[tag:language-trolling]

Conversation started Mar 21, 2023 at 9:44.

mousetail

Mar 21, 2023 09:44

Random dumb idea for my practlang, what if in addition to ++ and -- you could do ** to multiply by 2 in place, // to divide by 2, and %% to mod 2

Adám

Makes sense.

lyxal

@mousetail go further and make it so that all operators can do this

Adám

What other operators are there?

mousetail

I guess bitwise ones but && and || already have another meaning

Adám

oof

mousetail

Mar 21, 2023 09:49

Suppose they didn't though, what should the default right value be?

Adám

Bi-glyphs should be limited to the minimum

mousetail

Also << and >> I guess, could be <<<< and >>>>

lyxal

@mousetail depends on the operator.

mousetail

For &&?

Adám

@mousetail Yes, and in general, such implicit arguments are just more to remember.

lyxal

Mar 21, 2023 09:50

@mousetail Well what does & do

mousetail

bitwise and

Adám

Just support var+=1 etc. for all operators and get rid of the strange 1-arg syntax

mousetail

That would be the sane option though

Adám

> practlang

Practical languages should be sane, imho.

mousetail

I'll probably not implement these things but theoretically how would they be used

lyxal

Mar 21, 2023 09:51

@mousetail something that makes a number like 16 or 8 bits at most

@Adám my suggestion to make it for everything was mostly in jest anyway

mousetail

I might make a fork of my practlang with lots of dumb useless stuff

esolang variation

Adám

APL doesn't have the var++ and ++var but all operators, even user-defined ones, can be used in the var f= arg syntax.

lyxal

More languages should support that

It's really cool

Vyxal 3 has arg f#>var for it

mousetail

Actually practically I might implement ???? that, for a type that implements default, assigns the default to a nullish value

Adám

Slightly hard to read, imo.

Should use ⁇ instead of ??

lyxal

Mar 21, 2023 09:57

@mousetail could I have an example? I'm not quite getting this

Adám

If myvar is a declared but unassigned boolean, myvar???? is equivalent to myvar=false

lyxal

Oh that's cool

Why not just do it at variable creation though?

Adám

If myvar is num, then it becomes 0, if string, it becomes ""

@lyxal Maybe you're getting it from some external source.

mousetail

Something I recently did in PHP, $arr??=[] except then you could write it shorter since arrays have a default value

Adám

But I don't see how this can work if everything isn't strongly typed.

lyxal

Mar 21, 2023 10:01

But the default is already defined for the type

mousetail

@Adám It is strongly typed

lyxal

So not assigning a value should set the default at creation

mousetail

This would redeclare a Option<T> as a T

Adám

@mousetail Can you import JSON?

mousetail

There will probably be a standard library module for JSON yes

Adám

Mar 21, 2023 10:03

But how do you infer types?

lyxal

@mousetail then use the default when getting the value

No need for an operator

Adám

E.g. what is the type of myvar = {foo:"bar"}.baz ?

mousetail

A enum of all all possible JSON types, like rust

Though normally you'd load JSON into a predefined structure

Adám

But what does myvar???? do?

mousetail

myvar in your example is not a Option<> so you couldn't use it

Adám

Mar 21, 2023 10:05

Will you have both var++ and ++var?

lyxal

@mousetail So then how about myvar = Some({pretend this is json I'm on mobile}.baz)

mousetail

@lyxal If the JSON enum defines a default value, that. So probably Some(JsonValue::null)

lyxal

fair enough

Adám

a????????b should be valid syntax, right?

mousetail

@Adám Yes

So you could do this:

if (value ????) {
    log_warning("value was null, corrected");
}

lyxal

Mar 21, 2023 10:09

@Adám what would the b do?

mousetail

@Adám It would fail the type checker since a???? is not nullable anymore, and ?? requires a nullable type

Adám

Oh.

lyxal

@mousetail but what if it was a double nested option?

mousetail

Hmmm true

lyxal

Not that you'd probably see something like that in a sane production system

But still

mousetail

Mar 21, 2023 10:11

Imagine a???????????? when unwrapping a tripple nested Option

lyxal

It would greatly reflect the questions the programmer has as to why there's a triple nested option

Adám

Add (?n) syntactic sugar so (?6) means ??????

mousetail

That would further encourage terrible practices, I love it

lyxal

@Adám Go all the way and make that work for every operator and syntax

Adám

Yesss!!! I mean Ye(s3)(!3)

mousetail

Mar 21, 2023 10:14

Then you could just remove normal addition, just do a(++b)

lyxal

(n(o)100)100) - the screams of programmers seeing this syntax

Totally worth it btw

Conversation ended Mar 21, 2023 at 10:16.

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