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Bob
4:00 PM
speaking of macs, the one at work wanted to update iMovie... 3 GB update?! and iPhoto... 2 GB update?!
 
It's Elementary OS.
 
Bob
we don't even use those -_-
 
My question is:
Is it running on Watson?
 
heh. that style of dock has been around for ages
 
So could someone explain amperage and stuff to me?
 
amperage is the measurement of the flow of electrical current through a circuit
 
I'm planning to funnel lots money towards photo equipment.
 
@bwDraco is that your site?
 
so the rate at which electrons move?
 
@Burgi Of course not.
 
4:14 PM
@Burgi so the rate at which the electrons move?
 
The ampere (SI unit symbol: A), often shortened to "amp", is the SI unit of electric current (dimension symbol: I) and is one of the seven SI base units. It is named after André-Marie Ampère (1775–1836), French mathematician and physicist, considered the father of electrodynamics. The ampere is equivalent to one coulomb (roughly 7018624100000000000♠6.241×1018 times the elementary charge) per second. Amperes are used to express flow rate of electric charge. For any point experiencing a current, if the number of charged particles passing through it — or the charge on the particles passing through...
 
!!/wiki Electric current
 
An electric current is a flow of electric charge. In electric circuits this charge is often carried by moving electrons in a wire. It can also be carried by ions in an electrolyte, or by both ions and electrons such as in a plasma. The SI unit for measuring an electric current is the ampere, which is the flow of electric charge across a surface at the rate of one coulomb per second. Electric current is measured using a device called an ammeter. Electric currents cause Joule heating, which creates light in incandescent light bulbs. They also create magnetic fields, which are used in motors, inductors...
 
electrical charge is measured in ???
 
at what scale?
normally volts
 
4:17 PM
what are coulombs?
 
charge = volts
current = amps
 
Voltage is potential difference that can lead to movement of electrons (think of it as water pressure). Current is the actual flow of electrons (think of it as the size of the pipe).
 
@bwDraco so, the force that causes attraction?
waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait
so Voltage is only the difference from 0 or ground?
 
Yup.
 
so like a vacuum tube
but the opposite
 
4:21 PM
Higher voltage will cause higher current in a simple resistive circuit.
 
The power supply is PUSHING volts
 
Wattage is the product of voltage and current.
Increasing resistance reduces current.
 
the computer is PULLING those volts at a certain amperage
 
Exactly.
 
And the computer is consuming the charge of those electrons, measured in V
at the rate that the electrons are moving, measured in A
electrons have limited charge, correct?
 
4:34 PM
Coincidently, I'm doing homework on this exact topic right now...
V=IR
@varfirstName no, charge is measured in coulombs
V is potential difference
 
than why did Burgi say it's volts
 
a rare mistake
 
Volts is difference from ground
 
mark it in your calendar so you may tell your grandchildren
 
4:42 PM
0
A: Pronunciation of "Wiki"

DavidPostillThe only adequate reference for this must be the correspondence between Patrick Taylor and Ward Cunningham, who was the person to coin the term Wiki. From Correspondence on the Etymology of Wiki: The Question (by Patrick Taylor) I was wondering if you could fill us in here at the dictionary...

 
Dog
I'm a caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa‌​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa‌​aaaaaaaaaaaaaat!
@varfirstName No
@varfirstName No
@varfirstName No
@varfirstName No
@varfirstName Yes
@varfirstName No
@varfirstName No
@Burgi Yes
 
Did you intend the word to be pronounced as wee-kee (rhyming with leaky) or as wick-ey (rhyming with sticky)?

I believe the former is the proper pronunciation though I've been known to use the latter. My preference would be that the word be pronounced as a Hawai'ian would, and that wick-ey be an acceptable alternative.
 
Limited as in, they expend their charge
 
From Ward himself.
 
Dog
@Bob I thought IE was supposed to GDIAF anyway
Also foxes that run in front of vehicles on a narrow tight blind corner should go die in a fi... never mind
@varfirstName No
 
4:44 PM
So they have infinite charge?
 
Dog
@varfirstName No
 
they are the charge?
 
Dog
@varfirstName Yes
 
Dog
@varfirstName Yes
 
Bob
4:47 PM
@Dog smartscreen is part of windows 10 too
 
So what is voltage? the potential difference between a source of electrons, and a grounded destination?
(in charge)
 
As in the work done to move an electron is measured in volts
 
One sec, let me open my text book
 
so the force required to move an electron?
wait
 
4:50 PM
One sec...
 
Bob
wat.
 
Dog
@Bob OUch
Voltage, electric potential difference, electric pressure or electric tension (formally denoted ∆V or ∆U, but more often simply as V or U, for instance in the context of Ohm's or Kirchhoff's laws) is the difference in electric potential energy between two points per unit electric charge. The voltage between two points is equal to the work done per unit of charge against a static electric field to move the test charge between two points and is measured in units of volts (a joule per coulomb). Voltage can be caused by static electric fields, by electric current through a magnetic field, by time-varying...
 
Bob
"cone NAT"
 
Electric current is expressed by the amount of charge flowing in unit time
 
I don't want current
I want voltage
 
4:51 PM
Or rate of flow of charges
 
Dog
@Bob You haven't heard of that before?
 
Bob
@Dog It'd be useful to know which of them it is.
 
Dog
There's even three different types of cone nat!
Oh
 
Potential difference is work done/charge
 
4:52 PM
Oh
 
Bob
Also it'd be useful if I could manually forward ports, but bleh.
 
Dog
Ice cream cone
 
Measured in volts
 
Dog
@Bob Wait what?
 
4:52 PM
@varfirstName
 
Dog
What is this abomination where you cannot manually forward ports?! :-o
 
Bob
@Dog mobile wifi thingo. trying to host a server on it.
maybe I'm just not looking in the right place
 
@varfirstName The key thing to remember is that the electrons go the other way to the current.
 
V=W/Q
 
Bob
4:53 PM
ooh, DMZ
good enough
 
Dog
@varfirstName I want sex, but we can't always get everything we want, eh?
Oh wait I can
 
So it's a sink of electrons not a source of electrons :)
 
Lol
I like physics
 
so is voltage the amount of force that a capacitor supplies to overcome the difference in the charge of the source and destination?
 
Dog
@Bob Indeed, but it's also the first I've heard of a Cat 4 CA device
 
4:55 PM
@varfirstName Uh... Not really
 
Dog
@varfirstName No
 
Work and Force are very different in physics
 
The amount of work to move 1C @ 1A/s?
 
Dog
@Bob I don't think even ARM can do 3Ghz in 4.5w
 
@varfirstName no no no
Wait...
 
Dog
4:58 PM
Though it might come close, with a single core
 
Dog
(The above statement being a merely (mis)educated guess)
@varfirstName STOP
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
It's loading extremely slow
 
5:02 PM
Yeah
 
Dog
That's what SHE said
 
@varfirstName let me find another link
 
What?
 
SO 1 volt is the potential discharge of a 1 farad capacitor charged with 1 coulomb
 
Dog
5:04 PM
THIS is what she said:
@varfirstName No
 
FUUUUUUUUUU
 
Dog
Voltage is not potential anything
It's the potential difference
 
Archive.org mentainance... Are you kidding me?
 
So 1 volt is the potential difference between a grounded destination and a 1 farad capacitor charged to 1 coulomb?
 
Dog
Did you even read the wikipedia article on voltage?
 
5:06 PM
Yes
 
Dog
@varfirstName No
@varfirstName Evidently not understood it then
 
what is it equivalent to?
> A voltage may represent either a source of energy (electromotive force), or lost, used, or stored energy (potential drop).
> A voltmeter can be used to measure the voltage (or potential difference) between two points in a system; often a common reference potential such as the ground of the system is used as one of the points.
 
Dog
Voltage isn't equivalent to anything
 
yes it is
 
Dog
1 volt is equal to the difference in potential between one end of a 1 volt battery and the other end of a 1 volt battery
 
5:11 PM
1C = 1F*1V
therefore 1C/1F = 1V
 
Dog
I can't tell if you're having trouble understanding what voltage is or trying to derive some other value from voltage or vice versa
 
1 coulomb is equal to 1 farad * 1 volt
 
@varfirstName you are going into irrelevant complicated stuff
There you go
Chapter 12
 
Dog
Uhuh... and?
 
@varfirstName I think you need to revise the basics
1 volt is 1 joule/1 coulomb, but that's not relevant here
@Dog it's what I'm studying from right now
 
Dog
5:15 PM
I still don't quite see the point you're trying to get at
 
so voltage is the maximum charge that can be transmitted between two points?
 
Dog
!!facepalm
Voltage is not charge
 
A volt is a quantifiable measurement
WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT EQUATE TO
OTHERWISE ITS QUANTITY IS ARBITRARY
OH
 
Volt is resistance * current
V=IR
 
Dog
5:19 PM
@varfirstName Yes, yes it is
 
1 volt is 1 ohm at 1A?
 
R=resistivity*length/area of crossection
 
Dog
@varfirstName Read the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on Voltage
@varfirstName No
1 volt will drive 1 amp of current through a resistance of 1 ohm
 
@varfirstName if a current of 1A passes through a resistor of 1 ohm, the potential difference is 1Volt
 
Bob
I zoned out of this convo loooooong ago
 
Dog
5:22 PM
Assuming a current source of infinite charge
 
@varfirstName read the PDF... It was written for school kids, you ought to be able to comprehend it
 
Dog
@Bob You are a wiser man than me Bob. Though I've said that before.
 
We aren't school teachers, that should be better source of knowledge
 
Bob
@Dog Nah, just a more tired man.
Been trying to get this image up to Azure for hours
 
@Rahul2001 Except yours, right? :)
 
Bob
5:24 PM
 
@DavidPostill lol, yeah
 
@Rahul2001 It's almost illegible
 
Dog
@Bob That too
 
Bob
I've seen "virtual servers" but "special applications" is a new one
"trigger port"?!
 
So volt moves current?
 
Bob
5:26 PM
this is worse than cisco with nonstandard terminology
 
*voltage
 
Dog
Under the correct conditions voltage can create current.
You don't "move" current, since current by definition is already the movement of charge
 
@Bob Port Triggering
Port triggering is a configuration option on a NAT-enabled router that allows a host machine to dynamically and automatically forward a specific port back to itself. Port triggering opens an incoming port when the user's computer is using a specified outgoing port for specific traffic. == Description == Port triggering is a way to automate port forwarding in which outbound traffic on predetermined ports ('triggering ports') causes inbound traffic to specific incoming ports to be dynamically forwarded to the initiating host, while the outbound ports are in use. This allows computers behind a NAT...
 
Bob
@DavidPostill Pretty sure this is not port triggering by the conventional definition.
But it's hard to be sure *shrug*
 
voltage is the amount of work done to keep pace with or increase the amperage of the current per unit of charge?
 
5:30 PM
Looks like it to me ...
 
Bob
Maybe it is. In any case, it no work.
 
Dog
@varfirstName No
 
Bob
screw it, back to DMZ
 
@varfirstName gawd...
 
Dog
Voltage is not work done. Voltage is potential difference.
 
5:31 PM
@varfirstName headdesk
 
@varfirstName Just Google ”ncert class 10 science”
 
I'm reading this "pdf" you posted
 
Yeah you should
 
Dog
I didn't post any PDF
 
NO
I'VE BEEN READING IT THE ENTIRE TIME
 
5:32 PM
@Dog I did
 
SINCE YOU POSTED IT
 
@varfirstName please see who posted the message before replying
 
I did
 
sory for starting this :/
 
I didn't imply it was dog
 
5:34 PM
Well, I see no reason for ALL CAPS
We're trying to help you here
 
Dog
If it's taken him like an hour and he still doesn't understand the most basic of electrical concepts, I think he's beyond hope
 
Well you're telling me that voltage or electric potential difference isn't the work done to move a unit of charge
 
Dog
If this message gets ten stars I'll unblock Rahul
14
 
Ugh... That's right, dude
Clear your head, start from scratch
 
Dog
5:36 PM
@varfirstName Voltage is basically pressure
 
Anyway, I should be studying... Be back in a while
 
So voltage isn't the force
 
@Dog don't... It might confuse him further
 
Dog
You can have pressure in a balloon. If the balloon is tied, nothing is moving and no work is getting done.
 
it's what exerts the force
 
5:37 PM
No, the battery exerts the force
 
Dog
You can have pressure in water pipes. If the tap is closed, no work is being done. The pressure remains the same.
 
@varfirstName please go offline, read the PDF, and then come back with your doubts...
 
Dog
@varfirstName Voltage is the force. Voltage is defined as the unit of electromotive force
 
I would recommend physics.se, but I daresay they won't tolerate these kind of questions for long...
 
Dog
Electromotive force, also called emf (denoted E {\displaystyle {\mathcal {E}}} and measured in volts), is the voltage developed by any source of electrical energy such as a battery or dynamo. It is generally defined as the electrical potential for a source in a circuit. A device that supplies electrical energy is called a seat of electromotive force or emf. Emfs convert chemical, mechanical, and other forms of energy into electrical energy. The product of such a device is also known as emf. The word "force" in...
 
5:39 PM
No! Don't read that! You'll confuse yourself!
Seriously dude, just go to khan academy
 
Rahul
@Dog you're telling me it is the force
@Rahul2001 you're telling me it is not the force
 
Yes it is
@varfirstName I didn't say that
 
I said:
> so is voltage the amount of force that a capacitor supplies to overcome the difference in the charge of the source and destination?
you responded:
 
I said that the battery is exerting the force
 
> Work and Force are very different in physics
 
5:41 PM
That force it exerts is known as voltage
 
A CAPACITOR AND A BATTERY ARE THE SAME THING, CORRECT?
 
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
 
one is different than the other in a way
 
Dog
@varfirstName Correct
 
Dog
5:42 PM
Crikey, if a 15 year old kid for whom english is not a first language can get this...
 
so is voltage the amount of force that a capacitor supplies to move a unit of charge at the current that the destination pulls?
 
Bob
goddammit mobile does CGN
...I think
 
I... Give up
 
Dog
@Bob Pretty much all UK/EU mobiles do, dunno about AU
!!tell 32032876 doublefacepalm
 
Bob
5:44 PM
@Dog tbh I have no idea how to tell
oh wait I can try a tracert
 
Dog
@Bob whatismyip.com
 
OH SHIT
I FIGURED IT OUT
 
@varfirstName I don't know how to help you, please visit khan academy
 
Dog
Does your external IP match your internal IP? Simples
 
Bob
@Dog nah that won't tell me if it's CGN cause the modem itself does NAT
 
5:45 PM
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT
 
Dog
@Bob Can you not read the IP off the modem?
 
@varfirstName Good for you
 
Dog
It should show you the carrier-assigned "WAN" IP somewhere in the status pages if it has one
 
I need to study, I'll be back later
 
Voltage is the force that drives the current through a circuit at the desired amperage?
 
Bob
5:46 PM
@Dog don't think so
 
@varfirstName There is nothing left to be desired...
 
Dog
!!tell 32032982 triplefacepalm
 
Dog
I give up
 
Bob
oh well, definitely CGN
 
5:47 PM
HOW ABOUT YOU TELL ME SPECIFICALLY WHAT IT IS
I WONT ASK ANY QUESTIONS
 
Bob
the private block in 172 lol
 
YOU JUST EXPLAIN
 
Dog
@varfirstName Voltage is the potential difference between two points.
I've explained it ten times
@Bob Strictly speaking that doesn't necessarily mean CG-NAT though it seems quite likely
 
Bob
@Dog well... considering I can't seem to accept incoming connections...
 
onion!
@bwDraco really?
 
Dog
5:48 PM
(You'll often see 10.x.x.x internal IPs on traceroutes through a cable modem gateway that doesn't use CG-NAT because of the peculiar multi-homed nature of DOCSIS connections)
 
@Dog do we have a quadruple facepalm?
 
Bob
Also that's a ridiculously large number of hops.
@Dog Yea i get a 10.x on my ADSL2+ connection that I know has a dedicated static IP
 
@bwDraco wait, you're getting arrested?
 
Bob
that's cause of PPP iirc
 
Dog
@varfirstName No, he's a drama queen
 
5:49 PM
oh ok
 
Dog
@Bob That too
But yeah, a) lots and lots of RFC1918 hops, and b) well, it's mobile
 
@Dog could you define it in regards to amperage
 
Okay, folks. I'll explain what happened.
 
Dog
The only one mobile provider I know of that does not do CG-NAT has a specific, VPN'd static IP service. Over a CG-NAT RAN
30 mins ago, by Dog
1 volt will drive 1 amp of current through a resistance of 1 ohm
 
!! quadruplefacepalm
 
5:50 PM
@Rahul2001 That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
 
I think so
 
Bob
@Dog tbh I have no idea what most mobile providers here do
this is the first time I've tried to host a server on one
 
Dog
@Bob Probably CG-NAT
 
Bob
suppose I'll just have to find an upload-capable server and do it the other way
 
Dog
There's really no real reason to (and lots of reasons not to) issue public IPs to mobile terminals
Heck, even fixed ISPs are resorting to CG-NAT
And mobile providers need like, eight times as many IPs...
 
5:53 PM
My apologies. Nothing actually happened, and I'm not going to do anything that could get me arrested.
 
Dog
@Bob It's potentially possible your carrier has a special/alternate APN that can be used to get a non-NAT'd connection
That used to be available free, but then became a chargeable business product
 
@bwDraco So... What was that all about?
 
Bob
@Dog Yea, someone mentioned way back in 2013 that "preconnect" was NAT'd while "connect" was not. But I only have "yesinternet" and "connectme", neither of which worked (I tried)
And it's probably changed since '13 anyway
 
Kinda lost control of myself, almost did something illegal.
 
Uh... Okay
 
Dog
5:55 PM
5 mins ago, by Dog
@varfirstName No, he's a drama queen
 
Bob
OH I KNOW
 
Dog
@Bob: Why are you trying to host a server on your mobile anyway?
 
@Dog: I'm sorry for this.
 
@Dog you unblocked me!
 
Bob
upload to owncloud server via mobile => download from owncloud server => profit!
 
Dog
5:56 PM
@Bob I just use VPN for this shit
 
Bob
@Dog Wanted to transfer a 5.5 GB image over to a server.
No FTP, etc., on it.
 
I realize why I'm blocked and will bring an end to this.
 
Bob
Didn't really want to set that up either.
 
@bwDraco Do, don't say
 
Dog
@Bob Ah
I already have one
 
5:56 PM
@Bob: Tell @Dog I said sorry.
 
@Rahul2001 you're getting the hang of it
 
1 volt is the potential difference in charge between two points in a circuit when 1 coulomb has had 1 joule of kinetic energy imparted on it, and has moved from the first point to the second point??
 
@Rahul2001: Consider it done. The problem's beem addressed.
 
Is that right?
 
Dog
Hence I can dial my mobile (or laptop, or desktop, or home router) into my server's VPN network and get either a LAN connection into my "global" LAN or bridge it to one of my server provider's external IPs
 
5:57 PM
DID I GET IT RIGHT FOR ONCE?
 
Bob
@Dog Oh. Yea, I need to set up a VPN again sometime.
 
@bwDraco you've been saying so for literally months. You haven't changed. You are just hurting your trustability or whatever.
 
Bob
I had an OVPN server once upon a time but stopped maintaining it... three years ago?
 
@Dog is that correct?
 
Try more to change, and less to talk about that.
 
Dog
5:58 PM
46 mins ago, by Rahul2001
@varfirstName you are going into irrelevant complicated stuff
 
@varfirstName Dude... I... you... Just... Leave it
 
That's literally in Rahul's textbook that he posted
 
Well, how would I demonstrate that to you? I'm on mobile right now.
 
Dog
@Bob I stopped maintaining mine about the same time I did my old chmod, which was like, ...
Actually I should check
Still works though
 

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