English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-05-24 (page 1 of 2)

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user19161

1:53 AM

1

Q: Which is correct: "another think coming" or "another thing coming"?

Which is correct: "another think coming" or "another thing coming"? I have seen/heard both. Is one correct or more common?

user19161

Very interesting, seemingly trivial but non-trivial question.

user19161

I think it should get a plus ten.

3:54 AM

@ClarkKent It's pretty much a dupe.

Meysam رها در بند

4:30 AM

What's the meaning of "path of excess" in this: The path of excess leads to the tower of Wisdom

4:59 AM

@Meysam I think you're meant to develop your own understanding of what it means. Here is some background: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marriage_of_Heaven_and_Hell

3 hours later…

user19161

7:39 AM

@Meysamرهادربند 2 is a number.

user19161

Just experimenting with the number moving to the left!

user19161

It happened again, so last time was not a coincidence.

Meysam رها در بند

8:04 AM

@ClarkKent Yes It's the problem when the rtl and ltr languages are combined.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

8:37 AM

0

A: How should I ask for a bill in a restaurant politely?

gimme da motherf*cking bill nigga!

1

nouns politeness word-choice

Some people are just morons.

8:49 AM

@ClarkKent It's because if you backspace from a region when you have an RTL region to your left, the next logical position is to the LEFT of the RTL bit.

The thing about Meysam's user name is that when you have LTR to the left of RTL, it's actually ambiguous which one you should read first.

Meysam رها در بند

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Did you remove the comment?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well can you see it?

@Meysamرهادربند It's kind of his job to.

Meysam رها در بند

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 No

Well, not exactly his job, but, you know.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

8:53 AM

So.

Meysam رها در بند

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 So can we conclude that you removed it?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well if it's no longer there I suppose someone did something about it.

Meysam رها در بند

Why do you remove funny comments?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I suffer from severe misanthropy.

@Meysamرهادربند It's not funny, it's sick.

Meysam رها در بند

8:56 AM

@DavidWallace I guessed so

What's the meaning of nigga?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nigga

Meysam رها در بند

Oh, I see it's a racist comment

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@DavidWallace doesn't really matter if it's funny or sick or neither. It just doesn't answer the question. That by itself is enough to justify removal.

Yes, you're right. But the racism makes its removal even more justified.

Meysam رها در بند

@DavidWallace And well justifies the suspension of his account too

9:09 AM

Well, absolutely. But that may have been for a different reason; you and I are not privy to these things.

Matt Эллен

But my example doesn't use would but rather would have which is the conditional past and doesnt make sense here. — Noah 2 mins ago

no, noah, when a native speaker says it makes sense, they're more likely to be right.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I guess I'll side with my sock for once, though I do have a record of reducing native speakers to despair by revealing to them how spoke English really she is.

Matt Эллен

aye, but in this case it was Barrie, who has a good track record

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I think I'll rename myself into Reg Scotland. Or perhaps Reg World.

Or just Super Reg Galaxy.

Matt Эллен

Will you have a raccoon suit?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

9:24 AM

Whatcha mean, will? What's wrong with the one I have?

Matt Эллен

The tail's not as fluffy as it used to be, there is a hole wearing in the crotch and it's covered in food stains.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You must be describing yours.

Mine is in alphabetical order.

Matt Эллен

You're wearing my suit now?! I aught to charge you rent

10:19 AM

So, since neither BE nor J.R. answer a specific part of Noah's original question, does the would be alone in I think they would be alone refer to the present or the past?

(and the wouldn't have in Noah's question isn't the conditional perfect, it's the epistemic modal)

Matt Эллен

Barrie answers

> Would, and its negative, can be used to describe habitual past actions.

> Would

Matt Эллен

right

What about would have?

Matt Эллен

that's in the second sentence

> In your example, wouldn’t have been alone indicates that those concerned travelled in company on most, if not all, occasions.

10:23 AM

So essentially he says that would = would have

describe habitual past actions = travelled in company on most, if not all, occasions

Matt Эллен

I don't know what he's trying to imply. they're separate sentences.

I don't know either. The answer doesn't make sense.

So does would equal would have in that context, as implied by BE's answer?

Matt Эллен

in Noah's example you can use either and they both refer to the past, because of the context

And what would be the difference between those two in that context?

Matt Эллен

but, by itself, "I think they wouldn't be alone when travelling" can refer to the past or future

or present, even

@Vitaly nothing off the top of my head

10:28 AM

@MattЭллен yeah, and that's what was bothering me when I said that neither post answered a specific part of the original question, namely,

> Shouldn't this simply be "would be"

Matt Эллен

it's a style choice, as far as I can see

So the difference lies in the formal–informal plane?

Matt Эллен

more likely just how you like to think about problems.

could be on the informal/formal plane

I would probably say would have because it makes it clear that it the past

would makes it clear you're being hypothetical

without have it kind of implies an timeless generalisation, I guess

no, not hypothetical

That makes sense, thanks.

Matt Эллен

um

yeah, I guess hypothetical. I'm not sure

10:35 AM

Heh.

Matt Эллен

think already makes it hypothetical. "I think they hadn't been travelling alone"

I had tried to find anything, something about that difference in my references (including CGEL) before posting in this chat and failed.

Matt Эллен

ok, I guess it's the habituality that Barrie talks about

So Noah has actually asked a good question, IMO. (If only he had also realized that it isn't the conditional perfect but the epistemic modal.)

Matt Эллен

maybe it's two layers of hypotheticality - I think -> this is my imagination, would -> I am imagining their minds.

user19161

10:40 AM

Linux Mint 13 is out! I tried the Cinnamon version. It is buggy in several places, so not better than Ubuntu Unity.

Matt Эллен

Then I give him +1 for stimulating this discussion!

I'll give you +1 if you post an answer elaborating on the difference between I think they wouldn't be alone when travelling and I think they wouldn't have been alone when travelling (also mentioning that it isn't the conditional perfect, for Noah's sake) :P

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Yes, there are different types of nuts on ELU, but they are all nuts.

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly I'll have to read up on epistemic modality first...

user19161

@Vitaly I think I may know the difference...

user19161

10:45 AM

The first seems to talk in general while the second seems to talk about a specific instance in the past.

user19161

But this is just my gut feeling.

@MattЭллен actually, has it been answered on the main site before?

Matt Эллен

possibly

0

Q: would have and would in non conditional statements

Can we use both would have and would in non conditional past statements? For example: Last year during the summer, I would go home on weekends. past habitual Last year during the summer, I would have gone home on weekends. Last year during the summer, I would have completed three pr...

user19161

Who here speaks Turkish?

10:49 AM

By Noah, no less. Wut.

user19161

I'm still wondering why JSB talked about Turkish grammar.

Matt Эллен

lol

user19161

What is the lol for?

user19161

Also Pacerier finally stopped starting his question with good afternoon all.

Matt Эллен

because noah might have duped himself

also

5

Q: When should I use "Would", "Would have", "Will", and "Will have"?

I hope someone, once and for all, can clarify (with examples) the difference in usage of will vs. would vs. would have vs. will have.

user19161

10:51 AM

@MattЭллен That is why you must use the right arrow. I thought you were loling over Turkish grammar.

@All: Hai

@DavidWallace: Hi mate

FF's answer just says that there is no real difference, semantically.

@SankarGanesh Hello. I hope you are feeling better.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 England is not an uncommon surname. I believe that Barrie England is more than likely using his real name here.

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly indeed. He complains that the phrases aren't good for explaining the differences

off topic / NARQ:

-1

Q: Error analysis and grammar

1.did'nt anyone else here that loud party going on last night?I was already to call the police when it finally quieted down at 3AM.

11:07 AM

@MattЭллен yeah, well, I don't believe in perfect synonyms either.

@DavidWallace yes i said to my mind , donot relay on others , you never care others affection

@SankarGanesh Good.

Hey, I can't talk now; I have to leave.

Good night all.

Night.

@DavidWallace Gud NIght , have a Sweet Dreams

Matt Эллен

CU David

@Vitaly but they're easy to create! Bregun means the exact same thing as jurbof

11:33 AM

0

A: Wouldn't have been alone

The meanings of wouldn't be and wouldn't have been are slightly difference in this context. I think they wouldn't be alone when traveling means: I think they were never alone while travelling. Just enunciative. I think they wouldn't have been alone when traveling means: I think they never allow...

Eh?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@DavidWallace I know. It's just a meme of this chat.

12:32 PM

2

Q: English words mockingly derived from French?

According to Wikipedia, up to 30% of English words come from French, and I'm interested in a special subset of them. Not "loan words", but words that seem potentially derived in jest. For example, "hoosegow" seems to be a tongue-in-cheek corruption of the Spanish "jusgado". Three possible examp...

etymology word-usage french

^ cute, but not constructive

Morning.

From an 1855 printing of a 1596 text, I think I might have found the first ever emoticon rolfol!!! :)
http://books.google.fi/books?id=C2QLAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA247&img=1&pgis=1&dq=%22under+his+belt%22&sig=ACfU3U1G23vZ6Lnqt_CG4H8DeIBSqIrGQg&edge=0
http://books.google.fi/books?id=C2QLAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA247&dq=%22under

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

0

A: Relative clauses: integrated, restrictive, non-restrictive, supplementary

stupid!!!!!!!! hahahah i will kick your ass anjing bangsat koplok sia tai hahahah paya KAMUSEUPAY !! dodol lw sampah jink

WTF

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus back on American time?

clearly he doesn't like relative clauses

12:47 PM

@MattЭллен Hmm yes, sort of. How's your sleeping?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus acceptable, but could be better.

@Hugo Haha, you mean :) ?

Matt Эллен

I woke up tired this morning

@Cerberus Yep :)

Surely that is as old as writing...

@MattЭллен Hmm could it be because of the heat?

Matt Эллен

12:49 PM

possibly

Or, wait, is it hot in England?

Matt Эллен

yeah, it's hot here :D (well, hot for England)

So 12 °C?

Matt Эллен

yeah, about that :Þ

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Come on, Barrie can handle that.

12:50 PM

Is there a country with lots of sun, very moderate temperatures all year round, and little rain?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Mars.

You call that moderate?

Matt Эллен

lots of sun and a moderate temperature?

I'll give you the sun and the lack of rain.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Cerberus I am a moderator for a reason. Duh.

12:51 PM

@MattЭллен Yes.

Matt Эллен

how would that work?

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Haha, I didn't know you also moderated Mars.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

On Thursdays I do.

@MattЭллен Well, an island with little rain?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus why do you think so few wars break out?

12:52 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I thought Mardi was Mars Day.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Congratulations on your thought!

Matt Эллен

Thor's day

@MattЭллен Hmm and I don't usually see a huge image of Lolcats projected on the surface.

Matt Эллен

a day for avengers

Thor = Jupiter, not Mars.

Matt Эллен

12:53 PM

@Cerberus there's no XKCD on mars

In terms of weekdays.

@MattЭллен I suppose that would be the first thing to be censored.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

"Mars" is "sram" backwards, which is Russian for "private parts".

Matt Эллен

Clearly a conspiracy of solar system proportions

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

0

Q: grammar question

"Due to it will have less features than actual standard system, the performance will be better." Basically, I used sentence after "due to" and one of my English friends said it does not make sense and not grammatically correct Could anyone tell me whether this sentence is grammatically correct ...

grammar grammaticality

Someone edit this please. I'm too tired.

Matt Эллен

Editored

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:59 PM

Aww now my most very thoughtful comment is obsolete.

Matt Эллен

sure it isn't! it's just as unobsolete as it was before

user19161

@hugo I see your absolutely brilliant comment there.

user19161

Hello @andrew!

@ClarkKent Hi!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

> Due to lesser features than actual standard system, the performance will be better.

Someone seriously suggests that.

I don't think lesser means what they think it means.

1:03 PM

I've been proof-reading some Engrish. github.com/sprk2012/sprk2012-cfp/pull/48/files has a proposal titled "Inside Sqale's Backend" - does that sound a bit wrong, or is it just me?

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 My suspicions of Rudra have been confirmed. Possibly another Thursagen.

Matt Эллен

@AndrewGrimm only if Sqale is a person...

@MattЭллен Thanks, I needed that!

Matt Эллен

No probs!

user19161

@MattЭллен I don't understand what you are talking about.

Matt Эллен

1:06 PM

@ClarkKent well, it would be a bit weird to describe being inside someone's backend. unless we're reading some crude fiction.

otherwise it's fine

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

If you are a French bread, you are constantly in someone's backend.

Matt Эллен

le pain de merde

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Un pain dans l'âne.

Matt Эллен

lol

user19161

I see Rudra's edit with the parentheses. Facepalm.

user19161

1:15 PM

Now it does not mean the the should be there but that it is optional.

user19161

This is a confirmed Thursagen.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2 days ago, by Matt Эллен

you mention this a lot... I think you are Thursagen!

user19161

I declare that Thursagen=Kris=Rudra. QED.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Nah, Thursagen=sockpuppeteer, I=Santa Claus, Santa Claus !=sockpuppeteer, so I !=Thursagen.

Matt Эллен

gah tchrist is trying to enforce the less/fewer distinction

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

1:18 PM

Yeah.

Sneaky.

user19161

I shan't comment on the less/fewer until I have studied the entire CGE.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Matt Эллен

1:36 PM

broken air con -> free icecream!

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Haha brilliant.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Hm. @Mahnax is still at exactly 6000. No money for jam?

Matt Эллен

we need to get him 27 reps, so he has exactly 10K across all communities

if there is a way to do that with out messing up the 6K here, even better!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:29 PM

1

A: What part of speech is "back" in this sentence?

I knew the answer but I had to confirm with my MAC AIR built-in Dictionary. Allow me to simplify. The word back has 4 uses in speech; Noun Adjective (Adds to a noun or object) Verb Adverb (Adds to a verb) Consider re-phasing your sentence so the meaning is the same, when in doubt. from Put...

Was ist das?

> You get a point, if you can choose the correct answer easier this way.

... and if I can't, you lose a point.

2:40 PM

Huh, how come RL&U is at 84% already? And which of those am I supposed to pick if I want to commit and push the readiness level (but still not lie)? @Reg

user image

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Um.

I have no idea whether the level plays a role at all.

But if it does, I would guess Professional or Expert trumps them all anyway.

A “professional or expert” in Russian is someone who has studied the language at an academic institution. An “academic or research-level student” is someone who is currently occupied with studying. I am certainly not an avid enthusiast about Russian. Certainly not a beginner either. And what is “just curious” supposed to mean? I fail to see an option that would match a native speaker of Russian.

Matt Эллен

go with prosumer then

Haha.

Matt Эллен

Well, it seems most logical

you don't research it, but it's your mother tongue

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:44 PM

@Vitaly you are giving it way too much thought. Any native speaker of Russian would just click on "Professional". If you give it any thought beyond that, you are an Über-Professional.

LOL

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well that's how it is.

Matt Эллен

I am a professional English man

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Heck, I can barely tie two words together and I am going to click "Expert".

As it turns out, all my commitments have been released, so I have three to throw away again.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Well, it's an itch I have the urge to scratch.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:47 PM

You can scratch it when the site goes live.

I think I'll go with “Expert” then, as long as I have academic references on Russian handy.

Yay, we two gave it another 3%!

Matt Эллен

hmmm. for some reason I've been release from my commitments to linguistics and cogsci, but not fulfilled them

magic!

@MattЭллен That would be grand!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

user image

Matt Эллен

oh, I see. 6 months after the beta I get my commitment back anyway

2:52 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Hahahaha.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MattЭллен I was commited to Boards, Cards, and Games, or whatever it's called, for 1½ years.

Matt Эллен

I'm still committed to bitcoin for some reason

I'm sure that's been in beta for ages

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You have to pay seven bitcoins to set yourself free.

Matt Эллен

ah. I don't have 7, will 8 do?

user19161

@Vitaly Well, maybe these categories should be rewritten to begin with.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:54 PM

Why do all these people have 51 reps?

Is that a virus or what?

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/10848/…

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 50+1=51.

They get +50 rep for verifying their e-mail or something.

Yay for referrals.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Ah.

OMFG, Anna is a mod on 13 sites.

2:55 PM

Ooh, maybe I'll commit to RL&U.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 uh, anna is community thingamijig, shouldn't she be a mod on all sites?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Ah. Oh. Is she?

user image

:(

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Yeah.

user19161

@Vitaly It closed because you are the higher power.

2:58 PM

May 11 at 12:54, by KitFox

No flirting in chat.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

"Closed" is the Chuck Norris level of "fulfilled".

I fulfilled that site TO THE GROUND.

Matt Эллен

15

Q: Who are the Community Managers, and what do they do?

Who are the Community Managers? What do they do? What is their relationship to the "Community" user? Return to FAQ index

support faq stackexchange moderators community

she's on that list

user19161

@Vitaly Geezis, nowadays everything is considered flirting.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent will you quit it!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MattЭллен stop it already, I believe you!

Matt Эллен

2:59 PM

NO! I must provide evidence!

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