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17:03
Hmm...
Chat event but no convo
sigh
Yeah
We're going to wait a bit to see if more people filter in
If not, then we're either going to march forward, or fall flat on our faces, depending on how many people we have here.
Was anyone aware of this besides us and Kalamane (who won't be here for an hour)?
@MatthewRead Eh? I pegged him for now. I messed up the time table, didn't I?
At any rate, I revised the Meta post to point out the schedule, but unfortunately not a whole lot of biting on that lure.
Yeah, assuming daylight time 12:15 MDT = 2:15 EDT
The only solution is to elect someone who isn't here as Book Club President, and then blame them for everything.
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17:18
Hopefully someone shows :P
Hm.
Well, anyone other than us 3 here for said meeting?
I see other peops idling in the room.
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18:05
Sorry, middle of the work day for me, and Wednesdays are "meeting days" around here. :)
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I haven't used SE chat much - do the greyed out gravatars indicate "present but idle"?
Yup! They get progressively more gray as they age...
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What would you say to using a Meta question for selecting which books the group will cover?
How much rep do you have to have to see Meta questions?
Anyone can see Meta questions
A Meta question is generally a good way to run things, that's how we select things on Gaming for example. We select a handful of options and present it with a Meta question.
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18:11
OK - I thought I read somewhere that there was a limit, but until Literature I haven't really paid much attention to how SE works overall - I've just asked and answered questions without much concern for the 'how' :)
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18:27
crickets
So... Read any good books lately?
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I'm wondering how many people even saw the meta notice
Most of my own reading these days is pretty dry technical stuff
I'm pretty sure I single-handedly paid for Tim O'Reilly's cabin
Although I did come across something interesting last night - Of Dice and Men, a script "about a group of 30-something D&D players, and what happens when one of them enlists to go to Iraq"
I've only read about the first 20 pages, but it seems interesting.
The characters definitely have characteristics recognizable in my social group :)
No Kal
Hrm.
30 players for one group? Crazy DM.
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LOL
The short story collection mentioned in literature.stackexchange.com/q/182/32 was entertaining as well.
One of the few upsides to the modern world - I could read the question, buy the ebook, read the story, and post an answer inside of 4 hours. :)
18:37
Quite an upside
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Anyone else read anything good lately? :)
I grabbed Connie Willis' "Blackout/All Clear" last night, but haven't started them yet. Ah, for that period of my life when I could read every single Hugo nominee every year. :)
18:54
I haven't read very many books at all in the last couple years. Dang university :P but I need to get back into it now, hoping this club will help
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Should we focus on a particular genre? Have a series of different genres and vote on a title for each? Or just ignore genre completely and leave it open to whatever?
I've always kind of liked the second approach, as it gets me out of my SF/Fantasy "rut".
I think it may be better not to focus on a genre.
I'm late but I'm catching up.
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Kalamane!
Yes?
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19:08
Yeah, I've no idea why I shouted your name, sorry :)
I think we should start with a currently popular title to draw interest. For example: the Hunger Games or some such. The upside for me is that I haven't read them. ;)
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Wouldn't posting a question be more inclined to indicate interest? You might find a lot of people have already read many of the "currently popular titles."
Ah, yes.
Superuser has the Question of the Week format that we could copy.
They post a question on meta and the answer with the most upvotes is chosen.
That way we wouldn't have multiple book club questions out at once (Unless we want that)
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That could be a way to go - I'm not familiar with it, but the model seems simple enough. Another way to go would be to just post the question "Which book(s) should the book club read?", and take all the submissions that get enough votes (something like 6? 25% of the 18 +1's on the book club question?), then organize them into an order based on popularity.
We also need to decide how often we would meet, and when - for my part, the middle of the US business day like this isn't my favorite :)
I'll do whatever I can to participate regardless, and I understand there are people in all different timezones
19:26
Me too, looking at the chat logs, one could conclude that I've scared everyone off.
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:)
An interesting yet unrelated note, seeing your SE profile, I think we live in the same city.
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I noticed that you were in Utah
Yeah.
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So, unless anyone disagrees, I think the next action would be to post the following questions to meta:
1) What books should we read?
2) How often should we meet?
3) When should we meet?
4) Who is "Book Club President"?

Anything missing?
19:31
Perhaps "Vote for Book Club President"?
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The actual phrasing of the questions is definitely malleable :)
Well, that was ideally the intent of the chat meeting but since we only have 3-4 actual Book Peops here, that kinda makes it difficult to properly work on, heh. So aye, I think that covers the Meta post you'll need.
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One post? I was thinking of splitting it as 4 different posts.
IMO, Grace Note has already nominated (her?)self for President by arranging this meeting. :)
You should have someone who is more vested in the community partake. Outside of Jury Duty wait, I haven't read a book of any sort or cadre for 6 years now.
I think, before we nominate a president, the least we could do for them would be to clearly define their responsibilities. Unless we already have and I've missed it.
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19:36
heh - fair enough, Grace Note :)
Why would we need a president?
The main responsibility is organizing the first 3 points - help run the process to determne the books to read, determine the frequency of the events, and consequently run said events.
@TimN It's not so much an elected position as you just need someone in a sort of leadership role to take charge of the initiative.
Far too many community efforts peter out into nothingness because no one is taking the helm and everyone is waiting on everyone else. Having a guiding leader helps spur things into action.
As I believe TML stands for "Too Much Literature", I vote TML for president.
Ok, seems reasonable.
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And when I tell you it stands for "The Missing Link" (as in, between ape and man)?
19:40
You're the expert. I withdraw my nomination.
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:) I had a very odd physique in high school - when they tried to mock me, I took their label and started using it as a nickname.
Does that mean you won or they won?
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I choose to believe that I won :)
I asked Ivo Flipse about how they run Question of the Week over on Super User and here he is! Thanks, Ivo.
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Q: Top Questions of the Week #1

KronoSWe are planning on featuring every week the "Top Question" of Super User in the Super User blog. Please post any question that you feel is of worth and the reason why. Try not to promote your own questions or answers for publicity sake. We are looking for questions that are of similar par to t...

12
Q: Periodic recommendation chats

PearsonartphotoSo, one of the common ways to deal with a type of question that comes up that isn't appropriate for the site, but is on topic, is to do a chat. I'm curious, is there any interest to do a periodic chat for recommendations? I think it would be quite interesting, maybe to do once a month or so. Thou...

I'm not sure if what you guys are planning is like QotW unless you plan to blog about it, scifi.SE holds chat events to discuss scifi&fantasy material.
19:51
hey guys
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I think a blog would be a good tool, I wasn't even aware you could have one :)
@TML well you guys are really fresh, but I got one for Fitness too, so if you have a clear format, it should be possible to arrange
however, I would write the blog post as a digest of whatever you do here in chat. So you first talk about a book or hold something like a recommendation chat for a certain genre, then you summarize things in a blog post

recommendation chat #1 (2011-03-23)

Mar 23 at 23:03, 1 hour 37 minutes total – 130 messages, 7 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Mar 25 at 19:36 by Gilles

@Gilles can tell you more about those
12
Q: Periodic recommendation chats

PearsonartphotoSo, one of the common ways to deal with a type of question that comes up that isn't appropriate for the site, but is on topic, is to do a chat. I'm curious, is there any interest to do a periodic chat for recommendations? I think it would be quite interesting, maybe to do once a month or so. Thou...

That might be a good idea, have the meta question decide on the book and schedule a chat for the "book club meeting" part of the club, then post a summary with highlights and quotes on our blog about the club meeting. We could even have a different meeting for each chapter each week.
We have a semi-weekly chat event where people ask around for recommendations
Asking for recommendations is always open in chat, but there aren't very many people. So we try to have a common time for people to attend.
Does it work? So-so. I think we've had up to about 8 people, and once or twice nobody turned up.
@IvoFlipse The first few are bookmarked, I think some bookmarks are missing
I'm not convinced that the rec chats are the best way to handle recs
BTW we set that up after we'd decided that recs were off-topic
20:00
I sometimes think you should simply hold them when everybody feels like having one
But this requires users to regularly visit the chatroom and simply hang out
@IvoFlipse Oh, we do. But then it's only a few regulars. We've had visitors turn up just for the rec chat; most of them were SE employees or moderators from other sites.
We're still figuring out if recommendations are on topic.
@Gilles We shouldn't forget that most beta-SE sites are pretty tiny
Also, we've just started to try something different: a “topic of the day” chatroom
@Kalamane Simply have experienced readers play Jeopardy on 'popular' books. They already know the answer, but they simply ask them to point out how awesome the book is. Masked behind content you actually want to see on the site
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20:04
@Gilles This is a room dedicated to lists/recommendations. Someone proposes a theme, and anyone can suggest works on that theme. After a day or two, we move on to the next theme.
@Gilles Looks interesting, though a bummer if you're a day too late :P
Though it can help spark an interest in the general room too
We only started last week, so it's too early to tell if it'll work
@IvoFlipse The intent is to keep people coming regularly or semi-regularly
And also that no matter what time you turn up, you will find something potentially interesting going on. You don't have to be there at the same time as other people.
That's a lot of info in a short amount of time. Thanks guys.
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20:37
@IvoFlipse Yeah, I started to do that, but I have trouble with the idea of a "good subjective" question - I guess, to put it another way, the "content [I] actually want to see on the site" doesn't appear to agree with what SE wants on the site; which is fair, it's THEIR SITE. But it's hard to work up a lot of enthusiasm around what someone else wants you to post. :)
@TML Well what's the core audience for this site? People who work with literature/written text for a living I reckon?
@IvoFlipse It seems to be more reader-oriented, actually. Hardcore, though, not "Twilight is the only book I've read" :P
@MatthewRead Well then explain to me: what kind of questions do you want here?
Are they to explain the plot?
Trivia?
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Q: Is Sci-Fi and Fantasy going to be merged with this site? If not, how do we interact with them?

Matthew ReadThe SE people are closing questions that are "duplicates", despite them being on the other site. Note that the question was not cross-posted, it's two different users with slightly different (but effectively identical) questions. If this site isn't meant to stand alone, is there any good reason...

@MatthewRead I forsaw this becoming a problem
its like how Apple only exists because SU banned iphones and ipods
if you make a Venn diagram, not all sites overlap as cleanly as a moderator would like them to, which makes for a messy situation
20:53
@IvoFlipse I'm struggling with that. "Expert" readers tend towards discussion, rather than questions. Some of these discussions can be crammed into questions, but not all. And then we have the simple recommendations and such ... it's hard to find a subset here that consists of really good questions.
@MatthewRead What would the discussion be about?
@MatthewRead That's my problem with Movies too
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Q: What problem does Movies solve and who will be the experts?

Ivo FlipseProposal: Movies I'm not saying this proposal should be shut down, I'm just wondering what the purpose of this proposal is. Perhaps I'm just missing something. When looking at the exemplary questions: How does the MPAA rate movies? --> regulations/laws How does 3D work? --> technical questio...

@IvoFlipse We've gotten a couple questions so far that were along the lines of "You can interpret X to be Y, or to be Z. What's right?" Fortunately I think they were better than that -- references to analyses and that sort of thing -- but I can just see the answers tending towards "well I felt like it was X when I read it"
@MatthewRead Well I can live with that (to an extent) but then the answer should be a detailed analysis and not just: because I say so
I'd imagine the best questions would be an advanced type of those you had to answer in school, where the answer is implied by the text, but you won't find a direct answer anywhere
And when you start thinking about why you liked a certain book so much, there's always a plot twist, the way the writer described things or something like that, which probably could be phrased as a Jeopardy question. That way you're effectively 'recommending' others to read the book, if they also like those kind of things
@IvoFlipse That's my thinking as well.
@MatthewRead I can't think up a great example, but I'll recognize it when I see one :P
21:01
Haha, exactly!
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A: Books similar to Gödel, Escher, Bach

TMLYou might also enjoy his "I Am a Strange Loop", reviewed by Scientific American here. I don't think it's particularly "similar in style", but it's trying to address the same underlying theme: what is sentience?

@TML when answering a question like this it would be helpful to summarize the book or something. Now I first have to read a review or Google it to figure out if its any good.
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21:37
@IvoFlipse Yeah, I tried to do that with the last half of my answer, but I could have done better. Thanks for the feedback.
@TML A general guideline: if the answer is only 2 lines of text, you probably want to be adding more information even if the OP doesn't ask for it ;-)
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