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9:01 PM
@TedShifrin Oh, yeah...Morally speaking, it ought to be, but I'll prove this, too. Thanks for the hint.
 
I just noticed the post about Stack Overflow trying to stop moderation of all the ChatGPT crap. Read and consider signing in support.
 
maybe it’s just me imagining, but I’ve been seeing lots of questions on how to evaluate pullbacks, and it almost saddens/annoys me that everyone tries to do it directly from first principles and definitions rather than learning the few simple rules
 
Well, this is because of books and bad teaching. Mathematicians who aren't proficient with calculations with forms do it and teach it wrong :)
In fact, in my book, the formula with pushing forward tangent vectors is only in an exercise (which I never assigned unless someone asked me about it).
 
Ted you stated that $f(x) = x - g(x)/g'(x)$ will be a contraction mapping when $|gg''/(g')^2| \leq c < 1$. How did you determine that to be the lower bound for $c$? Is that what we are trying to accomplish in question 8?
 
oh then how did you define it?
 
9:05 PM
Basis-wise, I assume
$\phi^* df = d(f \circ \phi)$
I think I learnt that from Ted's book
 
Yeah, since I do nothing with abstract manifolds, everything is in $\Bbb R^n$ and I defined $f^*$ to be an algebra map with $f^*dx_i = df_i$.
@D.C. You have that upside-down. We're trying to found the derivative of $f$ by $c$.
 
Speaking of forms, here's a cool fact: For a Riemannian manifold $TM$, under the "Legendre transform" $STM \to ST^*M$ between the unit sphere and cosphere bundles, the geodesic flow on $STM$ turns into the Reeb flow on $ST^*M$ with respect to the contact form $\sum p_i dq_i$, $q_1, \cdots, q_n, p_1, \cdots, p_n$ being the generalized position-momentum coordinates.
This is why you see cusp-like things in your coffee cup when light is reflected on it.
 
@TedShifrin Ok. Then if that is what we're doing in 8. Then how did you get said lower bound?
maybe I should just write it out and see what happens...since I feel there is a MVT vibe going on with that
 
@TedShifrin ChatGPT actually managed to solve my first year calculus problem sets pretty decently, and with some prodding, it refined its answers and I would have given it a 90-95%. sadly, some students blindly copied its first iteration, and ended up with almost crap
 
I'm confused, @D.C. Yes, we want to use the MV Theorem/inequality to argue that a such a bound on the derivative implies contraction. That's in the book.
 
9:11 PM
Oh, you're doing the Kantorovich's Theorem exercise. A certified Ted classic.
 
@peek-a-boo That's just the next exponential step in the evolution of cheating. MSE was the first and second (pre- and during Covid).
 
I wrote an essay on that in my numerical analysis class in undergrad.
 
I will be Balarka, even has its own footnote. Yes it is in the book in the readings, but I am just trying to see how you got it. Because you state the condition, but don't derive it
 
@Balarka I only learned it by trying to teach out of Hubbard and Hubbard before I wrote my book. I think it's a wonderful result, but I still wouldn't teach IFT that way to freshmen.
@D.C. It's just calculating $f'$.
 
I figure. That's why I said I should just write it out because I was trying to go through the reasoning in my head
 
9:13 PM
It's first stated on the bottom of p. 247.
 
yes that's where I'm reading it from
 
hmmm I remember reading a similar exercise from Spivak, but I skipped the problem :)
 
See also Example 1 (although I didn't state the result in general, I guess — I think I might have in lecture).
 
Why did you skip it Peek-a-boo?
 
@peek-a-boo What similar exercise?
Spivak certainly doesn't have Kantarovich's Theorem.
 
9:15 PM
the exercise seemed too long
 
Lol.....my type of reasoning
doesn't seemed to have harmed you either way...........I should do the same.........🤣😂
 
@TedShifrin Hubbard and Hubbard is too clunky. I liked its place as an advanced exercise in your book.
 
Well, I do not like H&H for its exposition or its exercises, but the world sure likes it more than my book. I think they're on their 6th edition or something.
 
Spivak gives a problem in the chapter on sequences about Newton’s method, probably taling about convexity and whatnot
 
@D.C. This exercise is better practice at what you need to do in any real analysis course than almost anything else I could assign. :)
 
9:17 PM
actually I’ve never even heard of Kantarovich’s theorem till now
 
Ohhh, that Spivak. Right. That's actually an exercise I mostly wrote for the 3rd/4th edition when we added zillions of problems.
 
What a way to guilt trip me..............now I'm condoned to doing this one and the multivariable version
 
The exercise in Spivak chapter 22 is a standard thing from every numerical analysis course/text.
whispers to D.C. Look up "condone"
 
@TedShifrin Out of curious im just playing around with the problem, and as a sanity check, what if I say for all small $r>0$, $B_{f(x)}(cr) \subseteq f(B_{x}(r))$, where $c>0$ is some fixed constant, then $f|_{K}^{-1}$ is Lipschitz right?
 
@TedShifrin Lol I just did cause I thought I spelled it wrong.....looks like I used it wrong instead...
 
9:19 PM
@peek-a-boo What's cool about Kantarovich is that it provides a priori an interval in which Newton's method is guaranteed to converge to a root.
 
Unwind the topological stuff with balls in terms of the metric, if the Lipschitzness is true it should pop out, if it's not it won't.
 
@D.C.theIII well, the question seemed too long, and I saw the picture, and it seemed plausible. That’s why I skipped it. if the picture wasn’t there I probably would have done it
 
"resigned" was what I should've used...
 
Maybe it's more natural to put the $c$ on the other side, but yes, monoidal.
That exercise appeared because I gave Spivak a very hard time for not having Newton's Method in his book. (I also added lots on "typical" applications problems, not to mention using Taylor polynomials and other things.)
 
Lol
 
9:22 PM
well, I thank you for adding those problems, because I certainly learned a lot from them (especially the ones on Taylor polynomials)
 
With regard to D.C.'s earlier discussion, numerical analysts care deeply about the rate at which iterated processes converge :) Not that I ever took a numerical analysis course.
 
@TedShifrin thanks Ted! Appreciate it
 
Can confirm. They care about that to the point of nausea.
But it's very important for them, to be fair.
 
Well, the topological things you care about would put them in a month-long sleep.
 
Lol
 
9:25 PM
Speaking about confusion in posts, poor Nate is demanding that I draw him a picture with MS Paint. I really am handicapped by no longer having a graphics program on my computer.
 
"I do not have any Microsoft products, and nor do I want to." Lol
 
UGA doesn't pay for a subscription to MathLab for you for life?
 
I saw that question, and I wanted to write an answer. Then I got hungry and forgot about it
 
@BalarkaSen You do math with Apple products?
 
Actually I did buy an iPad around a year ago and have been using it a lot.
 
9:28 PM
Stay strong and don't be seduced by the Cult of Jobs
 
ipads are great :)
 
Hi @Thorgott
 
@TedShifrin Just did the calculation and I see what you mean and how it came about........concept over mechanics as you told me
 
Heya @Thor.
 
of course we need all the necessary conditions on $g$ to apply Newton
 
9:31 PM
hey @Balarka, @Ted
 
I had purchased Microsoft Office and Adobe Illustrator many years ago with an academic discount. However, Apple's improvements (64-bit technology) made them bricks. And there is no way to replace them, since Microsoft and Adobe have adopted a "monthly rental fee" model. The hell with them.
I used Illustrator heavily for all my books. Now I'm screwed if I have to revise/update or add a diagram.
 
Don't get me started on this "monthly fee" crap......
 
@TedShifrin the restriction to $K$ being compact is irrelevant right? it holds for any subset $A$ right?
 
@monoidal If the $c$ is universal, sure.
 
I have been able to stay strong and continue using my hard copy of MS Office
 
9:32 PM
@Thorgott Writing the last chapter of my MSc thesis, on microlocal sheaf theory.
 
I downloaded a freeware version of cheap Illustrator, but after an hour of playing I couldn't get it to do the simplest things.
 
I vehemently refuse to be paying a monthly fee......
 
@Balarka You are writing on WHAT???!!
 
and they make sure to charge a premium on the hard copy......I'm not even sure if they sell hard copies anymore
 
My thesis is on $h$-principles for Legendrian submanifolds, @TedShifrin, don't worry. The last chapter will use a little bit of microlocal sheaf theory.
 
9:34 PM
No. Certainly Adobe does not, and I think I might have checked on updating Excel. For that I'm happy using Apple's Numbers, although it wouldn't open some very old Excel files.
@Balarka Well, maybe you'll motivate me to learn some of that. Nah, I'm too old to learn.
 
I will avoid saying "derived functors" because my imaginary target audience is geometrically-minded topologists.
I will send a copy once I'm done!
 
But they know microlocal sheaves?
 
Nope, I am only assuming they know what a sheaf is.
 
Even I once knew derived functors. They were everywhere in Hartshorne for 2 or 3 of the 5 quarters.
 
Yea when I said hard copy I should've said they provided you with a code to download the software to your system, but they are slick and reduced the amount of computers you can install the software to down to one computer......unless you pay this handsome "monthly fee"
 
9:36 PM
Yes, I think derived functors are ok but when people start writing $R\Gamma$ or whatever, geometrically-minded topologists start losing the thread.
 
anyway back to the books
 
This is the more modern language of derived categories, which is too much for people.
 
Well, if they can learn Kirby calculus, etc., they could learn derived functors if they wanted to :P
 
Lol
Not everyone is as open minded as we are
 
Oh, yeah, all the category crap is too much for mortals.
 
9:38 PM
I’ve always wondered: how do people write books? is it linearly or do you write your favorite chapters first, or is it some other procedure?
not just books; a thesis, or a project whatever it may be
 
I wrote linearly, but then I revised for many years in a row. And then I wrote the solutions manual and revised exercises and the text a bit more.
I didn't always write completely as I wrote linearly.
 
It requires more effort and patience to write a coherent story for a research paper. That is why most people don't bother to put the effort, and write badly.
In my MSc thesis I'm taking a (quasi-)geodesic path to tell the story I want to tell.
 
The one bit of universal advice I'll add is to write introductions (even to chapters, but certainly to the whole thing) at the end.
 
i made the mistake twice, of not doing that
 
And I made the mistake of sending my second book to the publisher before the solutions manual was finished. I learned for books three and four :P
@Thor @Balarka Any thoughts on this?
 
9:47 PM
 
The "mixed partials are equal" comment feels like he's trying to say something about preservation of the Lie bracket, unsure.
 
Yeah, that occurred to me.
Before the days of MSE, students would have gone to the professor's office hours and asked politely, "What the hell were you talking about when you said ... ?"
 
I wouldn’t. I can’t speak
 
you should
 
MSE has made a lot of positive impact, as well. I learnt most of my math from here. Now, it is probably true that negative impacts abound.
 
9:51 PM
or go to your TAs if they have office hours
I sat around for free more than once during mine
 
But what if Mike and I had told you nothing but lies, @Balarka?
 
What if? All of math is a lie.
 
If all of math was Lee that would be a painful place to be
 
Gotta eject
 
9:56 PM
@冥王Hades "Goin' to California, With an acorn in my heart"
 
Hi @Ted, I am sslightly stuck Assume $X$ and $Y$ are metric spaces such that $f:X\rightarrow Y$ is continuous, and there exists a $c>0$ such that for all $x\in X$, there exists an $r'>0$ such that for $r<r'$, where $r>0$, $B(f(x),cr)\subseteq f(B(x,r))$, then for $A\subseteq X$, suppose $f|_{A}$ is injective.

Show there exists an $C$ such that for $x,y\in A$, $d(f(x),f(y))\geq Cd(x,y)$.

$f|_{A}$ injective means $f|_{A}^{-1}$ exists, where $f|_{A}$ is function from $A$ onto $f(A)$.

Let $x,y\in A$. It is enough to show $d(f^{-1}(x),f^{-1}(y))\leq \frac{d(f(x),f(y))}{C}$ for some $C$.
 
Your quantifiers are awfully confusing. $r'$ depends on $x$? I don't like that.
 
no doesnt need to depend on x
 
Well, you were so busy pedantic that you wrote it wrong :) I think I would forget about $f^{-1}$ and try to do this directly. The thing we actually want to prove is the statement about $C$ and the inequality?
 
Yes, the statment about C and the inequality.
 
10:08 PM
I dunno. Do we know anything about completeness of $X$ or something?
 
@TedShifrin just that $A$ (or $K$ ) is compact
Sorry im confused, I thought you said it f|_{A}^{-1} is lipschitz above
 
If so, I'm tempted to argue by contradiction. That will localize it at a particular $x$.
Well, I was thinking locally Lipschitz, not globally. I don't know.
If $A$ is compact, I get an easy proof by contradiction. Suppose that you have $x_n$ and $y_n$ with $d(f(x_n),f(y_n))<\frac1n d(x_n,y_n)$. Pass to convergent subsequences and apply injectivity.
 
@TedShifrin if locally lipschitz then since $K$ compact implies $f|_{K}$ (globally) lipschitz
 
Well, go play with it. I'm done. :)
 
Okay your argument is all I need: Assume WLOG $x_n\rightarrow x$ and $y_n\rightarrow y$. Then, $d(f(x),f(y))=0$ so $x=y$ and why this gives contradiction?
(for A compact)
 
10:42 PM
Am I correct in my understanding that $\Bbb C - \lbrace 0 \rbrace$ is not a Stein manifold?
and that is because a Stein manifold is a closed complex submanifold of complex space
 
@monoidaltransform wdym then
exists $r', c > 0$ such that for all $x\in X$ ... ?
 
@geocalc33 Whatabout identifying it with the graph of 1/z in C^2?
 
11:02 PM
A week or so ago I found a nice family of approximations for $e$. They can also be used for $e^x$. They aren't the most efficient way to compute $e$, but they're ok.
$\lim_{x\to\infty}(1+1/x)^x<e<(1+1/x)^{x+1}$ so $e\approx(1+1/(x-1/2))^x$. If we make $x$ an integer power of 2 we can do the exponentiation by repeated squaring.
Even better, $e\approx(1+1/(x-1/2+1/12x))^x$. We can generalise this using the continued fraction of $e^{1/x}$, which has a simple form, A110185. I assume Euler knew this stuff, since he was a master with continued fractions.
Writing $e\approx(1+1/f_k(x))^x$, here are the first few values of $f_k(x)$.
k=0: x - 1/2
k=1: 1/12*(12*x^2 - 6*x + 1)/x
k=2: 1/2*(120*x^3 - 60*x^2 + 12*x - 1)/(60*x^2 + 1)
k=3: 1/40*(1680*x^4 - 840*x^3 + 180*x^2 - 20*x + 1)/(42*x^3 + x)
k=4: 1/2*(30240*x^5 - 15120*x^4 + 3360*x^3 - 420*x^2 + 30*x - 1)/(15120*x^4 + 420*x^2 + 1)
k=5: 1/84*(665280*x^6 - 332640*x^5 + 75600*x^4 - 10080*x^3 + 840*x^2 - 42*x + 1)/(7920*x^5 + 240*x^3 + x)
(Sorry, I can't figure out how to make that look nice using ChatJax).
Here's a plot showing how fast they converge:
That is, using $x=2^16$ in $f_5(x)$ is accurate to better than 230 bits.
 
@s.harp hmm okay, do you mind explaining that comment in more detail?
 
Oops, $x=2^{16}$
 
@geocalc33 No, you are not. Every noncompact Riemann surface is Stein.
 
@geocalc33 Gamma = { (z, 1/z) | z in C, z≠0 } is a closed subset of C^2 and the map C-{0} --> Gamma, z --> (z,1/z) is biholomorphic
 
Ah, the usual algebraic geometry affine trick appears again :)
 
11:19 PM
Ted do yo remember this question?
$$ A = \begin{bmatrix}
1 & 1 & 1 & \cdots & 1 \\
1 & 2 & 1 & \cdots & 1 \\
1 & 2 & 3 & \cdots & 1 \\
\vdots & \vdots & \vdots & \cdots & \vdots \\
1 & 2 & 3 & \cdots & n
\end{bmatrix}
$$
Given that $\int{\mathbb{R}^n}f dV = 1$ evaluate $\int{\mathbb{R}^n}f(A^{-1}x) dV$
 
@TedShifrin whats that trick?
 
The trick you just used.
@D.C. Yes. What's the issue?
 
No issue, I just wanted to verify that the solution I worked out is the right way of going about it.
It feels like what I did was right, but there may be some notation issues perhaps.
If I'm thinking about this properly, I could look at $A^{-1}$ as being my function $g$ such that $g: \Omega \subset \mathbb{R}^n \to \mathbb{R}^n$ and then $f:g(\Omega) \to \mathbb{R}$.

This allows me to use the change of variables formula $\int_{\Omega} f \circ g(x) |\det Dg| dV$. Now $A^{-1}$ is a linear map. And the derivative of the linear map is the linear map itself. So $\det(Dg) = \det(A^{-1})$
 
The determinant of $A$ is easy, no?
 
yes I have it...let me just format correctly
I went about calculating the determinant for $A$. So after some row reduction and all that I get $\det(A) = (n-1)!$. Which means that $\det(A^{-1}) = 1/(n-1)!$.

Bringing this all together then:

$$\int_{\Omega}f(A^{-1}x)|\det(A^{-1})|dV = \int_{\Omega}f(A^{-1}x)| \frac{1}{(n-1)!} dV = \frac{1}{(n-1)!} \int_{\Omega}f(A^{-1}x)$$

and since $\int{\mathbb{R}^n}f dV = 1$ I am left with $\frac{1}{(n-1)!}$, as the solution. My only concern is with how I treated $f$ on the last step. Was that the way to go about it?
 
11:25 PM
Isn't it easier to use $g=A$?
No, you need $\int f\,dV$ to apply the hypothesis.
 
but doesn't $A^{-1}x$ give me that since $f: \mathbb{R}^n \to \mathbb{R}$?
 
No. Are you telling me that $\int f(x)\,dx = \int f(3x)\,dx$?
 
well no. So I would have to manipulate the function we're discussing to get it into the $f(x)$ form. Oh...this goes back to the idea of shifting the intergral. I'm trying to find the exercise in SPivak that I'm talking about
 
11:40 PM
$$\lim_{n\to \infty } \, \left(\sum _{k=1}^{n+\frac{1}{2}} \log (2 k-1)-\sum _{k=1}^n \log (2 k)\right)=\frac{1}{2} \log \left(\frac{2}{\pi }\right)$$
$$\lim_{n\to \infty } \, \left(\sum _{k=1}^n 1^{\log (2 k-1)}-\sum _{k=1}^n 1^{\log (2 k)}\right)=0$$
 
Huh?
 
@TedShifrin could you elaborate why you get contradiction after passing to subsequene and use injectivity? math.stackexchange.com/questions/4712125/…
 
I found this in Mathematica.
 
@monoidal I no longer see why.
 
11:44 PM
Oh, wait. If $d(f(x_n),f(y_n)) < \frac 1n d(x_n,y_n)$, and $x_n,y_n$ are in an $r$-ball centered at $x$, isn't $d(x_n,y_n) > nd(f(x_n),f(y_n))$ contradicting the stuff about the $r$-ball at $x$ and $f(x)$?
 
Yes, but to prove by contradiction, you asserted $x_n,y_n$ are in $K$. No reason for $x_n,y_n$ to be in r-ball centered at $x$. You don't have control on where x_n,y_n live, no? Unless im being silly.
 
We assume convergent (by passing to subsequence). Then they're both converging to $x$.
 
Oh yes yes yes ofcourse
for large n x_n obviously in r- ball centered x
 
Right, and $y_n$ too.
 
cool. Thanks!
 
11:55 PM
I got caught in what you told me to be aware of Ted, fixated on the mechanics. Like you said I should've just let $g = A$. Then consider $g$ mapping from the image of $A^{-1}x$. then I can properly apply the hypothesis because $f \circ g = f(A(A^{-1}x))$. So what I'll have instead is $(n-1)! \int{\Omega}f(A(A^{-1}x)) = (n-1)! \int_{\Omega}f(x)$.
 
This heat is unreal I've ben trying to sleep for 2 hours now
 
Looks good, DC.
Where are you, @s.harp?
 
@TedShifrin germany
 
Ah, das wußte ich nicht.
 
apparently its 12°C right now
which isnt even hot, why does it feel like im cooking LOL
 
11:58 PM
I was about to say that.
 
I fell into the trap of not interpreting $A^{-1}x$ as just being a vector. I guess it would be right to call it in the pre-image of $A$
 
Preimage of $x$ under $A$, you mean.
 
Thank you
 
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