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2:01 PM
@Allan right, open().readlines() is your best bet for this kind of thing, it's immensely fast if your lines are short (< 1000 chars)
note that readlines() gives you each line with a trailing line-feed (\n), and the last element is just "\n", so you'll want to use some sort of generator function like the dictionary one
 
@StefanoPalazzo Thanks for the tip I'll give it a go.
 
i for i an list if [some condition] is basically like a filter,
like, i for i in range(1000) if i % 2 == 0.
 
@StefanoPalazzo like tooth for a tooth ;)
 
Does anyone speak - or read Japanese? What does this symbol mean: 見
 
2:08 PM
google ;-)
 
@StefanoPalazzo I tried, but I'm getting inconsistent results :)
 
@StefanoPalazzo If you are using python its a prerequisite that you throw a joke in now and again. And now for something completely different.
@MarcoCeppi where from?
probably depends on the context
 
↑ try "import antigravity" on the interactive interpreter
:-)
or even "from __future__ import braces"
 
@Allan I'm designing a logo so I want to make sure it doesn't say something it's not supposed to :)
 
I know it's possible to write a program that makes sense of "عبدالله العنزي"
maybe I should try
 
2:13 PM
@StefanoPalazzo saw that is it martian or something utf8 not gtf8
 
martians?? where??
 
docs.python.org/library/codecs.html#standard-encodings these are all the encodings it could have been, before it was converted wrongly
 
@MarcoCeppi  konnichi wa
 
morning @KaustubhP
 
@MarcoCeppi I just asked one of my Twitter buddies who's learning Japanese - he says "見" means "To see." twitter.com/#!/joertell/status/51285939842068480
 
2:17 PM
@JamesGifford Awesome, thanks - that's exactly what I wanted it to mean
 
@MarcoCeppi You're welcome.
 
I think the string i posted probably means عبدالله العنزي
:-)
 
I am learning Japanese but so far I have only learned one word :-(
 
@MarcoCeppi I think the problem might be on your end, I tried to correct the garbled string, it doesn't change a thing
 
2:41 PM
@StefanoPalazzo huh?
 
@MarcoCeppi try signing with a utf8 string like عبدالله العنزي
 
عبدالله العنزي
?
 
oh lol, so sorry, I'm talking about ourfriendsinjapan.com
 
ohic
 
forgot to mention that :D
 
3:07 PM
@lazyPower morning!
Anyone know good blogs/sites related to sys administration?
 
@MarcoCeppi what was the name of the server planning service you recommended yesterday?
 
@lazyPower rightscale.com it's free unless you want support. Hooks into Rackspace and Amazon clouds
 
@MarcoCeppi Does SO run on windows servers?
 
@KaustubhP Yup
7
Q: How would #1 Bug would be fixed if AskUbuntu uses a Windows Platform?

Tzury Bar YochayUnless this is a Mono port of stackoverflow and it is running on Ubuntu server. Please clarify (Ubuntu's bug #1 is that Microsoft is more popular than Ubuntu - see at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 )

 
3:18 PM
hmm..
Thats interesting.
 
@KaustubhP its a C# .net solution
@MarcoCeppi Thanks for the repost. I'm pitching Amazon at my superiors right now. So far the response has been #yourmom
 
And what is the webapp written in?
@lazyPower cool, we also use AWS :)
 
@KaustubhP .net I believe
 
@KaustubhP its a C# .net MVC (asp.net) solution.
 
MVC huh
 
3:23 PM
yeah, model view controller
 
that reminds me of "object pascal", just stick a programming buzzword onto it :)
 
its not webforms
well, asp.net comes in 2 flavors, thats why i differentiated
i'm working on webforms at my job, and mvc has become the new industry standard since .net 3.5
true separation of design/logic.
if its done correctly that is
 
So, you could write proper MVC code with the other flavour, but this one makes it easier?
 
in webforms? ehhh.. i want to say yes but in reality no. there are a few conventions that make that cumbersome and really a pain in the *** to do.
 
Not knowing any of .net, this seems to me like saying "Encapsulated Java"
 
3:25 PM
example, all webform apps design must appear between a <Form runat=server> tag, mvc has no restriction like that.
 
yeah that makes sense
 
its similiar to that, yes. my knowledge of encapsulated java is VERY VERY limited (As in, the wikipedia article i read on it a while back...)
 
hang on, there is a thing called Encapsulated Java? I just made that up as a joke
to illustrate that MVC is something the programmer should do, not the platform
 
:P thats what i get for trying ot sound quasi-intelligent
 
3:28 PM
i took it as encapsulation in java
 
oh okay
 
@StefanoPalazzo MVC is a programming practice, yes. There are several libraries and other "hooks" that make this easier in .net MVC
cakephp, syphony, support MVC logic in PHP
 
makes total sense to me now
 
Since your a python guy
have a look at this
15
Q: What's a good lightweight Python MVC framework?

jonI know there are a ton of Python frameworks out there. Can you guys point me in the right direction? My primary concern is simplicity, I don't need a lot of extraneous features. Here are a couple of other things that I'd want (or don't want): don't care for ORM, just want it to work with MySQL ...

 
.NET is a framework - not a language :) That's how I've always viewed it
 
3:33 PM
@MarcoCeppi you're right, my mistake for being over-extended. I'm not communicating very well today.... i think this whole meeting-via-email business thats going on has me taxed. I need to go back to coding and forget this administrative clout.
 
I don't know what I'm talking about here, but there's also a ".net language", "common language" or something right? Like a universal bytecode?
 
Think of how Windows did it's OS: Kernel, userland, etc all squished into one. They did the same thing with ASP and .NET they are separate but really they are not.
 
@StefanoPalazzo .net framework compiles things into a "common language" and that is interpreted via the CLI (common language interface)
 
right, just like there are a bunch of compilers that spit out java bytecode
 
MONO has done an excellent job of implementing a CLI for nix
 
3:36 PM
I remember reading a paper about a compiler that spits out C. Can't remember what it was called now.
That'd be even more awesome, if you had a bunch of languages that all "compiled to C"
 
@MarcoCeppi I've noticed your notification extension slows down my PC very badly :(
it just hung chrome for about a minute when someone responded to me in another room
 
@Greg yeah, it's really inefficient. The release this weekend will have a more efficient version of the plugin
 
is the source available?
 
wow awesome, this really isn't a lot of code
 
3:42 PM
Nope - the problem is, it still injects the npapi on every page which is just stupid.
It should use the background.html that loaded as part app - and only once for a browser session. Then share that object forward making it accessible to the pages injected code
 
@MarcoCeppi we are taking a step backwords.. our project lead is pushing for shared hosting so we have a level of accountability on someone elses end.
 
I just haven't found an elegant solution for it
 
@MarcoCeppi nobody is seeing the underlying issue here of hosting.com is still to blame for our downtime.
 
@lazyPower With the cloud you'll never have downtime because of a bad datacenter (if you set it up right)
@lazyPower just say "Listen, I'm smart - you're not. I know it's hard not really knowing what's going on and trying to point fingers. This is what we need - so we can do this to be successful. If you don't do it we'll just continue to flail and bleed money."
Make sure you use buzz words
like Web 2.0, Ajax, and cloud
thsoe always get people's attention
 
@MarcoCeppi what is the level of accountability on amazon ec2? thats going to be the only hook i have to stand ground against this step backwords.
 
3:47 PM
@lazyPower you can check their SLAs
 
I have a social vision for a cloud based bottom-up web 2.0 curating API
but I think geocities is out of business...
 
but they own datacenters all over the world
> AWS will use commercially reasonable efforts to make Amazon EC2 available with an Annual Uptime Percentage (defined below) of at least 99.95% during the Service Year.
 
ec2 is awfully cheap
 
stack exchange needs an e-mail type feature. i want to send you this rebuttle
@MarcoCeppi would you like to see "as the server explodes .. these are the days of our meetings" soap opera thats unfolding in my inbox?
 
You can just email it to me
 
3:54 PM
marco dot ceppi at gfail dot com ?
 
not sure If I'm getting this right. When they they Reserved Instance, One-Time fee, 1 year term, 54$, does that mean you pay 54$ and that's it, what ever you do with the instance?
 
@StefanoPalazzo No you pay $54 on top of your usage (bandwidth and disk space)
we just use instant ones though - no need to reserve :)
 
Oh I see, so that's just the fee for it being a "reserved instance"
 
@StefanoPalazzo Right - it's got a guaranteed run slot and resources in that "zone"
 
3:57 PM
right. If they charge 0.095$ per hour, assuming it's running at full tilt for a year, that's $832.20, still pretty cheap
minus four hours and twenty minutes of downtime :P
 
@StefanoPalazzo If you get micro instances it's like 0.03$/hr
Sorry 0.02
 
Oli
Plus storage?
and bandwidth
 
it's .025 if you want the server to be in ireland (:
 
yes, plus bandwidth and diskspace charges
 
and that's exactly what I want
 
Oli
3:59 PM
Still doesn't come out much cheaper than non "cloud" VPS alternatives
 
For the 10 processing servers we run that are micro in US-EAST we pay 134/mo
Considering most comparative statisticed servers ( figure each micro is 600MB ram) that's not a bad deal
 
Oli
@MarcoCeppi That doesn't work - 10(0.02×24×30) = 144
 
@Oli Well we don't always have all 10 on
 
Oli
I see
 
we average between 8 and 12
depending on demand
last month was $134
 
Oli
4:01 PM
Sure
 
mh, a german company offers a VPS at 10€ a month, unlimited traffic
 
Oli
@StefanoPalazzo OpenVZ?
 
Still trying to sort out the details, they talk about the cloud so much it's hard to tell what they sell
 
Oli
(rather than Xen, etc as the virtualisation tech)
@StefanoPalazzo A common issue these days :(
 
Well, it's a good marketing tactic.
If you're trying to woo the people holding the money and not the people who have to deal with it.
 
4:04 PM
@Oli is this business of "unlimited traffic" common for cheap VPSs? They say it's 100mbits, no throttling
 
@MarcoCeppi ridiculous is it not?
 
@lazyPower just sent you your selling point with another email right behind it
 
@Oli it's Parallels, apparently
 
@StefanoPalazzo So, Virtuozzo? :)
 
the company is 1&1 (I think they do business outside of germany as well)
 
4:07 PM
@StefanoPalazzo Oh, they do hates 1&1
 
1&1 is bad?
 
Can't see why at the moment :-) This offer sounds awesome to me (a sysadmin noob)
 
I think all hosting companies are bad, now that I think about it.
 
Mine is pretty awesome.
 
I've been thinking about starting shared hosting by running Amazon instances
 
4:09 PM
@Marco: You and me should start a hosting company :P
(Running Ubuntu Server of course...)
 
You would laugh if I told you how many times I've tried to start a hosting company
 
(Although I know you preferred something else - I can't remember what it was.)
 
they're cheapest VPS is, quote "0€".
doesn't sound entirely trustworthy
 
@MarcoCeppi Okay... try me.
 
4:10 PM
@StefanoPalazzo Where's that?
Lol... you win :P
 
The 16th attempt is working pretty well as of now
but we don't have the ability to scale...yet
 
never mind, it's 0€ for three months, and <small> 39€ afterwards</small>
I never thought to look, but most of the VPS offers have Ubuntu installed by default, if you don't choose anything else
that's awesome
 
Oli
@StefanoPalazzo I personally won't touch anything that plays fast-and-lose with RAM allocations. If you see the phrase (or German analogue) "burstable", run for your life. I had a client on a burstable system and his wordpress site was happy to nom up all the RAM and the server just ground to an awful, swappy halt every time the burstable portion was reigned back in.
 
linode. That's my two cents to this convo. Linode. linode.com/index.cfm
 
Ah, OOM kills
 
Oli
4:17 PM
@MarcoCeppi Yeah, it's just the scaling nature of things that was fooling Apache/PHP/WP into thinking it had a lot more space for expansion... Until it didn't.
 
Burstable isn't a bad thing - but these two bit hosts try to cram 150 VPS on one hardware node with 64GB of ram - and just have them duke it out for space.
 
Oli
Exactly
 
@JamesGifford You're the third person to tell me that.
 
Oli
It's not just memory allocation that suffers, the CPU is usually under much higher contention. That's how it's cheaper.
 
@GeorgeEdison Only the third? :p
 
4:18 PM
Also, Virtouzzo (and OpenVZ by proxy) is horrible at relaying the right memory usage to containers - typically it'll just say what the host hardware has
 
Oli
And definitely not VPS.net. They use XEN but they're awful. My rant: thepcspy.com/read/why-i-cant-recommend-vpsnet
 
@JamesGifford Yup... but hardly anyone recommends anything these days, so that's pretty good.
 
I'd be very happy with ram fixed at 512m
just have to write smarter programs :)
 
Doesn't VBox have an API?
 
Oli
But yeah, heartily recommend Linode too. Fast, solid and they don't dodge questions about the framework they use.
 
4:20 PM
I thought it had an XUL-based one.
@Oli Do they offer truly customizable VPSs?
 
@GeorgeEdison Guess so. If you're doing ruby on rails (Or sinatra, or any ruby web framework) stuff, heroku is awesome as well.
 
Like could I replace Apache with something else?
 
Oli
@GeorgeEdison How do you mean?
 
linode is pretty awesome
 
Oli
@GeorgeEdison Yeah, you just get an Ubuntu machine that you can do anything with
 
4:21 PM
Cool!
 
Oli
Affilliate link if anybody wants to earn me $20 when signing up: linode.com/?r=18f121d2d8e8985a3bd752b945f5410ba2627e69
Most people selling a VPS will give you root access. It's not really a VPS if they don't
 
@Oli Thanks. I bookmarked it for later.
 
Linode's good to existing customers too
when I had it over time they would like, throw in RAM for free, etc.
but that was the early days
I don't really have a need for a VPS these days though
 
Oli
@JorgeCastro Yeah they tend to do that on their birthday
That was the last one, last year... ~42% increase in RAM for no extra money
 
nice
 
Oli
4:27 PM
I also like their CPU allotment. I've got a dozen Django sites running on my Linode and bear in mind it's peak time for most of them but because there's a very limited number of sites on a host machine, everything just flies and nothing backs up. My Load is 0.00 0.00 0.00
Of course as soon as I said that, it would have to peak to the dizzy heights of 0.05, 0.01, 0.00
 
@Oli Considering I almost crashed our devel server with a load of 102 that's not that bad :P
 
Oli
102?!
When I see a system at 3 or 4, I get nervous. Sounds like a beast of a machine.
 
102... out of 100? :P
 
Oli
1 is "100% of one CPU" IIRC
So if there's only 1 CPU, 102 is 10,200% CPU, aka hugely overloaded.
 
I thought the number was the amount of time it took a process to execute
 
4:39 PM
In UNIX computing, the system load is a measure of the amount of work that a computer system performs. The load average represents the average system load over a period of time. It conventionally appears in the form of three numbers which represent the system load during the last one-, five-, and fifteen-minute periods. Unix-style load calculation All Unix and Unix-like systems generate a metric of three "load average" numbers in the kernel. Users can easily query the current result from a Unix shell by running the uptime command: $ uptime 14:34:03 up 10:43, 4 users, load avera...
 
Just had a sikuli/python script uploading a batch of tasks to rtm for me most fun I've had in ages (complete nerd)
@RolandTaylor Ho
@RolandTaylor its off to work we go
 
@Allan ^^
wow that sounds like fun
 
@RolandTaylor I hate doing anything repetitive on a computer they were designed so we didn't have to do that
 
Oli
Well.. Huzzzah! Sold the house.
3
 
4:48 PM
@Oli literally?
 
Oli
In 9 days for slightly more than the asking price. And got them to buy a load of furniture as we don't have to move it, on top.
@Allan Yeah
When I say sold, I mean, under offer. Now starts the long process of getting contracts drawn up and conveyed
 
@Allan that's true
 
@Oli is this for more capital for the tyranid army?
 
Oli
@Allan I'd like to say you could buy a lot of Tyranids for a house... But they were expensive way-back-when... God knows how much they cost now
 
@Oli and then there's the paint and the brushes........
 
Oli
4:56 PM
That'll set you back £31+P&P + paint
 
@Oli Btw when's the film out or is it already?
 
Oli
@Allan Ultramarines, last year. Haven't seen it.
 
In linguistics, hypercorrection is defined as usage of some rule of pronunciation or grammatical prescription that many users of a language consider incorrect, but that the speaker or writer uses through misunderstanding of these rules, often combined with a desire to seem formal or educated. Linguistic hypercorrection occurs when a real or imagined grammatical or phonetical rule is applied in a mistaken or non-standard context, so that an attempt to be "correct" leads to an incorrect result: Faced with enough exceptions to a rule, the speaker might mistake the exception for the general...
 
@Oli The Pretty Boys Chapter the makeup budget must have been astronomical (I know it was cg) ;)
 
5:22 PM
@MarcoCeppi i fear I am the only person plugging that we go to the cloud.
 
@Oli I made a website for a guy who paints models like that
are you allowed to self-advertise on here?
 
@Greg go for it greg
 
I think he does some good painting
 
@Greg But what's the Avatar doing in there ;)
Token Eldar
 
@Allan I don't know what you mean
I don't know anything about the models, I just made the site
 
5:33 PM
@Greg HTML5 boilerplate? #curious
 
@lazyPower There's only so much you can do
 
@JamesGifford no but I probably took some inspiration from html5 boilerplate
 
i used your response as my final rebuttle, if it falls upon deaf ears, i'm out on the whole clout. I AM the new guy after all, i must be stupid.
 
@Greg Ah ok.
 
@lazyPower Well when it fails again as it will - simply be like "I remember when I mentioned Cloud"
 
5:37 PM
hah :)
 
At the end of the day it's not your call despite how much you want it to me
 
i love being arrogant
hi5 @MarcoCeppi
 
good god ... screw inline skating and the one who invented it ...
 
@OctavianDamiean you have ot have strong ankles for it. I alas, do not have them. I've ate more asphalt from trying ot learn inline skating than I care to admit.
 
well I used to be pretty good (not to say quite amazing) but apparently I'm getting older too which is quite a surprise for me
actually not surprise but shock
 
5:50 PM
@OctavianDamiean i feel ya. I leapt off the porch here at work and clicked my heels, i've put on about 15 lb's since i started this job and i'll be darned if I didnt feel the weight + age difference of just 2 years ago. Forward momentum + being in mid air usually doesnt end well unless you're wearing a helmet.
 
I'm so exhausted that even thinking is hard ...
@lazyPower heh :)
 
sorry, had a mortality moment this afternoon ;)
 
6:05 PM
looks like I'm not going to be pressed for time :D
 
yay! :D
 
this next app developer week is going to be awesome
 
\o/
 
I've noticed that a lot of the apps in Ubuntu are python based. How hard is it to do ruby based applications? (Just curious - sorry if this sounds like a stupid question).
 
@JamesGifford not hard at all
 
6:12 PM
@lazyPower So it's just not "common" then?
 
@JamesGifford however, the ubuntu ruby package isnt quite "sane", there are some tweaks you will have to do to get ruby up to snuff.
@JamesGifford indeed. Plus i beleive that Ubuntu has made it rather easy to write python apps by pretty much advertising for it. I've seen quite a few articles about writing python apps for gnome/ubuntu. I've read next to nothing about ruby. Most of the ruby buzz is in rails these days though.
and if you're @MarcoCeppi you hate ruby, and pearl, and anything that isnt PHP :P
 
When it comes to GTK, python and ruby are about equally easy
 
@lazyPower True. And since we were just praising the cloud, kinda makes sense that all the ruby buzz is rails.
 
it's just that there are a lot of python libraries that you can use
making even very complicated things very easy to implement
 
@lazyPower I don't hate python :)
 
6:14 PM
I dig how python is like .net, you can impliment other language's libraries (or so i've read)
i personally dont know python. and have no experience in it.
 
@lazyPower It's very easy to write python modules in C and C++, and if you're using Jython, you can just "import" every Java library (same for IronPython and every .net language)
 
@StefanoPalazzo thats sick :) i like it. I'll have to look into IronPython at some point.
 
and you can access every c and c++ shared library with two lines of code
 
Hmm. I think I'll be the person to write a ruby note taking app for Ubuntu. And I'll get it in the repositories. (Or at least try).
or something.
 
@JamesGifford make it as useful as one-note (dont flame me plz)
 
6:16 PM
sup
 
@JamesGifford thats the one app i wish i had. Theres no decent alternative that I have found. Handwriting recognition, integrated math functions, tagging, "cloud based note taking", collaborative notes... lofty project, but you know ;)
 
@lazyPower I won't flame you. ;) And I'll start working on that as soon as I finish this OTHER thing I actually promised someone I'd do. :p
@lazyPower Hehehe. ;)
 
haha
I wonder if its possible using webkit....
ponders this
 
You could probably do it with cappuccino.org
 
@JamesGifford ruby-gnome.sourceforge.net/tutorial/x276.html couldn't be more straightforward
 
6:19 PM
you know, thats a decent idea tho, having it use webkit as a backend. so your export is as easy just save->save-as and blam, you have a "note site" ready for publishing.
 
I gotta go do some school stuff. Cya guys.
@StefanoPalazzo ooooh. I love that. I'll bookmark. Thanks!
 
@MarcoCeppi Objective-J?
really?
should I write it using my ipad? :P
 
We went through this earlier wih @OctavianDamiean
It even spawned this tweet
Just found out how to make every programming language suck. Put "Objective-" in front of it. There you go.
 
#Objective Python stacktrace:

in mirrors.opy, line 19:
  def select_best_mirror(mirrors):
Warning: this method appears to be subjective and is likely to be closed
</bad-pun-of-the-day>
 
6:28 PM
can you buy .flac music somewhere? because I can't find any place that sells high quality music... and then they blame me for downloading illegal! LOL
 
@Alvar some authors do that
 
any others? more international?
 
I enjoy explicits! international. Jonatah Coulton is awesome. Give "The future now" a try. Or "Ikea". Or "Code Monkey". Or "Re: Your Brains". Or "Still Alive". ;)
 
@failbadp tsss... it's way to expensive.. insane prices really.. well have to stick to beeing a criminal and just buy the t-shirts...
 
I roll eyes!
 
6:32 PM
+1 :)
 
@Alvar ...it's 0.01$ more than what iTunes charges for lossy mp3's btw
and the "Hear" button gives you the full song, no 30 seconds crap
 
@failbadp well I have never bought anything from itunes, too expensive..
should be like 2€ per album or so, then it's ok...
 
Well, at any rate, you can get FLAC format music; you'll have to hunt a bit for it though.
 
@failbadp it's 30...
hehe... well still... I can't find any of "the Hives" "the Haunted"
well later...
 
@MarcoCeppi that.... is epic
 
6:36 PM
@lazyPower No, it's frail - Objective-J isn't the best, but it's not Perl and you can make some cool things with Cappuccino
 
@MarcoCeppi but usually a bigoted statement is frail in the first place. born out of a fusion of cynicism and ignorance.
@MarcoCeppi hense why its epic, because it appeals to me on a level that i work with every day ;) fighting off the injustice of bigotry in a startup company.
 
update design changes as requested
- disable all icon popout animations
=> unity
boo! i liked the launcher icons popping out
 
@htorque popping out?
 
yeah, if the launcher is hidden
a launcher item claiming attention would pop out by some pixels
 
@htorque what's the replacement?
 
6:40 PM
@htorque that sounds awesome
 
@StefanoPalazzo the replacement is: nothing. :..(
 
thats a bummer
@htorque send back a rebuttle bug that unity needs more cowbell
 
i remember reading that the ubuntu cof in the top-left corner was supposed to change its color
 
The askubuntu lens works again (:
 
6:43 PM
i got to try that next week
i just wait for the early adopters to catch all the bad bugs :P
 
I'd love it if someone could try out the no-google-modification, but it's a little harder to get this one running
 
what does the mod do?
 
doesn't use google :)
 
ha, ok :D
google is evil, so that's good! :P
 
It also has extra whatyoumightcall "features" ;-)
that is, it shows a lot more results and puts them behind an extender triangle thingy
 
6:49 PM
yay extender triangle thingys
ah its true, i have all but checked out
hurray for friday
 
# uptime
 14:47:30 up 1 day,  5:48,  2 users,  load average: 5.32, 5.87, 8.81
# free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           621        441        180          0          8         30
-/+ buffers/cache:        402        219
Swap:            0          0          0
model name      : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           E5430  @ 2.66GHz
Nothing wrong here.
 
load average: 0.00, 0.05, 0.14
my poor cpu
 

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