Conversation started Dec 19, 2010 at 21:00.
Dec 19, 2010 21:00
ok, so...site promotion discussion time?
yeah. so it's just us two again?
I guess so
mbq registered to show up so hopefully he'll be here at some point
and kalle43 might decide to tune in
admittedly this chat session is not going to be too effective if it's just those few of us who have already been talking about promotion ;-)
yay another person! :-)
Hi Rakshit
Hi guys
Marek I answered his last question, whereas you answered his first question. Im not gonna spam the comment field
Hi gigacyan :-)
Dec 19, 2010 21:07
Hello everyone
OK, so obviously any new ideas about promoting the site will be fantastic
but besides that, I thought we could go over the ideas that have been brought up before
I figure it might make it easier for people to start putting them into action
My 2 cents.. a lot of people coming in will be in search for answers to simple questions.
Are we aiming at physicists or general public?
So far we've been aiming at undergrad-level physics students and higher
not the general public
@RakshitPai I suppose that is true
The issue with simple questions of the kind that the general public (i.e. people who aren't educated in physics) ask is that they can easily be ill-defined, and basically all we can meaningfully say is "physics can't answer this question"
Hi Ami :-)
Ami
Ami
Hi David
Dec 19, 2010 21:15
Certainly in order to promote the site effectively we need to know our intended audience
@DavidZaslavsky People who aren't formally educated in physics but are curious about how things work could come up with questions like, "how does gravity work" or "how do you determine the gravitational pull on objects"
@RakshitPai ok, true. The latter of those is a well-phrased question, although at a basic level
but I'm not sure what kind of answer we should offer for the first one
Hi Chad :-)
@DavidZaslavsky Direct them to content like - wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_gravity_work ? Or quote portions from it
I guess we could
I think that it is ok to answer simple questions. They attract more people and we need any promotion in the beginning. Also, there are probably not so many popular trivial questions about relativity of quantum mechanics and they have to be answered once but will attract people forever :)
Ami
Ami
Dec 19, 2010 21:20
As a physics undergrad, I think that some of the problems explored and formulas derived in a course on undergraduate mechanics, modern physics, thermo, and electromagnetism are really elegant, subtle and beautiful. I have a nice collection of these types of problems in my notes and I would love to see more of them discussed on this site.
@Ami It would be nice if you can seed those as content for the site
@Ami so would I. I'm tempted to say that we might be better off ignoring the advice we got from higher up about "seeding" (asking questions you already know the answer to)
i.e. they said don't do it - I think it was on one of the SO blog posts
but it might work for us
Ami
Ami
I'd be happy to
hello everyone! had to go away for a while
the trick is to ask it in a way that doesn't make it sound silly
Ami
Ami
Dec 19, 2010 21:23
Ie: a rigorous derivation for the stability of Earth's orbit
...done in a general (purely symbolic) form
@gigacyan that is a fair point, but the concern I've had is that if we admit these simple questions, we'll be swamped by them
and that will discourage experts from visiting the site
Ami
Ami
I think this is a great question: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/383/…
@Ami I would like to see that too
by the way: for anyone who doesn't know the interface, if you hover over the right side of any chat message you'll see three little icons which can be used to flag the message, star it (like upvoting), or reply to it respectively
@DavidZaslavsky I know what you mean but experts should first learn about this site which is what this discussion is about. I don't suggest answering every simple question but there are few that appear all the time.
mbq
mbq
Hello all.
Dec 19, 2010 21:28
I agree with David about the quality of the site. In the last few days there have been lots of nice questions as advanced as AdS/CFT and the front page already has a little better feel thanks to it
@gigacyan okay, well we can keep an eye out for good simple questions. I guess the important thing is that the question can be answered in a high-quality way
If you have ideas for simple questions that can still solicit great answers, I'd say just ask them
@David: good point
Ami
Ami
My favorite question on the site: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1683/…
mbq
mbq
Than it is also important to give questions some time to prove their greatness.
@Ami It is not; the amount of LaTeX holds it even on my 8 core Xeon.
@Ami: it was nice in that it made people think a lot. But I am not sure it's very useful as far as answers go and so on. I don't think Q&A based site that doesn't have a reasonable format for discussions is actually good for these types of questions
Dec 19, 2010 21:33
@Ami Yeah, that one generated a lot of interest, although I agree with @mbq and @Marek about certain downsides
Ami
Ami
@Marek If the site gets enough volume, the answers will be "peer reviewed" by qualified eyes and only the best answers will get voted up.
mbq
mbq
@Marek Well, the idea is that great questions are so great that they don't need any discussion, just get upvoted right to the top.
About the promotion: I was trying to put together the posters but I didn't get to it in the end. Perhaps over the Christmas. Does anyone has good ideas about what should go into such poster (e.g. just questions, or also answers? And what questions concretely?)
Ah yes, good idea: actual promotion ;-)
Ami
Ami
Did anyone see this question on the programmers site?: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/7806/…
Dec 19, 2010 21:36
@Marek I would go for just questions myself, just one or two per poster of the ones that an undergrad or grad student would find enticing
mbq
mbq
"We will do your homework!"
Ami
Ami
Thats the type of question (the one I posted from programmers) has a wide enough appeal that I'd be happy to post on my facebook page. I think a question like that would be great for promotion of the physics site too.
@ami: good stuff. We should poll for such a thing ourselves
I think that could work out well
By the way if XKCD mentioned Physics.SE it would be a great promotion :)
2
Dec 19, 2010 21:38
@gigacyan ooh yes
does anyone have a connection to Randall?
Ami
Ami
@Marek Here's the type of "answers" we could hope for with a question like that: princeton.edu/~artofsci/gallery2010
@gigacyan: we already talked about getting relevant blogs and other sites to mention us. But it's easier said than done :-)
Ami
Ami
and require some explanation about why the picture is significant
Actually, it probably isn't that hard. Just someone should go over the blogs and send mails. I wonder who'll that be :-)
By the way, for whatever concrete plans we come up with, we can probably get the support of the Stack Exchange team
Dec 19, 2010 21:40
@ami: yeah, very good idea
If you could get it plugged on twit.tv/kiki - that would be great
mbq
mbq
Well, there are few blogs that appear in referring sites;
500 visits total.
@mbq: those sites actually refer to us? that's pretty great. I love both qiao's and marco's blogs. perhaps it wouldn't be so hard to convince others as well
Actually, I found this site through IgorIvanov.blogspot.com. Elementy.ru is also his site.
I'm sure there must be some hierarchy of physics blogs that we could work our way up
mbq
mbq
Dec 19, 2010 21:44
@Marek This is a lower league.
CrossValidated has most "referred" traffic from Twitter.
@mbq: sure. well, I am not really knowledgeable about how various blogs stands but I think TRF must be pretty high (it won science category in wordpress last year, or something like that)
It wouldn't be hard or out of line to send email to people running higher-traffic blogs. I've mentioned it a few times on ScienceBlogs, and you could probably get one or more of the Cosmic Variance bloggers to mention it.
Ami
Ami
First timers want to see a great question and answer, not a generic Q&A site.
IMO: if a blogger is going to make a plug, he/she should link to a specific "great question," not the site as a whole.
3
@ami: definitely. As Jeff pointed out on meta, if a professional physicist takes a look on the site they are not likely to come back. We have to bring the good stuff (and there is some good stuff already) directly under their noses
@Ami preferably not the one where it takes a minute to parse the MathJax ;-)
Dec 19, 2010 21:48
Google is good promoter. If you search any question title you get first link to Physics.SE, so we should post questions that physicists are likely to search in google.
2
heh
mbq
mbq
@gigacyan This is a desired (in SE terms) way.
Sites from SOFU has number of visits \approx number of views.
seriously though, we do have some pretty good questions other than the one about the rail tank wagon
Ami
Ami
@DavidZaslavsky agreed
@gigacyan, @mbq so maybe it would be worthwhile to go over some of the better questions and think about ways to improve titles
Dec 19, 2010 21:49
15
Q: What is known about the topological structure of spacetime?

EricGeneral relativity says that spacetime is a Lorentzian 4-manifold $M$ whose metric satisfies Einstein's field equations. I have two questions: What topological restrictions do Einstein's equations put on the manifold. For instance, the existence of a Lorentz metric implies some topological th...

possibly:
12
Q: Hamiltonian Principle

tsudotHamiltonian's principle states that a dynamic system always follows a path such that action integral is stationary (that is maximum or minimum). Why should action integral be stationary? On what basis did Hamilton stated this principle?

mbq
mbq
In fact, the best Google magnet now is "instability of cylindrical column of water"
giving this
on the second Google page.
4
Q: Why do liquids separate in space?

JonathanI've seen videos of people in space (on ISS) who squeeze a bottle or something and liquid comes out, it then separates into smaller balls. Why is this surely it should stay pretty much together because theres no gravity from the Earth so the liquid should attract itself?

Generated 405 visits.
Yet "ising model for dummies"
gives this on a first place:
8
Q: Ising model for dummies

Francisco P.Hello, I am looking for some literature on the Ising model, but I'm having a hard time doing so. All the documentation I seem to find is way over my knowledge. Can you direct me to some documentation on it that can be parsed by my puny undergrad brain? If the answer is negative, can you explain...

But only 101 visits.
I could see that the number of people searching for 'Ising model...' is relatively low, but that is kind of strange
Ami
Ami
I guess different people are looking for different things. Myself, if the mathjax doesn't cause my browser to hang for a minute I'm disappointed.
There's an essential tension between wanting to have more expert-level discussions and at the same time wanting more overall traffic. The number of physicists out there just isn't that large.
mbq
mbq
@Ami I'll report it to the team; they should make a timeout that kills this stuff.
Dec 19, 2010 21:55
@chad: for that there's a cure of asking elementary questions that require expert answers. it's not easy to find those though
I mean, seemingly elementary
Ami
Ami
@ChadOrzel How many physicist are there? Less than mathematicians? The math SE sites are doing just fine...
@Ami lol ;-) while I can appreciate math-intensive questions and answers, that probably won't be good for us in the grand scheme of things
@Ami I think there's a cultural difference between sciences in the way they deal with the Internet.
My suggestion is attract more people first and sort them out later. It means simpler questions at the beginning that might scare away some experts but I think it is better then very slow growth with only high level questions.
For whatever reason, mathematicians have really embraced social media, while physicists have not to the same degree. It's kind of like the way that nobody has yet managed a life-science analogue of the arxiv, despite several attempts.
mbq
mbq
Dec 19, 2010 21:59
@Ami IMO it is that physics answers are on Wikipedia. Mathematical answers also, but they need more human refinement, and Q&A fills this gap.
@mbq: huh? I thought it's the complete opposite
Ami
Ami
@Marek I was going to say the exact same thing
wikipedia has a lot of "popular" physics, but is weak when it comes to rigorous and high-level physics
mathematical stuff can actually always be deduced. in physics one makes all kinds of assumptions and approximations that deserve to be explained but are not usually
Wikipedia has weirdly detailed articles on some areas of physics, and clumsily plagiarized articles on many others. It's a very strange mix.
mbq
mbq
@ChadOrzel But it gets Google traffic.
Dec 19, 2010 22:01
@gigacyan I don't think that's practical but it's an interesting idea
@mbq True enough. That's how I know what sort of physics articles exist on Wikipedia, after all...
it's just because there's no alternative yet (except for some forums of even more varying quality)
mbq
mbq
@Marek Look for "quantum harmonic oscillator" and "What is a Fourier transform of first B_0(x^a) if a>7?".
Whatever B_0 means (-;
@DavidZaslavsky I realized my mistake: I was only thinking of attracting people who will ask questions but it is more important to find people willing to answer them.
Ami
Ami
People who use math.SE do so because they have an appreciation for beautiful mathematics. People who come to physics.se may do so for one of two reasons: 1) to better understand the world in a tangible intuitive way, 2) because the derivations and the math involved are amazingly elegant in a way that is parallel but also very distinct from pure mathematics.
Dec 19, 2010 22:04
So far 90% of answers are given by the same 5-10 users
@mbq: what should I be looking for?
first one gives me wikipedia, second one nothing relevant it seems
Ami
Ami
as of now we are catering well to the first group and we should continue to do so. I think this site could cater better to the second group.
@gigacyan true. Though I guess we need both to some extent. Anyway I do appreciate the thought you're putting into this, even if I may disagree sometimes
@gigacyan I tend to think there are a decent number of people answering questions, but I agree it could be higher.
mbq
mbq
@Marek This is why Maths need Q&A more than Physics.
Dec 19, 2010 22:06
@mbq: I think the oscillator is a very rare exception. I don't think I've ever seen better site at wikipedia
s/site/article/
wow, it's been an hour already. Not that we have to stop or anything ;-) but would people be in favor of another scheduled chat session in a few days?
mbq
mbq
@Marek Ok, let's say "vortex"; wiki article is a junk, but it is.
Ami
Ami
@DavidZaslavsky I'm in favor, but mostly because I have to go now :(
@mbq: there are also lots of great math articles and some junk. I don't think we can decide this by listing few examples :-)
mbq
mbq
@Marek It is not about content, it is about an access.
Dec 19, 2010 22:09
@david: perhaps, but depends very much on a precise day
@Ami sure, I'll put something up on meta, probably editing the same question we used for this one.
see you later ;-)
@mbq: what do you mean?
@Marek of course, we'll try to figure out another time that works for many people, if not everybody
mbq
mbq
@DavidZaslavsky You wanted to say track chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/71/physics?tab=schedule (-;
@ami: see you! you have very good ideas, so it'd great if you could come again
Dec 19, 2010 22:10
@DavidZaslavsky You might want to go farther out than that, what with the holidays-- early January might be better. Unless there's some urgent need to boost traffic sooner.
Ami
Ami
@DavidZaslavsky See you. I'm looking forward to putting some serious time into this site. I think it has great potential.
@mbq oh yes, let's just say that's what I meant ;-)
(still some features I don't know about)
mbq
mbq
@Marek Mathematics problems are harder to Google; you need a human to connect a problem with a keyword.
Ami
Ami
@Marek @all have a good night.
 
Conversation ended Dec 19, 2010 at 22:11.