The Heap™ – Consultancy ©® - 2019-10-11 (page 1 of 2)

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1:17 AM

What a shit-show this place has become. (SE in general) It amazes me how many people are willing to just be complete dicks. But, that's the patriarchy for you, I guess.

4 hours later…

5:39 AM

@AndriyM is something that we said?

6:00 AM

@McNets The product has enterprise in the name and you expected a sane database schema?

6:12 AM

Morning

@McNets I mean, the attire those people have in my imagination leaves no room for presumption, so "they" is basically the only option :)

6:29 AM

@AndriyM sorry, it was about @MaxVernon 's comment

@TomV yep, imagine development, test and prod in the same server/instance and "they" say it is FDA compliant.

Morning, btw

@McNets Oh I see, no worries

6:54 AM

@Philᵀᴹ does it runs in cloud only?

7:07 AM

@MaxVernon It goes better with popcorn

Morning

7:19 AM

@McNets Yup

@Philᵀᴹ lucky you, I suppose it allows customisation?

Yeah, a shedload of JavaScript. It's pretty good in that regard though

@Philᵀᴹ Sage uses its own (old Adonix) 4GL, no information, no manual, you're in the hands of your partner

The documentation is pretty good. Partners less so

All the training is massively paywalled though, so it's a steep learning curve

Seen on twitter: "I identify as Michael Jackson, and my pronouns are he/hee"

3

George.Palacios

7:40 AM

Morning

7:55 AM

twitter.com/Nick_Craver/status/1182451650511937536

8:10 AM

Sad day for DBA.SE

George.Palacios

@hot2use You mean Jack?

Question

0

Q: Always On Availability Group manual failover and OS upgrade considerations

New to AG - have inherited my first existing system. Have spent quite some time reading MS docs and watching a few training videos but a) concepts seem blurred (terminology similar between different technologies) and b) all this reading raises more questions than answers. My question is essentia...

sql-server sql-server-2016 availability-groups

That is 10 separate questions on AG's

How do we deal with duplicates with situations like this?>

For me this should have been closed as a tip of the iceberg

8:32 AM

@George.Palacios yes

George.Palacios

@hot2use Yeah I agree

Forced speech is a big issue for a lot of people it seems

8:45 AM

added my two cents

George.Palacios

@hot2use Just read it.

> Moderate Moderator

I like it

Thanks.

9:05 AM

@ypercubeᵀᴹ yes, with nipples on them (6, in this case @McNets)

otherwise, NS for 'not so'

@PeterVandivier you are totally free to call a Postgres [sic!] cluster an instance, everyone will understand you, and there is not even a CoC to forbid it

@PaulWhite is it possible to kickban a mod? just thinking

@dezso No it is not.

9:24 AM

38

Q: It has been a great privilege to serve this amazing community as moderator. Thank you

Today I'm handing back the diamond you gave me in 2011. Some of you will not understand or agree with my reasons for doing so, but the nature of the community we have on this exceptional site leaves me hopeful that, though we may see the world through different eyes, we have real, mutual, respect...

discussion featured

9:37 AM

One down vote.

George.Palacios

Probably @PeterVandivier

No way to know.

@PaulWhite why is that "(only one moderator active on Database Administrators)" in the meta post?

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Because it is true.

Aren't jcolebrand and Aaron both still active?

9:44 AM

No, only Cole.

Oh, I missed that memo then! When did Aaron stop?

Moderators can take a break at any time, and often do. Aaron has been off more than on for quite a while.

user image

@PaulWhite Oh true. I had noticed he wasn't very active (on answering, commenting, etc) but I haven't been very active lately either.

Yeah people have busy lives.

@PaulWhite how do you turn it off?

9:56 AM

@McNets There's a toggle switch on the mod dashboard.

So, if you have red for resigned, orange for suspended activity, yellow for taking a break, that dashboard will look like a christmas tree by now ;)

It's not that sophisticated!

Peter Vandivier

10:15 AM

@George.Palacios slander

user image

☝️in the words of shaggy - it wasn't me

user image

I, on the other hand, have been viciously attacked

by a ravenous horde

Sounds like a lack of moderation problem

Peter Vandivier

press "F" to moderate

10:34 AM

user image

Peter Vandivier

probably because you started with "please forgive my english" and immediately followed it up with a word like "equanimous" 😂

that's like putting learner's plates on a ferrari

@PeterVandivier always apologising. sigh

Peter Vandivier

well it is very English of you

more Canadian though, tbh

channelling your inner @MaxVernon ?

@PeterVandivier I've never put a learner's plate on it. Police never stop Ferraris!! 😉

Peter Vandivier

they can only stop you if they can catch you

2

10:43 AM

@McNets they would if they could catch them

Peter Vandivier

:p

sure

Adjective: equanimous (comparative more equanimous, superlative most equanimous)

Calm and composed; of stable disposition.

Well there's a thing.

Peter Vandivier

rite tho? i did the same thing.

does @McNets have a word-of-the-day calendar or something?

@PaulWhite equanimitory?

The spanish word is: ecuanime

@PeterVandivier yep, my urban dictonary shows me one at day!

10:48 AM

Sounds risky

@McNets I had never encountered that word before.

A good judge must be "ecuanime"

@PaulWhite translate.google.com/…

@McNets Translate gives better results with longer bodies of text.

I would probably have said "calm and composed", if that is the sense you intended.

@PaulWhite here

@PeterVandivier That's why I commented, so I can't be downvoted

> He is the most equanimous judge of all I've met

10:54 AM

"equanimitory" may be something that someone added in google translate. It doesn't mean it's a real word.

Of course we could say the same for "performant" a few years ago.

fair, impartial

That works.

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Some of us still would.

That was the sense, done.

tempted to roll back. I likes the "equanimous"

Rollback permission denied due to "I likes"

Clearly not qualified

10:59 AM

Damn it. Should have said "they likes"

Still wrong 🙂

7

A: Official FAQ on gender pronouns and Code of Conduct changes

If someone votes a post up or down based on pronouns - either on specific pronoun(s) or on mere presence / absence of pronouns indication - would that be considered a punishable violation of the new CoC? If yes, how this is expected to be discovered, proven and enforced? Would it make a differen...

Which could be a "workaround"

dba.stackexchange.com/search?q=performant

11:16 AM

I have used "she" in 5 answers. Am I in trouble?

I would think by now you'd know you are constantly in trouble

2

@Philᵀᴹ If I haven't had promised myself to refrain from spending time on these things, I'd go on a quest and edit out all of them, except when they really meant performant.

Phil's follow-up query will show all those posts where the author chose not to use performant

So we can assess the scale of the problem

@PaulWhite I'm worried that I may have misgendered MySQL and Access by referring to them as "she".

@PaulWhite hopefully you don't mean me planting 'performant' in all of them

11:20 AM

@ypercubeᵀᴹ We'll have to wait and see if MySQL or Access file a complaint

What is a MySQL file anyway?

efficient: 4360 results dba.stackexchange.com/search?q=efficient (and 29 use both efficient and performant: dba.stackexchange.com/search?q=efficient+performant )

Adjective: performant (comparative more performant, superlative most performant)

(chiefly computing slang) Capable of or characterized by an adequate or excellent level of performance or efficiency.
Synonyms: effective, efficient, fast, high-performing, responsive, successful
2013, Thomas Valentine, Jon Reid, JavaScript Programmer's Reference, Apress (→ISBN), page 117:
Yahoo uses YUI in their products, and as a result it is highly performant and well-tested.
2014, Den Odell, Pro JavaScript Development: Coding, Capabilities, and Tooling, Apress (→ISBN), page 423:

(2 more not shown…)

@ypercubeᵀᴹ thats equanimous

@PaulWhite that's when the first one didn't speak good enough Latin, but the word sounded convincing enough

11:28 AM

getting salt 'n vinegar crisps out of cupboard

> This post seems to simply continue the same tone-deaf tradition we've been seeing throughout this whole debacle. Since the SE folks don't seem to be good at picking up on hints, perhaps a bit of bluntness is in order....

Cambridge Dictionary knows the word equanimity but not equanimous

Fair and imparcial matches the most with the spanish meaning

Better than "feared and imprecise"

Peter Vandivier

@PaulWhite maybe 4 u

no u

11:41 AM

a/s/l?

BTW, Spanish has a totally neutral pronoun, Usted/Ustedes, used mostly in South America. And it is totally respectful.

Maybe @Lamak knows a good translation.

@McNets "You" in English has no disrespecting connotations either. The issue is not second-person pronouns but third-person pronouns.

Peter Vandivier

11:58 AM

Español no es woke

You here could sound rude, it is used with a well known ppl

Peter Vandivier

or es woke? i really don't know tbh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

como se dice "woke"

despertó

Woke up? Despertarse, yed past tense, desperto

Peter Vandivier

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woke

Thats another thing

Maybe the old-fashioned snob?

Presuntuoso

Peter Vandivier

12:03 PM

I’m a very new-fashioned snob thankuverymuch

@McNets isn't that mainly for formal speech, to show respect?

Like "Your grace" or similar in English?

I don't think there's an exact equivalent.

It's used when you met someone you haven't met before. It no so formal as "your grace". It is commonly used,

A free translation would be using "Sir" or "Madam".

But yes, it is formal, young ppl dont use it nowadays

@ypercubeᵀᴹ yes

Tsk, kids these days

12:08 PM

Oh, I thought everyone round here used "The Great" ?

Peter Vandivier

AT LEAST ONE OF US DOES

A Queen's song, isn't it?

@McNets yes. Not originally but they made it popular (again)

The Great Pretender

"The Great Pretender" is a popular song recorded by The Platters, with Tony Williams on lead vocals, and released as a single on November 3, 1955. The words and music were written by Buck Ram, the Platters' manager and producer who was a successful songwriter before moving into producing and management. "The Great Pretender" reached the number one position on both the R&B and pop charts in 1956. It also reached the UK charts peaking at number 5. == Platters' version == Buck Ram reports that he wrote the song in about 20 minutes in the washroom of the Flamingo Hotel in order to have a song to follow...

Freddie Mercury - The Great Pretender (Official Video)

Peter Vandivier

i'm reasonably pleased with how polarising my meta reply is

+8/-4 atm

12:19 PM

I will never undertand these downvotes

Peter Vandivier

i mean... people disagree with what i said i think - so they downvote

i'm not offended

i'm pleased that what i said was clear enough that people feel compelled to actively disagree

Mobile app do not show up/downvotes

Peter Vandivier

yea, and then when you request desktop site, you inevitably end up fat fingering an up-or-downvote instead of toggling the "show score"

:)

@PeterVandivier The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant

12:24 PM

That's because you have sousages instead of fingers!

It's an idiom here

Peter Vandivier

@ypercubeᵀᴹ deep cut

@McNets om nom nom

@PeterVandivier only appropriate because of the Great Pretender above!

> The song played an important part in Rainer Werner Fassbinder’s film The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant (1972).

George.Palacios

@PeterVandivier Well we do have the same royal family

Your highness...

Peter Vandivier

@George.Palacios oh i know. my sister & brother in law live in Quebec and they're super duper extra Royalists

George.Palacios

12:29 PM

@PeterVandivier It's really, really confusing to me why so many Canadians love them so much hahaha

Peter Vandivier

my niece & nephew are named Catherine & William -_-

George.Palacios

Oh wow

Oooo

@PeterVandivier I think you live in the most royalist country.

Peter Vandivier

which extra grinds my gears because my dad's name is William and my sister swooped on the name even though her dad is named Mike

lol

George.Palacios

@McNets The UK is for sure not the most royalist these days

Most people here are neutral to the Royals in my experience

12:33 PM

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Great

Peter (Vandivier) THE GREAT

Peter Vandivier

@George.Palacios until the queen pulls the greatest third act plot twist of all time and crane kicks Boris out of 10 downing street while Mr Speaker chants "Sweep the leg!"

@McNets my new pronouns plz

the/great

Ha ha, of course

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_the_Great - I feel cheated

George.Palacios

@Philᵀᴹ Lets create him a page

Peter Vandivier

soundcloud.com/philthegreat

google.com/search?q=george+the+great&tbm=isch

George.Palacios

12:46 PM

@PeterVandivier I'm a gigantic dog

2

@Philᵀᴹ but you have

Phil of the Future

Phil of the Future is an American science fiction sitcom that originally aired on Disney Channel from June 18, 2004, to August 19, 2006, for two seasons. The series was created by Tim Maile and Douglas Tuber and produced by 2121 Productions, a part of Brookwell McNamara Entertainment. It follows a family from the future that gets stranded in the 21st century when their time machine breaks down. The series began airing again (as reruns) as part of Disney Replay. It also aired in select countries such as Canada (Family Channel). == Episodes == == Characters == === Main === Philip "Phil"...

1:09 PM

yikes

19

A: An apology to our community, and next steps

This is the third time now SE has failed in gathering feedback from the moderators on this topic. The first time was when you dumped the announcement into the Teachers' Lounge. The second time when you posted the previous non-apology to TL, ignored all feedback and just posted it on meta only 6...

George.Palacios

@PaulWhite oh boy

That ain't promising

Exactly. All the bad parts just went from the CoC to the FAQ. — Loong 2 mins ago

That was my initial interpretation too

I never look at OP profiles when I answer a question.

@PaulWhite wow

I just love the irony in job ads

user image

@MichaelGreen when you apply for that job, you can expect to get hired if you can write a proper sentence.

My personal take on the CoC changes thing aligns pretty well with this tweet

my garden this morning

George.Palacios

1:22 PM

@MaxVernon That attitude in itself isn't "inclusive" though

@MaxVernon You know Sara Chipps retweeted that.

@George.Palacios true. Just goes to prove the age-old-adage "the exception proves the rule".

Peter Vandivier

@PaulWhite so did @MaxVernon ;p

Seems a little insensitive to post that here the day Jack stepped down though.

George.Palacios

@MaxVernon That feels flippant to me

1:25 PM

@PaulWhite I don't know Sara personally, but it seems to me she's just trying her hardest to defend users who would be targeted for being slightly different. Maybe I'm wrong. You know I've been wrong before.

@PaulWhite perhaps. I like Jack and am one of his supporters for dbfiddle.uk but I don't agree with him on everything, I suppose.

I didn't mean to come across flippant

I'm not in a position to say who is right or wrong on this. The vast, vast majority of moderators support the intent behind the CoC changes. There is much anger about the way SE have gone about it.

@MaxVernon At least you didn't post it on his resignation letter I suppose.

George.Palacios

@MaxVernon I understand your view I think, but that style of thinking is very black and white for me

yah, I read most of the posts on meta.se about it, and can see that many people think they've been dissed by mgmt

@MaxVernon maybe...but doing it in a way that makes it look that trying her hardest to attack the rest of the users

I'm sorry to see Jack stepping down as a moderator. He's done an incredible job, and has been very fair in every action I've seen him take.

George.Palacios

1:30 PM

Yeah I agree on that 100%

It's a real shame

in my mind...there's no possible way of thinking that giving the real name of the mod that was fired to the news, saying the things she said about her was in any way "defending some users"

George.Palacios

@Lamak Really, really good point

it's actually so aggressive that I had a really hard time believing it was happening

completely classless

@PaulWhite yeah that too...but I think it was bordering in illegal...I don't know, maybe I'm exaggerating

1:34 PM

maybe idk not a lawyer

George.Palacios

Lawmak

I'm more interested in the principle of treating people with respect

yes, the way they handled the removal of Monica was, from what I can see, not extremely professional. I wonder if TheReg actually asked about Monica by name, since they could have easily been reading meta themselves, and just asked about it directly. I wasn't there for the conversation they had with Sara, so I don't know... just giving the benefit of the doubt.

@PaulWhite that I agree with 1000%

George.Palacios

My major issue with this whole this is the compelling of speech. If I want to just use the word THEY or OP or whatever, my interpretation of the FAQ is that I'm not allowed to do that.

My morals conflict with that on a fundamental level

@MaxVernon I thought you twited that because you found it inappropriate

1:38 PM

@George.Palacios how many times could you stand someone referring to you as "she" before it wore you down?

George.Palacios

@MaxVernon For me personally? Infinite

I wouldn't care. But that isn't my point

@MaxVernon Regardless, the quotes are quotes. SE had no obligation to respond to El Reg at all, let alone in the way they did.

@ypercubeᵀᴹ well, it's certainly not "inclusive", is it.

@PaulWhite that's true

George.Palacios

My point is if I'm already using friendly, universal language, why is there a mandate to change that?

@MaxVernon wh\at isn't inclusive?

1:40 PM

@ypercubeᵀᴹ the fact that in that tweet, they are espousing that it's good that those people are leaving SO

so you find nothing wrong with this?:
> If you’re against CoCs and to protest you’re leaving the community because the CoC has become more inclusive...

Because to me it sounds like they are twisting what the users are complaining about

chat markdown strikes again

George.Palacios

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Exactly. It's also to me saying "You agree with my opinion or leave"

That's the opposite of inclusive

@George.Palacios the problem isn't with you, or the rest of us who try to be inclusive. The problem is with that small (perhaps not so small) segment of users that insist on being assholes by calling trans women "him", or trans men "her".

People misunderstand the meaning of "inclusive".
Inclusive does not mean including people that are already included.

1:43 PM

@MaxVernon yes, but SE announcements and shoving their COC on us is hurting all of us.

@MaxVernon Yes, but is compelled speech for everyone a good solution to that?

Is anyone else confused about whether Max supports the sentiments in that tweet or not?

@PaulWhite me too

George.Palacios

+1

(pun intended)

George.Palacios

1:44 PM

@MaxVernon Yeah. Forcing speech on a small minority seems a tad "sledgehammer to a walnut" to me

There is a genuine difficulty here. The problem is the way SE went about resolving that difficulty.
They did not look to engage the community, they chose to dictate.

The genuine difficulty is reconciling "treat everyone equally" with people using different pronouns.

George.Palacios

@PaulWhite I'm not sure there is any way to reconcile those two things

@PaulWhite I'm mostly supporting the sentiment that if you have a problem with following a code of conduct, then perhaps leaving the community is a good choice. I think the faq probably goes a bit far.

George.Palacios

For me theyre diametrically opposed axioms

(see the fancy words I used there)

@George.Palacios Me either, but we could have helped them figure out the best compromise.

George.Palacios

1:47 PM

@PaulWhite that sentence makes me super sad.

They should have.

@MaxVernon I was really asking on behalf of the cube and george, but I'm sure they'll see your message.

I linked to your message to make it clear what I was talking about

@George.Palacios Damned right they should! It's obvious and the way things have always been done.

@MaxVernon Ok I see.

@MaxVernon Well, the connotation is everyone who is leaving is one of those actually disrespectful people, which is hardly fair.

2

George.Palacios

@AndriyM and also completely untrue

Jack, as an example

1:48 PM

@AndriyM Twitter is not good at nuance.

Ah yes, it's Twitter's fault

@PaulWhite ain't that the truth

Simplistic viewpoints are also seductive.

George.Palacios

Twitter is a tool. People are bad at nuance

Some people are tools.

There's not much attempt at nuance in that tweet tbf.

It's just divisive.

George.Palacios

1:49 PM

Completely agree

Like much of modern politics.

You must be in one of two camps.
And you must agree absolutely with everything that camp stands for.

George.Palacios

"My way or the highway" seems to be a standard operating model

Do you know if Jack is leaving dba.se as a user too?

@McNets You could ask on his post.

George.Palacios

Sean raises a good point - measuring offence is super difficult and wide open to manipulation

1:51 PM

@MaxVernon perhaps. Now let me ask a slightly different question. Did SE had the right to change the code of contact? Without asking the users that would be affected? The same users that have been using their platform for years? That have contributed for years? And then adding "oh you don't like it, thank you and good riddance" to those who disagree?

@PaulWhite That, in itself, sounds seductively simplistic too, by the way

I am very sad and angry that SE's incompetence has cost us a great moderator.

15

@AndriyM Deliberate.

George.Palacios

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Morally and logically, no. Legally, yes.

@PaulWhite probably. Personally, I have zero tolerance for bigots. Perhaps I was a bit quick to retweet.

Zero tolerance is a dangerous concept to me.
Especially when combined with a subjective term like "bigot".

George.Palacios

1:53 PM

@MaxVernon Some would say that pre-judging situations like this is in itself another form of bigotry

Not at all implicating that you are!

Let's have a go with the wiki bot

Noun: bigot (plural bigots)

One who is narrow-mindedly devoted to their own ideas and groups, and intolerant of (people of) differing ideas, races, genders, religions, politics, etc.
(obsolete) One who is overly pious or superstitious in matters of religion, often hypocritically so
1820, Charles Maturin, Melmoth the Wanderer, volume 3:
Donna Clara was a woman of a cold and grave temper, with all the solemnity of a Spaniard, and all the...

George.Palacios

how do?

I'll go with definition 3

prefix define: or wiki: followed by the word or phrase

George.Palacios

A wiki ( (listen) WIK-ee) is a knowledge base website on which users collaboratively modify content and structure directly from the web browser. In a typical wiki, text is written using a simplified markup language and often edited with the help of a rich-text editor.A wiki is run using wiki software, otherwise known as a wiki engine. A wiki engine is a type of content management system, but it differs from most other such systems, including blog software, in that the content is created without any defined owner or leader, and wikis have little inherent structure, allowing structure to emer...

Heh

Fun eh

George.Palacios

1:55 PM

Wiki:Aliens

Interesting.

Case sensitive?

You need the space

George.Palacios

Alien primarily refers to: Extraterrestrial life, life which does not originate from Earth Specifically, intelligent extraterrestrial beings; see List of alleged extraterrestrial beings Alien (law), a person in a country who is not a national of that countryAlien(s), or The Alien(s) may also refer to: == Science and technology == Introduced species, a species not native to its environment Alien (file converter), a Linux program AliEn (ALICE Environment), a grid framework Alien Technology, a manufacturer of RFID technology == Arts and entertainment == Alien (franchise), a media franchise Alien...

ahhhh cool

That's going to be a lot of fun

Anyway. I was saying. "Bigot" is so easily applied.

> narrow-mindedly devoted to their own ideas and groups

Why not use a more precise word.

George.Palacios

Yeah. It's used as an insult and a general "Here's what I'm going to call you so we don't have to interact anymore" rather than dealing with the underlying disagreement

Modern usage seems to be tending more to "person who disagrees with my obviously correct viewpoint"

1:57 PM

I meant bigot in the generally accepted sense of the word in the common modern parlance, i.e. someone who is intolerant of people who are not white and male.

Wow

George.Palacios

That definition makes me... unproportionally angry

That's quite the shift in meaning

It's generally accepted!

George.Palacios

#NotMyDefinition

1:58 PM

Generally as in General_BIN?

Surprised it didn't throw in cisgender

While we're being as offensive as possible to the widest possible group

George.Palacios

I think there's something interesting in the fact that we're currently communicating over 4(?) continents?

These things aren't global

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