datum?

hyper-neutrino

Nov 5, 2021 18:48

is the singular not datum

Redwolf Programmed

It was, yeah

pxeger

it used to be

thejonymyster

besides buffalo for lore reasons

pxeger

but thanks to the social construct that is language...

I mean, it still is, but "data" is also now an uncountable

thejonymyster

wait how can you use data as a singular anyway

pxeger

Nov 5, 2021 18:49

so it is a singular, and it doesn't have a plural

thejonymyster

what even is "a data"

Redwolf Programmed

What's a datum either?

pxeger

@RedwolfProgrammed a data point, or a piece of data

thejonymyster

it works the same as the word "information"

Redwolf Programmed

^

pxeger

Nov 5, 2021 18:50

@thejonymyster it's uncountable, so you can't use it with "a", but you'd still say "this data is" (grammatically singular) instead of "these data are" (which is the old / "technically correct" version)

Redwolf Programmed

Uncountable is so much better

thejonymyster

why on earth would ever say these data are? these information are

Redwolf Programmed

@pxeger No such thing as "technically correct" in english

pxeger

@RedwolfProgrammed "uncountable" isn't even a noun, let alone an uncountable noun, so you can't say "uncountable is" :Þ

Redwolf Programmed

What's technically correct is what people understand

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 18:51

@pxeger [having it be] uncountable is...

pxeger

@RedwolfProgrammed I'm aware, I should have said "technically correct" rather than technically correct

@thejonymyster joke

thejonymyster

nod

but yea no nobody should be debating how to use the word data because theres only one sane way

Neil

@RedwolfProgrammed no, it has a singular

Redwolf Programmed

It had one :p

If you still use "data" as plural though, you've lived in a cave for the last few decades

Neil

@RedwolfProgrammed I'm going to need more data to substantiate your claim

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 18:54

wahts the singular form for "information"

pxeger

@RedwolfProgrammed it still does, because, as this datum shows, some people still use it that way

@thejonymyster "information" is singular

thejonymyster

whats the plural form for information

pxeger

there isn't one

because "information" is uncountable

Redwolf Programmed

This is a pretty pointless argument though

Mayube

data is the plural form of datum

@RedwolfProgrammed or you work in academia

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 18:54

what is one datum genuinely because i thought data was like, by definition uncountable

Redwolf Programmed

Same

pxeger

5 mins ago, by pxeger

@RedwolfProgrammed a data point, or a piece of data

thejonymyster

oh, thats fine

a datum of data

Mayube

a datum is one piece of information or numerical result

data is the plural of datum

thejonymyster

now in my head its not a weird debate about plurals, its just "theres this funny word that means a single point of data"

Redwolf Programmed

Nov 5, 2021 18:56

lol

pxeger

thejonymyster

data is still uncountable, datum is just its own thing (to me at least)

pxeger

I'm sorry cartograpghers and engineers, but what the fuck?

Mayube

so 3 is a datum. [2, 3, 6] is an array of three data

thejonymyster

@Mayube that would be incorrect :D

thats three datums ^_^ hope this helps

Mayube

Nov 5, 2021 18:57

datums is not a word

thejonymyster

@pxeger yes it is :P

Mayube

data is the correct plural form of datum

Redwolf Programmed

"correct"

pxeger

@Mayube "datums" is a word, because cartographers and engineers use it as a word

language is a social construct

thejonymyster

@Mayube but thats just begging the question

Mayube

Nov 5, 2021 18:58

@thejonymyster in the context of cartography and engineering specifically, sure

thejonymyster

@Mayube right sorry that one was a joke, but i think if were going to have the word "datum" it cant be part of the same word as "data" anymore, "data" has moved on and become a strong independent uncountable

hyper-neutrino

@Mayube it's still a word, just maybe not the correct one to use in other contexts

Mayube

@thejonymyster it's not fighting a losing battle against change, because nothing's changing. data is the plural of datum. data is also an uncountable noun. Words can have multiple usages depending on context

hyper-neutrino

so is xnopyt

Redwolf Programmed

The only correct usage of "data" as a plural is to refer to the character from star trek

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 19:00

@Mayube but thats so bad

Redwolf Programmed

(Don't star that it's an overused xkcd)

thejonymyster

@RedwolfProgrammed star of shame

Mayube

@RedwolfProgrammed But there's only one Data. Datalore is not Data

@thejonymyster Why?

thejonymyster

because its one word for two closely related things in the same context

which leads to unnecessary confusion

like monads

Mayube

welcome to the english language

Redwolf Programmed

Nov 5, 2021 19:01

@Mayube Personally I dislike "data" as a plural because it's inconsistent with "information", and I find the concept of a single datum kind of pointless

But this argument's still pointless :p

thejonymyster

>datum
>pointless

Mayube

@RedwolfProgrammed because you don't work in statistical acadamia

Redwolf Programmed

Yep

It's fine for a word to mean different things to different people, the worse english is the more I like it :p

thejonymyster

well as long as it makes for interesting word puzzles i guess

Mayube

English is actually just an esolang experiment to make an esolang so inconsistent that the only way to build a parser for it is to evolve life

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 19:04

every day we plow through syntax errors

wait lol programming language descriptivism

hyper-neutrino

oh no

Mayube

syntax error*
`error` is the plural of `errum`

thejonymyster

the "correct" syntax is whatever the programmer uses

hyper-neutrino

for those of you who are annoyed by how many chat flags math.se chat generates

you'll love to hear that math.se is starting an election in 3 days

Mayube

@thejonymyster isn't that just JavaScript?

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 19:05

personally i think every plural should be the singular form with an "s" at the end

dogs, cats, fishs, datums, etc

hyper-neutrino

personally I think we should just not have singular/plural forms, like mandarin does

Mayube

@thejonymyster Can you think of a plural noun that becomes a singular noun when you add an s?

there might be multiple in english, but I know of 1

thejonymyster

i cant, is there one? :O!

Mayube

princes

hyper-neutrino

lol

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 19:07

ohhh hehe

Mayube

plural of prince, add an s it becomes princess

thejonymyster

~~new rule: no words can end with s other than plurals~~

Mayube

sheesh

that's gunna mess up some words

thejonymyster

mezz*

Mayube

the sheer mass of that change would cause quite a lot of stress

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 19:09

who could guess

but i digress

Mayube

also what about continuous verbs?

walks eats becomes writes codes

thejonymyster

i tried to read that as a single sentence haha

Mayube

hahaha

new rule: code is a single lexicographic token, codes is a complete program

we don't write code we write codes

thejonymyster

codum and coda

Mayube

codums

but only in cartography and engineering

low-effort call backs are one of my favourite forms of comedy, up there with non-sequiturs and post-irony

and of course puns

thejonymyster

Nov 5, 2021 19:14

i like it when the low effort call backs keep accumulating together like a big dumb joke katamari

The Nineteenth Byte

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