Conversation started Oct 19, 2016 at 22:57.
rob
rob
Oct 19, 2016 22:57
@heather Most people find that mixing real numbers with imaginary numbers is complex
2
@rob, well, it probably helps that I already know a bit about the complex plane and stuff.
rob
rob
@heather Just so
@rob, I'm sorry, I don't know quite what that means, though I've heard the expression.
rob
rob
After a while I suppose it all becomes rather plane
2
@heather Complex numbers are basically "imaginary number + real number"
Oct 19, 2016 23:00
plane? very punny =P
@SirCumference, indeed.
If I asked you what "$3i + 1$" is equal to, you can't figure that out
You have to call $3i + 1$ a number in itself. We call those numbers complex numbers
Let's see, it'd be $\sqrt{-3}+1$, right?
Or then, approximately
oh, wait, no...
okay, I get what you mean now.
It'd be $\sqrt{-9}$, actually
rob
rob
Explained puns are the worst puns
You take the square root of the number, and if the number is negative, you put an $i$
Oct 19, 2016 23:03
oh, yeah.
right. =)
But interestingly, the cube root of $-9$ is completely real
Only even-numbered roots produce imaginary numbers.
@rob It's almost PUNishment ^^
rob
rob
My last ten posts to this room have all been puns, trying to see if any would get a response out of you guys
... unfortunately no pun in ten did
3
@rob, well, you sort of got a response from me...
We can take $\sqrt[3]{-9}$ and get $-3$, because $-3 \times -3 \times -3 = -9$
Oct 19, 2016 23:05
Feeling PUNny?
@SirCumference, don't you mean of 27?
@heather Yep, I'm stupid
not stupid
rob
rob
@SirCumference careless != stupid
Oct 19, 2016 23:06
Maybe
I've made much, much, much, much $\times \infty$ more mistakes. And what rob said.
@rob You know, math puns can be enjoyable. You just gotta look at them from the right angle.
Right angle.
...right angle...
rob
rob
@SirCumference That's the normal way to do it
Oct 19, 2016 23:06
@rob ARGH
@rob, $\sqrt{-1} \, \, \, 8^3 \, \sum \, \pi$ and it was delicious.
$!$: an attempt to make math more exciting
@heather Get real. ($i$)
And be rational. ($\pi$)
Oct 19, 2016 23:08
Or, let me think, I saw a good one the other day...
Yeah?
This is what sets me off.
there is a fine line between the numerator and the denominator...
Oct 19, 2016 23:09
whenever you start graphing functions I get worried...
because you are plotting something.
I can't remember the difference between the numerator and denominator, I always get it mixed
math puns are the first sine of madness.
...sine...
Oct 19, 2016 23:10
I'm going off on a tangent, I knkow.
Indeed
@BernardMeurer We're making math puns. They're integral parts of our life.
rob
rob
My friend with poor credit is trying to rent an apartment. She's asked me to cosine the lease, but I'm going back and forth about it
Eventually I suppose I'll come around.
........
Oct 19, 2016 23:11
Yeah?
to the guy who invented zero: thanks for nothing!
@rob Secant afford it?
(she can't)
@SirCumference BOOOO
@SirCumference STOP
the romans didn't find algebra very exciting
because X was always 10
@Obliv Nay, the best puns are the worst puns.
Oct 19, 2016 23:12
Nothing's that absence of something, Yet it must be true that there's nothing.
Therefore something always exists.
a farmer with a field of cows counted 96 of them, but when he rounded them up he had 100
Yeah for real
there are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't
rob
rob
@heather Sure it wasn't shepherd? Sounds like fuzzy math
@rob when maximizing a curve $f(x,y)$ by a constraint $g(x,y)=k$ they must both lie on the same tangent plane, right? Doesn't that mean either can be a scalar multiple of the other? So in a sense $\lambda \nabla f(x,y) = \nabla g(x,y) \equiv \nabla f(x,y) = \lambda \nabla g(x,y)$?
Oct 19, 2016 23:14
this conversation needs to be immortalized
for a different value of $\lambda$ tho
rob
rob
@Obliv You're going to make me turn on MathJax to get your joke
You mean, MathJokes?
I'm being serious, though. lol
@rob Uh, you don't just use ChatJax++?
Oct 19, 2016 23:15
Yeah
Saves you from that problem
From the knowledge of function came the error, that was the first problem.
rob
rob
@SirCumference I hadn't done so yet ... and after the spate of \renewcommand{\foo}{I'm a doofus} that went on in the sidebar the other day I think I'll refrain.
@rob Uh, what?
Thanks
rob
rob
Oct 19, 2016 23:18
@SirCumference Never mind.
@rob Explain pls
Why, what happens if I do $\renewcommand{\foo}{I'm a doofus}$?
eh wtf?
$\foo$
No idea what I'm supposed to be seeing
$\sum$ people like math puns
$\sum$ people don't
rob
rob
@SirCumference chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/32954366#32954366 and preceding conversation.
@Obliv You asked me a real question.
@rob Er, I don't follow...
rob
rob
Oct 19, 2016 23:20
...which I don't immediately understand.
thanks
@rob it wasn't a real question though. I was just wrapping my head around the two functions having to lie on the same tangent plane. only way those two would be equivalent would be $\lambda_2 = \frac{1}{\lambda_1}$
maybe
rob
rob
@Obliv So you're looking for maxima on some surface f(x,y)?
where some other function g(x,y) must have a particular constant value?
I don't recognize the "tangent plane" in this context.
thanks
Is you helping Rob?
Oct 19, 2016 23:26
if you have the equation of a circle, say $(x-13.4)^2 + (y+2.6)^2 = 100$, how do you find the center point and radius without graphing?
I have a vague notion that the radius is the square root of the constant on the right, but I'm probably wrong.
maybe
rob
rob
@Obliv I think I've parsed your statement, but I don't understand it straightaway. Why would your function to maximize and its constraint need to share a tangent plane?
@rob g(x,y) doesn't have to constant actually
rob
rob
@Obliv Oh. I thought you said that the constraint was g(x,y) = k
Actually, not really sure @rob I was trying to figure that out but I can't logically conclude that they must.
yeah I should have specified that k isn't a constant
Oct 19, 2016 23:29
A constants simply a chosen container size, therefore either.
in that case they lie on the same tangent plane
rob
rob
@Obliv Ah, now I see.
You is very helpful, thanks for helping Rob.
rob
rob
So if g(x,y) is a 2d surface, g(x,y)=k (for some particular constant k) is a contour line, like you'd find on a topographical map.
Your image shows one contour for g, and a handful of contours for f.
Oct 19, 2016 23:36
@rob yes
Yeah!
and we want the largest value contour line in which f and g intersect each other.
rob
rob
And you observe that a line tangent to g(x,y) = k is also tangent to f(x,y) = k' where k' is the largest value of f(x,y) on the g() contour.
@Obliv Yes, this.
But that's not a tangent plane, is it?
Wait, a line tangent to g(x,y) = k is tangent to f(x,y) = k'? I don't see that immediately.
Oct 19, 2016 23:39
Hi, everybody.
Hey @daniel
Yeah!
@rob Oh cool! Are we learning about Lagrange multipliers?
rob
rob
I mean, suppose that g(x,y) has some maximum at the origin in your figure
and f(x,y) has its maximum, apparently, in the upper right of your figure.
@daniel yeah I am trying to justify why two functions would have the same gradient (by some scalar factor) at a maximum b/t the two
rob
rob
Oct 19, 2016 23:41
The tangent plane to g(x,y) at the intersection you marked comes out of the plane of the screen to the lower left
@DanielSank, hello!
rob
rob
but the tangent plane to f(x,y) comes out of the plane of the screen to the upper right
Or do I misunderstand what you mean by tangent plane?
@Obliv Oh, yeah, rob's picture proves it.
@heather Yo.
rob
rob
@DanielSank It's Obliv's picture ... I'm not convinced of the proof.
@daniel I'm just thinking of a case where $g(x,y) = k$ crosses $f(x,y) = c$ for some $c$ then doesn't cross f(x,y) = c again afterwards
rob
rob
Oct 19, 2016 23:43
The gradients, on the other hand ... in your example the gradients are parallel. Is that what you mean?
@rob What's wrong with the proof?
The picture's a pretty good proof.
like, imagine if g(x,y) = k passed the point marked on the picture then never touched f(x,y) = 11 or f(x,y) = 9 again. Would they still share a tangent plane at f(x,y) = 10?
@Obliv Why do you care if there are multiple solutions?
rob
rob
@Obliv Can you define "tangent plane"?
Sure, there can be multiple solutions. So what?
Oct 19, 2016 23:45
@rob do you have mathjax turned on?
rob
rob
@Obliv I'll manage ... TeX away
@rob $\nabla f \cdot g = 0$ would define the tangent plane b/t f,g
rob
rob
Precedence question: gradient of the product of f and g? Or gradient of f, multiplied by g?
latter @rob
@daniel Hmm, I for some reason thought that the solution would only be at the red lines in that picture lol..
what if g(x,y) intersects the maximum of f(x,y)? would the lagrange multipliers method still work? @daniel
rob
rob
Got to check out. Stay real, folks (except @heather: stay complex)
 
Conversation ended Oct 19, 2016 at 23:50.