainly looks very scholarly. I can't read Greek, and am not entirely certain I understand what's going on over there.

Gallifreyan

7:37 PM

I have an awesome proposal for a reading challenge. You symbolism and close reading folks are going to love it.

It will be glorious.

Gallifreyan

8:13 PM

0

A: Suggest your Lit.SE reading challenges here!

Batman: Noёl This graphic novel is different from (most?) other Batman comics - for one thing, because Batman is not the hero here. Based on A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, this story (written and drawn by Lee Bermejo1, who also did the artwork for Joker) offers an interesting perspectiv...

user61230

8:24 PM

I made a questionable decision.

Librarian

0

Q: Would questions about the Bible be on-topic

In reference to this comment on Area 51, would questions about the Bible be on topic on this site?

discussion scope

Gilles

8:49 PM

@Emrakul Indeed, and I don't understand why you made it. It's obviously inappropriate.

user15026

@Librarian I'm confused why this is too broad

Bookworm

0

Q: Will someone please explain me these lines?

I'm researching on Urdu shayars it's a part of my assignment to collect 500 urdu shers with their meaning.The original link for the above lines is https://rekhta.org/tags/khamoshi-shayari .

poetry translation

manshu

Are homework assignments off topic?

Gilles

@manshu no

they can be bad for other reasons, of course

“write my book report” would be too broad, for example

13

Q: Policy on questions based on homework or tests

Recently, a member of our community asked the question In what way is the poem 'Tissue' by Imtiaz Dharker related to power / conflict?. This question was based on a question from what I think is a practice test for a national exam. What's our policy on these sorts of questions?

discussion

manshu

above question is an assignment

Gilles

9:04 PM

@manshu that's not relevant to whether it's a good or bad question

manshu

Yeah, this community seems to have same reasons as Physics SE and Chem SE.

Should I answer that? I know the language.

Gilles

@manshu Do you understand what he's asking? Not a translation into English, apparently, since he links to one, and that would be off-topic anyway. So what is it? “The meaning” is too broad, that's not a question.

manshu

I don't understand how "the meaning" is too broad.

Gallifreyan

@Librarian dupe

18

Q: Should we allow questions about religious texts?

Science-Fiction & Fantasy has a policy of excluding all religious texts. This makes sense because SFF is about fiction, and stating that a particular religious text is fictional is pretty offensive to those who believe it. However, I feel like we are in a slightly different situation because our ...

discussion scope

Catija

@Gallifreyan Considering the OP's avatar, I'm surprised they don't go to Christianity.

Catija

10:43 PM

Pride & Prejudice - Thug Notes Summary and Analysis

►

^ Language may not be appropriate for some workplaces.

Hamlet

11:36 PM

> If you're unconvinced that such an answer exists, I would encourage you to take a closer look at Tariq Ali's excellent answer, which cites a paper dedicated to rebutting interpretations of Turing's paper that focus on gender. I'm interested in an answer that explains the arguments that Tariq Ali's answer rebuts.

Understanding political subtexts in the Turing test paper

@Catija they already have an account on that site. Presumably because they have a literary question, not a question about the Christian faith?

Catija

@Hamlet I don't have an account there but I suppose that I figured that biblical interpretation would also be on topic on the site.

Hamlet

@Catija yeah, but we probably can write better answers for questions about literary analysis.

Catija

That's not really a discussion I think worth having.

Hamlet

@Catija ?

Catija

I think it serves little purpose and causes a good amount of harm for sites to have "we can answer it better" competitions. I've seen it fostered between SFF and M&TV and I don't really find it useful.

Hamlet

11:45 PM

@Catija better answers ... for questions about literary analysis (I forgot that last part; sorry if my meaning was unclear).

Not trying to start a competition, I just meant that because this site focuses on literary analysis, it probably does a better job answering these questions than other sites.

It's like if you have a question about programming, you'll probably get a better answer on Stack Overflow.

Catija

I... still really don't think that's worth discussing. Just because they're a site full of Christians doesn't mean they're incapable of literary interpretation... they may also have a closer knowledge of the subject, and be better able to discuss it in a way that references other sources... If a site doesn't have anyone with expertise in a specific topic, they're going to be unable to adequately answer the question regardless...

Hamlet

@Catija I'm still not sure what the problem is.

Catija

... There's no "problem"... I don't see any benefit to a "who can answer it better" discussion.

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