Conversation started Jan 3, 2012 at 19:55.
Jan 3, 2012 19:55
@Matt 2x +1 from me today. Nice write-ups!
@tb Thank you!
x=0 ?
@Matt small fix to address Matt E's comment: You should consider $s|_{C_{\delta'} \cup O^c}$ which is continuous since it is continuous on $C_{\delta'}$ and constant zero on $O^c$. Now apply Tietze to obtain $s'$ continuous everywhere and bounded by $\|s\|_\infty$.
why 99% people answering the questions think abt the question a home work assignment and hesitate to provide the full answer
QED
QED
Jan 3, 2012 20:05
@coure2011, which?
@Matt You could, provided you use Tietze in the form: Suppose $s: C \to \mathbb{R}$ is continuous on the compact set $C$ and $O \supset C$ is open. Then there exists a continuous extension $s'$ of $s$ with compact support in $O$. The suggestion I made is a proof of this fact.
@Matt also look at the three times upvoted comment by commenter.
@Matt Did you see the point? You want to achieve two things 1) you want to extend $s$ to a continuous function $s'$ with compact support 2) you want the support to be contained in $O_\delta$ (so that you can control the integral $\int_{O_\delta \smallsetminus C_{\delta'}} |f - s'|$)
Jan 3, 2012 20:21
@tb Yes. I had seen that point already but it didn't prevent me from making the same mistake I had made back then.
Jan 3, 2012 20:34
@tb Oh. That's quite an easy fix.
@Matt Just to be on the safe side: Choose an open set with compact closure $O_{\delta}' \supset C_{\delta}$ before applying the fix (the $O_{\delta}$ you chose need not have compact closure)
So you have $C_{\delta} \subset O_{\delta}' \subset O_{\delta}$ and $O_{\delta}'$ has compact closure. Then everything works out fine.
Why can I choose an open set with compact closure?
Since $C_\delta$ is compact and contained in $O_{\delta}$ and since the space is locally compact: for each $c \in C_\delta$ there is an open set $U_c \ni c$ with compact closure contained in $O_{\delta}$ by local compactness. The $U_c$'s cover $C$. Take a finite sub-cover and put $O_{\delta}' = U_{c_1} \cup \cdots \cup U_{c_n}$. The closure of that set is the compact set $\overline{U_{c_1}} \cup \cdots \cup \overline{U_{c_n}}$.
Jan 3, 2012 20:52
@tb I inserted the estimate (7) before removing the odd terms. They follow the same estimates as the even terms, so I modified (7), replacing $2k$ by $k$ without using cancellation
@AsafKaragila It is interesting that God is never mentioned as an exponential in the Bible.
@tb Thank you. Now I'm trying to figure out what will go wrong if the closure is not compact.
@robjohn When the Israelites fought some guys after their escape from the land of Goshen, they only won while Moses held his arms up. If that's not an exponential then I don't know what is exponential.
@tb Have you voted to delete on the "Do algebraists teach analysis sometimes?"
@AsafKaragila In Latin, exponere means "to put out". We had a lot of fun with that in high school.
@robjohn Hah!
@Matt Oh, that's my mistake: you already have the good form of Tietze given in your question, so no need for that move!
Jan 3, 2012 20:59
@AsafKaragila It really means "to explain", but "ex" = "out" and "ponere" = "to put" so we sort of reassembled it :-)
@tb And the bad form is this?
@Matt No :) Here's the really good form (and the one you want to have). Let $X$ be locally compact, let $K \subset X$ be compact and let $f: K \to \mathbb{R}$ be continuous. For every open set $U \supset K$ there exists a continuous function $g: X \to \mathbb{R}$ with $\operatorname{supp}{g} \subset U$ such that $g|_{K} = f$. (tbc)
@Asaf: in which meaning do you use 'your mother'?
(continued): to see this, let $h: X \to \mathbb{R}$ be a continuous function with compact support extending $f$ and $\|f\|_{\infty} = \|h\|_\infty$. By Urysohn's lemma there exists a function $k: X \to \mathbb{R}$ with $0 \leq k \leq 1$ and $k|_K = 1$ and $k|_U = 0$ (by the version in your question). Now let $g = hk$. You will have $g|_{K} = h|_{K} k|_{K} = f$ and $\|g\| \leq \|h\| \cdot \|k\| = \|f\|$ and $\operatorname{supp}{g} = \operatorname{supp}{h} \cap \operatorname{supp}{k} \subset U$.
@Ilya What do you mean?
Jan 3, 2012 21:11
@AsafKaragila that was exactly my question to you
@Ilya Yes.
(that should have been $k|_{X \smallsetminus U} = 0$.)
@AsafKaragila There was some discussion about what you mean when you say "your mother" to people. Does it simply mean the vulgar deprecation, or does it have some other meaning?
@AsafKaragila la repetation est la mere des etudes: in which meaning do you use 'your mother'?
@robjohn thank you ) if we are two halves of the one, then you're the wise half
@robjohn Very good. At the moment, I have no further complaints. I'll look at it a bit later.
Thanks for this!
Jan 3, 2012 21:14
It's just a generic reply, with just a hint of vulgarity... no actual content or attempt to hurt people.
@AsafKaragila thanks - you see, if you put a bit of an effort you can create an answer
Now you'll have to excuse me. It's refill night, and I have to go get hammered.
@tb Thanks for all the criticism. I will ping Didier and see if he is happier with the modified answer.
@Ilya An answer to what?
@robjohn what are you talking about?
@AsafKaragila to either of my questions
Jan 3, 2012 21:17
@Ilya tb has been going through one of my answers and trying to see where Didier might have thought it lacking.
@Ilya 42.
@AsafKaragila you've mixed up me with some mice
@Ilya or at least for someone who cares about cheese.
Do we have something like Springerlink for Cambridge University Press books?
@JonasTeuwen dunno ( never used it
Jan 3, 2012 21:19
Ignore my previous comment, tb.
@JonasTeuwen btw, where would you advise to have a dinner in Brussels and Antwerpen?
Hmm. What budget and what kind of food are you looking for?
@AsafKaragila does it eat cheese?
@JonasTeuwen just normal tasty food. the budget is average 20 pp without drinks
@JonasTeuwen the last time I was to seafood district close to Centraal Station, but non-sea food there was not too tasty. Or maybe I didn't find a good place there
20pp? :-). No I don't know anything for that.
I'll ask my brother, he lives there.
Jan 3, 2012 21:26
@JonasTeuwen ha, never mind then. if only you knew how hard is to convince them even for that price. it's a big money in Russia
No, my brother will know.
I have mailed him, let's see if he will respond.
@tb With this version I don't need to fix anything. But in the post I'll stick to the thing imposed by the assignment.
@AsafKaragila yes.
It surely is possible, but I prefer to go less often and pay more.
@JonasTeuwen then tell me which place and how much - I will go there alone another time
Jan 3, 2012 21:28
@Matt The problem is what I mentioned here
(so you need to do something: your version could create a huge support for the Tietze extension, so you need to cut it down in order to control the integral)
@tb I'm about to do something about it : )
Jan 3, 2012 21:43
@tb To apply Tietze $O^c$ would have to be compact, right?
@Ilya tzilte.be :-).
It has two Michelin stars.
Apply it to $s|_{C_{\delta^\prime} \cup O^c}$ I meant to write but it was too late to edit.
@Matt yes, that's right (and that's not a good hypothesis to have!). That's why you need a bit more massaging... Actually the proof of the version of Tietze you stated should be done in such a way that you get the improved version I gave directly, but from the given tools I don't see a cheaper trick.
Can this problem solve by changing variable formula, i heard the changing of variable formula can work only up to 3 variables- math.stackexchange.com/questions/95120/…
@tb When did I state a proof of Tietze?
Jan 3, 2012 21:54
@Matt You didn't. The proof of (the version of Tietze you stated) :). Actually I know only one proof of Tietze and the proof of the result actually shows more than what's stated in your question.
@tb Parse error : )
@tb So the fix consists of stating the non-evil version of Tietze you stated above and use that? Is this what you're saying?
Probably not. I should probably go to bed and stop badgering you. And re-read our discussion. The answer is probably there.
@Matt yes, exactly. I was looking for an online reference for that, but people don't like to state it in this form.
Jan 3, 2012 22:14
@tb So the evil version was put on the assignment to make it more painful to solve?
: )
@Matt I don't think it was out of purpose. It's the version you find everywhere when you Google it... the point is a slightly subtle one which you only see when you go through the argument in full detail :)
@tb And that's not included in the "service" because it doesn't matter if students are miserable because (almost) no one there cares. (This rant stops here.)
@tb Thanks for today!
Jan 3, 2012 22:30
anyone could answer my problem?
@robjohn?
@Victor yes?
@Matt Well, even Terry Tao sweeps this point under the rug in his ach so wunderbaren notes that pollute all Google searches. Have a nice evening and don't be too hard on yourself: It's a minor point, really.
 
Conversation ended Jan 3, 2012 at 22:33.