Conversation started Sep 21, 2017 at 5:39.
Sep 21, 2017 05:39
Did you mean homotopy or "homotopy equivalence"?
Homeomorphism is a map, homotopy is a family of maps, which is why I am asking.
You can't really compare two completely different objects
@BalarkaSen I believe I mean homotopy equivalence, yes
Alright, great. Do you know what "homotopy" means?
Like how I can say a moebius strip and a cylinder are homotopic (is that the correct terminology?)
Make that "homotopy equivalent" and that's correct.
@BalarkaSen Not formally
@BalarkaSen Alright, got it, ``homotopy equivalent''
Sep 21, 2017 05:43
The idea is the following. If $f: X \to Y$ and $g : X \to Y$ are two (continuous) maps, they are homotopic if there is a family $f_t : X \to Y$ of maps interpolating them, i.e., $f_0 = f$ and $f_1 = g$.
And this "family" has to be continuous in parameter $t$, whatever that means.
Is this on the surface clear? Don't bother about the formalism very much, think of it as interpolation between maps
I'm not sure what you mean by "interpolating" there
Do you just mean that every $f_t$ is equal to either $f$ or $g$?
Ah, no, merely that $f_{t = 0} = f$ and $f_{t = 1} = g$. For time $0 < t < 1$, $f_t$ can be whatever.
It's like interpolating points by polynomials
You join two points by some curve
Here you join two maps by some family of maps
Ah, so $t\in\Bbb R$?
$t \in [0, 1]$, in particular, yep!
What can I say about $f_{t=0.5}$?
Assuming $f$ and $g$ are homotopic
Sep 21, 2017 05:49
Nothing much! $f$ and $g$ being homotopic merely means there exists some interpolating family $\{f_t\}_{t \in [0, 1]}$ going between them. There can be a lot of such families, and $f_{t = 1/2}$ would depend very much on what family you choose.
Alright, cool
Let's finish with the formalism since we are here so far. If $X$ and $Y$ are two (topological) spaces, we say they are "homotopy equivalent" if there is a map $f : X \to Y$ such that there is a "homotopy inverse" $g : Y \to X$. Namely, $fg : Y \to Y$ is homotopic to the identity map $\text{id} : Y \to Y$ and $gf : X \to X$ is homotopic to the identity map $\text{id} : X \to X$.
What's an identity map?
Maps things into themselves?
Yep, just $\text{id}(y) = y$.
The map which does nothing.
Alright
Okay so they're homotopy equivalent if there's a function which has an inverse
Sep 21, 2017 05:53
Inverse only upto homotopy, though! $fg$ need not be equal to the identity map, for example.
Just homotopic to it (there's an interpolating family from $fg$ to the identity map)
And then the composition of the function and it's inverse is homotopic to the identity function of the domain
LOOK AT ME USING WORDS
Okay
Now
When you say "Inverse only up to homotopy" does this mean I can't use IFT to determine whether $g$ exists for some $f$?
Nope!
This brings us to the notion of homeomorphism, actually.
If $X$ and $Y$ are homeomorphic, what that means is there is a map $f : X \to Y$ such that there is an actual fucking inverse $g : Y \to X$. Aka, $fg = \text{id}_Y$ is the identity map $Y \to Y$, and $gf = \text{id}_X$ is the identity map $X \to X$.
Oh damn
So homeomorphism is like super homotopy equivalence
Like more stronk
Sep 21, 2017 05:57
Yeah, it's much stronger than homotopy equivalence.
Basically, if you have two geometric objects which you can deform from one to another without cutting or gluing, just bending, stretching, doing things to it, then they are homeomorphic.
It's really the right notion of "equivalence" of spaces.
Cool, so, will a homeomorphism maintain all properties? I.e if I apply a homeomorphism $h\colon X\to Y$ will Y retain all properties of X?
Like, idk, being closed, open, compact, so on
Very much so! All the topological properties are preserved.
For example you mentioned compact
That means the sphere ($S^2$) and the plane ($\Bbb R^2$) are not homeomorphic
If I change the genus of a shape in my transformation it won't even be homotopy equivalent, right?
One is compact, the other ain't
@Bernardo Well, genus is something that makes sense for only a small class of 2-dimensional spaces. Surfaces, in particular. But yes, two surfaces of different genus are NOT homotopy equivalent.
The torus and the sphere are not homotopy equivalent for example.
You are absolutely correct.
So like if I have a disc without the origin, it's not homeomorphic to a circle?
Sep 21, 2017 06:02
Nope, the first one is not compact, the second one is!
They ARE homotopy equivalent though!!
YES
Aha!
This is cool
Are all linear transforms homeomorphisms?
topology is very cool beyond the point-set topology everyone rants about
@BernardoMeurer Yep, linear maps $\Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R^n$ are homeomorphisms.
This makes sense
Awesome
You can just check this, it's like $f(v) = Av$ for some invertible matrix $A$, the inverse is given by $g(v) = A^{-1}v$
That's true, yeah
For homotopy equivalence, how can I figure out whether there's a homotopy inverse since I can't use IFT?
Sep 21, 2017 06:06
Technically speaking IFT doesn't actually give you an inverse, it just gives you a local inverse, for infinitely differentiable maps, and for a restricted class of spaces only (manifolds).
But yeah there's no general algorithm for finding homotopy inverse.
Yes, agreed
Ah, alright
There are strong-ass theorems that tells you there exists a homotopy inverse.
"Whitehead's theorem" is a big gun.
I imagine they're a pain in the ass to apply?
It tells if you check that a certain map $f : X \to Y$ between reasonably nice spaces satisfies a series of algebraic conditions, then $f$ is a homotopy equivalence.
@BernardoMeurer Sometimes, yup. Because the algebraic conditions are not super easy to check.
I remember HATING using Inverse Function Theorem and Implied Function Theorem
Although usually we had to do it on really, really shitty functions
 
Conversation ended Sep 21, 2017 at 6:10.