English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Sometimes it seems to be their main thing. It's hard to tell. They always whine about that. They also complain a lot about the way religious people slaughter their animals. One would presume their main point to be the bio-industry. I'm sure they complain about that too.

@Robusto I know, it's weird.

I really never got the circus thing.

Matt Эллен

Circus animals? Don't get me started! Coming into towns, stealing, vandalising, and the price they charge you to go on their rides. It's daylight robbery.

MετάEd

@MattЭллен Damn those Shriners!

Cerberus

6:09 PM

@MattЭллен True, true.

I wish the Animal Party would just ceterum censeo about the bio-industry all the time. They could actually be useful that way.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus so they object to halal/kosher butchers? or is it something else?

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ To the killing specifically, I believe.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus so they object to all butchers?

Cerberus

And many other leftist parties do so too.

@JSBձոգչ No, only religious slaughter, because it is said to be too painful for the animals, as opposed to industrial killing, which is supposedly fairly painless.

Or at least very quick.

JSBձոգչ

bizarre

Cerberus

6:11 PM

Now a compromise has been reached, as it always happens here.

tchrist

> Well prepared for this Most Special Day, he had hedged his bets by loading up his cart with jolly lollies of both Raging Red and Boisterous Blue in equal measure, with a few bitter black licorice lollies held in reserve lest SCOTUS should once again be the Ultimate Deciders in the Greatest Nation’s Greatest Race.

Cerberus

When animals are slaughtered in religious slaughterhouses, a government official must be present to make sure it is done in such a way that the animal does not suffer beyond what is allowed by law, but the imam/rabbi will still preside the ritual in all other respects.

Or something.

@JSBձոգչ Yeah, I find it bizarre that it should be such a big issue.

The idea is that ritually killed animals are sometimes/often(?) stabbed several times, either because the knife is dull, or it is used incorrectly.

Whereas the right way involves a single, quick slashing of the throat. I think.

tchrist

> In the United States, since the year 2000, the mass media have associated blue with the Democratic Party, even though the Democratic Party is a left-leaning party. In 2010, the party unveiled a blue official logo. In the United States, since the year 2000, the mass media have associated red with the Republican Party, despite the fact that the Republican Party is a conservative-leaning party. Since at least 2010, the party has adopted an all red logo.

> Purple is also unofficially used in the United States to denote a "swing state" (i.e., one contested frequently between the Republican Party, whose unofficial colour is red, and the Democratic Party, whose unofficial colour is blue.) It has also been used to reference Purple America, a term used in contrast to "blue" or "red", noting the electoral differences nationwide are observed more on discrepancies instead of unity.

Britain uses colors the other way.

Americans have no reason to follow how somebody else did things. That would require that they be aware of such, and they aren't.

Matt Эллен

but Americans associate Red with communism

or, at least, the 1980s did

Robusto

Red State (2011 film)

Red State is a 2011 American independent action-horror film, written and directed by Kevin Smith, starring John Goodman, Melissa Leo and Michael Parks. For months, Smith had maintained that the rights to the film would be auctioned off to a distributor at a controversial event to be held after its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival, but instead Smith purchased the film himself which, according to analysts, "might have been a difficult sale for any distributor." Smith originally planned to self-distribute the picture under the "Smodcast Pictures" banner with a traveling show in sele...

Cerberus

6:22 PM

@tchrist Everyone uses red for left.

The colour of socialism and communism.

Robusto

@Cerberus Let me remind you: All generalizations are false.

Cerberus

Says Mr Red Mark.

You lefty.

Robusto

The character means "dream" ... so, yeah, I'm a lefty.

naxa

How could I find the names of things used in a tram interior?

(with image)

Robusto

@naxa Try Visual Dictionary Online.

Do French dogs barque all the time or only when they're on a boat?

cornbread ninja

6:43 PM

Jul 31 at 15:05, by Robusto

When you hit a French chicken in the stomach, does it say oeuf ?

Robusto

Words of wisdom.

These are the important questions the millennial generation must answer.

cornbread ninja

If I could star it again, I would.

naxa

@Robusto thank you amazing! it helped. if only it could be more broad..

tchrist

7:06 PM

@Cerberus Sorry. Not here. Not any more. Anyway, we have no Left, as well you know.

MετάEd

@Robusto Eeew.

tchrist

The Republickers, however, do you like to talk about Red China, as though it were a slur.

MετάEd

How many e's in eeew?

Quick, or I'll post that as a question.

tchrist

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

!-2:s/you//

MετάEd

Santorum exploding in the South

tchrist

7:14 PM

@Cerberus Which is precisely why we reassigned that erstwhile color of seditionists, insurrectionists, and similar traitors to God and Country to something else that could actually be used in this country: to cover the reactionary red-blooded Republickers raging to not just to rule but indeed to crush beneath their goose-stepping boot the unwashed proletariat.

More saints?

Carlo_R.

Hello everyone, guys and girls.

MετάEd

@Carlo_R. Is that three populations?

It could be, if there are no guys and girls here.

Carlo_R.

Meta, thank you. I thought girls are not guys. Sorry.

Surely, I'm confused on these words.

Cerberus

@tchrist Makes perfect sense.

@Carlo_R. He's just teasing you.

Carlo_R.

I have heard that in the past "girl" was for "boy".

@Cerberus thank you, so much.

JSBձոգչ

7:22 PM

@Carlo_R. this is true

Carlo_R.

@JSB thank you, I'm happy to say something right.

However I recall (or remember) this fact, but how is it possible?

It is incredible that once time girls meant boy.

But I cannot ask on main site because waiwai suspend me for low quality contribution.

I'm the only one user that, de facto, cannot ask no longer question.

JSBձոգչ

> c.1300, gyrle "child" (of either sex), of unknown origin; current scholarship [OED says] leans toward an unrecorded O.E. *gyrele, from P.Gmc. *gurwilon-, dim. of *gurwjoz (apparently also represented by Low Ger. gære "boy, girl," Norw. dialectal gorre, Swed. dialectal gurre "small child," though the exact relationship, if any, between all these is obscure), from PIE *ghwrgh-, also found in Gk. parthenos "virgin." But this is highly conjectural. And Liberman (2008) writes:
Girl does not go back to any Old English or Old Germanic form. It is part of a large group of G

it originally meant "small child", and was later specialized to mean "small female child"

KitFox

@Carlo_R. Are you not able to ask questions anymore?

Carlo_R.

@JSB thank you JSB, I ever known that you are a serious person.

@Kit :) I'm under mobbing by waiwai. He/she suspend me often.

KitFox

Oh. Well, you aren't the only user ever to be question banned.

JSBձոգչ

7:30 PM

lots of people get banned. it's the hot new thing.

simchona

@Carlo_R. Don't spread falsehoods. Once != often.

Carlo_R.

@JSB and you was among my preference in moderator election, as you see in that sections.

tchrist

Ivan has done his homework by editing in his research and more precise question, and is requesting that his question be reöpened:

1

Q: Uses of the word "lyrics"

I have a doubt on the uses of the word lyrics. I would like to know how it is used by a native English speaker. The Concise Oxford English Dictionary says: lyric noun (also lyrics) the words of a song. Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary says: the words of a song ― often used in plural. So, ...

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the existing answer. But I think Ivan has done what we asked him to do.

Carlo_R.

@Kit but I see a lot of low quality questions. The fact is that I'm the only one to be suspended for this fact. But now I'm waiting for ELL, maybe there will be better.

simchona

@Carlo_R. Again, falsehoods. You are not special: you were not the only one suspended for that reason.

tchrist

7:35 PM

Oct 24 at 15:06, by RegDwighт

Who else wants to get suspended by me? I promise to make it your most enjoyable suspension. Way better than what you'd get from Kit.

Carlo_R.

@sim I know that after a serie of low quality questions user are suspended, but in my case is different: I am suspended without the serie's prerequisite. Am I clear?

simchona

@Carlo_R. No, you had several crappy questions.

Carlo_R.

Crappy for you, but uncrappy for me and for the community.

simchona

@Carlo_R. The community closed lots of them.

Carlo_R.

And one my great question is still blocked.

simchona

7:38 PM

-3

Q: English flavour in this piece

The following piece (1) is a comment of mine posted on Area51 site, and I'm wondering if my phrasing has a proper British or American writing style or if the Google translate (2) has a better one. (1)I only note that the Chinese language is an interesting exception, since in the last few year...

writing-style phrasing non-native-english

Closed by community.

Same with this

Carlo_R.

Yes, this question is too bad in its actual form. I know.

simchona

@Carlo_R. Then don't say waiwai unilaterally suspended you without cause

tchrist

@Sim I just wanted to make sure you knew that we miss your scintillating contributions since you so valiantly stepped up to help shoulder janitorial duties. 😻 😈 😇

Carlo_R.

Things are not black or white, there is a gray scale too.

However, I will go to ELL in the future.

simchona

If you wanted to appeal your suspension, you could have. Bashing waiwai isn't the way to go.

Carlo_R.

7:43 PM

@JSB JSB, why do not you ask for make the moderator in ELL.

JSBձոգչ

@Carlo_R. eh? i ran. i didn't win. no big deal.

tchrist

not constructivates the whole bloody muddlework

Carlo_R.

My friends, my granchildren are calling me. I see you later. Thank you everyone.

Spare Oom

@JSBձոգչ I had early disappointment in running for office. In 6th grade I ran for school treasurer and lost to a girl who had a cute skit. It was also the first year the 1st and 2nd graders were allowed to vote. I'm still bitter. ;)

@JSBձոգչ I like this idea.

user19161

Yo @sonic wassup?

JSBձոգչ

8:00 PM

@AmericanVoters: Alasdair MacIntyre said it better than me.

Matt Эллен

I get some satisfaction of turning up and spoiling my ballot

KitFox

Oh I see. Well, I don't feel that it is a choice between two politically intolerable alternatives, so maybe that's the difference.

Spare Oom

@JSBձոգչ How can we get rid of the two party system, so that qualified candidates don't have to sell their souls to get elected? If serious candidates were given equal time on national t.v., and there were no party affiliation, maybe it would help, though how to distinguish between serious candidates and political trolls may pose a difficulty.

KitFox

It just seems so silly to me (no offense JSB). Either get involved or stop complaining. Refusing to participate accomplishes nothing.

I don't like peas or carrots, so I won't eat. That will show them!

Well, except that no one will care if you are hungry.

Cerberus

@SpareOom The only way is to end the winner-takes-all system.

And introduce proportional representation.

KitFox

8:12 PM

I am strongly in support of instant runoff voting.

Cerberus

What is that?

KitFox

It ensures that candidates must be elected by majority.

Cerberus

That would be an improvement.

But...

Why not do it directly?

KitFox

We've had plurality governors in my state for years. It's a big problem.

Do what directly?

Cerberus

Just add up all votes across the country, and whoever gets the most votes wins.

KitFox

8:14 PM

If you don't have instant runoff, third parties are not truly viable.

Cerberus

I still don't understand what it is.

Spare Oom

How does instant runoff work?

KitFox

Similar to the EL&U elections. You rank the order of your choices.

Cerberus

In most countries, presidential elections are by proportional representation, and tiered.

Ah, so that's what it means. Sure, that's good.

It can replace a tier-based system.

KitFox

It makes it possible for people to vote for third-party candidates without feeling like they are throwing their vote away.

Cerberus

8:16 PM

Yeah.

KitFox

It also means that Gore probably would have won.

Cerberus

Or allow candidates to pool votes (we have that).

But I think p.r. is needed in any case.

KitFox

It would be a good way for other parties to gain a foothold.

Cerberus

Sure.

But...

KitFox

We are trying to get it done in my state because of the gubernatorial issue.

Cerberus

8:18 PM

Don't you think congressional elections should change too?

KitFox

We regularly have three candidates and invariably, the least favored wins.

@Cerberus Yes. All of them should change.

Spare Oom

@KitFox How can that happen?

Cerberus

If you have only two parties in Congress, will a presidential candidate from a third party stand a chance to organise enough support?

@KitFox OK.

KitFox

@SpareOom The last governor had 39% of the vote. The other two candidates split the Dems vote.

Cerberus

Right.

That sucks.

Just introduce proportional voting in all elections.

KitFox

8:20 PM

What's proportional voting?

cornbread ninja

@KitFox peas and carrots look nice together.

KitFox

Don't they? Especially on a bed of rice.

Cerberus

All votes are added up, and seats are distributed based on what percentage of votes you got.

Spare Oom

Ross Perot was the closest any 3rd person had to presidential victory because he was so rich. Any 3rd party (or independent) only takes from one of the major parties' candidate. Did I say that right?

KitFox

Basically. That is how it is now.

Cerberus

8:21 PM

But you have districts now, don't you?

And the winner takes all in his district, right?

Spare Oom

I like your proposal, @KitFox. Kit for whatever she's running for!

KitFox

But that is because most people know that third-party candidates have no chance of being elected.

So they just won't vote for them because they've thrown it away.

Cerberus

But they would have a far higher chance if the winner didn't take all.

Spare Oom

@KitFox Exactly!

JSBձոգչ

i like @Cerb's idea, though i feel that most of the problems are really symptomatic of the pathologies in the underlying electoral system

Cerberus

8:22 PM

So if you just add up all votes, no votes are thrown away, except if your party gets less than the number required for a single seat.

JSBձոգչ

namely: we have too many elections with too many people involved

KitFox

@SpareOom But...if you thought that Nader wasn't going to be elected, but that your vote would go to Gore if Nader had no majority, you would be more likely to vote for Nader (first, Gore second).

JSBձոգչ

so the polititians are constantly having to pander to the money or the masses

Cerberus

Isn't that unavoidable?

Spare Oom

We need people who don't like politics to run the country.

2

KitFox

8:23 PM

Which is why instant runoff is necessary (imho) for the development of a non-two-party system.

Cerberus

@KitFox For presidential elections, preferential voting is an absolutely great idea. Probably better than tiered.

@KitFox But don't you think a 3+ Congress is needed too?

Robusto

We have a script that makes every commit fail because the connection with Rally is broken. We asked to have it removed. The word came back: DENIED. They want it there as a reminder that someone needs to fix the post-commit hook. But nobody has been assigned to that task. So every commit fails, and since we get used to auto-dismissing the failure messages, we miss actual fails. I call that failboating par excellence.

Cerberus

@SpareOom Very true.

KitFox

@Cerberus I said that already.

Cerberus

OK.

KitFox

8:25 PM

@Robusto That's beautiful. You should stuff it and mount it on your wall.

JSBձոգչ

my crazy never-gonna-happen scheme is to drastically reduce the number of elections. the president gets one (1) ten-year term. the senators get 10 year terms, staggered into two 5-year blocks so that half the senate is reelected every 5 years. the house get any number of 5-year terms. these are designed to be long enough that the president and congress are free to undertake potentially unpopular moves if they have to, and he isn't constantly beholden to the next reelection cycle

Robusto

> -10 User was removed

Another Nortonn clone?

@KitFox It is a keeper.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto admires the process

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Or you could take away power form the president. You don't need a presidential system.

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ You could do it in a series of steps if you could get enough popular support.

Cerberus

8:26 PM

That much power in one hand is a lobbying magnet.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus this is true, but that's even crazier and less likely to happen

we're more likely to turn the prez into an emperor than get rid of him

Cerberus

I suppose.

KitFox

You'd have a hell of a lot of constitutional amendments to pass.

Cerberus

Perhaps it could be done gradually.

JSBձոգչ

it could be done in one monster amendment

Cerberus

8:27 PM

Monsters!

KitFox

Yeah, but that is less likely to succeed.

JSBձոգչ

also, i want to eliminate direct election of senators, and have them go back to being appointed by the state legislatures

KitFox

That's an interesting idea.

Cerberus

There is something to be said for less (direct) democracy.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus yes indeed.

Cerberus

8:28 PM

Our senate is like that.

KitFox

What if they were automatically the state senate majority and minority leaders?

Cerberus

But...

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ This sounds like one of the stages of drunkenness.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox well that would be interesting. it would virtually guarantee a 50/50 party split in the senate

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ And reasonably good, elected representation of everyone in the state.

Spare Oom

8:29 PM

@JSBձոգչ Good point about long enough to do something (so that it's clear it belongs to their record too).

KitFox

Also, the leaders have the most experience, so they would have demonstrated competence and knowledge (theoretically).

JSBձոգչ

the downside is that no matter how thoroughly D or R your state is, your senate reps would still be 50% for the other guy

KitFox

That's also the upside.

Cerberus

And again there is the two-party issue.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox yes, it does have its advantages

Robusto

8:30 PM

	  "Mankind's Ten Stages of Drunkenness"

	0)  Sober
	1)  Witty and Charming
	2)  Rich and Powerful
	3)  Benevolent
	4)  Clairvoyant
	5)  Fuck Dinner
	6)  Patriotic
       *7)  Crank Up the Enola Gay
	8)  Witty and Charming, Part II
	9)  Invisible
	10) Bulletproof

* For the non-trivia buffs, the Enola Gay was the name of the B-29 plane
  used to drop the "A-bombs" on the Japanese at the end of World War II.

Cerberus

Our provincial legislatures vote for the senate. All votes are weighted and added up, and distributed among parties.

So the resulting composition of the senate is more or less similar to that of the lower house, but it is more indirect.

There is much less democratic/populist pressure in provincial elections.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus this is effectively how the US senate used to be, but it was changed to a direct vote in the early 20th century.

Carlo_R.

@Robusto after a lot of efforts I have found the word you wrongly called "onomatopeia".

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonestheme

Cerberus

That combined with the indirect elections ensure that the senate is much more stable.

JSBձոգչ

one of many bad ideas from the early 20th C progressives, who also brought us prohibition

Carlo_R.

8:32 PM

PHONESTHEME

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Hmm too bad. And again you have the winner-takes-all problem.

Robusto

@Carlo_R. You know you make my knees tremble when you turn on the charm.

JSBձոգչ

LOL. my local polling place is the shooting range

9

Cerberus

Who ever thought winner-takes-all was a good idea?

@JSBձոգչ How symbolic.

Robusto

@Cerberus Winners.

Cerberus

8:33 PM

@Robusto Could be...

It is so bad.

MετάEd

@Carlo_R. How old are you really?

Cerberus

(I vote amidst hookers and pimps.)

JSBձոգչ

i wonder if they allow me to fill out my ballot by shooting holes through the names of candidates i don't like

Cerberus

*pictures of candidates

Or life-like dolls.

Carlo_R.

Meta I'm really 80 year old. Oishi is 71 years old. I think I and Oishi are the oldest member.

Robusto

8:36 PM

@Cerberus Pro tip: Move out of the red-light district.

Cerberus

Yay!

Zairja claimed to be older than 92.

@Robusto But I don't want to!

Robusto

@Carlo_R. You share a single membership between you? Interesting.

JSBձոգչ

a'ight, i'm off. see y'all tomorrow in the wake of the post-election apocalypse

Cerberus

Bai!

My polling station.

The door on the right.

On the left are some ladies.

Robusto

Wait, that's the fuchsia light district.

Cerberus

8:38 PM

Yup.

Carlo_R.

@Robusto It is difficult to me the understanding of your last question.

Spare Oom

@JSBձոգչ As long as you don't leave a hanging chad.

Cerberus

Gotta keep up with the trends in prostitution lighting.

Robusto

@Carlo_R. Maybe because it is not a question.

Carlo_R.

but I see a question mark, not an interrobang.

Spare Oom

8:40 PM

Later, folks.

Cerberus

Ciao!

Robusto

@Carlo_R. The message you responded to is not a question.

Carlo_R.

@Cerberus Ciao. I'm happy to hear you speaking Italian. Ciao is right

KitFox

Sometimes I look at my code and I wonder if maybe I have started smoking crack and I just don't remember it.

Robusto

That is one of the side effects, or so I am told.

user19161

8:43 PM

@Robusto A rhetorical question is still a question. QED.

KitFox

Next you will say that a dwarf planet is a planet.

Robusto

@WillHunting Just what we needed: another non sequitur.

user19161

@KitFox Maybe you had more alpha brain waves when you wrote it.

Cerberus

@Carlo_R. Grazie!

Ma non parlo Italiano.

Carlo_R.

@Will Hello Jasper, I'm happy to hear from you.

Cerberus

8:44 PM

È troppo difficile.

user19161

@Carlo_R. So you just talked to your grandchildren?

Robusto

Gettin' a bit strange in here. I'm out.

user19161

@JSBձոգչ The polling places here are almost always schools.

Cerberus

Bai.

Carlo_R.

@Will yes, and I have played with them.

@Cerberus Maybe you don't speach Italian, but your Italian is very good.

user19161

8:47 PM

@Carlo_R. Speak is the verb and speech is the noun.

KitFox

I think we have a question on that.

user19161

I am thinking of lolspeak now.

KitFox

1

Q: Why is it 'speaking' / 'speech' instead of 'speeking' / 'speech' or 'speaking' / 'speach'?

Why is it "speaking" / "speech" instead of "speeking" / "speech" or "speaking" / 'speach'?

etymology american-english orthography

user19161

Just because. Justin Bieber.

KitFox

What a disappointing answer.

Maybe I will offer a bounty on it.

user19161

8:50 PM

Great, and I will post my chat line as an answer!

KitFox

...or maybe not.

user19161

Yeah save the rep.

Carlo_R.

@Kit great! Probabily native speakers are not precisely aware on the great help that ELU is. But, I think ELU is a great resource for people who want to learn English.

user19161

I know some users on another site who offered like 50 bounties.

KitFox

I've never offered one.

user19161

8:51 PM

@Carlo_R. You mean probably and aware of.

Cerberus

@Carlo_R. Grazie mille!

user19161

@carlo My favourite Italian movie is Stanno Tutti Bene. I watched it over 9000 times!

Carlo_R.