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07:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

7:35 AM
Wow, I missed a convo and a half last night...
 
 
3 hours later…
10:18 AM
Poor @Blue
 
Can anyone give me an advice how to gain the best performance from opengl while rendering and updating vbos?
I want to find the best way to use vbos
 
What performance are you getting now?
 
Well if i dont animate my character my fps gets up to 120
and if i animate it, fps gets down to 70
that's because i use a vbo for each mesh
and i update all the data of a vbo whent the mesh is animated
 
Doesn't sound too bad.
 
well i know that there are much better ways
but i want to find the fastest and most flexable
oh and i guess that is pretty bad
because, my game will be really slow when it will get biggger
there will be much more vbo
 
10:26 AM
Have you tried adding more animated models and see how it affects performance?
 
and i will update much more data that i dont need to update
that's why i want to stop, and optimize
@William'MindWorX'Mariager i haven't tried that, but in the development process i noticed, that more models i add, less fps i get
 
Well, before you optimize, you should try to document the issue.
Then you could start profiling, and see where the bottle neck is.
 
i just told you where it is
"that's because i use a vbo for each mesh"
"and i update all the data of a vbo whent the mesh is animated"
 
That doesn't sound very specific.
If you're just looking for a fix-it-all solution, I won't be of much help. I'm a fan of learning and doing. :)
 
@William'MindWorX'Mariager read doing as "dong"
 
10:47 AM
What did I just stumble upon here?? o_O
 
Nothing...
Nothing at all..
 
I'm not the biggest fan of Dongs no.
 
@visDEVion I'm kind of with @William'MindWorX'Mariager there. If you know your route isn't the best and you know of better solutions, try them. Don't spend too much time worrying about the BEST solution. It's a waste of time.
 
@ToddersLegrande thanks
 
A picture of thousands of dongs.
@Blue
 
10:52 AM
@visDEVion no problem. Just my two cents anyway. If I actually had an answer I'd give you that too but I've never worked with 3D so I'm afraid you are on your own there.
 
11:35 AM
My recommendation, Stress test it in intervals.
@visDEVion If you add 1 of the asset, then 10, then 100, 1000,10000 Find where it bottlenecks.
Then after you have a rough idea of the figures involved you can then have a safe benchmark to work from
Lets say the most it can hold on 60 fps is 3000 of your asset.
Then you can see if your changes make this figure go higher, lower, different FPS, etc.
 
12:10 PM
what Blue said.
 
what Almo said.
 
what ToddersLegrande said.
 
:D
 
12:33 PM
aw blue! you were supposed to say "what William said"
 
:(
Blue broke it all.
 
Damnit @Blue!
Who invited this guy?
 
1:16 PM
I did! Byteches!
 
1:33 PM
Does anyone know about something easy that could parse something like "Dexterity + (Strength * 0.1)" into AST (in javascript)
 
AST = ?
 
Abstract syntax tree
 
ah. ok. :)
 
i need it so that i can define formula for dependent attributes like Damage = that formula above, and when someone changes Dexterity, it will change Damage too (then it will notify client with both changes)
so i could either write formula, and then duplicate dependent properties in another variable
or find some primitive javascript (or whatever) parser in javascript
http://javascript.crockford.com/tdop/index.html
this seems nice
 
2:28 PM
hey folks
It's a port of the SpiderMonkey JS engine, compiled into LLVM and then cross-compiled into JS using Emscripten.
 
are here any java programers, that can tell me how to get the size of a float buffer?
 
uhhhh, what kind of buffer?
If it's just an array, use array.length.
 
Yeah. FloatBuffer#array() will give you a float[], then you just use the .length property.
Or if you want the amount left in the buffer, use this: docs.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/nio/…
that literally took 3-4 seconds to punch into Google.
Actually, you gave me the link to the page, I just had to find the right method for you.
Remember that FloatBuffer extends Buffer, so you can use capacity(), remaining(), and position() from that.
What's the application of this? Are you doing raw audio samples?
 
@ShotgunNinja tried it, and i got an error
i'm using it for opengl rendering
 
what have you tried?
Oh. Right. .array() only works if it was constructed by passing in a float[].
That's why there's a hasArray() method.
The buffer doesn't have to have a backing array.
I would switch to using remaining() or capacity(), depending on what you want to do with the buffer.
 
2:59 PM
but what does capacity actualy return?
 
It returns the amount of ____s in the buffer.
 
i dont think so
 
docs.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/nio/Buffer.html - "A buffer's capacity is the number of elements it contains. The capacity of a buffer is never negative and never changes."
 
> A buffer's capacity is the number of elements it contains. The capacity of a buffer is never negative and never changes.
 
@Gajoo LOL
 
3:02 PM
@CodeAssassin used chat as an image uploader, any problems?
 
@Gajoo I thought I saw some dude blind-folded and tied in a chair.
 
@Gajoo You are the worst kind of person.
 
@CodeAssassin that was the exact image...
 
@ShotgunNinja but i'm not sure if the elements are floats, because it returns large numbers
 
user image
2
 
3:05 PM
What image - dare I ask...
AHAHAH
 
@ShotgunNinja but this one was really worth to be shared...
 
user image
3
 
My wife's old computer had the side of the case open and a box fan next to it to keep it cool
 
one of my favs
 
3:07 PM
@ShotgunNinja ah no, sorry. You're right!
 
@Blue image's too small, reading texts is hard :(
 
i just can't believe that my rendering data contains 500k floats
 
Lol I laughed at "How the customers were billed". Nice one @Blue
 
@visDEVion It's cool.
 
@visDEVion only 500k?
it's not even 2MB
 
3:12 PM
@Gajoo one triangle has 24 floats, so there are about 20k triangles
and there's not much to see in my game :D
 
@visDEVion Battery (the game I used to work on...) had more than 40k floats, only for a 50x50 grid map
and they were all computer generated :D
 
@gajoo webdesign.tm/swing.jpg you alternative version :D
 
@Blue much better
 
<3
 
@Gajoo i remember that project. Have you finished it?
 
3:15 PM
@Blue did you by any chance use google image search?
 
@ShotgunNinja thats a little complex :)
 
@visDEVion nope still waiting for some good guy to implement netplay mechanism
 
@Kikaimaru lol.
 
Yes Gajoo, yes I did.
 
@Gajoo what kind of project are you working on now?
 
3:18 PM
@visDEVion currently I'm getting paid to develop an iPhone side scroller runner game,
 
anyone can show me some cool game that you developed?
 
@visDEVion well, I've got lots of cool games I've developed, the problem is only I like playing them... :P
 
@visDEVion I can show you 8 turrets firing at boxes for fun...
 
show everything you've got :D
 
3:22 PM
@visDEVion you can play battery v0.0.1 though.
 
@Gajoo give me a link
 
@visDEVion and here is the whole blog (in case you wanted to know how AI was implemented or how am I generating that maze). just ignore all comments.
 
@Gajoo lolololol, look at all of the comments on each of your posts... They're all Louis Vuitton spambots and whatever.
 
@ShotgunNinja @ToddersLegrande yep, I've just check there is some server error, which prevent me from removing/marking as spam those comments. don't feel like fixing them at all since I'm really into updating that blog until I make a real progress developing that game
maybe I'll resume it this summer
 
Also, I really want to get down and dirty with a Tower Defense game now...
 
3:36 PM
just paid my council tax. That shit hurts my soul.
 
@ShotgunNinja I really love TD games, thumbs up though I don't like developing a game with unity thumbs down :|
 
<3 Unity so far.
 
@Gajoo how to play it? :D
 
@Blue T~T
 
@visDEVion you are playing as the red circle (the first one in the left panel)
 
3:39 PM
OMG shit, I need to file my taxes by next Monday...
 
you should chase after the one below you and get away from the one above you.
 
@Gajoo I seem to have had decent luck avoiding spam using Disqus. I think you can configure that all through the control panel. Food for thought when you get around to it anyway
 
@Gajoo yes
 
@ShotgunNinja glad I mentioned it to remind ya huh?
 
the game is keyboard controlled using only up/down/left/right
you can also play it with your friends on same keyboard. (up to 4 or 5)
though I don't remember which keys are assigned to other players
 
3:41 PM
@Blue Nah, it's been on my mind (and in my phone's to-do list)... I just have to correct some things.
I already tried filing it once, and it was rejected outright by the IRS.
I just need to fix it, since I rushed through it and left some stuff obviously screwed up.
 
 
Why on earth is there a 9gag footer on this? It's not even a joke.
 
@ShotgunNinja since it was posted on 9gag
 
9gag's repeated footer garbage pisses me off.
 
wonder how deep it can go with re-adding the footer
 
yes
 
Okay. Also, @Almo, that's the Wumpus World program I'm now porting to C#.
 
ah ok
 
Or rather, that's my writeup from the first version I made, in Java.
It's probably my favorite program I've ever written, since it fully implements a complete and concise framework for evaluating AI agents in a Wumpus World, and analyzing their performance.
 
@ShotgunNinja a pdf?
 
3:59 PM
@Gajoo The PDF is the writeup.
 
also what is wumpus world
 
Hunt the Wumpus is an early video game, based on a simple hide and seek format featuring a mysterious monster (the Wumpus) that lurks deep inside a network of rooms. It was originally a text-based game written in BASIC. It has since been ported to various programming languages and platforms including graphical versions. Development Hunt the Wumpus was originally written by Gregory Yob in BASIC while attending the Dartmouth campus of the University of Massachusetts in 1972 or 1973. Out of frustration with all the grid-based hunting games he had seen, such as Snark, Mugwump, and Hur...
Wumpus World is the AI version of Hunt the Wumpus, and is used to teach AI concepts of pathfinding and goal location in a partially observable, navigable environment.
The current "bible of AI", (aima.cs.berkeley.edu), uses the Wumpus World as an example project.
 
finally, I'm almost done with my cpp assignment. I wrote the crappiest code ever
I have no idea how it works and why it works mainly because I have no idea of cpp's ins and outs
i don't call this productive at all
then again, I should've started eariler
 
Yep.
Curse of programming in academia.
Everyone procrastinates.
 
it's not really procrastination
I do spend all of my spare time coding
just not for the assignments
:P
 
4:12 PM
Yeah... I used to, but I've started playing video games more often instead... It hasn't been good for my professional habits.
 
lol I keep on trying to actually play something more often but I always fail
I normally stop working an hour or so before going to bed
and every time, instead of playing something
I end up checking my facebook and whatnot
 
what happened to @visDEVion? I was expecting some kind of feedback...
 
played an hour or so of Morrowind a couple of days ago after a long pause
felt like home <3
 
@Gajoo you're game is fun
 
@visDEVion well, that's a little bit motivation! though I didn't even implemented 1/10 of the gameplay so far.
 
4:19 PM
@Gajoo Ooh, your game only takes 3.4 MB. I can actually download it lol
 
actually it should be much less.
 
the .zip says 3.4 that's all I know
4 minutes remaining
 
I've linked lots of unused libraries, and added some engine data.
@BogdanMarginean hey I guess someone out there has an internet connection worth than mine
 
@Gajoo it pains me lol even when I was in 6th grade I had better internet
"Network error"
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
UUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
@BogdanMarginean :D
 
4:23 PM
blew the interview yesterday. I freaked out, which is unusual for me, and I couldn't do a simple vector math problem, and had trouble with algo questions I shouldn't have.
oh well, I have an offer to do some iOS programming. Will give it some more thought (1 hour commute), and probably accept it tomorrow.
 
Oh lovely. I forgot that my old AI code depends heavily on the AIMA java code for functionality... it's fairly complex code. I have to port it to C#, or make use of the ancient existing port, which doesn't have generics.
 
@Almo Good luck!
 
:)
 
@Almo blame the interviewer :P
 
haha :)
 
4:43 PM
did anyone here have trouble with the previous version of Google Chrome? I kept on getting SOCKET_NOT_CONNECTED errors when googling stuff. I've updated it today and so far it works fine
was wondering if it was a bug or if it can persist
 
I've just noticed a single class of my current code has more than 150 lines of header and 1k lines of implementation :|
and the whole project is about 7k lines of implementation + 1.7 likes of headers.
 
ever since I started TDD-ing, I get paranoia attacks every time I move on from an untested method
I should measure how much time TDD saves me on average, just out of curiosity. I certainly debug muuuuch less
 
Ugh, I wish my company used TDD. Instead, I have to go back and troubleshoot all of our existing websites every single damn time something breaks.
They're absolutely terrible, btw. Our websites are slapped together by anyone the company thought was a good programmer. Some of them are overly designed, while others (especially on the frontend side) are cobbled together with sticks and bits of string.
The main problem with our company is that whenever we come up with a new fix, it gets half-implemented by someone, and only on some of the sites, leaving others in various stages of aging and disarray.
We also have no team software process, and no stable tools for development, project management, deployment, or version control (we use CVS).
There's next to no review or SQA procedures.
it's just plain gross.
 
sounds like a fun place to work in lol /obvious sarcasm
no experience with working in such conditions though, but some problems seem to have obvious and simple solutions
 
4:56 PM
Yep. And I'm one of like 12 people in the Systems department. We have more websites than people.
 
what's stopping them from actually fixing things?
 
@BogdanMarginean In some cases, politics; in other cases, time.
 
according to that article the best size of a vbo is 1-4mb
4 mb is about 4000000 bytes right?
4194304bytes
so if a float is 4 bytes...
a vbo can have 1048576 floats
and if a triangle in my game has data with 24 floats
than i can put 43690 triangle into vbo
wat?
why?
 
?
 
@Gajoo what?
 
5:06 PM
43690 triangles means 43690 * 3 * 2 bytes for an index array, nothing more
you can even draw all those triangles using 3 vertices!
 
8 floats per vertex (Position(3), Normal(3), UV(2))
3 vertices per Triangle = 24 floats per triangle
 
triangles can share vertices.
 
yes. But I'm explaning the numbers above
 
I know, I was just saying those are not reliable enough :P
 
assuming the question is "wat? why?" as in why can I put 43690 triangles into a VBO
 
5:11 PM
that's not good
:(
 
why isn't that good?
 
i was thinking about making a single vbo for everything to gain performance
and actually i already am doing it
 
AFAIK you should create different VBOs for different purposes, meaning one for indices and one for vertices.
 
reminds me of this paper i read a while back which had the summary
"Vertex Buffer misuse is the most prevalent architectureal problem"
or something like that
 
@Jimmy how should i use vbo?
 
5:18 PM
what does that question even mean
 
i mean
how many vbos for what kind of data
how should i know how many vbos to create
and what data to put to each
 
I'd separate the draws out into static and dynamic
so that you can have your static stuff allocated along like the 4MB boundaries or so
and the dynamic, I dunno. I use individual buffers for those. But I'm sure there's probably some way to merge them into larger buffers.
 
I don't get something. I'm using regex search/replace under VS2010 and try to find stuff like cin >> ("%s"
cin\s*>>\s*(* works
cin\s*>>\s*( does not
 
@Jimmy does it really bother anyone if I allocation VBOs larger than 4MB?
 
cin\s*>>\s*(+ does not either
why? the first variant searches for 0 or more "("
the 2nd searches for just one (
 
5:25 PM
@Gajoo probably not, that's just NVIDIA's recommended size range
 
the third searches for 1+ "("
but only the first works
am I missing something here?
 
for ease of memory management. At some point, you might not be able to allocate a large contiguous block of VRAM though
I'm not too sure how VRAM fragmentation works
 
@Jimmy textures for example are usually larger than 4MB (in recent games)
 
that's a good point
I guess you could theoretically just dump all static content into one VBO then. I dunno. I haven't really had a situation where I had a predetermined static object pool
 
there should be some restriction, but it should be larger than 4MB in common desktop/laptop cards
 
5:47 PM
Alright my sweetums. Back at home :D
 
Sweetums. lol
 
Guess who just had a phone interview ^^ @Gajoo @ShotgunNinja @ToddersLegrande
3
 
@Blue Sweetums did?
 
Damn straight!
 
5:53 PM
Starring that mother fucker ^
 
Indeed.
The answer to all of those questions is "I have no clue, just dick around until someone hires you or you finish something."
 
lol
"How to became a Game Designer?" - I realize english isn't everyone's first language but I really enjoy broken english for some reason.
I like to point it out for good laughs. Not to put the guy down. Kudos for speaking a foreign language after all
 
I find it irritating when it appears in something that is supposed to look professional, but hilarious to the point of being obnoxious when it is done either intentionally or accidentally in common usage.
 
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