Project Update Thursday - 28 June 2012 – Conversation in Home Improvement

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 18:58

Welcome to Project Update Thursday

Aarthi

SUP PEOPLE

BMitch

not much, drinking a bud, watchin the game, wassup wit you?

Aarthi

niiiice

i'm trying to wrap up some stuff

BMitch

bubble wrapping the coworker's desk again?

Aarthi

rofl

actually no

just trying to finish off a few things

i should ask something on DIY, too

before I forget

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 19:09

nice. While you're trying not to forget, does anyone else mentally read @Aarthi as Atari?

Aarthi

probably?

not afaik.

i get Arthur more often, tbh.

BMitch

:)

Aarthi

which, in and of itself, has its pluses and minuses

BMitch

I keep seeing Atari Deviant, which makes you a bad gamer, lol

Aarthi

rofl

i can accept this

hi there @djmadscribbler!

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 19:18

Feel free to jump right in @djmadscribbler, we're just passing the chat with some idle banter until someone feels like talking about DIY stuff

Did I mention last time that I got rid of my old 32" tube tv? It went to a good cause and not to a landfill.

Aarthi

yay! where did it go?

Aaron

hmm, what was I going to take a picture of?

oh the panel

BMitch

My brother's assistant, apparently she had a B&W tv without a power switch

so this was an upgrade

ok, my only DIY'ing this week was to kill some weeds and put down some new termite bait stakes

Aarthi

those are important!

Tester101

@BMitch Weed killing! that belongs on Gardening

Aarthi

Jun 28, 2012 19:24

i finished the small upgrades to my place. the door looks amazing. And all that's left is a huge amount of dishes

BMitch

You can call me Chemical B

Aarthi

@BMitch :D

wax eagle

did someone say Gardening and Landscaping?

Aarthi

@Tester101 good job, you summoned a GL mod

lkslakjdsl IDEA

IDEAAAA

Hey @waxeagle the GL contest thing

wax eagle

@Aarthi yes, I'll try to get ahold of yoda this evening

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 19:27

@Aarthi Doing the dishes, that belongs in parenting.stackexchange.com :)

Tester101

@Aarthi When are we going to have a contest </whining>

Aarthi

@waxeagle make sure you submit to the community promotions thing, here

@Tester101 SOON!

Aaron

Aarthi

And i mean it this time.

Tester101

@Aaron I've seen much worse.

Aaron

Jun 28, 2012 19:28

There are several wire nuts IN the panel

BMitch

I was about to say it looks pretty nice to me

Jay Bazuzi

what's wrong with wire nuts IN the panel? It's just a big junction box.

BMitch

There are a couple of nuts here too

Jay Bazuzi

Better than double-tapping a breaker.

Tester101

@JayBazuzi You mean I can't put a wire on each side of the lug?

Jay Bazuzi

Jun 28, 2012 19:31

@Tester101: that's why the lug is so wide. :-)

My old house had a double-tapped 30A breaker with 14ga wire in it. Because 15A+15A=30A, right?

Tester101

Speaking of panels... The other day I was trying to get my clamp on ammeter on a wire in the panel, there was a snap and a spark, and I almost $hit my pants.

@JayBazuzi Sounds good to me.

BMitch

@Tester101 are you an electrician by trade?

Tester101

Turns out, whoever installed this circuit nicked the wire when stripping it. When I move it, the wire snapped, and scared the crap out of me.

Aarthi

oh hey @JayBazuzi I think this might be the first time we've met in real time? Not sure, but it's always nice to see you around the site. :)

Tester101

@BMitch Nope. by blood.

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 19:36

I think we all need to plan a field trip out to @JayBazuzi's yurt

Tester101

@BMitch Would have been 3rd generation, but I decided I wanted to sit on my lazy butt for a living instead.

BMitch

we can help raise the roof while there

sitting on your butt is underrated, it's a wonderful thing to sit on.

Aarthi

@Tester101 working with electric-powered things rather than electricity itself? :P

@BMitch i concur.

Aaron

trying to wrench out some of this old wire has a tendency to snap the copper too, causing more issues when it snaps at the back of the box

Jay Bazuzi

Hi @Aarthi

@BMitch: Yes, a field trip!

Bring tents, we have no guest rooms.

You can see my many subpanels.

And the pile of sawdust. It was 45 yards once, although a bit smaller now.

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 19:41

@JayBazuzi heck, I'll bring a backpack, got my tent, sleeping bag, stove, and toilet ready to go :)

Jay Bazuzi

One neighbor has a mini-eco-mansion. SIP walls, active solar heat storage both under the floor and in the hillside, PV, etc., etc.

Aarthi

that's amazing.

Jay Bazuzi

Another neighbor lives in an old, short schoolbus.

BMitch

my neighbors live in townhouses, the new neighbors moving in live in townhouses :-/

Tester101

Wasn't there a movie about a guy who lived in a short school bus?

Jay Bazuzi

Jun 28, 2012 19:44

This guy is working on an upgrade. He bought a 40' office trailer.

Aarthi

@Tester101 was it Shortbus ?

Jay Bazuzi

It was cheap because the propane AC units caught fire and burned out one room.

Aarthi

(sorry guys, I gotta peace out. hugs everyone Adios!)

gregmac

we just decided last week it is time to start looking for a new house. so my projects are now things like completing trim, paint touch-ups..

anyone have experience with subdivision builders? the two we looked at here (Caraco and Tamarack) both charge like crazy for some upgrades. Caraco charges $15/sqft for hardwood instead of carpet..

wax eagle

@gregmac fun, we just bought, back in February

Jay Bazuzi

Jun 28, 2012 19:45

@JohnCameronMitchell here?

We want you to make more movies.

gregmac

I've heard incidentally with Tamarack that it is ~$2-3k CHEAPER to have them install their default countertops, and then replace them with granite on your own later. Read some stuff about a guy that did that the day after closing..

BMitch

at that point, you may as well ask for a discount on an unfinished home

gregmac

Seems so ridiculously wasteful..

Jay Bazuzi

We're being rickrolled here in the yurt.

gregmac

Well, they won't close without countertops or finished floors etc. I am assuming they won't just build it to drywall and let you take over from there. :)

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 19:48

Your yurt never wants to give you up? Doesn't want to let you down?

Jay Bazuzi

It was coming out of my kid's speakers, but with no walls, everyone benefits.

wax eagle

@gregmac donate things you take out to a Re-Store and get tax write off?

BMitch

I wonder if you could get a construction loan to purchase a partially complete home

gregmac

@waxeagle yeah I definitely would do that, but still..

wax eagle

@gregmac yeah seems like a PITA

gregmac

Jun 28, 2012 19:50

@BMitch dunno. I think I may investigate a custom build, but that is also quite the endeavour..

Jay Bazuzi

I plan to go buy the lumber for my little building today.

gregmac

at least with this subdivision builds, you basically sign a contract, and then 8 months later you have a finished house (in between you pick some finishes and make a couple payments)

Jay Bazuzi

Not sure if I should pick out the wood myself in to my truck, or have them deliver.

Tester101

Into the Wild. Can't remember if it was a short bus though.

Jay Bazuzi

Sad film.

Never bought more than a few sticks at a time before.

gregmac

Jun 28, 2012 19:52

custom is great because then I could do a bunch of work myself, and not waste money on things I'm going to just rip out... but downside is I have to be way more hands-on in a project management sort of way.

BMitch

@JayBazuzi people that like the outdoors (me) think it's sad, people that spend too much time with their day job (gf) see it as liberating.

Jay Bazuzi

I read that the antidote was easily available in local wild plants, but he didn't know.

Tester101

@JayBazuzi I'd ask wherever you're buying from. Some places charge if an order is too small.

BMitch

@gregmac You'd still get someone to oversee the project, I'm sure it's still a lot of work

Jay Bazuzi

There are 3 possible suppliers nearby. My neighbor suggests looking over their stock to see who has good wood right now.

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 19:55

The subdivision builds next to me have every corner cut that they can, lots of cheap stuff in the walls where you can't see it

Lipstick on a pig

Jay Bazuzi

"Hey, that's a good-looking pig!"

BMitch

Custom builds have you watching and insisting on fixing all those issues

Jay Bazuzi

I build slowly because I spend most of my thinking, planning, learning, etc.

I'm still trying to decide about rafter units built on the deck vs. rafters placed on the roof.

The answers I got seem to like build-in-place, so I guess I should do that.

3

Q: Should I pre-build rafter units, or build them in-place?

I'm planning a small roof - 12' x 16', gable style. Almost all the rafters will identical. Should I build rafter units ahead of time? 2 rafters + a ceiling joist + plywood gussets. I'd make a simple jig on the deck (before the walls are built) to assemble a rafter unit. Like pre-built trusses bu...

Tester101

@JayBazuzi It might be easier to pre-build them, but only if you have help lifting them in place.

Maybe a really long ramp, you can slide them up.

Jay Bazuzi

There are 2 of us working together most of the time.

gregmac

Jun 28, 2012 20:04

@BMitch yeah I've seen that for sure. At least I know what to look for. There's a walk-through after framing, and from what I've seen of the model homes and a friend's, Tamarack mostly does okay with them.

Jay Bazuzi

It seems like you're saying that it will be very hard to lift the rafter units in to place.

But I keep thinking they won't be too heavy, since the building is only 12' wide.

Tester101

@JayBazuzi Some pulleys, rope, and good rigging can be a huge help as well.

gregmac

seems like a good excuse to rent some fun big machinery

Jay Bazuzi

There is a guy in town with a small crane, costs $100 minimum.

Tester101

@JayBazuzi It's true you're working on a smaller scale than a house, but you might still find they are too heavy and awkward to maneuver into place.

Why not try it? if it's too hard to lift them into position, just build them in place.

Jay Bazuzi

Jun 28, 2012 20:09

@Tester101: yeah, maybe that.

I'm used to software where you can try something, and it costs almost nothing to throw it away and try again. :-)

how important is a ridge beam?

gregmac

svn revert roof.*

Jay Bazuzi

As far as I can tell, normal practice is to use a ridge beam 1 size wider than the rafters, so the rafters can fully bear on it the beam. That makes for a pretty heavy stick.

Tester101

@JayBazuzi My garage (not built by me) has a 1x6 as the ridge beam, and 2x4 rafters. Not saying I'd want to walk around on it, but it's held up for however long it's been there (10-30 years?)

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 20:27

@JayBazuzi The ridge beam is important and the second thing to go up if you build it in pieces

The first thing to go up are the joists

With the ridge beam up there, you place the rafters going from the ridge beam to edge (typically to the top plate of the wall below if memory serves me, but now it's to the point I should pull out my framing book)

Jay Bazuzi

Cool.

Tester101

Doesn't seem like a ridge beam is really that important. The weight of the roof is going to transfer down the rafters, and try to push the walls apart. As long as the rafters are secured to the walls, and the walls are held together well, how much is the ridge beam really doing.

Jay Bazuzi

I thought about using a mere 2x4 for the ridge beam, and notching the rafters to fit around it.

Tester101

What size rafters are you using?

Jay Bazuzi

2x6 rafters

Tester101

Jun 28, 2012 20:33

So you're going to use a 2x10 ridge beam?

BMitch

ridge beam gives you a nailer for the top edge of the roof and keeps the rafters evenly spaced

Jay Bazuzi

I figured a 2x8 ridge beam would give me enough nailing surface for the 2x6 rafters.

BMitch

time to go back to the book

Tester101

@BMitch Right, but structurally... It's just preventing your triangles from falling over.

Jay Bazuzi

I have quite a few books in front of me :-)

Tester101

Jun 28, 2012 20:35

@JayBazuzi Oh yeah sorry, 2x8.

Jay Bazuzi

If I do the rafter units, with a little plywood gusset at the peak, then I think it makes sense to notch in for a 2x4 ridge beam.

Tester101

@JayBazuzi What type of building is this?

just a shed?

Jay Bazuzi

A little more than a shed. But not a house, either.

It will fill a bunch of roles that the yurt doesn't fill. Like it will have a composting toilet in it.

So we won't be in it all day, but we want it to be more comfortable than your typical shed.

Maybe on par with "rustic cabin".

Tester101

Maybe @BMitch will find an answer in his book, or @shirlockhomes will show up with some good advice. But your plan sounds good to me.

Jay Bazuzi

I am going lumber shopping now, but will keep an eye out here later. Thanks for your patient guidance, all.

BMitch

Jun 28, 2012 20:43

have fun at the lumber yard @JayBazuzi

reading through the book, there isn't any roof design without a ridge beam until I get to the engineered design

looking over that now

with trusses (the pre-engineered roofs that are delivered to most homes these days) you have a lot of internal supports to maintain the spacing and prevent them from tipping over.

There's at least a line of supports across each side of the ridge, half way down the roof if it's fairly large, and some diagonals

That was a good distraction, but I still stand by my opinion that this is easier to frame with a rafter and in pieces. It becomes a 2 person job at that point.

You can raise the ridge beam with a temporary 2x4 that's tacked into the wall directly below and a couple of braces, or you can have everyone hold tight while you get the gable ends assembled on each side.

I meant to say it's easier to frame with a "ridge beam"

anyway, time is up for PUT and I need to get off my butt and out for a walk. Have a great weekend everyone!

Thanks for joining this week's PUT

Project Update Thursday - 28 June 2012

Home Improvement

Participants