The Pod Bay - 2015-11-04

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7:25 AM

@TildalWave But it's not a spam. GIS and RS are related to each other and I'm permitted to add a community promotion ad

@TildalWave Two of the moderators of this site allowd me to add this question there

@TildalWave As you see it's not a spam and we've discussed about it

In fact the moderators of GIS-SE asked me to propose a site in Area 51 meta.gis.stackexchange.com/users/19874/sepideh if you follow my questions and answers on meta.gis.stackexchange.com

But posting those advertisements on various beta sites was kind of a mistake. I thought as I was permitted to add that advertisement in signal processing-SE then I'm permitted to add that on other related beta sites too and there's no need to ask the moderators but I was wrong. This time I have asked if I can advertise the proposal on the chat part of beta sites and they've advised me to do it but be respectful

1

Q: Am I permitted to advertise this proposal on the chat section of other stack exchange sites that are still in the beta phase?

Proposal: Remote Sensing and Photogrammetry As you know GIS-SE and ES-SE are two sites that are very close to this proposal. A while ago when I wanted to advertise this proposal on Earth Sciences, I found that the sites that are still in beta phase don't have a community promotion ads thread so ...

technology discussion allowed-questions promotion advertising

So if you let me I'm gonna advertise the proposal here as a member and not as a spammer

And I'll be present to answer your questions whenever you ask

I think space exploration is related to remote sensing based on the reasons that I gave meta.space.stackexchange.com/questions/678/… but have been deleted

so a new site has been proposed that needs support

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/90327/…

Feel free to add your comments and criticize the proposal and give me new ideas about it

7:59 AM

It would be a good practice if the room had kind of an RSS feed not just for starred messages but for all of the messages then I could be present here whenever there was a new message. Any way I'll try to be vigilant

4 hours later…

12:17 PM

@sepideh Me and a community mod didn't tho, and yes when you're not a member of this community and are trying to suggest what members of it should do elsewhere than here, that IS spam

it goes directly against what we're trying to achieve here

it might not be spam if you were an active member of this community, but you're not, you registered to post that

@sepideh GIS is graduated, and proposing it on A51 is where those proposals belong, not on some beta

at the very least it is off-topic here as per space.stackexchange.com/help/whats-meta

at which point bickering if it's spam or not becomes immaterial

When I was a kid, I asked my parents why our houses didn't have toothpaste pipes in addition to water ones. I'm strangely pleased to see Amazon thinking the same way.

(but to me it's a bit like someone stepping to members of our congregation in our own church and suggest they might want to help build another one while they're still busy building this one)

(OK maybe bad analogy but it should do)

12:49 PM

@TildalWave OK, but the topic of the remote sensing proposal is different from the current beta site. I don't think it would drain audience from this site. It will just encourage the ones who are remote sensing enthusiasts to be active in the proposal. But any way if the major members of this site don't allow me advertise the proposal here, I'll probably not be successful then I won't try to advertise the proposal more on this site.

1:02 PM

We have remote-sensing tag here, and most of it would be on-topic as spacecraft operations, even if it's to produce Earth Science data. Aerial remote sensing is on-scope for mentioned Earth Science, technical aspects at Aviation, here, Physics, Robotics, Engineering,... data analysis again on multiple existing Stack Exchange sites,... I foresee great difficulties in maintaining sufficient activity on a new SE site about it. And tho I'm interested in it...

...I personally don't find the time to participate in already large number of SE sites. I doubt that's much different for anyone here.

In all, it seems to me more like a divide et impera attempt than finding a certain symbiosis with the rest of SE. But that's just my opinion, it's not the reason for nuking your proposal in our Space Exploration Meta

1:18 PM

@TildalWave And that was the exact reason why I proposed the site. Because I saw remote sensing related questions is splattered on various sites. For SAR related questions I had to post the question in Electrical Engineering and physics

For remote sensing software related questions I had to post them in GIS (They're not very good in the concepts and most remote sensing questions remain unanswered there)

For applications I had to refer to earth sciences

For technical aspects I had to refer to aviation or space exploration or engineering without knowing which is the best

For image processing related questions I had to refer to signal processing

and computer science

Regarding the applications of machine vision in photogrammetry

@sepideh programming, (astro/...)physics, maths, electronics and robotics,... are also covered on multiple SE sites, that's not an issue

For statistics related questions I had to refer to cross-validated

@sepideh then maybe it would be easier to work on strengthening that topic on a site that already includes it in its scope?

@TildalWave yes maybe

don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely not against what you're trying to do and yes, it seems existing SE sites that cover it lack in that topic both in experts as well as number of contributions (kinda related anyway), but I'm not sure you're taking the most optimal approach

1:26 PM

@TildalWave they are all covered but remote sensing is not covered. Each aspect of remote sensing just fit one of these site while the other aspect does not fit that site

you could use existing sites' momentum to start new expert communities within its broader community

that's probably also why you intuitively sought support in other communities, thinking that's where those people are

my point is just why move them elsewhere when you could just engage them more where they are

No I'm just trying to see if I'm wrong. I am just trying to gather remote sensing and photogrammetry experts in a place so we can have a focused place on remote sensing. The problem is remote sensing is an
Interdisciplinary field. Creating a dedicated site for it seems a long way without no help

My worry is that it might not have a single area of its scope that doesn't already fit some other SE site, i.e. that it lacks distinction and will compete for contents with bigger / graduated sites. And while SE is a great deal about community building, and I see your point about the need for remote sensing / photogrammetry community, I just don't see how it requires a separate one. BTW I've worked a great deal in GIS related data acquisition in my past, I have a deep and vested interest in it.

2:34 PM

In fact I'm not just searching and advertizing just within other communities. I have proposed the site two month ago and I've mostly tried to gather people outside of SE. People like my classmates and my professors

I also have created a twitter page and a facebook page to advertize the proposal

facebook

twitter

LinkedIn

but most of the people just like or follow my pages and the posts on them without following the proposal

I really need some help and some new ideas to advertise the proposal outside of SE

So I thought other related communities like this one may be a better place for this goal

so your dead set on this particular goal? because i have to agree with TildalWave, a separate SE doesn't seem called for. there are other ways to build a community, though.

Because there might be some remote sensing and photogrammetry experts in these communities who are familiar with SE and it's rules. Who have already found SE a valuable place to communicate

maybe starting a chat room in one of the related sites?

if expertise gets spread among too many sites, the traffic to all of the sites falls.

it becomes too fragmented for the majority of people to find the right place to ask and to get a good answer quickly

alright, the chat room suggestion is just a lame attempt, the only thing that occurred to me, but the fragmentation issue is importatnt

2:50 PM

@kimholder yes and that is one of the things that I'm concerned about and have discussed it in GIS and Area 51 before

people had different opinions in GIS

this may be an interface issue in many ways. SE sites don't integrate well with the larger set of sites within SE.

@kimholder I think one way to solve this issue is to share the question within different SE sites

For example suppose that someone asks a question with the tag remote sensing in GIS

and there are remote sensing tags in Earth Science and Space Exploration too

yes, i think i see where you're going...

so the question should be included in all of the above 3 sites

no no no no no :)

2:58 PM

why?

on graduated sites fine, on beta sites no way

what's the difference?

@sepideh because we struggle towards graduation as it is, and the last thing we need is more places to struggle with

yes then beta sites after graduation

it takes a lot of effort in promoting this site in various communities outside of SE

using that work for the benefit of another site is not what I signed up for

and I probably am among the most active in site promotion here

3:01 PM

but the idea will help you in your struggle toward graduation too

I don't see how

there will be more questions and answers

so some of our membership effort would go on another SE site

how does that help Space Exploration?

...and some will come from other sites.

it's just like a big site with different sections

3:02 PM

that already is

no, I'm against making a new SE site for each tag we have

@TildalWave a question that is asked in GIS will be included in sx too

what's next? Orbital mechanics Stack Exchange?

so more question

i'm not sure it would work, but there is a genuine problem with there not being enough cross-talk, if you will, between sites.

the visits to the site will be more

because when someone googles a certain key word

3:05 PM

@kimholder sure, but that's not for us to solve, we have this site on a lease by the SE platform and to work on till it gets SE blessing to graduate

the google will address all the 3 sites so the probability that person visits your site is higher

I'll personally support any other site proposals that draw from a subscope of ours once we graduate, but for the time being, our graduation is all I'm concerned with

let's just say we haven't reached a critical mass yet

@sepideh having it come up high when key words are googled would be hard to achieve

once we go full nuclear, fine, have some of the residue

@TildalWave OK, I understand your concern

But just one more question

Are you aware if the idea I spoke about above has been proposed earlier?

You see that is a fairly good way for graduated sites and it might get some support there

3:09 PM

@sepideh yes I believe it has, I thought you proposed it?

or maybe your proposal went by a different name at first and I'm thinking of that one

No, can you add the link?

if it was deleted on A51 then I can't link to it

No I'm speaking about the idea of adding a question with the same tag in multiple sites

it should be proposed as a discussion on meta.stackexchange.com or in the discussion zone of area 51

@sepideh that belongs on A51 where it already is, no other SE site is obliged to promote new A51 proposals, and most will find that as an unwanted distraction unless you're at least already an active member there

I've seen other sites advertised in chats, but by active members of that particular community

if they were just plugs by unknown people, they'd get flagged as spam and nuked

at least that's what I saw, but it might have gone unnoticed on some less active chats

I'm mostly inhere and in DMZ, mods of both would likely nuke it

but active members might discuss new proposals, like we did in DMZ with Reverse Engineering, Beer :), and I think there was a proposal for physical security, and so on

and here we discussed and somewhat promoted Amateur Radio

and Astronomy

DMZ?

3:17 PM

@sepideh Information Security main chat room

well thanks for allocating me the time

anyway, I think all of your endeavors would go down a lot better if you were first an active member of those communities where you advertise a new proposal

I cannot be active or semi-active in all of the sites that are somehow related to remote sensing

so welcome to Space Exploration :P :D

@TildalWave :)

4:19 PM

NASA Image of the Day: Tropical Cyclone Chapala Over the Gulf of Aden

posted on November 04, 2015

Tropical Cyclone Chapala made landfall on mainland Yemen early on November 3, 2015, dumping torrential rains across the arid landscape.

4:45 PM

@TildalWave In fact my proposal that I was speaking about was meta.stackexchange.com/questions/268885/…

Maybe because of poor English, I couldn't tell my purpose clearly

Oh I see. Dunno, I didn't put much thought into it but I'd expect that there isn't any good way to automate this. Some questions might fit multiple sites where that tag is on topic, some wouldn't. Take for example this one space.stackexchange.com/questions/12543/…

it's a pretty poor question, but that's the point, it's A) also about orbital mechanics and nonterrestrial planetary science which I'd expect to be off-topic on GIS, and B) it might have issues that you then just duplicate across multiple sites if it was posted elsewhere too

but it could have been tagged with remote-sensing and mapping, both also tags on GIS

@TildalWave yes that is a problem any way I've added it as a discussion there to speak about advantages and disadvantages

sure

I won't have the time now for a proper answer but I'm sure someone will take it and say more or less the same thing, plus probably things I didn't think about

see? I can't even type any more LOL

@sepideh also, though i do think contemplating sharing tags across sites could be a step towards a solution, having questions appear on multiple sites brings with it its own problems, because SE has been specifically designed to avoid that .

gotta go.. .t/c

4:52 PM

space.stackexchange.com/q/12554/10234 Wasn't Russia planning another Venera lander to be sent in the future?

Venera-D

Observations and explorations of Venus

Observations of the planet Venus include those in antiquity, telescopic observations, and from visiting spacecraft. Spacecraft have performed various flybys, orbits, and landings on Venus, including balloon probes that floated in the atmosphere of Venus. Study of the planet is aided by its relatively close proximity to the Earth, compared to other planets, but the surface of Venus is obscured by an atmosphere opaque to visible light. == Historical observations and impactEdit == === MesopotamiaEdit === As one of the brightest objects in the sky, Venus has been known since prehistoric times and as...

@sepideh i just wanted to add that, because i didn't think about it until later. integrating different sections of SE is an issue i've thought about a few times, but it is a real challenge. i'll read your meta post.

@duzzy we need a few more russians...

@kimholder And Nuclear Wessels.

:)))))

:P

5:07 PM

@geoffc from Al Ameeda? :D

The Nuclear Wessels?

@TildalWave That is the one! Good old Checkov.

@duzzy does nobody read my comments? :P VEXAG Reports - 2014 Roadmap for Venus Exploration - 2.5. International Opportunities

BTW all these exploration analysis groups include overview of what others are up to, they don't look at NASA only

Hey there Space.SE family. Just thought I'd let you know that I'm participating in the ARSSDC this year and this website has been absolutely CRUCIAL to my research. 75% of my data is from here, I just want to thank you guys!

3

arssdc.org

There's this one question I've started a (meagre) bounty on, because I'm actively looking for alternative cooling methods in the 2070-2100 AD timeframe.

9

Q: Are there any promising next-generation space station cooling technologies?

The ISS had problems related to ammonia more than once. These problems happened in different calender years, and it seems like almost every "near miss" that makes the news about the ISS is connected to the ammonia loop. This system exists to transfer heat from the station to the radiators, which...

space-station thermal radiators

@VedantChandra cool, if you'd like to do some networking and perhaps gain support from SE (maybe even pay for some of your expenses), check here meta.space.stackexchange.com/questions/667/…

@TildalWave I didn't initially see anything about Venera. :P

5:18 PM

@duzzy that's a critical angle for you ... total internal reflection :P :)))

@TildalWave @VedantChandra that can work, they helped me out.

@VedantChandra also of interest

44

Q: How can I get Stack Exchange to send me to a conference?

I read Supporting Community Conferences, which states, Depending on the circumstances and location, we can also sponsor community leaders to attend an event on behalf of their site. We will subsidize your costs to attend, within reason, and provide you with a bunch of swag to use as an ice-br...

discussion faq site-promotion

@TildalWave Why not write an answer? :P

no time, rep capped early today, laziness?

lol I forget that the points are a driver.

5:27 PM

i just updated an answer based on Tildal's comment. take that duzzy :D

@duzzy well when even SE tells me to go and also have a life :)))

well, on an answer where he also fed me everything i needed to write an answer...

@kimholder lol I'm so confused.

@TildalWave haha

I think she means that KIC 8462852 one

but what is life without SE?

5:29 PM

@TildalWave yeah. didn't mention that

@VedantChandra the question places a tighter limit on what can be considered. if you are thinking in terms of 2070 to 2100, how about plain old thermal mass?

because it also makes great radiation shielding and is totally passive, can't fail. you just need a system for launching a lot of mass from the moon, or to haul in a good-sized NEO

@VedantChandra you might wanna have a look at this Fall's NIAC symposium livestream.com/viewnow/NIAC2015

@TildalWave @kimholder @duzzy Thank you for being helpful as always, I'll take a look. I'll probably be posting questions over the next few days as our team runs head first into various walls and problems!

So what exactly are you doing?

You're designing a satellite?

I'm not being helpful. :P

I'm confused.

have you seen al globus's analysis of smaller diameter space stations?

A space outpost, that will orbit the Sun somewhere in the middle of the asteroid belt. And whatever small inputs you give are always helpful @duzzy :) 16,500 residents in a 4km radius Stanford Torus, with a self sustained society living inside. I could go into way more detail, but we basically have our urban planning figured out as well. The torus is attached to a main drive segment that has a refinery and fuel processing facilities.

5:39 PM

That sounds pretty huge.

It's a big fat mining rig with a city inside.

Ahhhhh

ah, then forget about the specific design i had in mind, it's for LEO

but he has a collection of resources that maybe could be helpful to you, if you haven't seen them

I'm really curious to see how things change when they start mining asteroids.

settlement.arc.nasa.gov

5:45 PM

16,500 seems like a lot of people.

@kimholder Thank you for the link, I'll take a look.

Yeah @duzzy it's definitely a lot. Only a portion are actually mining, the rest are employed as farmers and other jobs inside the city itself. The food situation is still being figured out, but it'll probably be hydroponics with a combination of some protein source.

beans and rice!

Also @TildalWave I absolutely love that T-Shirt design, and I try to represent Space.SE wherever I go. I'd love a high resolution layout of it.

bugs. i'm all for grasshoppers, they'll eat anything. and algae, also a sound option.

@duzzy Naaaah we need our taters and chicken!

5:49 PM

grasshoppers are the most clumsy of all insects.

mighty tasty...

@kimholder The walls will be covered in algae actually! Air purification and aesthetics in one.

Potatoes are amazing. I've been going a bit crazy on sweet potatoes the past few months.

@duzzy Not Mark Watney crazy, I hope ;)

I haven't seen it yet. >_<

5:52 PM

neither have i

It's not really a fantastic movie like Interstellar was, but it's definitely brain candy for nerds like us. I'd recommend you watch it whenever you get the chance.

@VedantChandra OK I'll forward it to your email then... there's 4 different versions, you'll select the one for the type of print you'll want to do

Lots of people are recommending it. I want to see it.

The local astronomical society got a bunch of free tickets to its premiere, but I didn't respond quickly enough to get one of them.

PearsonArtPhoto

It's a good movie.

And good book.

I like the Martian better than Interstellar.

Interstellar is more of the artsy movie than the Martian, but the Martian I think tells a good story, much more realistic.

yup out of the two The Martian is a lot better

it still has that yipikaye factor but that's Hollywood for you

PearsonArtPhoto

6:00 PM

Gravity was an interesting movie, horrible science. Interstellar was an artsy movie, a good flick, still bad science. Martian is both interesting and good science, it feels much more real, although it isn't as artsy (Which I would argue is a good thing)

Gravity cracked me up. That was good fun.

At least it tries to be real and still manages a good story with it. There are of course problems with it, but I thought I'll just enjoy the ride and not dissect it too much unless it becomes really annoying. It didn't. I was entertained. Mission accomplished :)

I mean The Martian. Gravity ... no comment LOL

lol

PearsonArtPhoto

I managed to suspend disbelief with Gravity a lot. I was proud that I could watch that movie without wanting to throw something through my TV...

Not since the Core have I watched a movie with so much bad science in it...

I guess you didn't watch 2012 then :D

PearsonArtPhoto

6:18 PM

I forgot about that one...

There was one more too, similar to 2012...

The Day after Tomorrow...

Interestingly enough, between the Day after Tomorrow and 2012, there wasn't too many horrible science in fiction movies...

spaceflightnow.com/2015/11/04/…

Lesson: Never be on the first launch of an experimental rocket family.

oww and I was looking for live webcast info for it

that's an odd failure for about 50 seconds into flight, looks like a burn through

hmmm yeah...

> Air Force officials admitted they accepted “elevated risk” on the ORS-4 mission over concerns that hot gas inside the LEO-46 first stage motor could burn through insulation lining the composite casing.

6:35 PM

@PearsonArtPhoto Seems like it was spinning really fast even early on

PearsonArtPhoto

It seems like something out of KSP...

Watching that has made me a little dizzy :P

1 hour later…

7:48 PM

(above the spiderman area rug?)

PearsonArtPhoto

I hope that isn't your personal check...

And I shall delete this last one as well.

PearsonArtPhoto

Change the text first, then delete

gee, i thought i could do that...

Oops.

PearsonArtPhoto

7:52 PM

You can, but it's just not a very good idea...

I think that is an email question next time. :)

right - i forgot i even had that :P

also i thought i could delete it myself, but then i didn't see the option

PearsonArtPhoto

You can, I just did it for you.

it looks like the time runs out on that though

PearsonArtPhoto

Could be...

7:56 PM

i'd forgotten about that too

PearsonArtPhoto

I forget what it's like to not have mod powers in a chatroom...

Forgot there was an option to purge history... For now it should be clear, so...

Except the image is on the image sharing site, no idea how to purge that...

oh wait, yeah, let me go do that...

it isn't public though

PearsonArtPhoto

Yeah, mods can do cool stuff:-)

hm, i can't find it...

well, maybe i shouldn't say that either...

PearsonArtPhoto

If it's not real, then you might be okay.

It's still important to edit your text before you delete it, if it's sensitive. The let a mod know to purge the history if you can't.

8:03 PM

i am awful with this sort of thing, i admit. i pay no attention to it since virtually no funds are ever sent through me directly.

I don't think funds are sent through many people... maybe except for babies who swallow coins.

user image

:P

Space Exploration Meta

9:04 PM

1

Q: How many Space Exportation Members are active in the space industry?

This question really has very little relevance, and truly is only being asked from my own curiosity but; How many Space Exportation stack exchange members are active in the space industry? To clarify; by active in the industry I mean your typical employment is related to the space industry dir...

discussion users

9:15 PM

@TildalWave aren't two mods active in the industry? @PearsonArtPhoto works with satellite stuff?

9:29 PM

@kimholder I posted an answer. I didn't name anyone but I think it's pretty clear we all have experience in space industry.

I mean the mod team

And many of our members too actually. We had a discussion about that once in the DMZ when someone asked who from the field would ever be on SE and I started naming big names so fast I probably made the one asking about it a bit uncomfortable lOL

This is a really cool place for that.

We have quite some from NASA and JPL. Some from Glenn and Stennis. Quite many from the Space Coast active in the industry in one way or another. We have a couple from ESA that I wish were more often here, I know of at least one from CNES, probably a couple from DLR, BIS, CSA,... and that doesn't even include yet any planetary scientists, commercial sector, and so on

@TildalWave I don't!

(Or per Life of Brian "You are all individuals" We are all individuals. I'm not!

hehehe

I agree with Kim, though. We need more Russians.

9:47 PM

Я говорю немного по-русски, это не считается? :Ь

English-speaking Russians* :P

I can speak a bit of English too

That's impressive, though. It would be pretty cool to speak Russian.

Boney M - Rasputin

you didn't rewind it!!

9:50 PM

well, i thought some might not want to see the whole thing

but they might wanna see the last two seconds? :))

BTW you know of this right...

ah, it's cut off. it just says 'oh, those'

@brendan_kerin http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/3200/what-is-the-cause-of-discoloration-along-the-edges-of-the-quest-joint-airlock-th

Tweeted by Cmdr_Hadfield on April 30, 2015 at 12:15 PM in reply to brendan_kerin

2

Chris Hadfield answering a question by linking to Space Exploration

That's pretty awesome

it sure is. was that already starred at some earlier time?

i think i've seen it before

ah, why quibble

9:53 PM

I don't know if it was starred here but it was starred by commander Hadfield on Twitter :P

I did a few other promo stunts before, I think it's about time for another

next one Neil DeGrasse Tyson :P

he's just askin' for it :D

actually we have many really big names here, most are just incognito or younguns don't recognize them

they rarely post much tho, lack of time and such

PearsonArtPhoto

10:21 PM

@kimholder I used to work for a small satellite company.

ah, i thought you'd mentioned it.

PearsonArtPhoto

I currently work for a nameless defense contractor, not working with space stuff directly.

A long time ago, I worked with HiRISE/MRO.

yeah, that i knew too.

PearsonArtPhoto

And before that, with student Cubesats.

Space Exploration has always been really interesting for me, but I'm afraid the industry just isn't very family friendly...

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