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1:33 AM
Except tags of course (as stated in the answer to that MSO question)
 
 
6 hours later…
7:16 AM
@DavidZaslavsky Hi David.. Could you come now?
I require some help...
Err.. sorry - never mind :-)
got it now..!
 
 
4 hours later…
user54412
11:11 AM
@CrazyBuddy Poor David is in the same time zone as me (unless his profile is made up), and those of us in the eastern US do sleep occasionally :P
 
user54412
... though as grad students I suppose we're not supposed to
 
@ChrisWhite I'm on the East coast and I pretty much never sleep :)
But that may be the grad student exception
I fled the north east though, I got tired of the cold winters!
 
12:15 PM
@ChrisWhite Hmmm... Err.. Chris - I actually forgot about that..! :-)
@ChrisWhite Ok... Maybe - I'll have to change my sleep-time :-)
All other users are also on the same line - so I'm lucky (Manish either) to see SE sleep the whole day while I get so bored..!
 
On SO at least it's easier to answer questions when the rest of the US is sleeping
Fewer questions are asked, but there's not thirty people trying to answer them at once either
 
 
1 hour later…
1:40 PM
@CrazyBuddy My sleep schedule is pretty random these days, depends on when I have lab work. For example, today I got up at 4 PM (I'd slept at 5AM). But the day before, I'd gotten up at 12.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:59 PM
Hey everyone, it's chat session time again
 
Hopefully a less controversial chat session that the last one :-)
BTW congrats to Qmechanic and manishearth.
 
@JohnRennie It is indeed, so far
 
I voted for both, so I'm pleased :-)
 
I was hoping they'd be here so people could congratulate them in person, but apparently not
I guess "in person" is kind of a fluid concept online anyway
 
sup all
 
4:07 PM
Hi @Chris
 
Hi David
What is the best physics question you have ever heard?
 
uh... I dunno, that would have to depend on how you define "best" :-P
 
most interesting
for instance, in biology I read a question about why are there only 2 sexes, not say 4
i had never thought about that before
 
@chris - if it sort of answers your question, my favourite explanation is why the Big Bang wasn't an explosion happening at a point.
 
why isn't it?
 
4:10 PM
@Chris Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :-)
4
A: Does the ending of Tau Zero make sense?

John RennieNote that as you accelerate a spaceship towards the speed of light you will blue shift the microwave radiation and increase it's temperature. Eventually you'll roast the ship and all aboard! This is actually happening for the Earth (well, not the roasting bit) as the microwave background is sligh...

 
@Chris actually that is a tough question, there's no single one that comes to mind
 
that's an interesting question john
 
I do rather like the one about why a mirror reverses left-right instead of up-down, but I don't know if I'd call it my favorite
 
explanation*
so john, does this mean as time gets closer and closer to 0, the universe was infinite in size, and density
 
@Chris ... of the mirror question?
 
4:15 PM
115
Q: A mirror flips left and right, but not up and down

ArlenWhy is it that when you look in the mirror left and right directions appear flipped, but not the up and down?

in case you were interested
 
@DavidZaslavsky the first good explanation I saw of this was written by Richard Feynmann!
 
let's say there is a star every unit of distance, then as time gets closer to 0 (big bang), these stars get closer and closer until they are touching. So when t is very close to 0, all of the stars are pretty much touching. So this means we have an infinite universe of enourmous density
 
at every point in the infinite universe, the universe's density approaches infinite
wowwowawo
 
@Chris We don't know if the universe is infinite in size, but assuming that it is, it remained infinite down to and including the Big Bang, at which point the density was infinite.
 
4:17 PM
@JohnRennie I think a lot of good explanations can be traced back to Feynman
 
wow
yeah know the mirror question
i never could see the "problem" though
 
@Chris But we expect some theory of quantum gravity to jump in and stop the density reaching infinity. No-one knows how this will happen.
 
yeah that's probably right john, but just the idea of an infinite universe with such a large density everywhere is definitely not how i immagined the big bang
Hang on a minute
Let's imagine a balloon
 
@Chris You and the rest of the non-physics nerd world, which is why it's a good explanation - it blows people's minds :-)
 
a 2D universe on the surface of a balloon
 
4:19 PM
hi @AlanSE
 
perhaps the universe is like a balloon
and at the big bang, the baloon was a point
 
I just noticed the festive animation when people leave the chat room!
 
and as time progressed, the balloon increased in volume, and thus the "2D suface universe" appears to be expanding equally from every point
 
Very nice, though I notice nothing special happens when they arrive.
 
so while there is no "point" on the 2D universe where the big bang began, the universe embedded in the immaginary 3D space, began as a point
i hope i am conveying my idea properly
 
4:22 PM
@Chris sounds about right
 
@Chris the balloon analogy only works for a finite universe with positive curvature. The curvature of our universe has been measured to the flat to within 2% i.e. the critical density is 1.02 +/- 0.02
 
well, actually...
the real universe is not embedded in anything
 
@DavidZaslavsky unless of course we are a brane world ...
 
@JohnRennie ok true :-P
 
If the universe has a curvature, our universe must be embedded in a higher dimension no?
 
4:23 PM
@Chris nope
 
@Chris No, no, no, no, no
 
just like ants living on a 2D balloon feel a 2D world, but it is secretly embedded in a 3D world
 
Google "intrinsic curvature"
2
A: The radius of the universe and time

John RennieThe universe isn't expanding through a fourth spatial dimension. It's common to visualise a curved manifold by embedding it onto a space of one higher dimension, but this is a purely mathematical operation to make it easier for our 3D brains to grasp. There is no sense in which the universe aroun...

 
ah, but even the baloon example is an intrinsic curvature
because the ants can go around the whole balloon and come back to where they start. So they can deduce the "curvature" without external observer
but never the less, the balooon is still embedded in 3D space
 
The balloon metaphor mathematically embeds the universe into a higher dimension to make it easier to visualise.
 
4:26 PM
Note I was looking at wolframs definition: A curvature such as Gaussian curvature which is detectable to the "inhabitants" of a surface and not just outside observers. An extrinsic curvature, on the other hand, is not detectable to someone who can't study the three-dimensional space surrounding the surface on which he resides.
 
But this is a mathematical operation and not how (we think) the universe actually works
 
you never know, our universe could be embedded in a higher dimensional space
 
@AlanSE true, embedding is possible, but it's not essential for GR to work
 
@Chris The point is that you don't need the space to be embedded in anything to detect the intrinsic curvature.
 
yep i see
 
4:28 PM
@Chris extrinsic curvature can be detected by inhabitants of the embedded universe. For example two ants on the balloon could set off walking in parallel straight lines and they would find their paths converged.
 
The greater question is what is the most elegant framework to describe GR and everything else in the universe. It's true, thinking of curvature as going into the next dimension gets you squat
 
things make more sense when i think in terms of it being embedded, but perhaps it's just too hard to visualise the alternative
 
I was always amazed by the fact that 4D spacetime (if you just think of particle paths) isn't even congruent to different observers
 
but your question that you linked to made me think about the big bang again
 
i mean it's not geometrically congruent
 
4:29 PM
you mention the universe has a radius
of 13 or so billion light years or something
based on the time since the big bang
but if the universe was infinite at the time of the big bang
then this radius is a radius for each opint of the universe, which determines how much of the rest of the universe it can interact with
 
@Chris that's not really a radius, it's just the size of the observable patch in the universe
 
yep right
 
@Chris an alien 13 billion light years away also sees a 13.7 billion light year patch, but this only partially overlaps with our patch
 
somehow, people claim to have defined the observable size of the universe up to the big bang (in comoving cords), which I just don't understand at all
 
yeah
actually i take back my last statement
we can interact with the entire universe
 
4:31 PM
because we see up to the CMB, and before that it was "opaque", which doesn't mean there wasn't interaction, it was just thermalized, reabsorbed, etc
 
So... quick interjection: there is one thing I wanted to bring up
 
if we increase our speed enough, length will contract and time will dilate enough so that we can reach any point in the universe
 
nope
 
a photon for instance sees all things compressed to a plane
so a photon effectively covers the whole universe in an instant
relative to the photon
 
a plane that only extends to the cosmological horizon
 
4:32 PM
@Chris sadly, if dark energy really exists then there are parts of the universe we will never be able to see even in principle.
@DavidZaslavsky yes ...
 
but is it really "sad"?
 
Alan, I can reach a point that is 100 light years away in just 1 year, relative to my own clock
 
no you can't
 
yes
 
if you're a photon you can reach something like maybe 20 billion light years, you can get there instantly, and you can go no further
 
4:34 PM
Because as I approach the speed of light, time for me slows down, and that 100 light years gets compressed due to length contraction
 
I had been saying I was planning on leaving the site, and the reason was that our community had become too unfriendly and too tolerant of rude behavior. After the election, that seems like it may have changed, and if that's the case, my initial reason for leaving is no more. So I wanted to get a sense of whether the current community really wants to require civility.
and if so, if I should stick around.
and I have to log off for a few minutes but I'll be back
 
ok
can someone tell Alan I am right
Let's say I travel at 0.999c
 
I can't. This whole conversation is way beyond me :)
 
Let's say 0.9999c
let's calculate gamma
 
those are some heavy concerns David! Maybe most of us don't see the really hostile events so we aren't aware.
@Chris it's asymptotic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Event-horizon-particle.svg
 
4:37 PM
gamma = 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) = 1/sqrt(1 - 0.9999^2) = 70.71
 
You can outrun a beam of light if you accelerate forever
 
i'm not talking about acceleration
you can't exceed the speed of light
i'm not saying you can
 
normally accelerating until the end of eternity isn't practical, but the universe uses dark energy, so it's allowed to do this
 
but your clock will slow down
so an external observer on earth will think it takes you millions of years to reach the point
 
@Chris dark energy causes distant parts of the universe to accelerate away from us. Go far enough and the acceleration gets so great that even light can't keep up.
 
4:37 PM
but from your perspective in the rocket, it can take just a few minutes
 
This isn't too different from what happens at the event horizon of a black hole
 
but the time taken (according to Earth) for you to get to far away points diverges to infinity at a finite location, beyond that you can't reach even going to t=infinity
 
alan, are you refering to expansion of the universe, or just special relativity?
 
this requires expansion
 
if there were no expansion i'm right you agree?
 
4:39 PM
...and acceleration, but it's complicated
but Hubble's law would break down
you would have to correct Hubble's law for special relativity
if you did that, THEN I will agree with you
because Hubble's Law would say that the maximum speed of a distant galaxy is still under c, light travels at c, QED
 
John, what do you mean acceleration gets so great?
I thought that acceleration was proportional to the distance from where youa re?
 
This is all getting a bit confused. I don't think the chat format makes it easy to discuss this sort of thing. Really you need to look back through the site for answers that go into it.
 
you're right Chris, acceleration is greater for things further away
 
If you can travel fast enough, those distance objects become much closer
thanks to length contraction
their acceleration away from you will thus reduce
 
but then the acceleration gets greater probably
 
4:42 PM
Chat can sometimes inspire a good question toask on the main ssite
 
you contract length, but you're ignoring the other quantities you also have to correct
 
@Chris remember that time dilates at the same rate length contracts. To contract lengths to zero requires infinite time.
 
If the distance halves, the time taken to traverse a certain distance halves
 
@DavidZaslavsky Aha, you're back. For the record I believe good humour to be the key element in any site where arguments can emerge.
There are bound to be debates about who's right, because we aren't experts in everything and some of the questions are pretty deep.
The key point is not to let debate get personal.
 
@John a good point... I guess the people who would have outspoken opinions on this aren't here anyway
 
4:46 PM
I agree the community can be unfriendly on stack exchange david
especially fitness stack exchange
 
And to be fair my experience is that it rarely does. Only on a couple of occasions have I been personally criticised, and since the critic subsequently went quiet I suspect they knew they'd overstepped the mark.
 
I posted some genuine questions that get grilled instantly by wanna be moderators. In particular one question, then a higher rep guy said my questionw as great, and the wanna be moderators all changed their minds. My question now has 11 up votes
that was on fitness stack
 
@Chris has it happened on the Physics SE?
 
physics has been one of the better ones
lemme check my questions
oh yeah this question
0
Q: An accelerating and shrinking train in special relativity

ChrisSuppose when a train is at rest, it has a length of $L$. Let the position of the back of the train at any time be $A$, and let the position of the front of the train at any time be $B$. Now assume a stationary observer on the Earth, O, observes point $A$ to be accelerating at a constant rate, ...

 
@Chris you're lucky ;-)
 
4:49 PM
someone replied and critizised it a bit, but then they deleted their comments and honestly said they misinterpreted the quesiton at first
so at least they were honest
 
@Chris Eek, I just checked your questiomn and that was me!
 
yah
thought so
but at least you acknowledged it
 
But all I said was I thought it looked like a homework question.
 
yeah
that's right
i coudlnt'really remember what was said
but that's what iw as annoyed about
cos it wasn't lol
 
We get lots of students trying to get us to do their homework, and it's not always easy to tell what is valid and what isn't.
 
4:52 PM
yeah
 
I'll undelete my answer if you want to go back and look again at it
 
actually i also didn't understand the homework tag at the time
now i know that homework doesn't necessary mean, school/uni work
yeah why not
Isee you were the one who answered my bouncing ball question too
0
Q: Bouncing Ball Pattern

ChrisIf a ball is simply dropped, each time a ball bounces, it's height decreases in what appears to be an exponential rate. Let's suppose that the ball is thrown horizontally instead of being simply dropped. How does the horizontal distance travelled change after each bounce? Context behind ques...

that was a good explanation
how ti rolls after it the ïnfinite" bounces
@tpg2114 Hello
 
@Chris Hi
 
do you play poker tpg
 
All of which is getting away from the question of whether the site is a basically friendly place.
 
4:57 PM
oK I'm back for real now
@JohnRennie maybe I'd be better off bringing that up on meta
 
Online? No
 
I feel bad about derailing a perfectly good physics discussion
 
The trouble is that the chats are always lightly attended, and the attendees tend to be the usual culprits.
 
@DavidZaslavsky I think it's hard to have a conversation on meta though
 
i think this site, and all stack exchange sites, should be more leniant to first time members
 
4:58 PM
yeah
 
Meta would probably get a bigger audience
 
that is true
@Chris any specific suggestions for how to do that are always welcome
 
these sites are stricter than most online forums, and new members get confused when what they think are good questions get grilled and downvoted instantly
 
maybe even a meta question about how we can be more lenient to new members
 
I agree people are a bit too keen to downvote
I'm unconvinced that downvoting ever achieves much
 
4:59 PM
I think instead of downvoting and deleting first time questions instantly
suggest how questions can be changed
with no downvotes and close votes
 
@Chris we pretty much never do that
 
my first question on fitness was closed instantly
which was a valid question, but it didn't fit their subjective guidlines
 
@Chris well yess, but that's FitnessSE not PhysicsSE
 
yeah
 
ah, well the issue is that closing is how you indicate that a question should be improved.
 
5:01 PM
yes
but closing is an insualt to new members, who think closing = deleting
 
ok, well, that's the end of our scheduled chat session and I have to go to another meeting
but feel free to continue this discussion, it's a good one to have
 
perhpas physics is better to new members
but that was just my experience in fitness. so if it happens in physics it should stop, but otherwise i
it's all good
 
Me too. Bye all. I will mnake a mental note to be extra careful when i see questions from new members.
 
laterz David
 
 
1 hour later…
6:04 PM
@JohnRennie Thanks :) I had full intentions of attending this chat session, but something cropped up at the last moment so I had to leave :/
@Chris This is why, whenever a question is salvageable but closed, I comment "If you can do XYZ, I'll reopen it blah blah"
 
Me too
 
Hi, John, and welcome to Physics Stack Exchange! Please see our homework policy. We expect homework problems to have some effort put into them, and deal with conceptual issues. If you edit your question to explain (1) What you have tried, (2) the concept you have trouble with, and (3) your level of understanding, I'll be happy to reopen this. (Flag this message for ♦ attention with a custom message, or reply to me in the comments with @Manishearth to notify me) — Manishearth yesterday
^^Eg that
(that's one of my boilerplates)
 
@Chris you could argue that it should be called something other than "closing," and that has been brought up on MSO, but bottom line is that it is not an insult
 
@Chris Also, when there are OT/NC questions, I ask them to feel free to ask in chat:
Please see our homework policy. This is really a calculus question, with no chemistry concept involved. Additionally, you haven't shown your own attempt at it. I'm closing it as off topic, feel free to ask it in Stack Exchange Api V2 Chat, though . — Manishearth Dec 7 at 12:39
@DarenW well, we generally don't allow open-ended questions, especially questions which can have a host of different answers (like this one--there probably are hundreds of good textbooks that qualify). I'll close it for now, if you edit it into a much more specific question, I'll be happy to reopen. Otherwise, you may ask this question on Stack Exchange Api V2 Chat. — Manishearth Sep 21 at 4:14
For some reason the link title says "SE API V2", that's a bug
 
 
2 hours later…
7:52 PM
Interesting random fact: we have about as many questions per day as Arqade (gaming.SE) despite having a tenth of the traffic.
 
@DavidZaslavsky Yay physics! :)
 
@DavidZaslavsky interesting. Probably more people googling for how to get past a level in a game.
 
People like talking about really old games on Arqade
 
@Kortuk lol
but true
 
What about answers/question?
The stats are on SE.com, right? /checks
 
7:53 PM
not sure, I don't think the network main page tracks that statistic
 
It's probably just due to the wider audience
 
At the end of the beta physics was at 2.8 and gaming was at 2.3
But I don't know if they keep tracking it after the end of beta
 
3 mins ago, by Manishearth
@DavidZaslavsky Yay physics! :)
 
Actually at some point we were one of only two sites to have exited beta with "excellent" ratings on all 5 statistics
 
8:11 PM
@DavidZaslavsky wow :O, Chem has sucky stats atm
 
8:22 PM
meh, that happens in beta
 
8:58 PM
@DavidZaslavsky I thought we were also :)
 
9:12 PM
@Kortuk You guys cheated
You weren't a true-blue SE 2.0 beta
 
@Manishearth Yes, Yes we did.
 
@Manishearth It is how we got such a big site started, but it made some things confusing.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:07 PM
0
Q: Replying to a specific person's comment

PhHEPI checked the FAQs to look for an answer without any luck. Forgive me if it is there and I overlooked it. I recently asked a question with the title: Causality in a gedanken experiment on the hydrogen atom, and John Rennie commented on it. In my response I simply put his name in the text. I mean ...

 
11:46 PM
@DavidZaslavsky I have just read the chat session and your preconditions for sticking around confuse me. I got the impression that you'd like to exchange the crew of members that was here (long ago) before the elections and contributed interesting and high level stuff against new more polite users. This seems exactly what has happend at the expence of the level of the content of the site. Things look still mostly homeworky to me,
and the few people who ask higher level advanced questions, such as Luscher, RamanujanDirac (or how he is called), and others interested in similar things have troubles getting good answers.
 
@Nemo well, I never really got to finish making that point, which is why you are confused
but now that you've brought it up: my precondition for sticking around is basically that the community does not tolerate or encourage rudeness.
it doesn't matter whether the community is made of the same people from before and they change their behavior, or whether it is mostly new people
it doesn't matter whether they ask high or low level questions
On a separate point, perhaps at this moment (i.e. the last couple of hours) there are a few more homework-like questions than usual. But in general, I still do not agree at all with your assessment that the level of content of the site has dropped.
 
So you are really willing to sacrifice the nice good high level content we had before the election to achieve a site that has more polite conversations? Would you really be happy with just a homework level site as long as strict politeness is ensured?
Look at Luscher's question and similar questions, they are hardly getting answered now.
 
I'll say this: I am willing to participate in a site where rudeness is not tolerated, whether or not that site has high-level questions. I'm not willing to participate in a site where rudeness (of the sort we have seen here) is tolerated, whether or not that site has high-level questions.
It's always been the case that high-level specialized questions were less likely to receive answers.
 

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