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9:01 PM
@bolbteppa : light doesn't have mass because when we say mass without qualification we mean rest mass. Instead light has a non-zero inertial mass. Like Einstein said, it conveys inertia between the emitting and absorbing bodies. You might think you can't accelerate light but you can. In the vector sense. That's what happens in Compton scattering.
 
But if light doesn't have mass how do electrons have mass!?!?
 
@0celo7 : here you go: λ = 4π / n c^1½
 
>mixed fractions
Sigh, where does that come from
 
@JohnDuffield BTW, this is not the famous G. 't Hooft.
 
@Danu you sure?
I quickly tried to check that haha
 
9:03 PM
I am
Look at his other publications
 
@0celo7 : because a radiating body loses mass. Because mass is a measure of energy-content. It's just the flip side of momentum.
 
Okay so now light has a different type of mass and it can accelerate?
I am so lost
 
@Danu : yes, I've said that umpteen times. Sorry I didn't mention it this time. I'm having to type fast here.
 
I think this surpasseth all human understanding.
 
9:06 PM
@bolbteppa : yes, light has inertial mass because inertial mass is a measure of energy, and you can accelerate it in the vector sense. This is basic stuff. You should know this already.
 
wow he has 21 uncited papers
Basic stuff?? This is research level physics!
Graduate level, at least!
 
@JohnDuffield Accelerate + light = nope.
 
@0celo7 : no it's simple. It's really simple. It's a 110-year old paper, you know about pair production and the wave nature of matter and things like electron diffraction.
 
Sigh. It was so serene and peaceful in here the last days.
 
@ACuriousMind Yeah, it really was.
 
9:08 PM
@ACuriousMind Remember when I was banned
 
Well mb stop indulging Duffield then
 
(Aside from 0celo7's profanity, that is :P)
 
Now that was peaceful
 
Can you just stop trying to convince people of your theories, @JohnDuffield? I think nobody is really enjoying it (not even you?).
 
@ACuriousMind f u , wanna fite
 
9:09 PM
@Danu : Noooo
You fool
 
K town, 22-24 December.
 
Now he will tell us how this is not his theories
But Einstein
And the evidence
 
yeah... I know
 
Have you learned nothing
 
9:09 PM
$\mathcal{E}\wedge\mathfrak{E}$
 
@Danu : yes. In Compton scattering the electron is accelerated, and the photon is decelerated, in the vector sense. For every action there is a reaction.
 
the photon is...decelerated??
 
2 mins ago, by Danu
Can you just stop trying to convince people of your theories, @JohnDuffield? I think nobody is really enjoying it (not even you?).
 
@JohnDuffield Publish a paper, you just proved Einstein wrong!
 
@Slereah Not doing that to begin with. How's the Pauli-Fierz stuff coming?
 
9:11 PM
Holy crap I think we have a Nobel on our hands here
 
Eh I dunno
 
@0celo7 Just drop it
 
I mean if I do it naively, there's two infinite sums
 
@Slereah can you please give us the Feynman thing
 
When have infinite sums ever deterred a physicist?
And just two of them! Now, if there were infinitely many...
 
9:12 PM
@Danu : I'm not making this stuff up. And everybody is enjoying it. It's a physics conversation, what's not to like?
 
Well it's a product of two of them :p
 
...we would probably still renormalize or something :P
 
what's the infinite sum of infinite sums
 
@JohnDuffield this van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1424 calls the $m$ in $E = mc^2$ as inertial mass though?
 
@0celo7 Divergent ;)
 
9:13 PM
does an infinite sum of divergent sums converge?
 
@JohnDuffield Can anyone who is participating in the discussions with John (still) say that they enjoy it?
 
@0celo7 : no, I'm telling you about Einstein, and you're dismissing the guy!
 
@JohnDuffield yeah
what was his IQ? 160? I'm much smarter than him
much smarter
So he's wrong. There you go.
 
coughquadraticequationscough
 
@Slereah c'mon please give me the Feynman paper on Pauli-Fierz
@ACuriousMind You have a cold?
 
9:14 PM
It's not a paper :p
 
@0celo7 Yes
It is cold here
 
@ACuriousMind That's a shame. Hope you don't choke on your hair.
 
Winter is coming
 
Also here you go :
 
is there a "legal" copy
in English
 
9:16 PM
@Slereah It seems to be written in some sort of alien language
 
Probably
Use libgen I dunno
You're a physicist
You know where to look
 
@ACuriousMind read that as "abelian language"
@Slereah I'M NOT A PHYSICIST
 
@JohnDuffield "1. inertial mass

The “m” thing in Newtonian mechanic; thought to be a conserved scalar quantity. For low speeds approximately equals to the rest mass, but generally an obsolete concept since relativistic dynamics. Depending on context, is superseded in relativity either with the rest mass or (along momentum vectors) with 4-momenta. One can’t consistently define inertial mass of a photon, for example."
http://physics.stackexchange.com/a/143640/25851
 
I don't think Abelian languages are a good idea. All letters commuting with each other doesn't sound like a good idea.
 
lmao
 
9:17 PM
@JohnDuffield I think you are just confusing everything
 
@Danu ayy
 
ppsreha 'mI grnwo, tghhou
2
 
ACM IS HAVING A STROKE
 
user54412
and the h-bar just discovered a great way to make cthulu-speak
 
call the german ambo
what's it called?
 
user54412
9:18 PM
better notify worldbuilding.SE too
 
@0celo7 xarel, 'Im neif
 
@ACuriousMind pls don't die
 
Hm
Even if I express the determinant as a function of the inverse metric
There's still the square root
 
@bolbteppa : that article doesn't sound quite right, m is rest mass. In pair production and annihilation there's a flip-flop between the p and m terms in the E² expression.
 
Gonna be pretty shit to deal with
 
9:20 PM
@JohnDuffield so you are using the Newtonian mechanical concept of mass to describe a quantum field theoretical photon which uses special relativity, fantastic...
 
@ACuriousMind are you kill
@ACuriousMind what does "perhaps I'm grown, though" mean
 
@0celo7 lol
3 out of 4.
 
@bolbteppa : I haven't invented terms like inertial mass. All this stuff I'm talking about E=mc² basics. You should understand it already. If you're finding it confusing ask a question about it and I will answer more fully.
 
@JohnDuffield I'm saying you're using an obsolete irrelevant term and you're not aware of it
and it's leading to confusion
 
@ChrisWhite HIS name is Cthulhu, heretic!
 
9:22 PM
hello
 
ah, that's a tail
 
@bolbteppa : disregard that answer, it's incorrect. The photon has a non-zero active gravitational mass and a non-zero inertial mass because its energy is non zero.
 
I thought it was...something else
 
Jul 2 at 19:48, by ACuriousMind
I see we have reached point "This chat makes no sense!" again.
 
@ACuriousMind Cthulhu's name cannot be properly rendered by human speech, you dolt
That was part of the thing
 
9:23 PM
I praise HIM every evening
 
user54412
@ACuriousMind HE? As in structure of spacetime HE? That explains it.
 
Lovecraft gave Cthulhu's name several different pronounciations
Because his name was supposed to be the rendering of some terrible eldritch underwater blubbering
 
HE is about non-euclidean geometry...
 
@ChrisWhite Hm...we need more ways of reverently writing a pronoun than capitalization, this is getting confusing
 
And R'lyeh is noneuclidean
 
9:25 PM
You know I don't know why Cthulhu became the poster child of the Mythos
His story was pretty boring
Just a giant squid monster in the ocean
 
oh my god Hawking is Cthulhu
 
Nyarlathothep or Azathoth would have been better
 
what drugs are you on, again?
 
@JohnDuffield but you can't even define gravitational mass in general relativity physicsforums.com/threads/… let alone of light, so you are using Newtonian mechanics concepts which do not apply and do not make sense
 
show some respect to the elder gods @0celo7
 
9:26 PM
Can one put drops of LSD in cocaine and smoke it with some weed and meth? Does that work?
@Slereah nevar
 
Mixing drugs tend to be a bad idea
 
Is that what did you in?
 
user54412
@ACuriousMind I recall my translation of Kant mentioning that in the original German there were something like a dozen different sizes/boldness levels used to indicate different amounts of emphasis.
 
I don't even know why you would mix meth and weed
Do you want to be energized or relaxed
Pick one
 
@Slereah enerlaxed!
 
9:27 PM
relaxergized!
 
Or perhaps relagized.
 
@bolbteppa : E=mc² and the wave nature of matter is not alternative science.
 
Hm, yours is better :D
 
Azathoth is a fun god because he is an ALLEGORY
 
I want something that makes me good at math
 
9:28 PM
@ChrisWhite Never heard of that
 
An allegory of MATERIALISM
The universe created by the blind and mindless god
PLAYING HIS ACCURSED FLUTE
 
Can I smoke Adderall?
 
Probably
 
What happens if you marinate your weed in Adderall water
And then smoke it
 
gg
 
9:29 PM
Does it make you smarter?
 
Something tells me I'm not the one in danger of dying here :P
 
Who is?
@Slereah?
 
@Slereah Is that a euphemism?
I know you
 
Step 1: Dissolve adderall in water
 
@bolbteppa : inertial mass is neither obsolete nor irrelevant, and nor is E=mc². Go and look it up instead of dismissing something you don't know about.
 
9:30 PM
Step 2: Soak dank weed in adderall water
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit
 
PROFIT
Damnit, how could I miss that C-C-C-C-C-COMBOBREAKER
 
@ACuriousMind No that's just part of the mythos
 
So close!
 
"Outside the ordered universe is that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes."
Good old Azathoth
The Nuclear Chaos
 
where can I read more about this
String theory?
seems to be the same kind of material
 
9:32 PM
"The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath"
 
do you have this on your shelf or something?
 
@0celo7 Flutes are not string instruments.
 
also, what is the Lagrangian of Cthulhu
 
@ACuriousMind : But vile drums are surfaces
aka branes
 
@ACuriousMind that's what they want you to think
 
9:34 PM
I wonder what the equation would look like for a plot of cthulu?
 
@Slereah Ooooh, I like that. "Worldsheet" is out, "vile drums" is the new term
 
By the way
 
are worldsheets branes?
 
There's a Lovecraft book on astronomy
It's not particularly heavy stuff but it is interesting
 
D-rums
instead of D-branes
 
9:35 PM
@bolbteppa : I'm afraid to say that some of the people on PF exaggerate their expertise. In general relativity inertial mass and gravitational mass are related by the equivalence principle. Have a look at the Einstein digital papers.
 
@0celo7 No, but they're surfaces
 
if I ignore bolb and JD, the convo ends, right?
Indeed!
what's a good first lovecraft book
 
Hm
 
i.e. one that doesn't assume I know any of the lore
and are they scary?
 
9:36 PM
Do it!
 
My favorite Lovecraft book is "The colour out of space"
quite spooky
 
do you need drugs to appreciate his writings?
 
No, but don't mind the very racist remarks
 
@dmckee : time for that night stick!
 
If you don't like racism avoid "Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family"
 
9:38 PM
@JohnDuffield unbelievable
 
what kinds of remarks?
 
Well "Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family" is basically all racist
 
in what way!
 
The plot is basically about Arthur's family line polluted by darkies
Also whenever there's a black people in his stories, the description are quite colorful
The black boxer in "Herbert West" is basically a gorilla
 
One stereotypical character does not make something racist.
 
9:40 PM
Well there is more than one
 
Are they all gorillas?
 
Lovecraft was pretty racist, even for the era
Well they are all kinds of apes
But none of the descriptions are particularly flattering
Lovecraft was kind of a recluse weirdo really
then again it's not too surprising
You don't expect a guy naming a horror genre about madness to be all that well adjusted
 
mod alert!?
 
wow, that'a a bit...strong
 
9:43 PM
fmedir asirfv woddi gnalies
 
HE'S DYING
 
fmedir asirfv woodi gnalies
 
I can't figure out what that means...
sounds like old english
 
Let me just remind you all to be nice.
 
@ACuriousMind Only one of those words makes sense.
The last is leasing, linages or sealing
is @Slereah cooling off?
 
9:48 PM
Yep
30 min
 
how do you know
 
@0celo7 That's what you think
 
Check his profile
 
@ACuriousMind what does it mean o.o
@skullpetrol ah, that profile
@Slereah stay strong!
although tbh I dunno what you expected
you fell victim to his machinations
 
Machismo
 
9:50 PM
@0celo7 raises eyebrow
 
@ArtOfCode what
 
I'm an American, not a "lad"
 
@0celo7 Careful. When the second eyebrow is raised, the ban hammer falls.
3
 
9:51 PM
@ArtOfCode I haven't violated any rules.
 
@0celo7 I know you haven't, yet. I'm merely warning you not to stray too much further in that direction, or you will have done.
 
Take a short break pal
 
@skullpetrol no
 
Why not?
 
@ACuriousMind seriously, tell me what that means
the internet can't decipher it
is it a one time pad?
are you sending a secret message to someone in chat?
 
9:54 PM
I guess my secrets are immune your feeble Google-fu ;)
 
Anyone for physics?
 
firmed
 
@0celo7 :)
 
@ACuriousMind :(
 
9:56 PM
: |
 
can anyone figure this out?
or is this the great mystery of our time
 
user54412
arxiv to me: "We failed utterly to process the TeX file"
 
I think I have the first and last words
@ChrisWhite well format better
stop being a TeX neophyte
 
user54412
pretty sure this is arxiv's fault, and hyperref's
 
@ACuriousMind pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
 
9:59 PM
@ChrisWhite But there's lot of papers on there with hyperrefs
...or are all those hyperlinked documents not produced with hyperref?
 
is "diwdo" a word?
"dowdi"
nothing makes sense!
@ACuriousMind hint please
Can I place a bounty on a chat comment?
"firmed favsir diwdo sealing" is my best guess
 
...and how is that better than what it started out as? :P
 
user54412
@ACuriousMind Because arxiv automatically includes the hyperref/hypertex package in your code, even if you don't. Which opens the door for all sorts of problems, since hyperref is notoriously one of the most misbehaving packages. Also, this makes all those links use hyperref's default "outline in neon green" mode -- certainly most authors don't do that on purpose.
 
@ACuriousMind D: pls
 
@ChrisWhite Ah! I wondered why noone ever changed the way the hyperlinks appeared, good to know
 
user54412
10:07 PM
You have to include hyperref yourself and set the appropriate keywords.
 
10:23 PM
@ACuriousMind can you please tell me if that sentence has a meaning
can be it be unscrambled at all?
is it in Abelian English?
@ACuriousMind please I have homework to do and this is distracting me :o
 
@0celo7 No
 
@ACuriousMind German? Latin?
 
I AM BACK
 
\o
hey at least you didn't get two days
 
Why would I
 
10:29 PM
I did.
@ACuriousMind if you give me the translation I will never bug you about any math/physics thing ever again
you can block me and completely ignore me
 
@0celo7 I can also do that without giving you anything :P
2
 
what did I do to deserve this
 
@JohnDuffield you are going off of authority, look at the arguments about the tensor not reducing to a scalar in the link I gave you
@JohnDuffield "In GR there isn't a such thing as gravitational mass in general. The source of gravity in GR is the stress-energy tensor, which is a rank 2 symmetric tensor (i.e. it has 10 independent compnents). You cannot distill that down into a single scalar number in general. The reason this is important and makes answering the rest of your question difficult is that light, in particular, has a stress-energy tensor of a form where there does not exist any reference frame where all of the terms but one vanish. So there is no such thing as the gravitational mass of a plane wave of light."
 
@0celo7 Life is cruel and unfair and so am I :)
 
seriously dude
why?
why aren't all Springer books available for MyCopy
 
10:35 PM
@JohnDuffield ". inertial mass

The “m” thing in Newtonian mechanic; thought to be a conserved scalar quantity. For low speeds approximately equals to the rest mass, but generally an obsolete concept since relativistic dynamics. Depending on context, is superseded in relativity either with the rest mass or (along momentum vectors) with 4-momenta. One can’t consistently define inertial mass of a photon, for example." http://physics.stackexchange.com/a/143640/25851 now you can attack their character all you want, but it doesn't change the argument
 
@bolbteppa : I'm afraid you're going off of authority, and it's the false authority of somebody who is misinforming and not providing references like I do. The source of gravity in GR is not the stress-energy tensor, that's just a mathematical matrix that describes "the density and flux of energy and momentum in spacetime". The source of gravity is energy-momentum, and it's a real thing, not a mathematical abstraction. Matter is made of it.
 
@ACuriousMind What do I have to do to get you to tell me what that means
I'll do anything
 
10:51 PM
@bolbteppa : have a look at the other answers. See where dbrane said Einstein's Equivalence Principle requires that inertial mass and gravitational mass are equal. Also see Michael Luciuk's answer. Then do your own research and look at books like
"A photon of energy hv has inertial mass equal to hv/c²..."
 
@0celo7 You have nothing to offer me. Some things must stay secret.
 
@ACuriousMind wtf
The first part is insulting, the second part is just mean!
 
OK I gotta go. Night all.
 
what did I do to deserve this sadface
I should make a meta post on this
I will give 500 rep to anyone who can decipher it
 
@0celo7 I'll give you this: it's not an anagram.
 
10:58 PM
how do you know
one time pad?
pig latin?
 
@0celo7 not pig latin.
 
@ArtOfCode I know
 
I'm checking Caesar shift now, though encryption is probably on the wrong track completely.
 

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