Taking a Physics course

Crazy Buddy

Dec 12, 2013 18:22

@dmckee: Quick question... I still have two more years to complete my undergrad engineering course. I thought I could take a bunch of online Physics courses meanwhile. Are they really worthy?

Like say, edX?

They suggest that they'd offer certificates upon completion of a course... (too) :D

Crazy Buddy

Dec 12, 2013 19:00

^^^ Suggestions anyone?

Brandon Enright

Dec 12, 2013 19:24

@CrazyBuddy I can't speak to online physics courses specifically but I took the Coursera Cryptography 1 course from Dan Boneh and it was fantastic.

Of course, it was every bit as much work as a regular college course so it isn't exactly casual study.

Crazy Buddy

@BrandonEnright Oh, well I asked whether it's worthy or not, because - As a student, I need something to back myself up, that I've completed this course here with this percentage, something like that...

edX caught my eye last week. And their FAQ looked like I can depend on them for my course...

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy What's your goal for taking courses? Your own edification? Resume building? Something else?

Crazy Buddy

@BrandonEnright Like I said, I'm an engineering undergrad. But now, I'm quite sure that my field of interest (& study) has shifted to physics. In the future, I'll be doing my higher level studies in astrophysics. So, I'd be needing basic courses like Mechanics, EM, etc. Right?

And if I had to convince my future institution that I've completed those prerequisite courses, I need a proof. No? That might be the point of this course (well, at least that's what I guessed) Still, I'm not sure of my opinions. That's why -- suggestions?? :P

Mostafa

Hi @CrazyBuddy.
I'm dealing with the same issues right now!!

Crazy Buddy

Oh...

Mostafa

Dec 12, 2013 19:41

The must have course is quantum mechanics. After that EM. And as an Aeronautics student you've had Classical Mechanics I suppose.

Crazy Buddy

@Mostafa Well, I'm not sure. My syllabi are somewhat terrible. But, I'm sure we had topics of classical mech. (though none of my classmates knew that there's a subject named "classical mech.") :D

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy Sound it sounds like you want formally recognized prerequisites so that if you move into a masters or PhD program you can hit the ground running? If so, that would be highly dependent on the policies of your future institution as well as the courses you take and where you take them.

That is, I don't think there is a generic one-size-fits-all answer. You will need to really do your research to figure out what options you have.

Crazy Buddy

@BrandonEnright I don't know much about the institutions and all, which is why I pondered whether the institutions may get convinced by an online course completion :D

BTW, the universities that showed up in front of the edX page is what really made me happy :)

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy Remember though that just because a school is a member or just because they offer classes online does not mean they will issue credits for those classes or recognize them.

Crazy Buddy

Dec 12, 2013 19:57

yeah, yeah...

I thought that I could do something useful, while having my engineering course (I'm doing it already, I read a few books, but that course thingy was a kind of reinforcing) :D

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy If you have free time and you love physics and you want to take the classes, you should. More knowledge and skills is always better. If your goal is specifically about getting into a research program though, there are a lot of caveats and the classes may not help you there.

Crazy Buddy

@BrandonEnright Okay, thanks for the cheer-up... I should do more research on that, before my vacation ends. I will roger that ;-)

Nice chat... And now, it's time to bed. C'ya later @Brandon :)

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy G'night!

Mostafa

@CrazyBuddy BTW, last year I took a quantum physics course on coursera with the same intentions. But the assignments and exams were too easy and solutions to most of them could be found online on say Wikipedia. So I don't think it's much valuable for institutions and universities. (I'm not sure)

Brandon Enright

Dec 12, 2013 20:24

Huh I just learned that there is a difference between therefore and therefor thanks to an edit of a question. English sucks.

user54412

Dec 12, 2013 21:46

@CrazyBuddy certainly the higher up you go in academic pursuits (or other pursuits probably) the less people care about how you learned something - all that matters is that you know it

user54412

so in that sense filling in gaps in your education is worthwhile in general

user54412

what I can't speak to is whether or not online courses are good at that - I've never taken one, so I can't compare

user54412

my only recommendation is to try to distinguish between online things that will give some sort of challenge, vs. those that are there just to make money somehow (which they do by giving people work that is too easy, because people like doing easy things)

user54412

don't take the feel-good courses; rising up to challenges is the best way to learn

dmckee

Dec 12, 2013 22:27

@BrandonEnright I can also vouch for that crypto course. Very good. And at least as much work as a traditional course.

@CrazyBuddy Many Ph.D. programs will accept the GRE physics exam in lieu of a undergraduate degree covering the usual stuff, so on-line study could give you the preparation even if you don't get a physics-specific degree.

That said, the subject exam is very difficult. I'd say it was harder than my doctoral program's qualifying exam.

Speaking of which some programs have an exam (often called the qualifier) explicitly for checking peoples preparation. These programs may accept your assertion that you are ready with limited documentary evidence, because they are going check it for themselves sometime during the first year.

ManishEarth

Dec 13, 2013 01:04

@crazy note that classical mechanics= Lagrangian/Hamiltonian mech, not pulley mass problems :p There's a whole lot of formulism that gets useful later on.

Do classical and linear algebra, then QM (Introductory+couple more courses worth; you want to go from schrodinger to H atom to operator formulism to Dirac's eqn and beyond.) Sakurai 1+2 works, or Beiser+Dirac, at least for getting a good qm foundation.

Electromag is also something you can delve into. Feynman has some great chapters, from there you can go to Griffiths/Jackson.

Optics: E. Hecht is an awesome book.

You probably want a course that looks at ODE's from a lin alg POV. We had a half sem one and it was really helpful.

For GTR there are many self contained books, but it might be easier to familiarize yourself with tensors first.

As for edX/Coursera, I dunno. Quality varies from course to course. I prefer books, but my friends who have taken courses have had both good and bad experiences with it.

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 01:23

@ManishEarth there are ODE courses not based on linear algebra?

user54412

but why??

ManishEarth

Dec 13, 2013 01:47

@chris There are some that deal with a random bunch of methods. Our first half sem ODE course was only half lin alg related.

ManishEarth

Dec 13, 2013 02:57

@chris Oh, also, in case you are specifically analysing nonlinearity, then aside from the Jacobian you don't really touch linear algebra.

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 03:18

well, indeed - nonlinearity is terrible

user54412

also basically intractable anyway

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite If that's only the case, it's cool with me. I'm confident that I'll finish off a few topics within these two years ;-)

@ChrisWhite For instance, khan academy -- most of the things are easy. Yeah, armed with that, I surfed through the archived courses in edX (E&M from MIT) yesterday. It appeared quite nice. The thing is, if we intended to cheat a little bit, we can, and of course eliminate the challenges easily. Only if we decide to not Google about that, and think a little bit - the course might be worthy...

@dmckee I'll try that for sure, and rant here about my experience later :P

@ManishEarth HEY..!!! I know that. Just that I haven't taken a course on that. But, I've some experience in Phys.SE :P

@ManishEarth Yeah, books are always safe & secure. Phew, I got book suggestions. Maybe I should bookmark this convo :)

Okay, thank you guys @ChrisWhite @dmckee @ManishEarth and @BrandonEnright (for yesterday's chat) ;-)

I miss only one... @DavidZ

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 03:33

@CrazyBuddy are you going for the opinions of all the chat regulars?

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite Nah, I'll just keep those in mind :)

I'm not going anywhere :P

@ChrisWhite: I'm somewhat interested in hearing your history... Like, how's schooling & colg. there, what did you do after high school and enter now into Ph.D

You're not gonna sleep anyway :P

And you too @ManishEarth :)

Kyle Kanos

We're scientists, we don't sleep

5

user54412

I don't know how interesting my history is

user54412

I went to a small public high school - nothing special, no record of any remarkable academic acheivements

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite Duh, I'm already sick of that here :D

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 03:39

somehow - probably an admissions committee mistake ;) - I got into Caltech

Crazy Buddy

@KyleKanos Yeah, I know ;-)

user54412

and there I proceeded to immerse myself in math, science, philosophy, and just thinking for 4 straight years

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite Wait... So, the colleges there - we can try all the courses, all at once? o_O

user54412

@CrazyBuddy curricula here are much more freeform than in India

Crazy Buddy

ah... (sigh) :/

okay, go on... :)

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 03:41

there are required classes, but every college I know has plenty of choices for electives, both in your major and importantly outside of it

user54412

usually at least

Crazy Buddy

mmm...

user54412

a counterexample is ChemE at caltech - they had so many requirements they couldn't take anything else - so I guess it does happen

Crazy Buddy

hehe :D

user54412

the US emphasizes a broader, more "well-rounded" education compared to India or even to Europe

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 03:43

most college students here just go to college because it's expected that everyone goes to college these days, at least everyone middle class and upward

user54412

so most just bumble along for 4, 5, maybe 6 years, trying to figure out what to do with themselves and their parents' money

Kyle Kanos

I paid for my education

My wife got a scholarship

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite Meaning? the system is quite strong? I guess Manish has some bad experience. He's lucky he didn't join any colleges controlled by state gov. -_-

Kyle Kanos

I took 5 years, she took 3.5

user54412

@KyleKanos cool - I think you'll agree that's not too common these days, though

Kyle Kanos

Dec 13, 2013 03:46

@ChrisWhite Most of the students I teach are having mum & pup paying for ti

*it

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite Ugh... That happens here too -_-

user54412

@CrazyBuddy meaning students here are expected to just "know more" after college, whereas elsewhere they are expected to "know how to do their job"

user54412

I'm not saying one system is better than the other - but they are quite different

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite yeah, I get that...

@ChrisWhite Nah, but I can safely say it's much better than mine :D

user54412

well, you never know quite what you'll learn from college until you're older and looking back on it

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 03:49

I can say that I never learned time management skills, for instance, but on the other hand I had any fear of not knowing something beaten out of me - there's no such thing as a task so big I'm afraid to try, since I got used to failing at hard things all too many times

user54412

or the undergrads here, I feel, learn very useful networking and policy-making skills just from interacting with each other cough @DavidZ

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite As far as me, my colg. is the reason that I got into Physics. I mean, I hate the environment there, which is what made me involve in Phys.SE (I got lucky, for once) :D

@ChrisWhite "Failing most of the time" -- that happens during physics courses. Right? :P

Brandon Enright

@ChrisWhite Caltech was my dream school. Was pretty devastated when I didn't get in. I got in to UC San Diego though, probably due to an admission mistake. It turned out to be perfect for me though and I realized about halfway through my college career that because I was such a bad student, it was probably good that I got into a non-top-tier school. I'm pretty certain I would have failed out of Caltech.

David Z

@ChrisWhite well some of them. I don't know if I'd count myself among them.

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite heh, yeah that too :D

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 03:54

@BrandonEnright or been made very bitter - caltech alums are notoriously resentful of the school - it works very well for some students, but many would have been better off at more "normal" schools

user54412

@CrazyBuddy when applying for grad schools, a lot of them wanted me to compute my physics-courses-only GPA, in addition to my overall GPA - it was then that I realized I got lower grades in physics than anything else :P

user54412

@BrandonEnright also, I though Pasadena had perfect weather, but everyone from San Diego/La Jolla thought the weather in Pasadena just wasn't that good ;)

David Z

@ChrisWhite oh cool, I'm not the only one :-P

Kyle Kanos

@DavidZ Me too

Crazy Buddy

Great... Everyone's a professional physicist, but failed to obtain the grades :P

Kyle Kanos

Dec 13, 2013 03:58

No, we failed to obtain grades in things outside physics

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy Grades are a poor measure of ability, intelligence, or likelihood of success.

Crazy Buddy

@VanishedUser: I think you missed a point (intentionally??). In my profile, there's a strikeout mentioning that I'm currently learning Physics and if you've noticed my messages in h-bar (where I will be, most of the time), you would've known that I hate my engineering course terribly. And, as Manish said, an engineering degree doesn't explain our interest (nor our knowledge) in Physics. Just like the "rep. score" which is a rough measure of our contribution to SE, the degree is a rough measure of our contribution to engineering ;-) — Crazy Buddy Nov 1 at 3:46

Kyle Kanos

@BrandonEnright Debatable on the last aspect, depending on your definition of "success."

Brandon Enright

@KyleKanos Yeah I'll have to concede that point. There are many measures of success.

user54412

I suppose (not sarcastically) that being able to get good marks in some system, however arbitrary, is a useful skill

Crazy Buddy

Dec 13, 2013 04:02

So, @Brandon (/cc @Chris) - regarding the admissions, where are they held? Well, my admissions are based on a cut-off scheme, where they let in loads of people into colleges based on their marks obtained during the last (12th) grade of high-school

Brandon Enright

@ChrisWhite agreed. It's a great measure of ability to follow directions or stick-to-it-ness.

@CrazyBuddy Every country is a bit different. Within a country, every school is a bit different.

Crazy Buddy

@BrandonEnright I thought the country's scheme of letting into colleges might be the same. No?

Kyle Kanos

@CrazyBuddy I think most US universities base it on cumulative GPA from your HS (grades 9-12) and your SAT scores

Crazy Buddy

ah...

Kyle Kanos

But there's different standards of what is an acceptable lower limit on GPA & SAT scores

David Z

Dec 13, 2013 04:03

@CrazyBuddy Each university is free to determine who it wants to admit by whatever criteria it wants

user54412

the ~~smaller the school~~ fewer the applicants the more time they have (in theory) to research the applicants, like by reading recommendations

Kyle Kanos

I've seen some that have accepted a minimum 2.5 GPA and an 800 on the SAT (out of 1600). I've also seen some that require 3.2+ GPA and 1200+ GPA

David Z

A lot of universities don't have explicit GPA or SAT score cutoffs.

Well, some, at least. Maybe a lot.

user54412

indeed - schools like to have at least a few "interesting" or "unique" people too - students who stand out, even if not academically

Kyle Kanos

@DavidZ When I was applying for undergrad, they definitely were publishing those values...at least the upper-tier Unis

David Z

Dec 13, 2013 04:07

Hm, I seem to remember Princeton saying that they don't have explicit cutoffs.

Of course the median SAT score of the people they did admit was probably something like 1500+ out of 1600, so they didn't need cutoffs anyway...

user54412

@DavidZ and I seem to remember Princeton rejecting me, whatever my scores were

user54412

;)

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite What? Why? :D

David Z

@ChrisWhite well it is kind of like a lottery. Though I would argue you got the better experience there anyway.

Kyle Kanos

Well, I've got to be off. One of the twins is awake and needs her mommy.

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 04:09

@KyleKanos see ya

David Z

A PhD from a top university carries a lot more weight than a bachelor's degree from the same school.

@KyleKanos see you

Crazy Buddy

@KyleKanos C'ya later :)

Brandon Enright

@DavidZ I totally agree with this.

user54412

@CrazyBuddy indeed it is a lottery - "top" schools receive 5, 10, 20 times as many applicants as they have room for, and most of those who bother applying are capable of doing well there

David Z

@BrandonEnright and to clarify (perhaps you knew), I mean the relative amount by which a PhD from a top school is more impressive than the average PhD far exceeds the relative amount by which a bachelor's degree from a top school is more impressive than the average bachelor's degree.

Crazy Buddy

Dec 13, 2013 04:13

I guess I'd have to do more research on foreign colleges. They're very different in a lot of ways :D

Brandon Enright

@DavidZ Yeah "normalizing" the degree.

user54412

@CrazyBuddy have you considered at all applying to study abroad for a summer?

Crazy Buddy

@DavidZ That really takes my time (to understand) :)

user54412

I don't know how common it is, or how likely there is to be funding/available positions, but it might be worth looking into

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite Um, pardon me but I don't understand. What's summer?

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 04:16

@CrazyBuddy hmmm, do you not get off for ~3 months, June-August or something?

user54412

I mean, I know it's always hot there ;)

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite Nah... My sem (usually) ends on July. And, the next sem starts on Aug. Duh...

user54412

wow - intense

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite And, we don't usually get the whole vacation. Last time, we had a NSS camp (like go to a village, clean the streets, etc.)

... which sucked 10 days of my vacation -_-

user54412

to American students, aged all the way 6-21, a 3-month summer vacation is like a basic human right

Crazy Buddy

Dec 13, 2013 04:20

(sigh)

user54412

well at least you're being productive

Crazy Buddy

I hope so. And, can you expound what "summer" means? :D

Is that, a kind of... research?

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy For grad students it usually means research but "summer" in the US is really just 3 months of time you're not in school you can do pretty much whatever you want.

Crazy Buddy

@ChrisWhite: So, that 3-months is enough to have a course in the abroad?

Brandon Enright

@CrazyBuddy "Summer abroad" for 2-3 months is really common for US and Europe.

user54412

Dec 13, 2013 04:24

@CrazyBuddy lots of profs at research-heavy universities also take on students for helping on small research projects for those months, so it's not always classes

Crazy Buddy

ah...

user54412

I spent a total of 3 summers doing research, and the other 13 or so summers of my youth were spent vegetating on a couch

Crazy Buddy

lol :D

Okay, nice chat with you all... Thank you guys :)

I'll better bookmark this conversation as a whole :D

@ChrisWhite Regarding that, I really honor my classmates. They're pretty much okay, with the system unlike me, who can't (in any way) accept that that's the way to survive :)

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