By tolerating the behavior, you're validating the behavior. Her age doesn't matter - it only make the problem your responsibility.
Let's call things as they are: your daughter bullied another girl to the point that she doesn't want to come to school anymore.
Work with the teachers on a solution....
To me there's nothing in the question that suggests OP's daughter feels she has anything to apologize for. Are you talking about a coerced apology? If so, what are the merits of such an apology, as you see it? (I'm of the impression that they are unsatisfying to both the person apologizing and the recipient, and have only the side effect of devaluating apologies in the face of both)
Thanks for elaborating. I personally don't think it shows OP's daughter that it is anything. It is one of many ways in which parents act on their own decision that it is, but if the daughter wasn't convinced, I don't see how a forced apology, by painting or otherwise, would push her in that direction. (I don't intend to start a lengthy discussion on that, though, I'm happy to accept that we may disagree, I just wanted to know whether that was what you were getting at).
Yes, A has the right to feel safe at school, but not beyond normal standard. And that's what I'm asking. Same as in calculating 3+5=9 is problematic, but you can't expect anything more than 'That's wrong. Be careful next time'.
Bring the problem on an adolescent or adult level. How would you see it if the action of someone prevented A to go to high school or to work ? Of course, we are talking about 5 year-olds. Nothing is set in stone. The problem itself is not huge. But something should be done.
@Makor: that still comes down to how you view the individual actions. If the actions that prevent A from showing up to work is actual harassment or if its refusing to turn off a cell phone when A claims to be electrohypersensitive or whatever you'll agree is uncalled for, you may make different calls on how far we must go to accommodate that. So question is in which part of the spectrum refusal to share pens fall. If that's an issue, I'm surprised if A can attend kindergarten class with any other kid present.
@jf328 I was going to write an extra answer but this one covers 80% of what I think. I am however surprised to see your question "Is my daughters behaviour acceptable" when you've stated that you won't accept it when it happens around you. I'd suggest you make extra effort to be consistent around these habits because you can encourage them by mistake if you're not.
@ReinstateMonicaSackTheStaff The answer means that the child has to know that she can trust the authorities to have her back when she is victimized. At this age she has a long time to learn that life and the world are not always fair. And involving the authorities in the case of true harassment is a good thing
@ReinstateMonicaSackTheStaff -1 on your comment, because 5yo children should be taught to involve adults when they don't know how to resolve a conflict with another 5yo.
@GregSchmit-ReinstateMonica As a last resort, perhaps. My oldest is almost five, and I've deliberately (and largely successfully, considering his age) taught him dignity culture.
@ReinstateMonicaSackTheStaff It's irrelevant that your oldest child knows "dignity culture"; that's just virtue signaling, not addressing the point. The question is about a child who doesn't want to go to school because of being berated by another child. If it gets to that point, clearly their conflict resolution skills haven't worked out, so going to parents is fine, and good parents can even teach applied conflict resolution skills, but the idea that going to parents is a bad thing is silly nonsense.
@GregSchmit-ReinstateMonica The OP didn't describe anything about her daughter's behavior that even rises to the level of mildly concerning. It would be a massive disservice to the other child to treat this as anything other than her own problem that she needs to deal with internally. When my son didn't want to go to school because the other kids were loud and wild and it made him anxious, I taught him how he could deal with those feelings. And he did. It would have been ridiculous to expect the other kids to change their behavior to accommodate him, even a little bit.
@ReinstateMonicaSackTheStaff What if you went to a meeting and someone put all of their stuff on one of the chairs at the table and refused to move it? I mean, sure, people are going to pull up other chairs...while quietly considering the best way to fire the person who is acting like a five-year-old. They wouldn't just say "oh, I need to ignore the feeling that this person is being selfish". Parent's job is to get the kid from acting like a five-year-old to acting like an adult in the next decade or so, not just assume that it will happen by magic.
@user3067860 The people acting like children in that scenario would be anyone who gives it a second thought. Scheming to fire someone over such a thing, even the thought crossing their minds, would be ludicrously immature and vindictive. A company (or a society) populated with such people is doomed.
@ReinstateMonicaSackTheStaff "...own problem that she needs to deal with internally... It would have been ridiculous to expect the other kids to change their behavior" -- that's wrong; you're teaching your children to be pushovers. Sometimes kids need to change their behavior, and other kids usually will exert social pressure on a child if they are being a bully to get them to get the bully to "change their behavior". If that doesn't work, going to parents is normal and good.
@GregSchmit-ReinstateMonica That depends entirely on whether the "bullying" is perfectly normal and reasonable behavior. In my case, and the OP's case, it is. Simply ignoring such things does not make a person a "pushover", and learning to distinguish between minor annoyances and serious affronts is a major part of emotional maturity.
@ReinstateMonicaSackTheStaff Nothing about verbally berating and blocking someone from sitting down is "perfectly normal and reasonable behavior". But if you want to teach your kid to be a pushover and just accept that they cannot sit down and deal with it internally, that's your prerogative, but I would want my kid to be more assertive; if they don't get a reasonable response, talk to adults. Firstly: the adult can either confirm or disconfirm whether the child should be angry about a kid verbally berating them, and secondly: the adult can supervise the conflict resolution process.
@ReinstateMonicaSackTheStaff "bosses A verbally" => "verbally berating", "puts a doll on the chair next to her, claims that's her doll's seat, and orders A to pull up a new chair" => "blocks someone from sitting down". I was actually charitable, because I left out the part about her not only blocking her from sitting down, but also orders her to pull up another seat.
"Bossy" is coded language used to excuse bad behavior, often it is gendered. Kudos to the poster for unpacking this for the OP. This behavior is clearly unacceptable, gift wrapping it in "girls will be girls" doesn't help anyone.
Yes and it is classic that a bully's parents find it inconceivable that their child is a bully. The fact that the parent considers it normal that this child and her friends are constantly winding each other up in this way suggests the families involved are toxic or that the local culture is.
@Frank You are getting a bit too far in your analysis, and this toxic accusation without any proof just worsen the point. On the other hand, I agree that parents find it hard to admit that some behavior are problematic when it comes from their own children. It's often more "protecting your kids" than encouraging anything, but still...
@MakorDal You might be right. But still, I would ask OP to clarify this key point of "they do that to each other all the time". Where I live this kind of persistent behavior would be unimaginable, and at this point a school appointed psychologist would be sitting in with the class to understand the problem. I am not exaggerating. Re-reading the OP , the author seems to be suggesting that the child and her friends are repeatedly and frequently provoking teacher intervention in group conflict, and yet the author seems to use this as a defense of normal behavior. Bizarre.
"'Bossy' is coded language used to excuse bad behavior, often it is gendered." Oh gees can we please stop trying to bring gender into everything? Please?
I'm at a total loss. Everyone is talking about harassment and bullying. Telling someone the seat is taken (by a doll) doesn't sound like harassment to me, same for the pencils. The child should certainly learn sharing but other then that I don't see a huge problem. If anyone could take the time to explain this to me? I don't have children myself which may be why I don't understand.
@MakorDal I think I understand what you mean but I am not entirely sure if I agree, if I feel bullied by you it does not make you a bully by default. Lets say (just as an example) child A does nothing notable and child B says 'I don't want to go to school because of 'A'', does that make A a bully? I know in this case there is certainly wrong behavior in play but hypothetically.
I try to answer the question within the given context. Feeling bullied is certainly not the same as Being bullied. Here it seems there is a systematic behavior. It needs to be addressed anyway. At least, no one got a pencil stuck somewhere. (already seen, it's awful)
@EpicKip when someone is referred to as "a bully", it usually suggests a pattern of behavior that implies intent. That's very different from saying someone engaged in bullying behavior. In this case, I think it is pretty clear from "A's" reaction that the OP's daughter is engaged in bullying behavior, but that doesn't make OP's daughter "a bully"; it just means that there are (probably unintended) consequences to her interactions with others that need to be fixed. Does that make sense?
@EpicKip I think you are overlooking the more concerning point that the teacher is constantly having to intervene in this child's conflict with a few other children, that the parent considers those few to be 'friends', and that anyone else unwilling to participate in this toxic game is considered an anomaly
Discussion on answer by MakorDal: 5yr…
Discussion on answer by MakorDal: 5yr…