Scope Argument Part 2

OrigamiRobot

Mar 22, 2012 14:02

@IanPugsley Like what?

GnomeSlice

10 mins ago, by Ian Pugsley

@GnomeSlice in his mind, entirely (it is not a problem about a game)

Ian Pugsley

4

Q: Does Kinect Sensor Lens need cleaning?

Is it necessary to clean the Kinect Sensor Lens periodically? If yes, how should I do that?

GnomeSlice

@IanPugsley How is that not a gaming problem?

StrixVaria

@IanPugsley That I would argue is not off topic.

Ian Pugsley

6

Q: How can I change the bitrate when I watch a video with Netflix on a PS3?

I know that when watching streaming Netflix videos on the computer is it possible to change the video quality when watching a video. Is is possible to do the same thing when using Netflix on a PS3?

ps3

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:04

That is definitely a gaming problem.

murgatroid99

@IanPugsley But the primary purpose of a Kinect is for gaming

StrixVaria

@IanPugsley This one, not so much.

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley That is off-topic.

Ian Pugsley

@GnomeSlice I think it is, but I'm of the opinion that we should include hardware and console problems even if their context is not related to gaming specifically

StrixVaria

@IanPugsley "You have already voted to close this question "

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:05

@IanPugsley I'm also of this opinion.

Ian Pugsley

@murgatroid99 is it?

I can use my Kinect for video chatting, etc.

Ben Brocka

@IanPugsley IMO Gaming is better suited to answer those questions than Super User

Ian Pugsley

controlling Netflix through voice commands

GnomeSlice

I think any questions asking about a gaming console, in mostly any context should be okay here, since there's really nowhere else to ask about them, and their primary functions are for gaming.

murgatroid99

@IanPugsley It's primary use is with a game console

Ben Brocka

Mar 22, 2012 14:05

Kinect is definitely a gaming accessory

Ian Pugsley

@BenBrocka I agree

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 @IanPugsley This.

Ben Brocka

Regardless of primary use, a dirty knicet sensor would hinder gaming so it's a gaming problem

Ian Pugsley

the point is, at it's core, these are questions whose problem is not directly related to playing a game, but whose context and required expertise to answer is related to gaming

I think we should alow these types of questions

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley I never said I am against things not related to playing a game.

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:07

@IanPugsley I agree.

murgatroid99

@BenBrocka But then @StrixVaria's fan belt question would be on topic

David B

I think all netflix questions are off-topic, even if they are on gaming consoles.

Ben Brocka

which is the fan belt question?

Ian Pugsley

@OrigamiRobot explain your logic as to why the Netflix question is off-topic, then?

GnomeSlice

@DavidB I think that if the question specifically deals with the console aspect of it, it's on-topic.

If it's just a question about netflix, then no, it's off-topic.

But if it's "How do I use Netflix on my PS3/Xbox", I think it's okay.

murgatroid99

Mar 22, 2012 14:09

29 mins ago, by StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice So is changing my fan belt. I can't get home if my fan belt breaks, which would negatively impact my gaming time and which games I could play.

Ian Pugsley

or something like this:

1

Q: Why is only the Zune app available on the Swedish Xbox 360 App Marketplace?

I installed the December 6th 2011 Xbox Dashboard update a few days ago. I wanted to install the YouTube App but when entering the App Marketplace I only get the Zune app listed. What's wrong? Is it suppose to be like that, with only one app available? I live in Sweden and I do NOT have a GOLD ...

xbox-360 xbox-dashboard

David B

@GnomeSlice my opinion, based on - there is no way to play a game via netflix.

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley I am not saying things have to be related to playing a game to be on-topic.

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice I agree with this because there could be important differences in the game console version of the Netflix app

David B

I can see the other viewpoint as well (on netflix) and am not trying to persuade

murgatroid99

Mar 22, 2012 14:11

@BenBrocka I agree that console specific apps should be on topic; I just don't think the criteria should be "anything that affects gaming"

Ben Brocka

@murgatroid99 That's the opposite of the current problem. Gamers are more likely than most other sites to know the answer to console-specific apps

David B

@murgatroid99 it's not a question about hardware, netflix isn't hardware.

murgatroid99

@DavidB But it's about the version of the app specific to gaming hardware

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 If the 360 had an app for turning on a coffee pot via USB, should I be able to ask about it here?

GnomeSlice

@murgatroid99 Exactly, which is why I think a question would be on-topic provided it had something to do with the console.

Ian Pugsley

Mar 22, 2012 14:14

@OrigamiRobot understood; with that in mind, what makes the Netflix question (or half of the steam questions) off-topic?

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot Yes.

murgatroid99

@OrigamiRobot I think you should if the app has properties unique to the Xbox version and you are asking about those properties

Wipqozn

"How can I use my PS3 controller to control my garage door?"

That's a question about gaming hardware, but is clearly off-topic.

Just because the question involves gaming hardware doesn't make it on-topic.

murgatroid99

@Wipqozn I don't agree. The FAQ seems to say otherwise

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 Lets say it's the only version.

murgatroid99

Mar 22, 2012 14:17

@OrigamiRobot Then all of it's properties are unique to the Xbox version

Wipqozn

> Game-specific hardware and utilities

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 But it has nothing to do with gaming.

Wipqozn

So it does, but I think the FAQ is poorly worded in this case.

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley Netflix has nothing to do with gaming.

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn I don't agree.

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:18

@Wipqozn Most of the FAQ was written without much regard to specific cases.

We just threw something together that seemed pretty good.

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot Nope, but if the question is specific to the gaming console netflix app, I say this is on-topic.

Wipqozn

@murgatroid99 @GnomeSlice: Do you think my garage door example is on-topic?

StrixVaria

Now that a ton of bad questions are coming up that the FAQ says are okey dokey, we're having issues, even though the FAQ wasn't well-thought-out to begin with.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria Then post about getting it revised on Meta.

As it stands, the FAQ can't just be ignored.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice That's one of the smartest things you've said.

murgatroid99

Mar 22, 2012 14:19

@Wipqozn I actually think it could be

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice And my coffee pot question?

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Not saying it should, but I am saying that we shouldn't blindly follow it either if there is evidence that it's not the best rule.

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn I thought we didn't support questions about modding.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice But it's about gaming hardware.

fredley

I think I might finally make it to 100 consecutive days

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:19

@OrigamiRobot Yes, if there's a specific app from the indie store or something, you should ask about it here, as silly as that sounds.

Wipqozn

> Game and Mod Development

fredley

My previous two attempts have been foiled by international travel, but I've got a chance of making it this time

Wipqozn

that relates to modding games, not modding gaming hardware.

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice Replace 360 with PC. Still on-topic?

StrixVaria

@fredley visited 592 days, 389 consecutive

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:20

@Wipqozn Right. If you were trying to jigger your console to control your garage door, no. If there was an app for it, that anyone in the public with a console can access, then yes.

StrixVaria

I'm actually 2/3 of the way to Fanatic on meta...

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot See, that's where it gets blurry.

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice Why?

murgatroid99

@OrigamiRobot PC is not game-specific hardware

GnomeSlice

The primary function of a PC is not for gaming.

I see your point.

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:21

@GnomeSlice Xbox has plenty of non-gaming functions recently.

We shouldn't support those.

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 Neither are gaming consoles anymore.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria I just don't see why that would hurt the site.

fredley

@StrixVaria Wow...

murgatroid99

@OrigamiRobot Consoles are still made for video games

GnomeSlice

I'm of the opinion that if someone has a problem with a non-gaming app on their gaming console, we're still going to be the ones to know how to deal with it correctly.

fredley

Mar 22, 2012 14:22

@StrixVaria I've made several runs of over 80, but always missed a day right at the end

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 "Gaming consoles" are becoming "entertainment consoles"

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice Your second point is "app rec" and is off-topic.

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice Why does liking video games mean someone is an expert with a coffee pot app?

murgatroid99

@OrigamiRobot I still use my Xbox mostly for video games

Wipqozn

The key difference is if the problems relates to Gaming. Netflix does not relate to gaming.

OrigamiRobot

Mar 22, 2012 14:23

@murgatroid99 What if I use my PC mostly for video games?

murgatroid99

@OrigamiRobot Gamers are the ones who would own and operate game-specific hardware

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn What if I am having an issue with the netflix native application on my xbox 360?

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 Consoles are no longer game-specific hardware.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice Then I think that's a little more blurry, and my initial thought would be to lean towards saying it's on-topic.

GnomeSlice

Are you saying that people on this site would not be some of the best to help out?

murgatroid99

Mar 22, 2012 14:24

@OrigamiRobot I disagree

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn Exactly what I'm saying. Provided it has a solid foundation in the console itself, I think these are on-topic.

Wipqozn

What question are we talking about anyways?

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn We're not, anymore.

15 mins ago, by Ian Pugsley

1

Q: Why is only the Zune app available on the Swedish Xbox 360 App Marketplace?

I installed the December 6th 2011 Xbox Dashboard update a few days ago. I wanted to install the YouTube App but when entering the App Marketplace I only get the Zune app listed. What's wrong? Is it suppose to be like that, with only one app available? I live in Sweden and I do NOT have a GOLD ...

xbox-360 xbox-dashboard

But here's a good example.

OrigamiRobot

@murgatroid99 What makes them game-specific?

GnomeSlice

I think the question that originally sparked this discussion was this:

6

Q: Message from my university IT people explaining why Starcraft II wont work on campus, does this sound plausible?

Is changing how the game is hosted even an option ? I haven't seen anything related to this on the SC forums. Right now any multiplayer game I joins lags out and I get dropped right away..but the games do at connect at least, they are just unusably laggy. Thanks! Chandler, The cause of ...

starcraft-2 lag

Grace Note

Mar 22, 2012 14:26

Their primary consumers are those interested in gaming, and their major library is still games.

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot They're 'gaming consoles'.

murgatroid99

@OrigamiRobot They're game consoles. Most of the software for them is video games

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice Names mean nothing.

GnomeSlice

A PC for example, has a huge library of software that isn't related to gaming whatsoever.

Gaming consoles can browse the internet, sure, watch movies, sure, but anything you buy on a disc for them is still going to be a game.

Grace Note

Could you buy 7 PS3s to use their combined power to create some sort of supercomputer array? Yes, this has even been done before. But this kind of purchase remains a secondary market.

OrigamiRobot

Mar 22, 2012 14:27

@murgatroid99 Coincidental.

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote Argh, why are you always so well-spoken.

That's what I've been trying to say. For like, ten minutes.

murgatroid99

@OrigamiRobot They are designed to play video games and they mostly play video games. How is that a coincidence?

OrigamiRobot

@GraceNote I am not saying their primary/intended function is not games. I am saying that does not mean gaming-specific.

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot It's not game-specific, no, since you CAN do other things with them.

Ian Pugsley

@OrigamiRobot is there such a thing as gaming-specific, then?

OrigamiRobot

Mar 22, 2012 14:28

@GnomeSlice That's my only point.

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice I wouldn't recommend asking gamers about setting up supercomputers with PS3s, though.

David B

so, if microsoft makes a version of visual studio that runs on xbox360, can I ask c# questions on gaming.se?

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot But I still maintain that we, as a community of gamers, would be the best suited to help with most questions regarding the consoles.

Ian Pugsley

I can use my DS as a hammer, so it isn't gaming-specific hardware?

2

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote No, I agree.

Wipqozn

Mar 22, 2012 14:29

@murgatroid99 Just because it's gaming system doesn't mean every question/problem involving it relates to gaming. I once again point to my PS3 controller to open a garage door example.

murgatroid99

@DavidB No, I would say that the only questions you could ask about it would be things that are specific to the Xbox version of the application

GnomeSlice

1 min ago, by GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot But I still maintain that we, as a community of gamers, would be the best suited to help with most questions regarding the consoles.

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley Ok pretend I was referring to manufacturer supported uses the entire time.

StrixVaria

How about this: If we can remove all gaming aspects from a question, and the question is still a question, then it's off topic.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice We're also the best people suited to help with ITG, but that doesn't mean we allow it.

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:30

Asking about using your DS like a hammer is off topic because you could do that with an actual hammer.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria I don't think that would work as well as you're thinking it would.

StrixVaria

Asking about using your DS to play games is on topic because you can't remove games from that question.

Wipqozn

There is more to deciding if something is on-topic then "Are we the best community to handle this?"

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria So nothing about consoles that doesn't also ask about a game?

Lazers

1

Q: Is a Melee spec character viable in Silver/Gold difficulty?

I usually play Human Vanguard in multiplayer, and Bronze difficulty is a breeze. Silver I can win with some difficulty, but Gold seems especially difficult as a melee-spec character. I'm specced out for pure Melee damage and I usually carry a shotgun with + Melee damage so I can kill "weak" targ...

mass-effect-3 multiplayer

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:31

@murgatroid99 It doesn't have to be about a specific game, but it should have to be about gaming.

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn I don't see why there should be. If we can be an authority on it, how does that hurt the site?

StrixVaria

Not about using apps to watch movies.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice Like I said a few messages above, identify-this-game.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria What about a question about an xbox that keeps crashing?

@Wipqozn You can't really be an 'authority' on that.

Wipqozn

The simple fact that there is one counter example is enough to show that "We are the best community to handle this" is not a strong enough argument to stand on it's own. You need more.

David B

Mar 22, 2012 14:32

@GnomeSlice we aren't tech support

GnomeSlice

ITG isn't really a good example to compare to anything.

@DavidB No, we're not. It was a bad example. But you get my point.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Technical support questions are bad for all their own reasons. Maybe get a better counterexample.

GnomeSlice

What about a question about how to change my xbox gamertag, then.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice It's a perfect example in this case.

2 mins ago, by GnomeSlice

1 min ago, by GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot But I still maintain that we, as a community of gamers, would be the best suited to help with most questions regarding the consoles.

That applies to ITG as well.

As a community of gamers, we are best suited to handling ITG.

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn ITG was shot down for numerous other reasons as well.

Wipqozn

Mar 22, 2012 14:33

@GnomeSlice You're missing my point.

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn I think that's mutual.

murgatroid99

What about a question about the social side of Steam?

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Still technical support.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria No it isn't.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Yes it is.

Wipqozn

Mar 22, 2012 14:33

The simple fact that ITG was banned, means that "We're the best community for these questions" is not enough of an argument ot stand on it's own. Which is what I'm trying to say.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria It's not, and regardless, why is that a bad question for the site?

murgatroid99

4

Q: Change alias / nickname / callsign for Steam friends

Some of my friends on Steam change nicknames so often I can hardly remember who's who. Is there any way I can set custom nicknames for friends in Steam? Best workaround I've got so far is using tags, but that's not what I'd like to do.

steam chat

Grace Note

...please tell me we're not motioning to kill off technical support

murgatroid99

3

Q: How do I add start menu items to a Steam game after the installation?

I've noticed that Steam gives me the option of creating a desktop shortcut and start menu items at the end of an installation. I always say no thanks to both because I like starting my games from Steam. But recently I've grown fond of just pressing the windows key and writing the name of the appl...

steam

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice It's not a bad question for the site, but if it happens to get banned as a result of a rule that bans lots of other bad questions, that's an okay sacrifice to make.

Ian Pugsley

Mar 22, 2012 14:34

15

Q: What is Steam rating and what does it do?

I just noticed that apparently Steam has a rating and mine is 0.6: 0.6 what? Is that good? Bad? Should I be forever embarrassed for having posted a screenshot?

steam

StrixVaria

@GraceNote We should definitely kill off technical support questions.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria And what rule would that be?

@StrixVaria Why?

StrixVaria

4 mins ago, by StrixVaria

How about this: If we can remove all gaming aspects from a question, and the question is still a question, then it's off topic.

murgatroid99

2

Q: How do I see what I am currently subscribed to?

In the Steam workshop, how do I see the list of items that I'm currently subscribed to?

steam

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice They are the same as ITG in many, many ways.

user15026

Mar 22, 2012 14:35

@StrixVaria They're generally difficult to solve, if they ever get solved at all - there are too many variations and generally not enough information given

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria But I see a flaw with this as it relates to this discussion.

Removing all aspects of gaming would involve removing the gaming console itself.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice No it wouldn't. You can use a console for other stuff.

Like watching movies.

Calling it a "gaming" console is misleading.

GnomeSlice

And if the question is about that console... I just don't see any reason why that shouldn't be on-topic.

@StrixVaria Primary function. That goes back to @IanPugsley's thing about the hammer.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice If it's not about gaming, why is it on the gaming stack exchange?

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria should all of the Steam questions I posted be closed?

Wipqozn

Mar 22, 2012 14:37

@GnomeSlice I once again point towards my garage door example.

StrixVaria

6 mins ago, by StrixVaria

Asking about using your DS like a hammer is off topic because you could do that with an actual hammer.

GnomeSlice

@murgatroid99 I say no.

StrixVaria

6 mins ago, by StrixVaria

Asking about using your DS to play games is on topic because you can't remove games from that question.

murgatroid99

10

Q: Is it possible to view another user's purchases on Steam?

If so, how do I view another user's purchases on Steam?

steam

Wipqozn

Just because somethings primary function is for gaming doesn't mean all questions involving it are magically on-topic.

Ian Pugsley

Mar 22, 2012 14:37

@StrixVaria just because it isn't about the act of playing a game doesn't mean it isn't related to gaming

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria So, asking about using your gaming console is off topic because you could do that with an actual ______?

murgatroid99

3

Q: Can I stop the Steam client from crashing each time I shut down my Mac?

I have the Steam client installed on my Macbook Pro, and each and every time I shut my Mac down without first quitting the Steam client, the client crashes. While the end result is the same (the client terminates), crashing is a much less elegant affair, and I suppose it could also be potentiall...

steam osx

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice I'm done arguing with you because you are incapable of understanding what I'm saying.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria Thanks...

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria Every question I linked to is an upvoted open question that is not directly related to playing games. Should they be closed?

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:38

@murgatroid99 Yes.

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria Then where is the line?

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria I disagree.

StrixVaria

9 mins ago, by StrixVaria

How about this: If we can remove all gaming aspects from a question, and the question is still a question, then it's off topic.

Wait

GnomeSlice

I think what he's suggesting is that any question about some aspect of something in a game is on-topic, and that everything else should not be.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice That works.

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:40

@StrixVaria So yes, I am capable of understanding what you're saying. But I just don't agree.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice I disagree with this.

GnomeSlice

I think that limits the scope of the site much farther than it should.

fbueckert

@StrixVaria I think that's a bit too black and white, Strix.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Your method of disagreeing was by saying the same things over and over.

Wipqozn

I think questions about gaming hardware can be on-topic, so long as the the purpose of the question will relate to gaming.

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:40

Which is what frustrated me.

GnomeSlice

50 secs ago, by StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice That works.

StrixVaria

@fbueckert I think black and white is exactly what we need.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria I'm not very well-spoken, but I'm doing the best I can.

David B

don't draw lines, draw freehand circles

Wipqozn

> Game-specific hardware and utilities

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:41

Hardware questions can be on topic.

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn So... games. Game discs. Game disc-cases.

StrixVaria

I don't want to exclude all non-exactly-related-to-a-specific-game questions.

tiddy

Before I comment I want to be sure Ive captured your argument

fbueckert

@StrixVaria Ok, so if Steam and Desura questions are off limits here, then WHERE do they get asked? programs.stackexchange.com?

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria The rule stated by gnome, that you agreed to, seems to say exactly that.

tiddy

Mar 22, 2012 14:42

Netflix isn't working on my PS3 = NO, but replacing my PS3 harddrive for more space for games = yes

StrixVaria

@Wipqozn I know, but it's not exactly what I want.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Just because there is no where else to ask them does not mean they should be asked here.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert This argument doesn't actually make sense, just because there's no other SE site for it doesn't mean 'the closest one will do'.

StrixVaria

I'm trying to think of how to word what I want.

Because "I'll know it when I see it" is stupid.

@fbueckert That's not for us to figure out.

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria ah, okay.

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:42

@StrixVaria Hah. I was going to say something along those lines too. But I didn't because it was stupid.

StrixVaria

Just because we don't do X doesn't mean we have to provide an alternative.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria I must be forgetting part of this discussion, can you provide an example for X, and an alternative?

Sorry.

StrixVaria

I think this is about as best as I can say it:

13 mins ago, by StrixVaria

How about this: If we can remove all gaming aspects from a question, and the question is still a question, then it's off topic.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice It's related to the argument raised by @fbueckert

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria Again, that would involve removing the console from the question, I feel.

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:44

For example, asking a question about how to set command line arguments for launching a game from Steam is on topic.

tiddy

Strix you're on a slippery slope

GnomeSlice

@tiddy That first point is iffy.

StrixVaria

Asking a question about how to send a message to a friend in Steam is off topic.

tiddy

Now you need to define gaming aspects

GnomeSlice

Depends on the question. I think questions about Netflix on a PS3 CAN be on-topic jsut as easily as they can be off-topic.

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:45

Netflix can never be on topic.

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria I think that question should be on topic because it is about a gaming platform

tiddy

I feel the community will be able to properly filter questions without a rule in place

Wipqozn

@murgatroid99 What if the question was about watching netflix on your PC?

StrixVaria

@murgatroid99 If this is true, then any conceivable question about PCs is on topic.

murgatroid99

@Wipqozn off topic because it is asking a question about a non-gaming app on a platform that is not primarily for gaming

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:46

@Wipqozn I say off-topic, but this whole thing is where it gets blurry.

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria Yeah, that's exactly the point I was planning to make.

@murgatroid99 What about if the question as for a PSP Vita?

Sony has been marketing PSPs fairly hard as being "an all-purpose" system.

You can use it for music, movies, gaming...

GnomeSlice

I understand where some people are coming from with their black-and-white approach to categorization, but I don't think that's really viable. Like it or not, modern gaming platforms can do so much more than just gaming, and I think that if we try to cut out questions about this stuff, we're just going to be hurting the site, because that's the way the technology is going.

Wipqozn

In other words, how do you define primary purpose?

murgatroid99

@Wipqozn OK then I guess we need to take a step back and decide what counts as "game-specific hardware". Given our discussion, I'm not sure what the answer is

Grace Note

@Wipqozn Usually by the consumer market.

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:48

@GnomeSlice We are called gaming.

murgatroid99

Or even what "game-specific hardware" means

StrixVaria

We will address the gaming portions of those devices.

Wipqozn

@GraceNote I don't think the way something is perceived by the general public should factor into the decision of whether or not we allow it on the site.

Grace Note

That said, I think there is a line to draw between allowing all questions about consoles/handhelds, but I don't think that it's at where is being proposed.

tiddy

I didn't realize we were getting a lot of hardware questions

Ian Pugsley

Mar 22, 2012 14:49

(playing devil's advocate now) this is really tough to make a rule about, though - when it really comes down to it, what's the difference between a tablet and PSP Vita?

StrixVaria

@tiddy We don't have to get a lot of something for it to be a problem.

Grace Note

@IanPugsley This is actually what I was just thinking about

Ian Pugsley

Would questions about Netflix on a tablet or an Android phone be off-topic, but questions about them on a 360 be on-topic? Why?

Wipqozn

It looks to me like we need a meta discussion on this topic.

tiddy

I dont know about that

murgatroid99

Mar 22, 2012 14:50

@tiddy It's not just hardware. @Strix's version of the rule would get rid of a lot of Steam questions (such as the 5 or so that I linked to)

StrixVaria

15

Q: What is the dividing line between gamer problems that we do and do not cater to?

I've got a monster draft of an answer to this question about the Steam security question. It's seriously huge. But there's one thing about it that's missing, and it's ultimately part of the goal that Strix is seeking. As has been stated here and there on Meta, it is key to distinguish that this ...

discussion allowed-questions

1

Q: Is this question about general internet security on topic?

Some people seem to think that since this question is about the security of Steam vs. non-gaming software, it's on topic. But the question is asking a general security question, as Arda Xi put in the comments: "This is really just a question asking for the advantages of two-factor authentication...

discussion allowed-questions

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria But the devices are by definition, for gaming.

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria and there it is.

Ian Pugsley

@Wipqozn whoa now - I think what we're talking about right now is far too broad to bring up anything on the meta

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Get off that. They aren't any more.

Wipqozn

Mar 22, 2012 14:51

@IanPugsley The simple fact that we're in such a debate means it should, eventually, be brought up on meta.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria This is where the difference of opinion seems to be.

StrixVaria

@Wipqozn It's old, though. We could do with a new one.

Wipqozn

We don't use chat to determine major decisions. We can use chat to refine them before presenting them on meta. Thedecision must ultimately be made on meta.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice I don't know what opinion there is to be had. They do so much more than gaming that they're not gaming-specific any more.

Ian Pugsley

@Wipqozn What I'm saying is what is being brought up?

GnomeSlice

Mar 22, 2012 14:52

@StrixVaria Just because my cell phone can go on the internet doesn't mean it isn't a phone anymore.

StrixVaria

I could opine that 1 + 1 = 3 but I'm still wrong.

tiddy

So I guess the problem is this: We're a huge collective of gamers who arguably would be the best group of people to ask about the gaming consoles and services we use daily. But we should focus on the software - games - because currently that is the focus of the site

Wipqozn

@IanPugsley Where we draw the line for whether or not we allow questions involving gaming hardware.

Grace Note

@Wipqozn We're not capable of making a major decision right now

GnomeSlice

@tiddy Says who?

murgatroid99

Mar 22, 2012 14:52

@StrixVaria I like @badp's answer to that question

Ian Pugsley

Are you suggesting we ban console-specific questions unrelated to gaming? Questions that are about utilities related to gaming but not about gaming?

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Just because my blu-ray player can play PS3 games doesn't mean it's a gaming console.

tiddy

That's how I'm reading the argument

StrixVaria

@murgatroid99 His answer is horrendous.

Ian Pugsley

@Wipqozn okay - we've covered a few different topics today

StrixVaria

Mar 22, 2012 14:52

It fails to address the main issue.

Wipqozn

I didn't mean to imply we need a meta right now, but that we obviously will need to make a meta some point in the near future.

badp

@tiddy Says who? Console hardware and services are on topic for Gaming

Grace Note

@Wipqozn It's so near in the future we did it 3 times in the past

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria I think it's right

tiddy

I wasn't saying that personally, I was stating what the argument was

badp

Mar 22, 2012 14:53

ah

Wipqozn

@GraceNote Pardon?

tiddy

I personally feel we are one of the best resources for those questions and we shouldn't ignore them

GnomeSlice

I'm not convinced the 'community driven' nature of SE is really working for the gaming site.

All we're ever doing is arguing about site policy.

tiddy

If categorization is the only problem, that can be fixed

Grace Note

@Wipqozn I'm just equating that if closeness is designated as a measure of how low the distance is, then a negative distance would be pretty close.

Wipqozn

Mar 22, 2012 14:55

@GnomeSlice Which is exactly how community drivenis supposed to work.

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice We made a clear decision about ITG

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn Yes, except you're supposed to eventually come to an agreement.

Ian Pugsley

@GnomeSlice the site's traffic begs to differ

GnomeSlice

Is there any way we can see traffic for questions about gaming hardware?

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice I don't think any of the sites has major consensus. We're just loud enough that it seems that we're the major problem child.

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