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12:01 AM
0
Q: Starting a Rack Mounted Server

user104778I'm primarily used to using Computer Towers as basic servers for the company i've been administrating for a while. And we now wish to move away from that to a rack facility. I have no idea (not the slightest clue) as to how these things work. There's just a few questions I would like to ask: ...

Didn't we have a canonical question for this at one point?
 
@MichaelHampton I dunno, but if we don't, I say we make that one it. I mean really, Do rack-mounter servers have OS's is something I never want to hear again. I'm still.... the... I mean... what.... IT BURNS!!!!!!!!!!
 
@HopelessN00b I'd be all for that.
 
@MichaelHampton wow, just wow.
 
I want to downvote this question 10 times, close it is as off topic, make it canonical and give it an upvote all at the same time. I... uh... wow. — HopelessN00b 42 secs ago
 
@MichaelHampton I don't know what to say
 
12:06 AM
ok since I'm still a n00b what's a canonical question?
 
@vCole its a question about ubuntu
 
Me, and my 579 rep.
I'm going to assume it's a commonly asked question with a comprehensive answer.
 
1
Q: Sending mass-emails to 20K people at once (in theory)

Wh1T3h4Ck5My database contains 20,000+ verified email-addresses. These are user's emails with permission (users set in options) to receive newsletters, updates, etc... from website. I actually never used their email addresses for any purpose but now I want users to get some updates from website periodicall...

@vCole Right.
 
@vCole and these great dedution skills are why you know that a rack server needs an OS.
 
haha.
 
12:09 AM
I see it as a valid question; if you've spent all your time in small businesses, they may never have had the need for a rackmounted anything.
 
@vCole That's basically it. The canonical answers are considered "canon" on the subject.
@MichaelHampton Sadly, me too... I think he must have worked at a few of the shops I got sent into to..... unclusterfuck.
 
@MichaelHampton yeah its valid. The question is is this the forum valid for that simple a question.
 
Is that a word? I think it is now. The word of the day is unclusterfuck.
 
@JustinDearing It seems to be perfectly on topic to me.
 
@MichaelHampton so we make it a canonical question?
 
12:11 AM
Of course, what it needs now is for someone to spend an hour on a great answer covering every conceivable aspect of the question, then we go make it canonical.
 
@MichaelHampton Already on it.
 
@MichaelHampton I legitimately send email to 20K people pretty routinely...
 
...Back in 45 minutes or so.
 
(well, support the stuff that the PR dept uses when sending it)
 
@freiheit I've done it, but usually the CEO does it.
 
12:12 AM
But somehow, still, when I see "no, I totally have a legit reason for sending to 20K users!" I get suspicious. :)
 
@freiheit I am the legitimate heir to the Nigerian thrown
@freiheit If he's smart enough to do this, he's smart enough to know to outsource the job to an eblast service.
 
@freiheit See, I too have $300 million dollars that I need to get out of the country!
 
@JustinDearing I have 20,572 highly captive users. No need for an eblast service.
 
@Adrian and I know someone who knows 20k people trustworthy enough to assist in this task.
 
@Adrian Mail me the check!
 
12:15 AM
@freiheit you glued them to their chairs?
 
@JustinDearing the majority pay us for the privilege of being glued to a chair
 
@freiheit you work in a university?
 
@JustinDearing Yes.
We actually have closer to 10-12K students enrolled (I'm too lazy to check), but our local definition of student is something like "was eligible to enroll in a class at most 13 months ago"
 
Thank you for reviewing 20 Close Votes today; come back in 23 hours to continue reviewing.
 
Emailing 20K legit addresses really isn't hard anymore... 1,000 messages a second is nothing these days
 
12:37 AM
Can't wait to see @HopelessN00b's magnum opus.
 
@MichaelHampton Thanks, but I do prefer to keep expectations low. Makes it easier to vault over them. :) But I think I'm about a 1/4 of the way through writing it... then I just need to proof it and add the links to the related canonicals.
Say, is there such a thing as a decent editing environment for <shudder> ... markdown?
Oddly, notepad++ doesn't have a default plugin for markdown. =D
@MichaelHampton Or maybe I should just format it html... is there a list anywhere of what tags and nesting options are valid on Stack Exchange?
 
@HopelessN00b Really? It's DevOps and you're asking if there's documentation?
3
 
@MichaelHampton Right, right, pardon me for not thinking that through. In which case, do you know how to do nested numbered lists here? (Or if it's possible?) Like 4 major sections, numbered 1-4, each section having it own indented numbered list of... well, "shit to consider"/priorities?
 
It's Markdown, bates the hell out of me.
 
Crap, me too. Well, formatting this may take as long as writing it. Three cheers for markdown to make everything easier, right?
 
1:10 AM
@MichaelHampton . . . . must...resist...urge...to....star....masturbatory....typo....
@HopelessN00b Markdown isn't really standardized.
so no.
 
@voretaq7 Figgers. Any advice on how to format the post I'm writing for this? Should I maybe suck it up and ask on mSO how/if you can do different sized headers and a nested numbered list?
 
@voretaq7 Jeff actually wants to help with that.
 
@jscott The future of markdown? Ugh, I think it's like COBOL - a fundamentally flawed idea that will haunt us al for decades to come.
 
@HopelessN00b Quicker/Simpler than HTML. Have you ever had to work extensively with wiki-markup? That's not very good either.
 
@jscott i know, it's a laudable goal.
@HopelessN00b Markdown isn't a bad idea
 
1:16 AM
@HopelessN00b There's a Formatting Sandbox, on MSO, which you can use to test your composition.
 
@jscott Right, just like COBOL. "Oh, it's a programming language for business folks who aren't coders..." Yeah, so coders recognize it for the shit it is, it's too hard for non-techies, and you get a giant fustercluck out of it. Hey, alot like markdown...
 
I'd like to see it improved so it could replace Wikipedia's markup language actually.
@HopelessN00b Aside from the broken markdown parsing in chat it's not a bad system.
 
@jscott booty-full, thanks. I'll go move this over there and continue on with my ill-advised, tl;dr answer.
 
it's mostly based on old internet conventions (emphasis strong emphasis /italics/ is broken but I can't fault them too much for that...)
@HopelessN00b which dear are you painting teal?
 
2
Q: Starting a Rack Mounted Server

user104778I'm primarily used to using Computer Towers as basic servers for the company i've been administrating for a while. And we now wish to move away from that to a rack facility. I have no idea (not the slightest clue) as to how these things work. There's just a few questions I would like to ask: ...

What iz differences between rack and tower survers?
 
1:22 AM
@HopelessN00b Cool, looking forward to it.
 
Yeah, I keep ending up in disaster zones companies where the last admin obviously didn't know the difference. It gets exhausting.
 
I.... uh.....
@HopelessN00b Jesus Henrietta Motherfucking Christ - I am unable to rightly apprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead to asking that question.
So today I've linked to two (2) of McKusick's videos on filesystem design, and a Cisco book on VPN architecture
this is like the most information density I've thrown into answers in months.
and one of them has a ReiserFS dig in it :P
 
@voretaq7 I know, right? I must be feeling compelled to answer it completely in order to restore order to my world. My brain's still spinning its wheels over that.
 
also BTW
Still the best VPN/WAN architecture I've seen in like forever
from like 2007
 
@voretaq7 I bookmarked it.
 
1:34 AM
@voretaq7 Oh... I'm gonna cry. I'm implementing a redesign of our VPN and WAN architecture in about 28 hours from now... wish I'd had that link about 2 months ago. sigh
 
@jscott I've got it on my useful PDFs thumbdrive.
 
I'm not too proud to say that my Cisco chops are severely lacking. I've been lucky enough to work with some really smart people who know that stuff inside and out. They've made it possible for me to focus on the silly, arcane details of living in a Windows shop.
 
@HopelessN00b heh - quick read through and make sure you're not committing any real heresies :-)
I'm not the best Cisco admin - I can muddle through with the manual and a good command reference - but the concepts are the same no matter what kind of router/fw/LB/etc. you're using and the Cisco books/courses are EXCELLENT
 
@voretaq7 Oh we are. And I know we are. And I said we were. But the CCN**A** who made the design didn't know any better, and I'm "just" a "server guy," so with no good, easily parasble docs to show the PHBs, they ignored me. :(
 
heh, well now you have a doc -- if any of the heresies are REALLY that bad you might be able to delay until the architecture can be fixed (or get a plan in place to fix them after the reorg)
 
1:41 AM
@voretaq7 Yeah, well... the other thing is they've been threatening to convert me to an FTE for a while, and I think they're getting serious about FTE, or we'll find someone who will ... so, the prospect of dozens of hours of OT to fix the abomination we're putting in place is now an unpaid burden, rather than a pile of money waiting to be harvested. :(
 
@HopelessN00b bleh. Negotiate it into your salary :P
 
Might actually end up being forced to accept an FTE position only to leave <1 year later, after I've got the experience.
 
@HopelessN00b are they willing to pay you well (and is the company a good place to work?)
 
@voretaq7 Trying. The CIO is an asshatted cheapskate though, so he'll probably nickel and dime it down, and I'll accept just for the experience of re-architecting and implementing the whole environment, only to leave once all the hard work's done. :(
 
@HopelessN00b I've done that a few times
 
1:45 AM
@voretaq7 It's an awesome place to work, and they pay really well... except in IT, where the head guy's just cheap/penny-wise-pound-foolish beyond belief.
 
it sucks from a raw cash standpoint, but it adds like $30K to your value at the next place to work
@HopelessN00b startup?
 
@voretaq7 Yeah, in 1896.
 
my company has kinda the opposite problem - we pay well all around, but we don't have many (anywhere near enough) people
@HopelessN00b ah, the opposite end of the same problem
should I just dup-close this one?
0
Q: Logwatch equivalent for Windows Server?

Series8217I have a Windows 2008 server that is just running a few apps and doesn't need a lot of attention. However, all I know how to do right now is remote desktop into it and check event logs, free disk space, backup logs, etc.. It's annoying to do this every day since usually nothing is wrong. I'd lik...

it's not REALLY a duplicate of the monitoring tools question, but that's what he should really be doing...
 
Yup. Make food and are currently owned by Venture Capitalists. Not a good recipe for "getting IT."
@voretaq7 I would. Otherwise, it'll get slammed for product recomendation and be closed with a link to nothing.
 
2:16 AM
On the topic of Shopping, I sort of wish the killings were cleaner. Seems a lot of -1s gather quickly, along with the VTCs. Not that Rep Rules Everything Around Me, but I think some innocents catch a lot of flak.
 
@jscott agreed - there's really no need to throw 10 downvotes on a question. 5 close votes and a polite comment is more than adequate
 
I've joined the dark side
 
@JoelESalas You've become a Windows admin then?
 
@jscott Worse: I'm writing production software in JavaScript
 
@JoelESalas Assuming you're shipping a webapp, that's not the end of the world. :)
 
2:24 AM
@JoelESalas FUCKING HEATHEN
 
I"m pretty sure that was a first. At least while I've been a mod.
 
?
 
@jscott A user propositioned @Voretaq7 in a demeaning way. =]
 
@ChrisS Well I never...
:)
 
@ChrisS really? I missed it
or are you referring to the guy I yelled at?
 
2:27 AM
@voretaq7 You sent him a mod message... He responded. =]
 
@ChrisS really? Ohhh goody I need a laugh
 
I approved his vacation request.
 
ha!
 
(more of a laugh than I get from the "late answers" queue)
 
@jscott It's a monitoring system ;_;
 
2:29 AM
@ChrisS heh you're meaner than me I would have only put him in a 30 day time-out
 
@voretaq7 You look like ten feet tall in your profile picture
 
@JoelESalas FUCKING GODLESS HEATHEN!
@JoelESalas I am like ten feet tall :)
 
@voretaq7 I almost put a 0 after that... but I've got a fruity dragonberry rum drink and I'm feeling nice.
 
also I either never got an inbox notification for his reply or it got buried in other crap.... the SE inbox implementation still irks me
ah apparently I did get an inbox notification (2 of them)
 
I can tolerate a lot of disagreement, and swearing, and insults... But there's no place for someone who responds like that on Server Fault.
 
2:32 AM
@ChrisS You realize you're a nazi too now right?
 
I want to see! show show show
 
(I'm really considering making "Mean Mr. Mod" t-shirts with banhammers on the back)
 
@voretaq7 You can't kick Mods from chat. You know how I know this? I tried. =]
 
@ChrisS You can, it's just a 2 step process and more annoying than anyone is willing to do :P
 
@jscott Enh, read the faqing FACK. Or something like that. And they get the rep back (if they even lost any, 1 -10 == 1) when the question's auto-deleted anyhoo.
 
2:36 AM
@HopelessN00b yeah but we've had "shopping" questions that could be reworked that can never recover from the -10 they get pushed down to
 
@voretaq7 Really I'm much simpler than a nazi. They had all sorts of intent and weird ethics and stuff like that... thought process. I've got a line in the sand, your on one side or the other; simple, mechanical... Like the suicide machines in Futurama. They don't feel remorse, apathy, or sympathy; they just do their job.
 
@ChrisS Those suicide machines suck! Fry survived!
I just hate users.
I'm a seething orb of hate
 
@ChrisS Well, until you said that, I was thinking about getting a nice bottle of wine, cooking an intimate dinner for two and inviting @voretaq7 over, but I guess not, since it means a ServerFault ban... :p
=D
 
@HopelessN00b ...what kind of wine?
:-)
 
@voretaq7 Depends on the entree, of course! But I do have a craving for a nice steak and a decent Pinot Noir...
 
2:39 AM
@HopelessN00b If I get there and it's a $3 boxo you're banned for life.
2
 
@voretaq7 Oh, phuck no. Alcohol is one of those things in life you never cheap out on. I may not be an oenophile, or be able to appreciate a $200 a glass wine, but I'm not a moron either. Wine comes in bottles. Fruit juice for small children comes in boxes.
(I actually had to explain that to a date once... ugh, women.)
 
Why always with the downvotes?
-1
Q: Google authenticator with Openldap or Fedora 389 Server

chandankAfter little googling I could see some references of configuring Google Authenticator with Windows Active Directory, however, I could not see how I could do it on Linux/CentOS system. What would be involved in setting up Google Authenticator on Linux (CentOS) with OpenLDAP or 389 Directory Server?

(granted I fixed the question up a bit)
@HopelessN00b you can get quite good wine in a box, but we're talking like $75 for a box
 
@voretaq7 Ubuntu logo as avatar?
 
2:54 AM
@WesleyDavid forgive him his trespasses
the question (can I use Google Authenticator with LDAP-centralized secrets) is a good one
 
@voretaq7 Good to know. I'm not a wino either though... so I don't do $3 a bottle wine. Don't even do $3 a glass wine.
 
The thing about wine in a box is that after you tank it, you've got a nice pillow to collapse on
 
@WesleyDavid SPACE BAG!!!!!
Raise your hand if you've not slept on a Space Bag in a public park.
 
@voretaq7 $75 box wine? Like for a .75 to 1 liter box, not for multi-liter box?
 
@jscott stays silent and motionless
 
2:58 AM
@WesleyDavid Cuddling your piggy bank is, of course, optional.
 
@freiheit 5L commercial boxes
most I've ever seen for small boxes (<5L) is like $20-30 for 3L boxes
 
@voretaq7 Ah. Yeah, I've seen that before. Intended for restaurants, because oxygen doesn't get into wine once you start pouring it from a bag/box.
 
@freiheit yup.
 
I'd also seen stuff like this: frenchrabbit.com/wines-french-rabbit.html
 
I get my photo chemicals in cubitainers for that reason
 
3:01 AM
(cheap wine, but real wine, not the table grape wine flavored with real wine stuff most boxes do)
 
@freiheit Oxygen is the single leading cause of all my trouble tickets. Solution: Deprive anyont that submits a ticket of air. Ticket closed. User's chemical dependency on oxygen resolved.
3
 
There's a lot of actual DECENT box wine out there these days
 
@WesleyDavid Oxygen ruins wine, ruins beer, and keeps stupid people alive.
@voretaq7 I haven't seen much of it. Just one or two brands in tetrapack, and a vague awareness of a local restaurant or two using the commercial sized bags.
The box (bag in a box) format does make a ton of practical sense, though. You pour a glass of it, and you still have a box of wine that'll keep for months to come. No weird silly tricks like pumping out air or pumping in argon just to get the wine to last a week instead of a day or two...
 
welp
Today I learned about misconfigured routers and tcp maximum segment size
the former required me to adjust the latter
Fun times
 
@freiheit yup
HOORAY! YOU'RE LEARNING!
Learning that other people are FUCKING IDIOTS!
:-)
 
3:14 AM
I just found myself saying "Yeah, don't shut that server down. It doesn't come back up." I have lost at SysAdmining.
2
I should just... I...

...should just...

...go become a developer. :'(
Can I at least be a DevOp though?
 
@HopelessN00b Screw the wine. I've got fifths of Jack and Johnie (for drinking and drinking respectively). And half a fifth of moonshine; though it's best for making bottle rockets, fueling a flaming shot, and de-greasing carburetors.
3
 
@WesleyDavid YOU FAIL SIR!
You lose the internet, and get a bath! Bad @WesleyDavid! BAD!
 
@WesleyDavid This is why I snapshot machines before installing Windows Updates...
 
@voretaq7 Well it comes back up, but you have to pull the power cord out and plug it back in. So... if it's on a smart UPS you can do that remotely. Does that count for something?
 
@WesleyDavid why hasn't it been replaced?
 
3:16 AM
@ChrisS No, the taste compliments the steak very well. Like a nice scotch. It's about complimenting the food you serve. The drinking or drinking (and hopefully humping) come after the fine meal.
 
@HopelessN00b I do miss dating a little bit sometimes. =]
 
@voretaq7 Replaced? I'm just now rolling it into production.
 
@WesleyDavid BAD CAT!
 
@ChrisS Oh, go on a first date or two, kill that nostalgia right quick.
 
@HopelessN00b tell me about it. Men suck.
(except not in the good way. They suck with sharp pointy teeth.)
 
3:18 AM
I mean, the meeting new people and humping them part is definitely nice, but the problem is the 10 awful experiences that make your skin crawl for every hump-worthy one you find.
 
@HopelessN00b Date married women... You both know what you're looking for by the end of the night, and it's not swapping phone numbers. =]
 
And I'm a degenerate manwhore who'll hump anything, if that help calibrate things for you.
@voretaq7 I was gonna say the same thing about women, actually.
 
@ChrisS well maybe for her burn phone
 
@HopelessN00b I've heard they make good money around Miami.
 
Motherfucking Delta hotels with their fucking dodgy elevators. At least I have Internet.
 
3:20 AM
@voretaq7 212-660-2245 <-- Call it, then memorize it.
 
@ChrisS Yeah, I've thought about it... even looked into it a little. And I remember that there are enough people who want to put a bullet in me without adding a few dozen angry husbands to the line at some later date. :)
 
@HopelessN00b ! Have you finished your goddamn diatribe on that rack question yet 'cuz other people are answering it!
 
@voretaq7 I know what it is!
 
@ChrisS 516-730-7245
 
@ChrisS Not what I meant/had in mind, but nice to know I call fall back on being a gay prostitute when I burnout on IT
2
 
3:22 AM
@ChrisS "heard"
 
@voretaq7 No. It's the weekend, so I was gonna take it slow and post it Monday morning, right before life starts sucking again I head into work. That not work for your schedule?
 
@HopelessN00b CRACK WHIP
 
@voretaq7 Foreplay won't help me get it done any faster.
 
0
A: Switching to Rack Mounted Servers

j2k4jThink of Rack-Mount servers as your computer towers in a different shape/form. (Same guts inside (of varying power, capability, etc.) but different shape. Modern Rack-mounted machines are thinner, to take-up less space.) Essentially, they are able to be screwed into a rack, along with other rack-...

MUSH answer slave! MUSH!
 
I think my cat has hemorrhoids.
2
 
3:26 AM
Seriously guys, I'm posting from a stuck elevator. No love?
2
 
Nope.
 
@voretaq7 Fine, I'll do it tonight. Which may technically include tomorrow morning EST. I still have to cook dinner, because, well... women suck. Never gonna let one [try] to cook for me again.
 
How long have you been in there?
If you need us to call front desk...
 
@MikeyB You near Miami? Because it turns out I have a second career option around there that could involve throwing some "love" your way.
 
I have skype and free US calls
@HopelessN00b Dexter Morgan?
 
3:27 AM
@gparent no there's an emerg phone. 10 mins.
 
@gparent No, the gay-prostitute thing Chris mentioned.
 
@HopelessN00b London, ON
 
Oh sorry I just joined
Or started paying attention to chat rather
 
@MikeyB Oh, international gay hooking. That would beef up the resume. Not sure I could get there in time, though. Raincheck?
 
Okay, just read the buffer since that router thing :)
 
3:29 AM
This answer was locked by Community♦ -- what would trigger that?
27
A: All servers flooded by salt water, is it possible to recover data from multi-platter drives?

nikThere are already many companies providing services for this, for example 24HourData (their site has a list of drives they support). While you figure out your next steps keep these things in mind (from Top Tips for Liquid Damaged Data Storage Devices) Do not try to power on a flood damage...

 
@tylerl I dunno, but if you look through the revs, it was deleted by community too. I wondered if was migrated from SU and... something about that.
 
Oddly, the question isn't locked, nor are any of the other answers. Very weird.
 
@HopelessN00b has your kitchen been destroyed?
@MikeyB Whut?
@tylerl The question was closed as OT (or something) which triggered a rejected migration (deletes migrated answers), when I unlocked the question and reopened it I undeleted that answer but never unlocked it
 
@voretaq7 No, I saw her kitchen right after work. Oh-my-fucking-gawd.
 
it's fixed now :)
 
3:33 AM
She said she knew how to cook, and I forgot the first two rules about women. 1) They lie. 2) When they're not lying, they're wrong.
 
@voretaq7 ah. that explains it. Thanks.
 
my ex Jamie (dude) made coffee for me once.
I came back to his place the next week and went to make coffee and the coffee filter from last week was still in the machine. Growing fuzzy and approaching sentience.
 
Well, hers was at least hygienic... but holy freaking hell, there was like two pots, a cookie sheet and a fork (and an unopened bottle of something green for spices) as the totality of cooking implements and/or cooking ingredients.

I can microwave a fucking hotpocket too; that's not what **cooking** is. :/
@MikeyB The inside of your elevator shaft looks really dirty. You should call the front desk and have someone sent over to clean it.
 
@MikeyB Oh you're stopped at a floor with the inside doors open? Can't you trip the release for the outside door?
@HopelessN00b ok to be fair
my kitchen only has spices, tea, and a bag of lentils right now
I need to shop at some point and stock cooking ingredients
 
3:39 AM
@voretaq7 OK, but did you invite a date over to "cook" for him, and then microwave him a pre-made meal from the freezer?
 
ummmmmmmmNO.
I would never do such a thing
For that matter I would never invite a date over to cook for him - I'd invite him to show up at some point after I would be DONE with the cooking.
But that's because I'm Italian and you don't want to be around me when I'm cooking because I'll be all yelly and mean if you're in my way.
 
I need someone to profanely curse PHP for me please.
 
My kitchen is somewhat stocked, and I got 5% off groceries today, so I got a family pack of chicken, a whole chicken, a turkey breast, some ground turkey... enough meat for 2-3 weeks. I've got a 20% coupon coming, so I've got to plan exactly what will fit in my freezer. =]
@WesleyDavid I've already said everything to PHP that I'm going to say. >=[
 
@WesleyDavid I believe your wish is granted very nearly once every 4.3 seconds by someone, somewhere.
 
@voretaq7 Amen to that. Though, why anyone would want to get in a man's way when he's using one of his many knives always baffles me. I'm holding a bloody knife, is now really the time to be arguing with me or getting in my way?
 
3:43 AM
Actually, more specifically, I need people that use IonCube to be cursed to a fiery death of screaming and gore in a bizarre oil mishap at KFC on a Saturday night in front of an audience of high school cheerleaders.
 
@voretaq7 you can't see my foot holding the door open
 
@WesleyDavid Go to StackOverflow.
 
@voretaq7 You're so mean to me. =(
 
@MikeyB you could still trip the release, the inside door won't close as long as the feeler (or light beams) is triggered
 
@voretaq7 Okay, so I go to Stack Overflow and what solution do I find? "chmod 755 index.php worked for me."
2
I wish I was kidding.
 
3:49 AM
Yay rescue!
2
 
1
A: PHP Warning: Unknown: failed to open stream

MullinsI had the same error and my problem was the file permissions were incorrect. chmod 755 index.php worked for me.

"File permissions were incorrect. Nothing was 777. chmod 777 -R /* worked"
 
I only now just realized that SO doesn't have an "official" chat
 
@voretaq7 was just Google ing elevator escape. Plus wife was waiting 5 floors up with 2 wrangy kids.
Later! Say hi to @PauskaSock for me.
 
@WesleyDavid woot?
 
@MikeyB Later. Glad you didn't have to drink your own piss.
2
 
3:53 AM
@tylerl because THEY SUCK!
 
Wait, I'll fix it! echo 0 > /selinux/enforce
 
@tylerl (actually they have chat.stackoverflow.com)
@WesleyDavid I actually approve of that solution
SELinux is shit.
 
@voretaq7 Oh hush you.
 
@WesleyDavid AM I WRONG?
 
@voretaq7 It's just deeply misunderstood with a troubled past and some therapy to work through. Once it gets past its daddy issues, it'll play nicely with the other kids.
 
3:55 AM
@WesleyDavid It's shit.
 
I mean, if the NSA fathered you, wouldn't you be a little hard to work with sometimes?
 
@voretaq7 oh... a whole different network? None of those showed up here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/…
 
there's a SELinux THING to stop clients from connecting to Postgres.
It only affects clients running on the machine where the flag is set.

How does that help security?
1
Q: selinux boolean allow_user_postgresql_connect has no effect

TaninDirectI'm setting up a new system which contains a postgresql database and I'm trying to lock down which machines are able to open a connection to the database. I'm trying to use the allow_user_postgresql_connect boolean to achieve this but so far have been unable to get it to block any connections. ...

^ Seriously, I'm not fucking kidding about that boolean.
@tylerl yup
@tylerl entirely separate. StackOverflow is an island in many ways compared to the rest of the SE network because of size/scale issues
 
Since we're sharing... check out this poor dude. He bought a "dedicated server" with a notebook processor, and is wondering why his PHP scripts are executing slower. LOL! I'd have thought that a 10 Euro dedicated server might be a clue, but not to everyone....
0
Q: Bad performance issue on dedicated server

Pierre EspenanI just subscribed to a dedicated server offer, and encounter some bad PHP execution performances. Actually, the time execution may be 2 times bigger than it is on my old mutualized server! I'm definitely not an expert in server management, so I'm wondering what I missed. Here are some stuff that...

 
@HopelessN00b be nice when you answer.
 
3:58 AM
@voretaq7 I was. And I already did. :p
And not just nice by my standards, actually nice.
 
@HopelessN00b . . . checks to see how long I have to ban you for
 
@voretaq7 I think that's just a policy alias to get all the appropriate permissions and ACL entries right for allowing connections to postgres
cause when you look at the full list of booleans you can apply... it's a bit .. intimidating
 
@voretaq7 Just be sure to keep my standards in wine in mind when you look that up. :p
 
@tylerl ...but WHY THE FUCK WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING YOU SET ON CLIENTS?
Access control should be applied on the server. This shit is like using client-side javascript to validate form data and relying on it to prevent SQL injection.
Fake security is worse than no security.
Bad design (especially security) pisses me off... grumbles
 
@voretaq7 The official description is "Allow user to connect to postgres socket" -- which sounds like it applies to local unix sockets.
SELinux disabled everything by default, and forces you to explicitly enable anything you want to do
presumably more secure, but annoying as hell
 
4:05 AM
@tylerl ...which would be properly controlled with permissions (or POSIX ACLs).
 
I just picked up a few 20Gb Infiniband cards for next to nothing; they're missing the PCI bracket, minor drawback, but who here has 20Gb in their home network? =}
 
@voretaq7 but that's why SELinux exists -- because user-oriented permissions are insufficient
 
@ChrisS How much can you get for them on eBay?
 
each process has permissions irrespective of the user it runs as
and if you agree with that, then SELinux is for you
 
4:06 AM
@WesleyDavid I picked them up on eBay; so I'm thinking it'd be a loss unless I could find the brackets (practically impossible). Then they'd go for $150+
 
But I dare say that a properly-configured SELinux server is bloody impossible to pwn.
not the watered down redhat style, mind you
 
I don't because that's not the unix permissions model
(and as I've said before, if Linux wants to start doing their own thing I'm totally cool with it -- stop calling youselves a unix-like system and admit to being as bad as Microsoft in terms of doing your own thing and fuck everyone else)
@tylerl A properly configured ANY server is pretty hard to pwn.
I can make a damn secure Windows box if I invest the time and effort
SELinux is just badly designed IMHO
 
@voretaq7 how so?
 
I don't mind the concept, but the implementation is pain and suffering
 
what would make it better?
 
4:09 AM
@tylerl well engineered templates would be a good starting point
 
@tylerl Outright copying the BSD's implementations instead of reinventing the wheel poorly. =]
 
right now it's so much work to make a usable system with SELinux enforced everyone I know disables it.
@ChrisS not that the big 3 BSDs have gotten it right either, but at least when you switch on mandatory access control you've got a usable system still
 
If I pwn3d a bsd machine I'd chflags -R schg / then set the kernel secure level to 3 and see how long it takes them to figure it out. =]
 
@ChrisS mean.
 
@ChrisS BSD ACLs are user-based, right? Or can processes be given or restricted permissions without respect to any given user?
 
4:15 AM
@tylerl Yes, user based.
 
@tylerl What's the use for access control at the process level?
 
Solaris has that crazy Role system...
 
@ChrisS that's still effectively "user" level - users are placed into roles which have rights
 
@voretaq7 Users can also assume different roles, which is how you su on it.
 
@voretaq7 processes only need to have permission for whatever role they serve. A process may need to run as a given user, but it doesn't typically need all the permisions that user normally has. So you can lock it down so that if it gets pwned, the attacker can only do what the process was explictly given permission to do
 
4:18 AM
@tylerl so why not lock down that user?
why add this extra layer of complexity where I can manage the user's ACL/Authorization and then a separate layer for programs running as that user?
Maybe I'm just stuck in 1970 but to me it seems like just heaping unnecessary complexity onto the system
 
@voretaq7 If you try to do it all with unique users, it becomes complicated as well. Say FTP needs to be able to write files owned by a given user, but it doesn't need to be able to open TCP connections -- though the user under whose ownership it saves the files DOES need to open TCP connections.
 
Heh, found out what that French dude bought from his hosting company - a 3.5 year old mini-blade server with a notebook processor, that cost 400 bucks new. Heh.
 
So either FTP needs to be able to save files under someone else's user account, or you have to give FTP more permission than it really needs
 
@tylerl then you give the FTP user the ability to write files as the target user, but not the ability to open outgoing TCP connections
 
@voretaq7 right -- so how would you, with current technology, give FTP permission to act as a given user with respect to the filesystem, but not with respect to network resources?
(i type crappy)
'cause users can't save files as other users unless they're root
 
4:25 AM
@tylerl At least on the BSDs it can be done with the MAC & ACL frameworks - it's ugly (probably as ugly as SELinux), but so is that particular use case :-)
I guess my objection is that while SELinux is Secure By Default it's also Bloody Fucking Unusable By Default (and making it usable is really annoying - moreso than I think it should be)
 
@MikeyB Fess up, you just got yourself stuck in an elevator to have an excuse to meet some local firemen.
2
 
@voretaq7 I think SELinux was an attempt to give Linux all the security attributes that look good on paper, and then Redhat thought that with enough time they could make it usable. Still not there, obviously.
 
@tylerl my standard is OpenBSD (which I consider to be a giant pain in the ass on a scale almost as grand as the guy who heads it up)
If something is less usable than OpenBSD it's de facto crap in my opinion :)
@tylerl I mostly agree - I think SELinux is an attempt to check every damn box on the NSA's list
what they didn't realize is nobody ever checks every box (because if you do you've entombed the machine in concrete for all the good it'll do ya)
 
@voretaq7 As long as you're shooting the moon, you might as well use nukes
 
so now they've got this server encased in concrete and these tiny itty bitty 1mm drill bits, and they're trying to make enough itty bitty holes to make the machine usable
when all anyone ever really wants is a window screen
@tylerl fuck nukes - they blew up the damn sun and took out the rest of the solar system too (just to be thorough) :-)
 
4:31 AM
@voretaq7 I knew I was justified doing chkconfig iptables off
Usability, bitches!
 
@WesleyDavid you have a real firewall in front of the box right? :)
 
Ugh, FFS, I'm about to post a question on SU. Anyone have a gun I can borrow?
 
@voretaq7 <_< wat
 
@HopelessN00b get your own, user
@WesleyDavid Kitty's getting another flea dip...
 
@HopelessN00b Once you go SU, you will never be respected again.
 
4:34 AM
@voretaq7 Ohhh... Yeah, the datacenter has a 90 minute burn rated door at each of the entry and exit points in the building. So yes, I'm good. Whew, you had me going for a minute.
@tylerl ...when did we start respecting @HopelessN00b in the first place?
 
@voretaq7 But I don't want blowback all over my gun. :(
The first brain matter all over one of my guns really shouldn't be mine. :(
 
@HopelessN00b I'm not getting superuser goobers all over my firearms!
 
@WesleyDavid Alright, I'm getting the hose. @voretaq7 , prepare the kitty's "flea dip," please.
 
Watching SU to see HopelessN00b's Q appear. Must screenshot for evidence
 
@HopelessN00b False premise. Popping balloons doesn't procure blowback. Fire when ready, Gridley.
 
4:37 AM
@tylerl hes gonna open up a new account, dont kid yourself
 
No, if you ask a question on SuperUser you're still respected. I mean, look at me. I've asked two questions on SU and I... shit.
2
 
@tylerl Well, may as well link my shame here, then. I thought about calling it a server, but it has an eVGA graphics card and dual IPS panel monitors. sigh
 
@MikeyB So did you learn how to do the Fireman's Carry yet?
 
Yeah, though I'm usually the bottom in that position.
 
@MikeyB rawr?
 
4:47 AM
My wife says so.
^ that was SWMBO taking advantage of my PlayBook while I was changing a diaper. The baby's, for the record.
 
Oh sure, throw her under the bus.
Oh wait, that's what you meant by "bottom position"
I get it.
Carry on.
Get it?!
I slay me.
 
@WesleyDavid the @WesleyDavid slayer?
 
SELINUX=permissive "Talk dirty to me, SELinux!" "Okay, I WATCH YOU WHEN YOU SYMLINK OUTSIDE OF /VAR/FTP" "ewww"
 
@WesleyDavid you filthy, filthy pervert!
 
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