Root Access

Bob

4:01 AM

@Dog which cooler was that?

though mini-ITX is definitely not what I need :P

Dog

Mind you that's also with a 4-core 80w Skull Canyon vs a 6-core Westmere

@Bob be quiet shadow rock lp

tweaktown.com/reviews/7470/…

Journeyman Geek

Heh. @Bob New place now says I don't have the experience for the job they're so desperate to fill.

I'm starting to wonder if they're a visa scam place ;p

bwDraco

I was thinking about the upcoming Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X HEDT chips. Unlike previous generations of HEDT processors, they will not be based on server chips. Future Intel Xeon E5 and E7 processors are on the LGA 3647 socket shared with socketed Knights Landing (Xeon Phi) many-core processors. (In contrast, Broadwell-E chips are based on the Broadwell-EP LCC die.)

Dog

Looking at that, pump noise or not, the Corsair H110i in quiet mode is pretty much as quiet as the quietest air coolers around

Bob

@JourneymanGeek wat

Journeyman Geek

4:11 AM

yup

Bob

@Dog huh. decently-proced too :P

I was thinking about going overkill with one of them $90 Noctua coolers

Journeyman Geek

I responded "The resume is accurate, though I sent lithian a less detailed version - here's the full version"

Bob

@Dog wtf 70db

Journeyman Geek

"Since, naturally my application and resume were tailored towards the role I was talking about with L rather than this one"

Bob

isn't that hearing damage levels?

Journeyman Geek

4:12 AM

@Bob noctua's fans are nice

Dog

@Bob lol I noticed that too

If I had that I'd most certainly be undervolting or outright replacing the fans

@Bob nah, unless you're a fox and don't have a noise dampening case

Bob

currently considering a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO, Corsair A70 (to complement the case+PSU? :P), or an unknown Noctua one

not sure yet

@Dog oh, 80 was damage

70 is just annoyingly loud

ridiculously annoying loud

> vacuum cleaner

Dog

@Bob remember the old delta screamers?

Bob

@Dog nup

Dog

@Bob google.co.uk/…

Ridiculously noisy high performance fans. The best of the best. Made by Delta and affectionately named Delta Screamer by us tech nerds...

Apparently only 60dB o_o

Conor

4:19 AM

@Bob I have a Ubuntu device that I run a lot of intences like a NAS, PLEX, ZNC, etc and I have a lot of other devices that need to connect to it on the local network but I also enable a VPN for torrenting. The VPN of course doesn't allow any connections, but I thought I allowed the local ip range in the IPTables settings once to make it work.

Dog

(also, at 10-15000 RPM you'd be at serious risk of injury if you stuck your finger into one that was running at full speed)

Bob

@Dog "only" lol

bwDraco

@Dog I have a 62 dBA case fan. It's jury-rigged to run off a USB port at a lower speed via a voltage regulator.

(AFB1212GHE-CF00)

Bob

@Conor You should probably make sure your VPN is not routing that specific local range.

Do a route -n and go from there.

bwDraco

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213001

Conor

4:27 AM

@Bob ok thanks

bwDraco

Also, @Dog, please consider unblocking me. (@Bob)

allquixotic

furorteutonicus.eu/2013/08/04/…

that helped

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco @Dog will see the request on the transcript at some point. But if he's blocking you, you clearly don't want to talk to him

allquixotic

used macvtap to get win2k16 running

Journeyman Geek

>_>

what hypervisor?

Dog

4:29 AM

@Bob well being the loudest fans around, I'm surprised to see something more modern version louder

allquixotic

kvm

Journeyman Geek

ah

@allquixotic traditional bridges arn't that hard tho

bwDraco

I have in fact run the fan off a 12V supply. It needs to be secured to something to avoid being a safety hazard.

Dog

Delta were the ones you turned to as a last resort if you absolutely had to have the most airflow possible and didn't care about your eardrums

Journeyman Geek

Delta is what servers often use ;p

Dog

4:30 AM

These days they only find use in high performance rack servers

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek They're utterly reliable. Mine has a double ball bearing.

It's meant for rackmount servers (namely of the 3U variety).

Bob

@bwDraco ...yes, securing a fan to something tends to be quite useful

Dog

And even then, almost always in conjunction with dynamic speed control and rarely at max

Journeyman Geek

Ok, I sent an email to the training place telling them that the new place is being 'strange' and I'd be grateful if they tried to get in contact with <original client> or for similar opportunities.

Dog

The only time Dell R430s run their fans anywhere above 50% is when you take the cover off while it's running, at which point it defaults all fans to 100%

At that point I'm more concerned about securing my hair than the fans...

@JourneymanGeek I don't transcript

Bob

4:34 AM

@Dog wait, why?

Dog

@allquixotic oh are you still learning about the peculiarities of macvtap

Journeyman Geek

that's funny/annoying

searching for transcript shows quoted chat

Dog

@Bob probably because theres no guarantee the airflow will be channeled through the designed airflow channels properly

Bob

@Dog ah

Dog

Most servers have full height fans in the middle that pull air in the front and blow it out the back. With the cover off there's no seal at the top so the suction gets impaired. There's also usually shrouds to route airflow around the passive CPU heatsink and RAM and PCIe slots, etc, which can come loose or be removed with the cover off

Bob

4:38 AM

I've only ever dealt with tower servers

which are also much quieter :P

Dog

It's basically the BIOS going "we've no longer got fully controlled airflow routing so lets just turn everything up to 11 and hope for the best"

It might also have the side effect of making it easier to identify which fan has failed if you have to locate one to hot swap

Bob

ahhh Thai food

"not that spicy", they said

Dog

Lol

My ex-flatmate would be asking them for the spiciest thing on the menu and then add double the chilli

And then he'd complain it was "not that spicy"

bwDraco

Delta case fan connected to USB via voltage regulator

►

(my phone can record 4K but I can't trust it to not stutter at resolutions above 1080p)

Journeyman Geek

4:59 AM

@Bob the thermal solutions on rack servers are basically "ALL THE AIR" in as little space as possible. Damn the noise

man. I miss that :(

bwDraco

Just a quick-and-dirty video, not edited, no nothing.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob spicy != hot tho

Bob

@JourneymanGeek bleh, in this context...

Journeyman Geek

;p

Most people get that wrong.

also, I think there's the whole cultural thing

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I'm not about to ask them about the piquance

Journeyman Geek

5:06 AM

"Is it hot?"

yes

That is accurate

Bob

and hot is sometimes confused for temperature

so... yea, spicy is a safer choice

Journeyman Geek

also much like iocane powder one builds up a resistance to it....

Bob

@JourneymanGeek fine, "not that hot". same-same, pedanticism aside

point is they described it as being fairly mild. I do not consider it mild at all.

Journeyman Geek

Memorable Movie Death #3: Vizzini From Princess Bride

►

bwDraco

Did you see the USB fan video I just posted?

bwDraco

5:25 AM

anandtech.com/show/10999/ces-2017-nvidia-keynote-live-blog

(can't find the right words)

That's really interesting. NVIDIA is essentially renting out desktop PC gaming servers. It's not cheap ($25 for 20 hours) but the end goal seems to be to enable people who can't afford a gaming PC to experience high-end PC gaming.

> a virtual machine on demand that can link into your Steam account

Well, it is in essence a gaming VPS.

Psycogeek

they can pay double instead by the hour (and paying for the games also) , cheaper than "Rent To Own" :-) but between the bandwidth issues , the known lag that must exist via our present internet system, and the costs, it is going to have a specific following.

to me it is just more "subscriptioning" everything. which generally costs much more , just due to the extra paperwork, and customer service , problems, and the usual cost overruns if it ever gets really Used by many and many.

bwDraco

The concept is not foreign to me. I have a Linux desktop in the Linode Cloud.

Sep 21 '16 at 1:07, by bwDraco

It's a bit of an experiment of mine, but one that's proved to be useful in several situations. The cloud desktop instance has an Xfce desktop and has been used to remotely print files to my printer at home, act as a SOCKS proxy, and run a few graphical applications. This instance doesn't do anything directly or indirectly tied to a public Web service—these are on the main server (which, as it should, has no GUI.)

Psycogeek

all these companies want to pre-own your paycheck, before you even get it (subscriptions:-)

bwDraco

It is a bit of a surprise to me, though, that NVIDIA would extend this idea of a cloud desktop to run AAA games on a cloud server.

Psycogeek

it isnt "Green" or in reality cost effective. because a lot of these thing start out cheap, then the price gets normalised , IF somehow everyone rolled with this stuff, it would end up costing more to do the same things, just because it takes 2 computers, 2 powers, requires a transport method to exist.

bwDraco

5:40 AM

I do find the the cost to be a serious concern, though. The base cost of $25 for 20 hours means it's going to be a rather niche solution.

Psycogeek

yea i can certannly see some people doing it, but the words the real gamers toss around about it, would indicate if it will ever go anywhere.

bwDraco

Then again, the instances are designed with constant heavy CPU and GPU load in mind, since you're going to be gaming on it. That does explain a big portion of the cost.

This is very different from normal cloud servers, where most systems are nowhere near fully utilized.

Psycogeek

that cute in your face pricing, was also (like all bait pricing) not the totals. in the next sentance they indicate that better service , better performace would be more money again. bleed people till they take more economical and practical routes, and there wont be enough support for such things.

in the US , say it was the perfect thing to do fully mobile gaming, even if they intertwine the 5G network providers into it, the rediculous Data Fees in the US will mean that everything online always , will not be (affordable) for everyone

bwDraco

Anyone else got an opinion on the new GeForce NOW?

This came as a surprise to me, even as someone who runs a desktop in the cloud.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco nvidia's been pushing this sorta thing a while

didn't they have an older service for this?

ah yes

shield.nvidia.com/grid-game-streaming

bwDraco

5:50 AM

@JourneymanGeek The idea with the older service is that you paid for access to the games themselves and they ran on servers you had no control over; it's SaaS. This time around, it's gaming IaaS; you're renting a VPS designed for desktop gaming, and you bring your own games from your Steam library to the service.

Journeyman Geek

Which means though they need to store/download the games. Not sure how that would be charged.

I guess it's a textbook case for data dedup tho

Psycogeek

from "Running from the web" to "running on the web" , it all still has to run on your computer :-)

HackToHell

dell.com/en-us/shop/…

cc @allquixotic and all american guys

20$ for a 256 gb ssd

Journeyman Geek

0_0

HackToHell

@JourneymanGeek I'm 100% jealous

Journeyman Geek

5:56 AM

Yeah

lol

funny thing is if I had a job I'd buy a bunch ;p

(and just get it shipped through some service)

Psycogeek

not to worry the 25%-off all get the single burnt pixel units :-)

HackToHell

oh, are those services cheap ? @JourneymanGeek

Do you have any links

Journeyman Geek

@HackToHell these are light

I think my samsung SSD was about 15 dollars to singapore

@HackToHell I use comgateway - but @Bob had some issues with them

HackToHell

India has import duties too :(

And that's on the mrp f the ssd

Journeyman Geek

ya

here's the thing

duties for me is on sticker price + shipping cost

and if its under 200 dollars its free

HackToHell

5:59 AM

@JourneymanGeek oh that's awesome

Journeyman Geek

So I paid duties on the crossover

HackToHell

I have to pay duties on all items

Journeyman Geek

but not the phone.

HackToHell

and the ports are notorious for loosing things

Journeyman Geek

Since...

they declared it as a 5 dollar case.

HackToHell

6:00 AM

....

bwDraco

(it's not quite PaaS because that's abstracting away the underlying OS, instead providing a set of APIs for implementing specific functionality; it's IaaS because you are interfacing with a Windows desktop, albeit a prepackaged one designed to run games)

Bob

SaaS. Service as a Service.

EaaS. Everything as a Service.

allquixotic

lol

HackToHell

AaaS - Guess what

Journeyman Geek

ATTAAS!

All The Things As A Service!

allquixotic

6:12 AM

BaaS - Business as a service - all you do is tell them what you want and they run a business and give you part of the profits

Bob

@HackToHell Huh. WD does SSDs?

Must... resist... buying...

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic that's probably what the big companies do

@Bob they're sandisks

bwDraco

@Bob WD acquired SanDisk.

HackToHell

@Bob reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/5m46xe/…

bwDraco

So the idea of gaming IaaS really intrigues me. I am wondering about the technical challenges associated with this, though...

Journeyman Geek

6:14 AM

reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/5m46xe/…

looks like its a badge engineered sandisk x400

Michael Hampton

6:28 AM

Bought 5 since that was the limit, got order confirmation and card charged

bwDraco

...not that I need them. I am not too happy with SanDisk's mainstream SSDs given the reviews, and I'm not spending money on hardware I may or may not use in the future.

HackToHell

Nice

bwDraco

For me, it's Samsung all the way.

Congrats on your purchase nonetheless; I know some of you need them for your PCs.

Journeyman Geek

^^

Michael Hampton

Don't really need them; they're all going on eBay. I've already got my fill of 400GB, 500GB and 1TB SSDs

Journeyman Geek

6:33 AM

That size's my standard for most first line builds, but now's a terrible time for hardware purchases for me

Most of my gear is perfectly fine

bwDraco

I consider 512 GB-class SSDs to be the baseline for my (planned) builds. Budget builds may get 256 GB-class drives.

Journeyman Geek

(that said, I'd be tempted if I was building the storage box I really want)

bwDraco

I would rather buy proven reliable storage solutions that I know will deliver the performance I expect, first time, every time.

Michael Hampton

Funny part is, for my desktop I bought a 1TB SSD a few weeks ago to replace an old 240GB SSD that's coming to the end of its life

Journeyman Geek

eh. I have room for odd stuff

Michael Hampton

6:35 AM

for $169

Bob

Ok. Getting a NH-U14S, I think.

bwDraco

I've got a 512 GB 850 PRO in my laptop as the system drive and a 500 GB 850 EVO in an enclosure as scratch space.

Journeyman Geek

That off brand chinese SSD I bought was an excellent buy since 1) I want the PC its on to die eventually 2) I used it as a reason to get my dad off XP.

Bob

Oh, hey @MichaelHampton

when was the last time you were here? :P

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek I would probably just get a 250 GB Samsung SSD 750 EVO.

Journeyman Geek

6:36 AM

And my only system on spinning rust boots up in 2 seconds

Michael Hampton

Who knows, 2014?

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco now I would.

bwDraco

US$75 direct, proven Samsung reliability and performance even at the low end with planar TLC NAND.

Journeyman Geek

Well, no. I'd just say "meh its dead" and build/buy a new system

allquixotic

huh, a harrymc answer that wasn't a bounty just saved me a lot of time

Bob

6:38 AM

Ow. $100.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic an old or a new one?

allquixotic

2

A: Windows 10 in KVM: change boot disk to Virtio

The steps to follow in general are : Install the VirtIO drivers in the VM Set the system disk of the VM to use VirtIO If the VM does not boot, execute Startup Repair or even Repair Install The procedure in detail is : Return the boot disk to IDE. Make sure the windows VM is shutdown. Downl...

Bob

That's a good 10-20% of just CPU+mobo+RAM

...maybe grab one of those $20 coolers and upgrade later if necessary

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic see the revision history ;p

bwDraco

@Bob Consider the CM Hyper 212 EVO?

That's the standard "budget" air cooler.

Bob

6:40 AM

4 mins ago, by Bob

Ok. Getting a NH-U14S, I think.

@bwDraco Ya, I mentioned that a couple times today.

Journeyman Geek

Harry's really good at finding stuff, sometimes. Its his ability to synthesize information that's slightly flawed at times

Bob

That would've been the default option.

Now I'm wondering if I shoud do what @Dog did and go up to the HX750i :P

just go all out (in?)

Journeyman Geek

lol

do you need all that power tho?

Bob

@JourneymanGeek was planning on RM750i

bwDraco

500-550W is all you need for lower-grade builds.

Bob

6:42 AM

HX750i would be a sideways upgrade (Platinum, supposedly much better build quality)

Journeyman Geek

ah

Bob

about $30 difference

Michael Hampton

@allquixotic I've done that, but it wasn't on Super User

Journeyman Geek

eh. its 30 quid

go for the better one ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek welllllll

bwDraco

6:43 AM

Most mainstream systems don't even draw anywhere near 500W even under load, but that's about as low as you can go before quality starts to fall off a cliff.

Bob

@bwDraco shush, the whole point here is to go overkill :P

Journeyman Geek

@Bob 30 quid is literally comparison shopping money

Bob

the discussion's in the transcript somewhere anyway, but I wanted to have more headroom cause the Corsair PSUs turn off the fans under a certain load (30%?)

bwDraco

Is this an HTPC?

Bob

@bwDraco My primary desktop.

technically I could scrape by on 400W.

Journeyman Geek

6:44 AM

@bwDraco not everyone feels the drone of fans is soothing.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek bedroom. usually on 24/7. fans aren't bad, but I wanted to try for a silent one this time

Journeyman Geek

then quiet is good

bwDraco

@Bob I'm not normally annoyed by a little bit of fan noise even at night, but some prefer complete silence when the machine is idle.

Bob

I don't care overly much about it, but I'm also expecting these parts to last a decade

will probably upgrade before then anyway, but won't hurt :P

bwDraco

...hmm. That's a pretty high demand. In that case, I'm willing to suggest the AX860i.

Bob

6:46 AM

if I decide to do SLI in three years, etc

bwDraco

(AX series = flagship)

Bob

@bwDraco see now, that pushes it up to $310

that's a $100 (30%) difference

Psycogeek

:-O

bwDraco

If it needs to last ten years, I wouldn't even consider anything below the flagship tier.

Seasonic Prime 650?

Bob

@bwDraco put it this way, my current cheapo has been running fine for 5 years

5+ actually

Journeyman Geek

6:48 AM

@Bob real cheapo? ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ...sorta

Great Wall (GW)

Journeyman Geek

Cause I remeber having a conversation about my previous preference for no name PSUs ;p

Bob

it's... not exactly a known brand, but apparently it ended up on the list of "decent" PSUs :P

bwDraco

GW is not a small brand.

The same can be said for CWT.

allquixotic

well this is bizarre

I'm upgrading Windows Server 2016 Standard Evaluation to Windows Server 2016 Standard

in-place, without reformatting or losing apps/drivers

Journeyman Geek

6:50 AM

lol

nice?

Sounds like what you'd do between windows 10 builds

bwDraco

@allquixotic Don't forget your CALs

Bob

unfortunately, I can't really get an AX760i easily here

bwDraco

One last thing as it's getting late here: AMD announces flagship X370 chipset

Journeyman Geek

@Bob I still consider PSUs vaguely disposable

as long as they don't take the rest of the system out with it.

bwDraco

Not me. I consider the PSU an infrastructure component, along with the case and motherboard.

I will never skimp on a PSU. Ever.

(partly because replacing the PSU in an assembled system is not easy with a lot of potential for error)

Journeyman Geek

6:55 AM

rofl

I consider PSU swaps roughly on par with changing a tyre

Bob

@bwDraco ...it's pretty easy

I'd be more scared about replacing the CPU

or mobo

or even CPU cooler

damn paste

hmmmmmm maybe an AX860i

bwDraco

@Bob Well, I did replace the paste on my laptop's GPU a while back...

Bob

@bwDraco also, HXi has a 10 year warranty too

compare HX 7 year, AX 7 year, AXi 10 year

bwDraco

To be honest, though, CPU and GPU heatsink removal are pretty easy on this laptop, requiring little more than removing screws in a particular (and well-marked) order.

Psycogeek

and getting into the laptops case itself, before having access to the heat sink to begin with?

bwDraco

7:07 AM

Again, just a bunch of screws.

It's a Clevo. They're a lot easier to service than most.

Bob

Ok, if it makes @bwDraco happy (:P), the AX860i is a maybe.

Eh, I have a month to decide.

bwDraco

lol

Bob

Not entirely convinced that it's any better than the HX750i/HX850i equivalent.

bwDraco

The choice is yours. HXi is certainly worth a shot, though.

Bob

Annnnnnd I might go back to the RM750i, depending.

Psycogeek

7:16 AM

here is a weird one. what happens when i backfeed a real OTA antenna through the "cable" which has the itnernet feeding down it?

Bob

tbh, they'd all work

@bwDraco They're all far better than what I'm currently running.

But this was supposed to be one giant upgrade for me, soooooo. I can spend a bit more.

My budget for the whole lot was (very loosely) ~$2000

case <$250, mobo <$400, CPU <$500, RAM <$300 (?), ... should be doable

hopefully before the aud tanks more :P

Psycogeek

sounds like it already has

case 40-80$ , mobo 250 , cpu 350 , ram 160-300 (32gig) , video card 300-(rediculous) 600 SDD $80 HD 4t $100

the variation for the accessories, is much huger. keyboards for $5 or for $90, monitors for $100, or good oens for 300+ mices from $5 to $79

psu from ~$50 to ~170

Journeyman Geek

7:47 AM

Hmm. Nice. USB c to USB 3.0 with charger passthrough. It's 50 dollars but I got 2 for about 32 dollars.

Psycogeek

Big B&M shakeups occuring in the US . K-marts (cheezy discount department store like walmart) Sears (mid quality everything store) and Macys (higher ticket premium clothing & accessories)

Already many "malls" had been going a bit ghost town, IMO they could all sucessfully compete against online, but dont, and that is one of the larger reasons why they are bailing out. News like 36% of the market activity was online (amazon) and each of the B&Ms got thier 6-16% , which Should be enough to continue operations.

Funny thing is the malls around here served, fed , breeded :-) young people who would have a nice place to hang out, without concidering that none of them actually had money to spend :-)

Now the same young people would find it difficult to get out of thier chair , I, I, mean , are the bigger patrons of the online thing.

Journeyman Geek

@Psycogeek that is a pretty big generalisation

Psycogeek

8:02 AM

Malls and the Big stores (like macys and sears and even k-mart) are a symbiotic team. The "Big Box Stores" bring in the customer base, that the smaller shops could then feed off that same trough. When the "big box" store closes, this can (often) lead to the whole mall and hundreds of shops becomming ghost towned.

So while a "few" large stores are closing a "few" of their locations, these things can break way more of the "economy" of the area.

tereško

ehh

so I was just told by "internet expert" that gtx1060 nees as minimum 650w PSU

Bob

@tereško fail

Psycogeek

weird, i have a video card and computer that uses 2+X that power and a (great) 620 works fine.

tereško

odd, isn't it

headdesk

Bob

@tereško 120W TDP

tereško

8:14 AM

i know

Bob

pretend it's 150 for safety/peaks

tereško

also the build in question goes with 6600k, which is 90w

Bob

chuck in a cpu and mobo, 300W min

450 safe/plenty

I'm only going overspecced for fanless :P

Journeyman Geek

@tereško B's.

Psycogeek

I had the problem of trying to get "efficient" power, and most of the (gold/bronze) PSUs are most efficient when supplying about 2/3rds that power. but much of the time any computer is using way less than the max.

Journeyman Geek

8:16 AM

620w handles a 980 ti fine

tereško

@Psycogeek if you really care about effectiveness, you have to look at the graphs in the spec :)

Bob

my 1080 m i7-2600 never hits 400

tereško

that's pretty old chip there

2010ish

Bob

@tereško still works fine