The Bridge

@fbueckert I'm just addressing your statement that it wasn't acceptable before hand. Either way, not going to get into an argument over something in the past which is no longer an issue.

pixel

@fbueckert YOU ARE MEAN AND HAVE NO HEART! sadface

Wipqozn

No point in that really.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice He went, "My question here got answered by saying low settings use the CPU more. What can I do to lower CPU usage?"

Without actually, y'know, LOOKING for stuff that would do so, or testing it himself.

If that's not the exact reason for, "Shows no research effort", I don't know what is.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert I wouldn't know which settings to use either man, I wouldn't even know how to tell if the CPU was being used less or more between changes.

pixel

@fbueckert some people are not that technically minded that they'd know what to look for

fbueckert

4:03 PM

@pixel The point is in that they don't have to know everything.

They point is they have to try.

GnomeSlice

Just because something is obvious to you does not mean the asker didn't try.

@fbueckert I wouldn't even know how to tell if the CPU was under more or less load between changes.

pixel

@fbueckert how would a user that is not that technically minded even begin to isolate settings that would improve game performance by lowering the load on CPU?

Wipqozn

Everyone has a different threshold for "not enough research." Getting into argument over it is pointless. If you think it's fine, up vote it. Up votes are worth more than down votes. always have been, and always will.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice If they tried, they didn't add it into their question.

In which case, they deserve the downvotes for not showing effort.

pixel

@Wipqozn My point is not so much about thresholds, some people just assume everybody should know what they know, and not knowing is in itself apparently a good enough reason to downvote

fbueckert

4:05 PM

Most often, we don't get the context behind them, and that's critical for tech support. Note the difference between, "This isn't working. How do I fix?" and "This isn't working, I've tried X, Y, Z, and it didn't work. Any ideas?" They could be the same problem, but by listing what you have and haven't tried, it saves effort trying to fix the problem. Tech support should (ideally) be carried out in the comments until you come to the root of the problem, and then you can post an answer that resolves the issue, without all the back and forth of the tech support itself. — fbueckert Nov 23 at 15:46

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Can you explain to me how "I tried messing with some of the settings but I don't know if they were helping or not" would add to the question "What settings do I need to change"?

fbueckert

Tech support, but applicable.

pixel

@fbueckert @Wipqozn He looked through his graphics settings, probably got scared by all the acronyms and then ASKED FOR HELP, only to get kicked in the nuts with your one liner "this is bordering on too localized!", which is NOT a helpful statement, and should have been deleted because it added nothing to the question.

Wipqozn

@pixel That's not what @fbueckert is saying. He's saying that the user should have taken some time to look into an answer himself, which he hasn't appear to have done.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert There's plenty of context. He wants to know which settings can be changed to improve CPU performance...

fbueckert

4:06 PM

@pixel I saw it as, "All these settings! Screw it, I can't be bothered to figure it out." asks question.

@GnomeSlice Context for effort.

Wipqozn

@pixel Why are you pinging me? I didn't say the question should be down voted. I think the question is perfectly fine.

pixel

@fbueckert that's because you're of the opinion that everybody knows what those settings mean, not everybody does

fbueckert

There is no effort shown in that.

pixel

@Wipqozn it was the relevant to the next line you said

fbueckert

@pixel No, I expect them to GOOGLE the damn acronyms.

GnomeSlice

4:07 PM

1 min ago, by GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Can you explain to me how "I tried messing with some of the settings but I don't know if they were helping or not" would add to the question "What settings do I need to change"?

I still don't see why that's relevant information.

pixel

@fbueckert not everybody is proficient at googling either

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice If he HAD messed with the settings, he'd at least have, "this setting slowed down my computer, so I should turn it off".

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Oh, so we're only allowed to ask here about things you don't know, for everything else we have to use Google?

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice You're missing the point.

You're BOTH missing the point.

pixel

@fbueckert this seems like the point you're making to be fair

GnomeSlice

4:08 PM

@fbueckert Enlighten us, because this is what I'm getting out of it currently.

fbueckert

NO effort was shown in the making of that question, other than screenshotting the pictures.

THAT is what I expect from users.

To at least try to help themselves.

GnomeSlice

I don't really want to repost it AGAIN but:

4 mins ago, by GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Can you explain to me how "I tried messing with some of the settings but I don't know if they were helping or not" would add to the question "What settings do I need to change"?

How does that add anything useful to the question?

pixel

@fbueckert You're suggesting that everybody should have the technical background to be able to troubleshoot performance issues? Or else they should get off the internet?

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice It would show he at least tried something.

1 min ago, by fbueckert

To at least try to help themselves.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Who cares? All that says is 'I tried shit and didn't know what I was doing so now I'm asking' instead of 'I'm asking because I don't know instead of trying first and risking fucking up my PC'.

pixel

4:11 PM

@fbueckert The user tried to help themselves by asking a question on a Q&A website

fbueckert

@pixel We're not a catch-all for every question on the internet.

The FAQ says "Do your freaking homework"

There was no homework.

/discussion

pixel

@fbueckert The way you're wording your argument is everybody should have tried everything before asking their questions, so that you can whine about how it's an unanswerable question and therefore should be closed!

fbueckert

I can't believe you guys are so anal about downvote thresholds.

Whatever.

My downvote threshold is lower than yours.

pixel

@fbueckert I think you have the highest upvote:downvote ratio of anybody on any stackexchange website

@fbueckert It's nearly 1:1

fbueckert

@pixel I sincerely doubt that.

pixel

4:13 PM

@fbueckert Therefore, you're statistically the one with the problem

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert So if he adds 'I tried some stuff but don't know what it did' to his question, it becomes acceptable?

Because that's just stupid, I'm sorry...

fbueckert

I'm done with this.

You guys obviously don't agree, and I'm not going to explain any more.

pixel

@fbueckert oh, obviously...

GnomeSlice

Hm, I wonder if I should buy the Humble THQ Bundle.

@pixel I think it's pretty clear we disagree with him.

Krazer

lol @ the first and second Wii-U prototypes.

pixel

4:14 PM

@GnomeSlice I think @LessPop_MoreFizz's wording was "you would have to be a communist or crazy not to"

Wipqozn

@fbueckert I'm surprised you argued with them for as long as you did.

GnomeSlice

@pixel Yeah, but I'll never be able to download any of them anyway. I can buy SR3 for Xbox 360 if I want it (albeit, for a lot more money).

fbueckert

@Wipqozn I don't mind a good knock down drag out argument.

pixel

@GnomeSlice exactly, a lot more money, there is nothing wrong with waiting for a week to download it... Steam will manage it

GnomeSlice

@Krazer That second one is actually pretty neat.

pixel

4:15 PM

@fbueckert you do have an admirable level of persistence

Wipqozn

This entire argument should have gone like this: "I don't think this question showed enough research effort because X". "I disagree because Y". "Oh, very well then. Carry on." "Same to you ol' chap!"

pixel

@fbueckert I can see why you expect others to have thicker skin

Wipqozn

For the record that's how 90% of vote arguments should go.

Krazer

@GnomeSlice It's very high-tech, it's a monitor and controllers stuck together by double-sided tape xD

Wipqozn

Also, FFTA2, why are you so gooooooooooooooooooooooooood

I can't stop playing

fbueckert

4:16 PM

@Wipqozn I'd say 100%, actually.

pixel

@Wipqozn I am still smiling, didn't get angry or anything, I hope neither of the other two did because ultimately, it was just a lengthy discussion

fbueckert

@pixel Nope, not at all angry.

Krazer

@Wipqozn Why have you just started playing?!

fbueckert

Hell, I get voted into oblivion on the stupid SC2 question for defending my close vote.

That'll teach me to do so again.

pixel

@fbueckert link?

GnomeSlice

4:17 PM

@Krazer Well, it's a prototype, they aren't going to build anything fancy until they have a design in mind.

Wipqozn

@Krazer I haven't just started. I owned the game, I just felt like replaying it. Although I never did finish it the first time.

pixel

@fbueckert I am not unreasonable, I'm not disagreeing with you just because I can... if something should be obviously closed I will VTC it, but if its in a grey area then I generally give it the benefit of the doubt is all

Krazer

@Wipqozn I got 50 hours into the game before I realized what the Smash Gauge did.

fbueckert

@pixel Nah, it's not worth it.

pixel

@fbueckert I don't assume that everybody is technically competent, just imagine if your mother was having the same problem, would you explode at her and tell her to stop asking you questions until she's spent time doing research on acronyms and how they affect stuff?

@fbueckert oh ok, I just wanted to read through for reference

Krazer

4:19 PM

I was sad that I couldn't steal weapons, armor, and abilities in this game.

fbueckert

Mark disagreed with me, disregarded my opinions entirely, and as usual, his ad hominem arguments won because he had more rep.

@pixel My mother wouldn't post on Arqade.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert You're an ad hominem.

Fluttershy

@Wipqozn FotM upscales, doesn't it? You guys could always do that.

fbueckert

There are differing levels of tolerance for the platform of the question.

Krazer

@GnomeSlice It's sorta funny when you think how simple the design was.

GnomeSlice

4:20 PM

@fbueckert Every time I say there are tons of ad hominem arguments on the site people tell me I'm imagining it.

Gnoupi

@fbueckert Just popping here to say that: This attitude is the best way to end up with a ghost site, on which no one comes. A site which has to be artificially kept alive by the small number of regulars injecting questions and answers.

pixel

@fbueckert others might though

SaintWacko

Oh, where do you download NEO Scavenger?

OrigamiRobot

I just want to say: beep boop I love you all.

SaintWacko

I want to update mine

GnomeSlice

4:20 PM

@SaintWacko Desura

SaintWacko

but I can't remember where I got it

@GnomeSlice Then how do I have it installed on my flash drive?

fbueckert

@Gnoupi I like my signal to noise ratio, thank you.

Wipqozn

@Fluttershy I have no idea. I haven't done that yet. In fact, I've barely played at all lately. Too busy killing Orcs, stealthing it up, and beating up moogles.

SaintWacko

I got a standalone somewhere

Gnoupi

In short, cut some slack to new people. Elitism is wrong.

2

GnomeSlice

4:21 PM

@SaintWacko bluebottlegames.com/main/node/21 Maybe?

pixel

@Gnoupi oh no, I agree we're not a catch all, some questions shouldn't be on here, but resisting against a question on the grounds that they should be technically competent before asking it is wrong

fbueckert

@pixel I'm amused you equate a downvote with exploding and yelling at people.

OrigamiRobot

Let's all be friends!

fbueckert

@Gnoupi Nope. I treat all users the same.

pixel

@fbueckert it was more the 'this is too localized' randomness

Fluttershy

4:21 PM

@Wipqozn I'm like 95% sure the Fractals upscale, putting everyone at 80.

GnomeSlice

@SaintWacko Oh uh... it came with a bundle, right?

SaintWacko

@GnomeSlice Oh yeah, that's right!

GnomeSlice

@SaintWacko bluebottlegames.com/main/node/945 Looks like the Groupees 'Be Mine 5' bundle

Powerlord

@OrigamiRobot I half expected Fluttershy to post a MLPFIM video when I saw that blue text

GnomeSlice

So you can still get it, as long as you were logged in when you bought it.

Gnoupi

4:22 PM

@fbueckert Keep going with this attitude, and you will get a great noise ratio: no noise at all, no signal either.

SaintWacko

@GnomeSlice Thanks, downloading now!

fbueckert

@Gnoupi I've already had this discussion.

SaintWacko

Hopefully they have the latest version there

fbueckert

For the last time, I didn't even VTC it.

Gnoupi

@fbueckert i'm talking about your comment

Fluttershy

4:23 PM

Oh! Were we arguing? ... I'm sorry...

pixel

@fbueckert you voted to close me though! hides

fbueckert

If TWO comments makes him pack up and leave, he needs thicker skin.

pixel

@Fluttershy heated discussion :P

fbueckert

@pixel And I thought about it lots before I did so.

Gnoupi

@fbueckert anyway, avoid that kind of attitude. You don't have the traffic to justify elitism

pixel

4:24 PM

@fbueckert are you not at all open to the possibility that maybe Mark was right?

Fluttershy

Who packed up and left because what now?

pixel

@Fluttershy some new user with a performance issue

Wipqozn

@Gnoupi Your logical fallacy is: Black or white!

fbueckert

@pixel Sorta hard to tell when he disregards the arguments entirely.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert If I just found a cool looking gaming community and my first interactions with the users were negative, I'd probably leave too.

There's tons of gaming communities out there.

fbueckert

4:25 PM

@GnomeSlice His first interactions was a good question.

pixel

@fbueckert did you not consider that maybe your arguments were irrelevant?

Wipqozn

@Gnoupi In other words not allowing everything !== allowing nothing.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert 'interaction with users', not 'first post'.

fbueckert

@pixel Hard to tell when they're not addressed.

Wipqozn

Allowing everything would make us Yahoo Answers. The day we have the same standards as Yahoo Answers is the day I delete my account and never visit the site again.

GnomeSlice

4:26 PM

And besides, I don't mean 'first one and only first one'

fbueckert

Anyways, that was a running attitude with my arguments with him.

Arda Xi

@Wipqozn Are you implying there's anything wrong with doing that?

pixel

@fbueckert if I had started arguing about cake in the middle our discussion, you would have disregarded that was irrelevant, are you sure he wasn't doing the same ?

Gnoupi

@Wipqozn please, I had that kind of arguments already on SU in 2009, I won't start that again

fbueckert

I'd point out a problem, he'd go, "You're wrong, so your opinion doesn't matter, and that means I'm right", and he'd stubbornly stick to that.

So I'm actually glad he's gone.

Gnoupi

4:26 PM

of course it's not about allowing anything, but at least be nice to newbies who seem to make an effort

pixel

@fbueckert wow...

Wipqozn

@Gnoupi but... @fbueckert said we shouldn't allow everything... and you said he was wrong...

Gnoupi

No, I said his attitude was wrong

pixel

I liked Mark a lot, I was always wrong too in his eyes, but at least when I read what he said it was obvious he was making more sense than I was...

fbueckert

@Gnoupi They have to be held to the same standard as other users.

Wipqozn

4:27 PM

I need to grab that moving the goalpost page now...

fbueckert

We don't relax our criteria because, "Oh, he's new. Let him ask his unacceptable question."

Gnoupi

@fbueckert When you are on SE sites that long, you don't realize it's a quite draconian setting compared to other sites. It can take a moment to adapt to it

pixel

@fbueckert I think they should be given more leeway but gently pushed in the right direction, you can't brickwall somebody who doesn't know better because they couldn't care less

Gnoupi

@fbueckert no, you help, you fix the question, you explain what is wrong, and how to fix it

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Exactly. We should certainly take more time to explain and help new users, but we shouldn't let their questions pass.

Gnoupi

4:28 PM

Ok, glad we're all saying the same thing, then

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert You also don't go looking for unacceptable questions because someone is new.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice Well, duh.

Gnoupi

That said, I'm off

pixel

Treating them like a 10k user who should know better is wrong, because they don't know better, they haven't a clue, you need to be nice and wordy with them, and friendly

Wipqozn

Also, just for the record, I do agree that your comment on that question wasn't that constructive @fbueckert. Since you didn't expand on it to explain why until he asked, I don't think it really helped.

pixel

4:29 PM

If say Sean, or Decency raised a question like that, then they should know better

but the person you went after hadn't a clue why you were being so short with him/her

Gnoupi

Just remember that while Arqade attracts a steady amount of traffic, the amount of active users is quite low. Welcoming people is an attitude to take

fbueckert

30 mins ago, by fbueckert

@Wipqozn Eating breakfast, was lazy.

Wipqozn

@ArdaXi This site would be nothing without me. Nothing.

pixel

If I raise an obviously shit question, come at me... I can take it

Arda Xi

@Wipqozn This is less correct than Zeus had intended it to be.

pixel

4:30 PM

@fbueckert That is a weak excuse

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Yeah, I know. Just wanted to throw in my 2-cents. Don't worry, I'm not going to waste your time with a pointless argument for 30 minutes :P

fbueckert

@pixel Whatever. I'm done explaining it over and over.

Wipqozn

@ArdaXi ...zeus damn it.

pixel

@fbueckert Whatever, I'm done being at work and going home :P much love <3

I dont like you any less because you scared a newbie away

fbueckert

@Gnoupi Nope. If they can't take the same amount of criticism as everybody else, then they can grow thicker skin.

OrigamiRobot

4:31 PM

@pixel Everyone was wrong in the eyes of that sweet, sweet angel.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert This must be what it's like to argue with me.

Wipqozn

@pixel I do. I'll hate @fbueckert forever now. Even if he is classy as fuck.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice No, you just don't understand.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Well, now you're just being unreasonable...

OrigamiRobot

@Wipqozn CLASSIER THAN ME?!?!?!

pixel

4:32 PM

@Wipqozn hey we're talking about a guy who can dance, I could never hate that

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Yes, that's pretty much how I feel when I argue. I repeat myself again and again and nobody understands.

pixel

BYE NOW

fbueckert

I'm pointing out I have standards. Which is why I'm here, and not Yahoo Answers, or GameFAQs.

Wipqozn

@OrigamiRobot Oh my no. He's still super classy though.

Powerlord

Clearly, Arqade is now Bureaucracy: The Game!

OrigamiRobot

4:32 PM

OK then.

Arda Xi

@Powerlord Now?

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice You're still here. Obviously you can take it.

If you can't, Arqade's not for you, because we DO argue each and every thing to death.

Arda Xi

I started that!

Wipqozn

@fbueckert That's the best part of Arqade!

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Well, @magnetica had standards too, which is why he's no longer here and he's probably at Yahoo answers or GameFAQS.

Wipqozn

4:33 PM

@ArdaXi and that's why we love you <3

Plus you're just so gosh darn adorable in that suit of yours.

Arda Xi

I was arguing each and every thing to death before you even knew SE had a Gaming site.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice And his standards are basically, "Somebody disagrees with me!? Fine! I'm taking my ball and leaving!"

Arda Xi

Chat is the best thing that ever happened to this site.

Wipqozn

Sep 17 '11 at 15:46, by Mana

When I look at my wife, I will remember Arda in his suit and feel so very disappointed.

Arda Xi

<3

fbueckert

4:35 PM

@Wipqozn That's creepy as hell.

Arda Xi

@fbueckert =[

Wipqozn

@ArdaXi FINE, JEEZ (@GnomeSlice feel free to supply me with the relevant MGS gif)

Arda Xi

Nooo

Wipqozn

Not creepy anymore now, is it?

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert 'These people aren't very nice, I'm taking my ball and leaving' *

Arda Xi

4:36 PM

That's a horrible picture, and a horrible suit.

GnomeSlice

@ArdaXi hehe, did it surprise you?

Arda Xi

@Wipqozn If you absolutely must post a picture of me, have it be this one.

badp

@ArdaXi btw did you get in yesterday?

I for one am about to reboot to my copy of Ubuntu

Wipqozn

@ArdaXi This is what angels would look like if they were real (and not weeping).

OrigamiRobot

@ArdaXi Do not let @Wipqozn sway you. Be strong to the cause! Stand firm, fellow robotian.

Arda Xi

4:38 PM

@badp Ah, yes. I don't have a Ubuntu install, so I'll try how it fares on Arch.

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn Don't have it here, and it's hard to find the animated one.

Arda Xi

@OrigamiRobot But... compliments.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice To be fair, his wording could have been better, but he wasn't mean.

OrigamiRobot

@ArdaXi Not even one as evil as @Wipqozn can deny the truth. It does not make him any less evil.

Arda Xi

Powerlord

4:39 PM

*eyes his Sapper*
*eyes OrigamiRobot*

.oO(I hate MarkDown)

GnomeSlice

@Wipqozn I didn't say he was mean, but he didn't offer any help.

Wipqozn

I'm going to make a grilled cheese sandwich.

4 mins ago, by GnomeSlice

@fbueckert 'These people aren't very nice, I'm taking my ball and leaving' *

OrigamiRobot

Nov 8 at 16:02, by OrigamiRobot

I don't even run on electricity!

Wipqozn

eh, I suppose you technically didn't, @GnomeSlice

Anyways. I'm going to make a grilled cheese sandwich.

OrigamiRobot

Nov 8 at 16:03, by OrigamiRobot

Oct 30 at 16:50, by OrigamiRobot

@desaivv I run on stars and @Wipqozn's despair.

Wipqozn

4:41 PM

And you guys are not getting a swoosh because you've all been bad little boys and girls. All of you.

Arda Xi

=[

OrigamiRobot

So if you want to shut me down, either make @Wipqozn happy or stop saying starrable things.

badp

@Wipqozn \o/

fbueckert

@Wipqozn FINE! We don't need a swoosh anyways!

@GnomeSlice Remember, we're all volunteers here.

Arda Xi

@OrigamiRobot Neither goal seems very attainable.

fbueckert

4:44 PM

There's no requirement for any of us to do anything but follow site rules.

OrigamiRobot

@ArdaXi And thus I will run forever.

Arda Xi

@OrigamiRobot Oh g-- I mean, yay! It's a good life!

fbueckert

@ArdaXi Aww. You fixed the typo before I could say anything about it.

Arda Xi

Alas, I must leave you without my presence. Good tidings to all.

OrigamiRobot

@ArdaXi Give @fbueckert a stare before you leave.

fbueckert

4:47 PM

@OrigamiRobot Every stare I acquire is a vote for me.

Arda Xi

@fbueckert ಠ_ಠ

fbueckert

@ArdaXi Yay, stares! Chalks up another vote

Fluttershy

Can someone link me to the thing that sparked this whole blowout?

Wipqozn

So, it would appear that making a grilled cheese sandwich without bread isn't a very attainable goal...

@Fluttershy No.

OrigamiRobot

@Fluttershy Here

Powerlord

4:51 PM

Whoops, my mistake... that's chocolate-covered bacon.

fbueckert

@Powerlord I like both of those...but I don't think they belong together like that.

OrigamiRobot

@Powerlord Damn that looks like some crispy bacon.

<3 Crispy Bacon

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot And every day I find another food thing to disagree with you about.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert You dislike Bacon!? Me too! tortoise highfive

fbueckert

@Wipqozn Oh, no, I love bacon.

I just like my bacon dripping with fat and grease.

Michel Ayres

4:55 PM

@OrigamiRobot I agree with you on the bacon thing

badp

WE'RE MAKING THIS HAPPEN

Fluttershy

@Wipqozn Bah... Valid question, but crap...

Michel Ayres

@badp ?

SaintWacko

badp

@MichelAyres Steam for Linux sent a large number of invites yesterday

@SaintWacko It's downloaded all the things.

Michel Ayres

4:57 PM

xD

SaintWacko

@badp Including the internet. Multiple times

Wipqozn

@Fluttershy The argument was about whether or not @fbueckert was allowed to down vote it, not if it was valid.

fbueckert

@SaintWacko That's...17.5 exabytes?

badp

@SaintWacko You clogger of the pipes

SaintWacko

@fbueckert Yep

fbueckert

4:58 PM

@Wipqozn Not so much "allowed" as, "I disagree with your super high standards"

SaintWacko

@badp I make a weekly internet backup

badp

Good man.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Either way the answer is "Yes, of course he's allowed to down vote it. Stop being silly."

fbueckert

@Wipqozn I had been still debating whether to VTC it or not when the user threw his hissy fit.

Then it's just, "Alright, now I don't need to teach him, so I can fix it."

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