Conversation started Aug 18, 2011 at 20:35.
Gilles
Gilles
Aug 18, 2011 20:35
Heh. Also, the whole recommendations bit is going to be terrifying for whoever has to mod that site.
TML
TML
I mean, I know about the "propose questions" feature
@Gilles Terrifying in what way?
Gilles
Gilles
@TML They weren't there at the very beginning
I don't remember when they were added, maybe after you committed (that proposal sure has been a long time in commitment)
TML
TML
I can't say I've ever spent a lot of time on Area51
Gilles
Gilles
@TML Mark Rogers is a mod on Scifi, he has been moderating recommendation questions
Though our big problem was with list questions really (what are some/all works about X)
I've already ranted on that on Literature Meta
We never gave recommendations a serious chance, most of them were bad because they invited one-liner answers and not necessarily because they were asking for recommendations
TML
TML
Aug 18, 2011 21:05
I saw your link over to the SF&F site, but all I could see there is that it ended up at a -1 (or -3, depending on which category you're referring to). I don't have enough rep there to see what the spread was (for example, did you only have 3 guys voting, all who were against it?)
@Gilles I mean, obviously I'm not an active member of SF&F, I have no idea how these events shook out. But it seems to me that if you have a lot of them out of the gate, and you keep the number of them high, you'll draw an audience that is interested in asking and answering such, instead of an audience that is opposed to them.
For my part, I like them. I've asked a few, and I've answered all of them where I have even the slightest inkling of related experience. I wouldn't be upset if that became the site. SE clearly would, but shrug - if the site I want to be a part of doesn't match any site that SE wants to host, then I'd rather have that come now, instead of 90 days from.
I think I may be one of the few people on earth disappointed at the shift from SE 1.0 to SE 2.0, because it means now that I have to convince SE that my site is "worth hosting", instead of just being able to say "I've got the idea, I've got the $129 - don't worry yourself over whether or not I have an audience, that's MY problem."
Now if I want to see a site be successful, I have to do a whole bunch of things I hate. Instead of just kicking back and answering questions, I have to become a marketer and promoter. BLEGH
Gilles
Gilles
Aug 18, 2011 21:23
@TML It used to have a lower score, it's been upvoted more than downvoted since
@TML You can see some of the history if you search for “list” on our Meta.
We deleted a lot of them at some point. Look at the history of this meta question
As I wrote on Literature Meta: we ended up with lots and lots of one-liner answers, which weren't any use.
Paradoxically, now that the site is mostly clean, the pro-list movement is stronger.
It's something like this: 1/3 are strongly for list questions. 1/3 are strongly against. 1/3 are in the middle. (Not precise figures by any means, just giving the idea.)
When the questions were out there, that middle 1/3 saw them as an eyesore and was against them. Now that there's nothing to serve as a warning sign, the middle 1/3 doesn't see the problem and wants them in.
TML
TML
And I'm always going to be in the "strongly for" 30%, so it's hard for me to see the objection.
as you said there
9
Q: Are list questions allowed?

Martinho FernandesThis just started, but there already seems to be a lot of questions that essentially boil down to "Please list stories that X". These questions cannot have a definitive answer, and sometimes you can simply find a highly comprehensive list on wikipedia. These kinds questions can be interesting to ...

discussion faq on-topic-discussion
"they're interesting because they lead people to discover new works about particular themes"
@Gilles I'm curious as to which 1/3 you put yourself in - you seem to argue both sides of it a lot :)
Gilles
Gilles
@TML I changed over time. In the very early days, I thought they were fun and interesting. Then (day 6) I downloaded all the question titles to sort them out, and realized 25% of the site was list questions. They felt overwhelming.
2
As time went by, I realized that there were three types of responses to list quesions:
a link to a list of works, typically TV Tropes → no value added: we're just linking to another site
lots of one-work-per-answer → a mess, the answers are typically not explained and not sorted in any reasonable way, and even when there are a lot they're far from exhaustive
few one-work-per-answer → totally useless, noone's going to learn anything from that
So now, I guess I'm still in the middle 1/3. Because I don't think the questions are fundamentally bad, I just think our site's community can't give them good answers. (A good answer is one that gives a lot of examples, focusing on the most relevant ones, explains how they relate to each other, discuss influences, …)
But I remember the deleted crap. So I'm in the middle 1/3 but remain against the list questions.
TML
TML
Aug 18, 2011 21:41
Just to restate, you're saying "Even when answers are well written, they're not going to be exhaustive, and that makes them a bad answer?"
Or did I infer something you didn't intend to imply? :)
Gilles
Gilles
@TML No: there were very very few answers that went beyond giving one or two examples, and occasionally indicating why they were relevant (even that was far from systematic)
You can see a few list questions that we haven't deleted
Keep in mind that these are the best ones. The ones where I thought the content may be slightly useful. And even then, they're rather a warning.
sorry about the delays, I'm juggling between rooms
where were we?
TML
TML
No worries
 
Conversation ended Aug 18, 2011 at 21:49.