Language Overflow

2:10 AM

In the previous **[question][1]** I was told that these sentences are clumsy and their meanings are confusing:

- Being taken to the hospital, he survived.

- Being beaten by the snow, he died.

Can I convert these sentence into meaningfull sentences as follows:

>1. Being taken to the hospital, he died.

(To mean: while he was being taken to the hospital, he died)

>2. Being beaten by mother to her son, the father arrived.

(To mean: While the son was being beaten by his mother, the father arrived)

@yubrajsharma yes I have noticed your question, just don't know how to answer that that will be helpful for you. Just one thing I want to share with you is that context sometimes play a huge role in deciding the meaning.

For example -

If you hear somebody say that there is a barking dog, you should imagine that there is a dog that is barking at the time.

But consider the situation where a doctor talks about two dogs and he says This one is mute dog, but this yellow one is a barking dog.. It might mean that that yellow dog might bark at that time or it generally barks, not mute like the other dog. It might not bark at the time of the speaking of the doctor.

3:00 AM

I think it would be better if you read my previous question and the answers given for it.I tried my best but could not understand.

@man from india, I think should have asked the questions differently but I didn't how to.All I want to know is strting the sentence from "being+past participle" as I have shown in my examples too

I thought that starting sentence with" being+p.p" gives the meaning the past participle continueous in passive as said by "P.E Dent". But I don't know what "continueous present participle in passive voice means".

For example:

3:27 AM

@Man from india1."Being taken to the hospital,he died."
Does it mean "while he was being taken to the hospital,he died"? Or do I have to add "while" in front of "being" in the sentence to get that meaning ?
If this(1) sentence doesn't give that meaning, is it worthless to start the sentence with" being+past participle" ?

3:46 AM

@yubrajsharma you are right about the meaning of that sentence.

You can use while too. That gives the same meaning.

4:00 AM

@Cardinal Russia Today is a propaganda outlet, be very careful when you use it

> In 2017, the Russian Government will cut state healthcare spending by 33%. The sum allocated for outpatient care, for instance, is a mere RUB 69 billion, versus RUB 113 billion in 2016. At the same time, the Russia Today channel will be funded to the tune of RUB 17.5 billion. (in the TV still, a hand holds a banner saying "Propaganda Kills")

Putin takes money from the people and funnels it into this channel to prop himself up

SpringLearner

6:10 AM

hello everybody

7:11 AM

> The current export freight rate that covers a range of shipments, including mineral fertilizer shipments, includes a 13.4 % overhead (?)

I'm not sure how to call this.

In 2014 Russian Railways instituted a 13.4% increase over their standard rate to account for the sudden inflation and crisis.

@Cardinal But I do admit that Putin sometimes shows a good sense of humor

Q: Looking for a proper term for "rail freight surcharge"

7:23 AM

0

From a text I'm translating: The current export freight rate that covers a range of shipments, including mineral fertilizer shipments, includes a 13.4 % surcharge. Russian Railways officially charge the same rate as they charged back in beginning of 2014. However, in the summer of 2014 the...

word-request translation

V.V.

7:43 AM

Includes extra 13,4%

Nice, but can we say "this extra was introduced in 2014"? I would need that in subsequent sentences

Surcharge might fit

Good afternoon!

@Modarater, I was warned to take my comment to chat from so I have here put my opinion in this chat as my question. I wanted to invite @Mari-uA, but She was unable to come here in chat room and chat here. Could you please allow her to involve in chat ?

Lurk mode on

> Снижение цен на минеральные удобрения и аммиак одновременно с повышающим коэффициентом к экспортным железнодорожным тарифам уже привело к тому, что доля железнодорожной транспортной составляющей в цене удобрений выросла по ряду направлений до 20-30% от стоимости продукции, подчеркивает РАПУ.

@yubrajsharma We have no users called "Moderator". You might message Mari by an additional message on the main site and invite her here.

BBL

V.V.

@CowperKettle check linguee.ru

8:03 AM

@yubrajsharma as far as I know, she didn't come here ever. You can reply to her comment inviting her for chat.

Q: Can I post essays for evaluation here?

8:14 AM

What's wrong with extortion? — P. E. Dant 4 mins ago

^_^

@V.V. I know, but it often offers outlandish variants

Stack Exchange

8:58 AM

0

In TOEFL exam for example they ask you to write essays to test your English level, and I am preparing for the TOEFL. Can I post essays so users can evaluate if my essay is good or not, or they may suggest some changes. Can I do that here?

support

10:01 AM

@CowperKettle Yes. Almost all the medias are tools, but RT's point of view is sometimes more close to the realities than the CNN's narratives. I just usually check RT's news, because I think CNN, F24 and DW do reflect whole of the story!

@yubrajsharma Just a hint: we can't ascertain the intended meaning of a sentence without considering its context. Nor can we confine the meaning of a sentence pattern or a construction. In short, we need to consider its context, and no real sentence stands on its own out of its context.

It's of little or no avail to try to do so.

We can't be sure of the meaning of a word without its context (because a word can have several meanings). Likewise, we can't be sure of the meaning of a given sentence without its context.

@DemkernjWhat is the name of Modarater of ELL ? How can i connect to him ?

You can find the list of our moderators on our Users page.

Here is its direct link: ell.stackexchange.com/users?tab=moderators

If you want to chat with @MariLou A in this room, you can post a message on the main site (in a question of yours that she's in), telling her that you want her help and you're waiting for her in the main chat room.

10:37 AM

(0:

Took only two months to get to the Urals

@CowperKettle Yay!

Yay indeed! Hope yours arrives soon!

I didn't get mine :(

Ah, you must've missed this message:

Oct 11 at 10:54, by Damkerng T.

♪ I got the shirt... I got the shirt! ♪

Hey, since I have gotten mine, yours must come too, @Man_From_India ji!

10:39 AM

I'm sure yours will arrive soon! @Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Ah!

(0:

:D

@CowperKettle i don't have any experience of buying stuffs from abroad. Do I have to give excise duty and all?

@DamkerngT. it's bad :( we are neighbour. We should

@Man_From_India I don't have it either!

I should have got it by now :D

10:41 AM

@Man_From_India Hehe! I'm sure it's this week or the next. :-)

@CowperKettle how you got it? I mean you got the courier people's call?

@Man_From_India A post-man called my doorphone and said I can come to the postal station and collect it

Oh I see. It's as simple as that.

Or I could pay RUB 100 and he would deliver it to my flat

Since the station is a 10 minutes' walk away, I just went and took it

In my case, the postman just left mine on my fence!

10:44 AM

(0:

(Good thing it didn't rain that day!)

Hehe

(0:

Ljdhameliya

11:12 AM

helo

hello

from where to start learning english

i want to learn english speaking

V.V.

@CowperKettle oh, you've got it! Glad for you! So people, don't lose hope.

@Ljdhameliya just start talking.

Q: Is there a 'generic we' in English?

11:38 AM

1

Some languages around the world use the generic we instead of English's preferred one or you. I have noticed that some people, when asking questions on this site, use we in this generic way. For example: How do we say hexadecimal numbers? Why do we say that we "observe" traditions? How do we p...

grammaticality

Will "we" get an answer? That's also a question. :-)

11:51 AM

How can I chat with modarater of ELL ?

@yubrajsharma If they come to chat, you can talk to them.

However, if it's a private matter, you should consider asking them to make a separate room, or make a custom flag.

Welcome to chat BTW.

Snailplane and ColleenV tend to visit this chat. Snail does it much more often than any other mod.

@Rubisco Do they come In this chat room?

Yes; this is the main chatroom for ELL.

You can ping them if you have something to discuss, but please don't ping them a lot.

How to chat with them privately?

You have to ask them to make a separate mod-only room.

That room should only be used for mod-related things though.

You can't just expect a chit-chat there.

11:57 AM

FWIW, I think it's rare that a user will need to chat privately with a moderator.

@DamkerngT. Yes. \o

o/

Ok I got it

Writing a meta post could be another solution.

A: Can I post essays for evaluation here?

@DamkerngT. Well, yubraj should first tell us what the thing they want to discuss is.

All of this conversation might have been avoided by one ping to Snail.

2

Such requests would fall squarely under the "proofreading" umbrella, and be promptly closed. Thank you for asking about it first on meta. Let me take this opportunity to reiterate why open-ended proofreading requests are discouraged on ELL. If they were allowed, ELL could quickly turn into a ...

For a moment there I thought it was Peter answering.

12:07 PM

Demkernj T I just wanted to know that ...nothing more than this

@Man from India I had asked a question before,you might have forgotten

Problem for me: I think I should have asked this question http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/106638/being-taken-and-being-beaten/106653#106653 differently but I couldn't know how to ask.
All I want to know is starting the sentence from "being+past participle" as I have shown in my examples too
I thought that starting sentence with" being+p.p" gives the meaning the past participle continueous in passive as said by "P.E Dent". But I don't know what "continueous present participle in passive voice means".

@yubraj a writing tip, if you don't mind. If you pay attention to the spellings and make less mistakes, people will take you more seriously online.

You're more likely to get help from experts too.

@Robusko I have tried my best to do so.But I expect help from experts too

Half of my previous message:For example "Being taken to the hospital,he died."
Does it mean "while he was being taken to the hospital,he died"? Or do I have to add "while" in front of "being" in the sentence to get that meaning ?
If this(1) sentence doesn't give that meaning, is it worthless to start the sentence with" being+past participle" ?

@Robisko What do you think of my question?

@yubrajsharma You shouldn't expect help. This is free, voluntary work.

You can expect them not to be rude, but you can't expect them to answer you.

That's like thinking they owe you something, and they don't.

@yubrajsharma No construction is worthless in language if it exists.

But your example isn't exemplary.

There are some verbs we don't like to use or think of that way.

> Being a jerk, I refused to help the old man.

The sentence above flows well, but yours doesn't.

I can't explain the why very well, lemme think.

It might be because dying doesn't logically follow the sequence of 'going to the hospital'.

I mean, if you're taken to the hospital, you're expected to live.

But when you say 'he died', you imply that taking him to the hospital killed him.

It has a humorous implication to it, but definitely is not what you want to convey.

Your thoughts, @Dam?

12:26 PM

I think we should understand sentences in context. :-)

(ﾉ＾◡＾)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻

2 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma Just a hint: we can't ascertain the intended meaning of a sentence without considering its context. Nor can we confine the meaning of a sentence pattern or a construction. In short, we need to consider its context, and no real sentence stands on its own out of its context.

Sorry, wrong link!

Being ..., ... is rare, though, FWIW.

In case rare sounds too strong, you could read it as "not very common".

@DamkerngT. It's too string! It's too string!

LOL -- Oh, my soft keyboard!

Thanks for pointing that out!

Not that I didn't enjoy it

12:32 PM

:D

1:08 PM

@yubrajsharma first, tell us what is troubling you one by one. Not all at one go. And also tell what you have learned so far. From others or from any book or Internet.

(it's better for a starter, not to discuss anything too general. Maybe one doubt specific to one sentence. Kind of like this. This way, it might be helpful, now that you are on chat.)

@yubrajsharma I have left you one msg earlier today regarding this, with the example of Barking dog. Did that explanation make any sense? If not, tell me, I will try in some other way :-)

I can see a sleeping face. Oh hi @Catija.

Jim Reynolds

1:54 PM

Some of you may be jealous, but I hope you can share in my happiness in response to some good news.

I recently received a t-shirt. I believe for "most excellent contributor to the ELL community". I'm so proud!

Anonymous

@JimReynolds Congratulations! Did they remember to include your crown?

Jim Reynolds

I'm sure that was delayed. XD

Gold and precious gems probably need special clearing through customs.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't think it's too common. There are some superficially similar constructions:

Anonymous

> Being the first to go to the Moon on Apollo 8, that was something I really enjoyed.

And stickers!

1:58 PM

@JimReynolds Congratulation @Jim :-) yes I'm jelous coz I didn't get it yet :'(

Anonymous

This one is an example of left-dislocation. Being the first to go to the Moon on Apollo 8 was moved out of subject position, and that took its place.

Anonymous

> Being a young man who was gay and restless, I always knew I would live in New York.

@JimReynolds Congrats!

Anonymous

There's a legit example. I'm looking at COCA :-)

@snailplane A-ha!

Anonymous

2:00 PM

> Being a sheltie, Becca enjoys herding the Canada geese that wander up from the pond and nature area behind the house.

Anonymous

> Being avoided like a bad rash, I turned to a radical diet of popcorn and Diet Coke to slim down.

I tried to find such a sentence in my Kindle books (only novels so far), but nothing came up!

Anonymous

(Yikes, what the heck is that sentence from? :-)

Anonymous

> A few minutes later, they picked up the automated distress call. Being closest, the crew of Draw Three was obliged by law and custom to render aid.

@snailplane Some comedy, perhaps. :)

Being avoided like a bad rash, I turned to a radical diet of popcorn and Diet Coke to slim down is quite close to @yubrajsharma's sentences.

Jim Reynolds

2:03 PM

@DamkerngT. Seems more like a tragedy

Hehe!

Evening all

Evening!

Anonymous

> Students are much more receptive to a philosophic approach - one that puts reason before reverence. Such an approach, in fact, fits well with many of their predispositions and allergies. Being inclined toward cynicism, students are suspicious of pious story-telling.

Anonymous

> Being a childless woman of childbearing age, I am a walking target for people's concerned analysis. No one looks at a single man with a Labrador and says, "Will you look at the way he throws the tennis ball to that dog? Now there's a guy who wants to have a son." A dog, after all, is man's best friend, a comrade, a pal. But give a dog to a woman and people will say she is sublimating.

Anonymous

2:07 PM

> Being too polite to tell some bore to shut up, he instead would interrupt by telling a story.

Anonymous

> Being the world's leading military and economic power since 1945, the United States has been considered by Japan, South Korea, Thailand, the Philippines, Singapore, and other East Asian states as the most important player in ensuring the region's strategic equilibrium. With the election of President Clinton, however, those states assumed that Washington was about to downgrade its role by withdrawing from East Asia or at least reducing its forward-deployed forces.

Anonymous

There's no shortage of examples.

Anonymous

I don't think it's a construction everyone uses in daily speech, so I think you're probably justified in saying it's not very common, but it definitely gets used.

> I, being born a woman and distressed
By all the needs and notions of my kind,
Am urged by your propinquity to find
Your person fair, and feel a certain zest
To bear your body’s weight upon my breast:
So subtly is the fume of life designed,
To clarify the pulse and cloud the mind,
And leave me once again undone, possessed.

Yubraj, Yes both of your sentences have identical meaning. But your sentence #2 is much more common, especially in daily conversational English. Though the first one is not incorrect, it's more common in fiction/literature. @Mari-LouA already commented that your second sentence is far better. I think it's in line with the data analysis Biber et al demonstrated in LGSWE. — Man_From_India 2 mins ago

2:08 PM

@snailplane nods -- Most are stative bes though.

@JimReynolds I received it today

(0:

@man from India I have read your sentences about" barking dog" and understoo what you meant

I'm happy to have received examples about starting sentence with" being+past participle"

It says that in circumstance adverbial clause (notice the use of adverbial, CGEL would probably call it adjunct) the finite clause is most common, then to-infinitive clause, and the third most common is ing-clause. @DamkerngT. @snailplane

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Oh, can you tell me what page?

@snailplane page no. 825-826

2:13 PM

I'm having trouble to chat here Due to the problem to chat here using mobile device

Anonymous

Particularly common in fiction, it says, but extremely rare in conversation.

I never tried to chat on the phone

Nokia 114 doesn't support to chat here in this website

@yubrajsharma For android device there is a chat app. ChatSEy

@yubrajsharma oh sorry!

So I'm now using smartphone but with the heplp of "data"

2:15 PM

@yubrajsharma mods are here. You can ping them.

How to ping ?

A tablet might give you a better SE chat experience.

just use @ this sign and then type the name. Snailplane is a ELL mod.

Man from india Here in this room ?

yup she is here in this room.

2:19 PM

But I wanted private chat@man from india

Please ask her. I can't help in this.

Ok

@snailplane I was warned to take my comment to chat from

http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/106047/past-participle-vs-beingpast-participle/106091?noredirect=1#comment213121_106091
so I have here put my opinion in English Language Learner chat rome as a question. I wanted to invite @Mari-uA, but She was unable to come there in chat room and chat.I think she has been banned to chat.so, Could you please allow her to involve in chat ?

I think she has been suspended or banned

@CowperKettle How did you buy them?

ELL is making money

That sounds cheerful!

@Cardinal They sent them for free

@yubrajsharma If that was true, it would be strange.

2:22 PM

well, for 450+ posts

I never knew that ELL issues warning unless anything too rude (that too I haven't noticed)

@CowperKettle Nice!

Anonymous

@yubrajsharma I'm sorry, she won't be able to chat any time soon. That's because of her suspension on ELU, and I'm not a moderator there so I have no control over it.

Oh, it happened on ELU.

Oh there is suspension on ELL/ELU :O didn't know that.

2:23 PM

Now Mari-Lou is suspended?

@Man_From_India o_O

@Cardinal I don't even want to know lest I get suspension :P

@Man_From_India Sure. The entire SE system has a way to prevent users who are problematic in some way from using the site.

ok

@Catija She doesn't seem to be problematic (at the surface!)

2:27 PM

Oh, FFS. Why do you have to suspend people who are openly helpful? She has even advertised that she's willing to help and take help!

Moderators are generally encouraged to work with the user first before issuing suspensions, though... I'm quite certain that the ELL team did what they could before issuing the suspension.

That doesn't sound like a person who'd violate terms on the flimsiest of grounds

Word of the moment: Chionophile

2

@Cardinal thanks for mentioning me

@CowperKettle 0:-)

2:29 PM

@Cardinal something about snow and liking snow? :P

(0:

Sure!

@Cardinal I don't have any details of this specific situation and I don't know that the moderators are going to discuss it. It's generally something that is kept quiet as it's not appropriate to advertise those sorts of decisions.

Anonymous

Mari-Lou is not suspended on ELL. She's suspended on ELU. I'm sorry, but I can't talk about why she's suspended on that site.

Let's go back to on topic discussion.

2:30 PM

I hope she does not get upset and leave like Avicenna

@Catija Of course.

She mentioned that while she's suspended on ELU, her suspension extends to sister sites too. I'm not sure what grounds would dictate such a harsh sentence.

@S.R.I Yay1

Anonymous

@Cardinal What does chionophile mean?

@S.R.I Only as it relates to chat.

Anonymous

2:31 PM

@S.R.I That's just a consequence of how the SE chat system works.

@snailplane It means animals or people who like cold weather

Anonymous

@Cardinal Like Cowper Kettle! :-)

@snailplane Exactly!

@Cardinal Ah, I was so close!

If you are suspended on your main site, you are blocked from chatting anywhere on that chat server.

2:32 PM

Aha

@Catija Ahh, I see

I'm sure not a Chionophile. Just a Sinophile. :P

@DamkerngT. That's really tricky!

Hee

@DamkerngT. Both too hot and too cold is not good for DT, I guess :P

2:35 PM

Hehe!

:-)

@DamkerngT. I meant this:

@Man_From_India I'm pretty sure @DamkerngT. will survive anywhere in Asia, except perhaps Mongolia!

> "A Sinophile or a Chinophile is a person who demonstrates a strong interest and love for Chinese culture or its people."

Wikiped.

"Chinophile " vs "Chionophile"

#GHL

Haha!

2:37 PM

:D

@S.R.I he will, in Mongolia too :-)

@S.R.I Probably true, but not too far up north.

I'm sure nobody says "Chinophile". From what I have seen everywhere, it's Sinophile

nods

@Man_From_India Heh

Anonymous

2:41 PM

Yeah, I think people generally use Sino-. For example: Sino-Japanese but not Chino-Japanese.

Q: Meaning of "his footwork ginger and smile smug"

0

Sindhu, in fact, became a shuttlecock, so to speak, between Telangana and Andhra Pradesh chief ministers K.C. Rao and N. Chandrababu Naidu, respectively. Both tried to appropriate her success by bestowing lavish felicitations and money. Naidu even went to the extent of playing a few points of ...

meaning-in-context word-meaning phrase-meaning

his footwork ginger?

does that make sense? Does it mean that his footwork is poor?

@Man_From_India missing punctuation, batman!

Anonymous

It does make sense. We can understand it as an elliptical form of His footwork ~~being~~ ginger and ~~his~~ smile ~~being~~ smug.

Anonymous

As for the question of which meaning of ginger is intended,

That's fine, but what does ginger mean there?

2:47 PM

Yes, that does make sense.

Anonymous

This is a back-formation from gingerly.

I thought there was no comma, but there is. Footwork ginger, smile smug are all weird use of English, but it is correct

Anonymous

So to understand it, look up gingerly instead.

@S.R.I In complete sentence it's fine.

I'd take issue with "became a shuttlecock", but that's just me

2:49 PM

@snailplane Ah got it. Careful footwork.

The quoted sentence in that SE question is definitely correct

@S.R.I Maybe the writer was trying to allude to badminton. :P

@S.R.I It's in the context of badminton. The player is a badminton player.

@DamkerngT. right

@DamkerngT. Yes, the person that paragraph was talking about is an Olympic Silver medal winner from India

Oh! Ahh, I see!

2:50 PM

@Man_From_India I know. I'm Indian :P

:-)

@DamkerngT. This person

Nice!

6:29 PM

> Now stole upon the time the dead of night,
When heavy sleep had closed up mortal eyes:
No comfortable star did lend his light,
No noise but owls' and wolves' death-boding cries;
Now serves the season that they may surprise
The silly lambs: pure thoughts are dead and still,
While lust and murder wake to stain and kill.

Word of the midnight: shinrin-yoku (森林浴)

Forest bathing

In Japan, a forest bathing trip, called shinrin-yoku (森林浴) in Japanese, or sēnlínyù (森林浴) in Mandarin and sanlimyok (산림욕) in Korean, is a short, leisurely visit to a forest. == History == A forest bathing trip involves visiting a forest for relaxation and recreation while breathing in volatile substances, called phytoncides (wood essential oils), which are antimicrobial volatile organic compounds derived from trees, such as a-pinene and limonene. Incorporating forest bathing trips into a good lifestyle was first proposed in 1982 by the Forest Agency of Japan. It has now become a recognize...

Citing Wikipedia,

> The evidence and scientific studies that are being applied have been developed in children and their relationship with Shinrin-yoku.

What is Shinrin-yoku?

Anonymous

@Rubisco Sino-Japanese 森林浴 shinrin'yoku is literally shinrin 'forest' yoku 'bathing'.