English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

2:04 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Email in answer: Any other way of saying "I share your opinion"? by khalil tunicino on english.stackexchange.com

Cerberus

@Robusto On the topic of "heh", perhaps humour is always related to some sense of surprise?

Robusto

2:33 AM

@Cerberus Sure. But "heh" is mild surprise.

SmokeDetector

6:51 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body: What is "the Pounds 100m revamp"? by Dmitry Sopov on english.stackexchange.com

9:41 AM

11:03 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: word to make someone feel bad or insulted by obeng amos on english.stackexchange.com

tchrist

-1

A: Is 'this' a noun in the following sentence?

According to the following article, 'this' is a noun marker. Noun markers are also called determiners and quantifiers. They are words like a, an, the, this, that, these, those ... The Parts of Speech, a review ... In the sentence you quote, it is not obvious which noun is being marked....

Nonsense.

Apparently it doesn’t matter to him that it be a right answer, just a quick one.

crl

List of lists of lists

This article is a list of articles that are themselves lists of articles that are also lists on Wikipedia; i.e., each of the articles linked here is an index to multiple lists on a topic. == General reference == List of lists of academic journals Lists of important publications in science == Culture and the arts == === Literature === Lists of books Lists of 100 best books Lists of The New York Times Fiction Best Sellers Lists of The New York Times Non-Fiction Best Sellers Publishers Weekly lists of bestselling novels in the United States Lists of bookstores Lists of LGBT figures in f...

tchrist

It forgot to list itself.

crl

11:19 AM

it's in List of lists of lists of lists

crl

12:33 PM

Is there a difference in pronunciation between B'day and bidet?

tchrist

Not much.

crl

Oh ok :)

Also do American hotel rooms really have all a Bible?

tchrist

Probably. At least.

todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/07/…

> Based on the success of the Gideons’ Bible project -- the group’s own statistics claim 25% of the people who check into a hotel room will read the Bible placed there -- other religious groups have begun distributing their own free literature to hotels. The Marriott hotel chain, founded by a Mormon, places the The Book of Mormon in many of its rooms, and many hotels also offer Buddhist, Hindu, Christian Scientist or Scientologist books along with the standard Gideon Bible.

In Utah you get their book, too.

terdon

> Supposedly, it is estimated that about 25% of people who stay in hotel rooms actually read the Gideon Bible provided to them. As Gideon International estimates that each Bible has a lifespan of roughly six years, that means that each one is read by roughly 2300 people during its hotel room stay. The numbers are based on research conducted by Gideon through the hotel industry.

I shudder to think of the germs.

Though I guess that God cleans it.

tchrist

Like money.

> But with 1.5 million Catholics expected to flood the region for the World Meeting of Families later this year, might it be a problem that many Philly hotels are stocked with those Bibles -- that is, Protestant Bibles?

Robusto

12:57 PM

Catholics use the Douay version, IIRC.

Johan Larsson

1:17 PM

github.com/Dobiasd/…

terdon

Are they different? Significantly?

Johan Larsson

Languages?

tchrist

@terdon The Catholic Bible includes the Apocrypha.

terdon

@tchrist Ah. In the standard edition? I'd think Catholics would prefer the Protestant one then, it allows them to avoid some of the more funky bits.

tchrist

Catholic Bible

The Catholic Bible is the Bible comprising the whole 73-book canon recognized by the Catholic Church, including the deuterocanonical books. == Books includedEdit == The Catholic Bible is composed of the 46 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament. === Old TestamentEdit === Pentateuch : Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy Historical books : Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees Sapiential books : Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon...

"Deuterocanonical"

> Of these books, Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, parts of Esther and parts of Daniel are deuterocanonical, and are usually not found in the Protestant Bible, but are found in the Bibles of Eastern Christianity.

Robusto

1:24 PM

@tchrist Actually, I think it doesn't include those. It specifically excludes Revelation.

> New Testament apocrypha—books similar to those in the New Testament but almost universally rejected by Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants—include several gospels and lives of apostles.

Apocrypha

Apocrypha are works, usually written works, that are of unknown authorship, or of doubtful authenticity, or spurious, or not considered to be within a particular canon. The word is properly treated as a plural, but in common usage is often singular. In the context of the Jewish and Christian Bibles, where most texts are of unknown authorship, Apocrypha usually refers to a set of texts included in the Septuagint but not in the Hebrew Bible. The word's origin is the Medieval Latin adjective apocryphus, "secret, or non-canonical", from the Greek adjective ἀπόκρυφος (apokryphos), "obscure", from the...

tchrist

@Robusto I haven't seen that.

Robusto

Well, I was told in Catholic school that the Douay version of the bible, the one we used, went to great pains to exclude apocrypha. Of course, one must consider the source.

0

Q: Why is using the definite article with certain demonyms used as prospective evidence of racial discomfort?

For a certain kind of person, using a construction with "the" and a demonym is hopelessly archaic, indicative of some sort of racial discomfort on the part of the speaker. For example, to say, "I am friendly with the Blacks" instead of, "I am friendly with Blacks" is often a point of comedy for s...

definite-article

Primarily opinon based.

@tchrist Hmm, I may be mistaken, or things may have changed in 50 years.

> Even today, it is the only New Testament work not read in the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Orthodox Church, though it is included in Catholic and Protestant liturgies.

I specifically remember looking for that as a kid because it had the most lurid stories, but not finding it.

Maybe we had "kids-version" bibles on top of everything else. Who knows?

Not anymore.

terdon

I thought all Bibles excluded the Apocrypha, which is why they're called Apocrypha.

Which is what Robusto said.

Robusto

I don't know. I probably shouldn't attempt to speak intelligently about things I rejected in high school and hated for years before that.

tchrist

1:40 PM

deuterocanonical

Adjective: deuterocanonical ‎(not comparable)

(biblical) Being of the second canon of the Old Testament of the Bible, and unaccepted by some Christians. A book which is part of the Apocrypha.

Deuterocanonical books

Deuterocanonical books is a term used since the 16th century in the Catholic Church and Eastern Christianity to describe certain books and passages of the Christian Old Testament that are not part of the current Hebrew Bible. The term is used in contrast to the protocanonical books, which are contained in the Hebrew Bible. This distinction had previously contributed to debate in the early Church about whether they should be classified as canonical texts. The term is used as a matter of convenience by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and other Churches to refer to books of their Old Testament...

> However, some editions of the Bible include text from both deuterocanonical and non-canonical scriptures in a single section designated "Apocrypha". This arrangement can lead to conflation between the otherwise distinct terms "deuterocanonical" and "apocryphal".

> In current Lutheran usage antilegomena describes those New Testament books that have achieved a doubtful place in the Canon. These are the Epistles of James and Jude, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, the Apocalypse of John, and the Epistle to the Hebrews.

> Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon (notably, he perceived them to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide), but this was not generally accepted among his followers. However, these books are ordered last in the German-language Luther Bible to this day.

Robusto

1:58 PM

And to think, the whole Protestant reformation was due largely to the invention of the printing press.

skill patrol

Really? I did not know that.

Robusto

2:14 PM

@skillpatrol For the first time common-ish people had access to the bible, and could form their own opinions about what it meant.

skill patrol

Right.

tchrist

It wasn't in Latin.

Robusto

What had been smoldering for centuries as a resentment toward the overreaches and mercenary practices like simony were now found to be nowhere endorsed in the bible's pages, merely something added by the power structure of the Church.

tchrist

> The richest fruit of Luther's leisure in the Wartburg, and the most important and useful work of his whole life, is the translation of the New Testament, by which he brought the teaching and example of Christ and the Apostles to the mind and heart of the Germans in life-like reproduction. It was a republication of the gospel. He made the Bible the people's book in church, school, and house.

skill patrol

Politics and Religion are inseparable imo.

Robusto

2:17 PM

I disagree. They should absolutely be separate, as is provided for in the U.S. Constitution.

tchrist

Only in theocratic dictatorships.

skill patrol

It's just an opinion.

Mitch

3:01 PM

Wait...is it Sunday?

Johan Larsson

Sunday

Mitch

Somewhere in the world

How do they count the date in the ISS?

They orbit every 90 minutes

Do the Russians go by different time than the anericansnit is it all GMT

tchrist

UTC

Robusto

3:42 PM

@Mitch So what don't you understand about the difference between anacoluthon and metanoia?

-5

Q: “A big pair of breasts ” vs. “A pair of big breasts”

I am aware of the question “A new pair of ” or “A pair of new”. However, there is a specific case where all the answers seems not to be fully satisfactory for the specific case of a big pair of breasts (Or “tits”) a pair of big breasts (Or “tits”) The answers state that in case of ...

meaning adjectives usage

Can we get one more delete vote on this?

tchrist

4:00 PM

Done.

Hm.

And I didn't think much about it. Probably I should have.

Mitch

It's a dupe very much if that makes you feel better.

user116848

Sup!

Mitch

Dine!

user116848

So...

tchrist

Navajo people

The Navajo or Navaho (Navajo: Diné or Naabeehó) of the Southwestern United States are the largest federally recognized tribe in the United States with 300,048 enrolled tribal members as of 2011. The Navajo Nation constitutes an independent governmental body, which manages the Navajo reservation in the Four Corners area of the United States. The Navajo language is spoken throughout the region with most Navajo speaking English as well. The states with the largest Navajo populations are Arizona (140,263) and New Mexico (108,306). Over three-quarters of the Navajo population reside in these two states...

Mitch

4:11 PM

What's the context where you want to use this? An essay about the emasculation of the modern male? A locker room juvenile trash talk battle? A Reddit discussion on SWJs? — Mitch 2 mins ago

Please someone respond and say "that's only one alternative context"

user116848

Reddit's discussions are fun to read sometimes.

Mitch

Are they moderated?

tchrist

Why does this attract so much crap?

12

Q: Etymology of "medicine" and its Native American usage

What is the etymology of the word medicine and how did it come to be used by Native Americans to describe something that does not strictly meet the denotative meaning of medicine? Or is that just a Hollywood piece of nonsense?

etymology idioms

user116848

@Mitch I don't know. I just read sometimes, don't participate though.

tchrist

@Mitch If you emasculate a male modem, you are left with two female connectors.

user116848

4:14 PM

So, I was reading something on Wattpad and I noticed that I was logged in with my full original name there, duh. Must have logged in through facebook or something.

user116848

Can't remember now.

Mitch

@tchrist modern technology has given us adapters that switch among all.

tchrist

Quoth John Varley.

Mitch

@tchrist because people are dumb. Also, the world just googles randomly and maybe that shows up high on the list?

@tchrist haha. wait... who is that?

tchrist

sweepazungugol

Mitch

4:29 PM

@Robusto The wiki page (which should be referenced in an answer) makes it sound, not llke it is a self interruption, but rather an in-sentence logical non sequitur or a disfluency in grammar from one clause to the next. metanoia (again from wikipedia) is just changing one's mind; one clause says one thing and the next changes it (strengthen or opposite). Also there's a question from way back

They -both- seem to be applicable to the OP's desire for a word for 'interrupting oneself.

I just wanted your answer to be more complete, so that readers (namely me) wouldn't have to do all the research myself. Also, the wiki examples are not that particularly enlightening.

My mnemonic for them will be anacoluthon is more like a non sequitur (because that is what anacoluthon is etymologically) and metanoia is correction.

tchrist

@Robusto Do you remember something you once said about English being weird among all European languages save for um Celtic? in the way we using progressives and present perfects? This is the first time I have ever seen that. Not this is the first time I see/saw that.

Mitch

do-support is pretty messed up.

also spelling. Celtic is worse than english.

tchrist

Super.

Super = Sudhoghamhareallough

Mitch

Exactamente ... pronounced 'yeah'

crl

5:16 PM

hmm "strengthed" is considered monosyllabic

but.. "listen" is 2 syllabes, "listened" is 3 right?

tchrist

No.

crl

oh 2 also, ok

"listening" is 3?

tchrist

/strɛŋθt/

Just one vowel.

crl

I see

Mitch

What does 'strengthed' mean? is that a word? Do you mean strengthened?

@crl it can be 2 or three. lis-ning or lis-e-ning

crl

5:30 PM

@Mitch obsolete, but yes en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strength#Verb

Mitch

Oh. well, who knows -how- they pronounced it back then.

tchrist

> † strength, v. Obs.
Forms: see strength sb.; also 4 strengþi.

Etymology: f. strength sb.

1. trans. To give strength to, to make strong or stronger, to strengthen, fortify, confirm.

C. 1160 Hatton Gosp. Luke i. 80 ― Soðlice se cnape weox & wæs on gaste ʒe-stræncþed.
A. 1225 Ancr. R. 140 ― Heo temeð wel hire fulitowene fleschs, & strenðeð & deð menske hire wurðfule soule.
1297 R. Glouc. (Rolls) 4720 ― Hii··strengþede castles.
13·· Cursor M. 22366 (Gött.) ― Þai sal··strinth þaim al gain þat fight.

@Mitch Oh, I’m sure it had a syllable on the inflection.

strengthèd

ʒe-stræncþèd

> Alle the strengthid cities of Iuda.

See the i there?

The one in strengthed not the one in Juda.

Zaid

5:45 PM

Hi all

2

Q: Why do they called motor bike instead of engine bike?

In Bikes, major part plays by 4 stroke petrol engine, then why did they named as motor bike or cycle instead of engine bike?

motorcycle

We don't usually get etymological questions on mechanics.SE

tchrist

For the same reason it is a motorcar not an *engine-car.

Zaid

Lol, it's kind of hard to explain it though

I tried to build some analogies in my answer (rotor/rotation , motor/motion)

But it's hardly my forté

tchrist

It's because we have a zillion motor- words.

> motorboard ← motor [n. and adj.]
ˈmotor-boat [n.]
ˈmotor-boating [vbl. n.]
motor-boatist [n.]
motorcade [n.]
ˈmotor car [n.]
motor cell ← motor [n. and adj.]
Motor City [n.]
motorcross [n.]
motorcrosser [n.]
ˈmotor-cycle [n.]
motorcycle combination ← motorcycle [n.]
motorcycle mama ← motorcycle [n.]
motorcycle officer ← motorcycle [n.]
ˈmotor-cycling [vbl. n.] ← ˈmotor-cycle
motordom [n.]
motor driver ← motor [n. and adj.]
motor gasoline ← motor [n. and adj.]
motorhead [n.]
motor house ← motor [n. and adj.]

And very few engine words.

> engine block ← engine [n.]
engine chip ← engine [n.]
engine compartment ← engine [n.]
engine cowling ← engine [n.]
engineer [n.]
engineering [vbl. n.]
engineering brick ← engineering [n.]
engineering ceramics ← engineering [n.]
engineeringly ← engineering [n.]
engineership [n.]
† engiˈneery [n.]
engine failure ← engine [n.]
engine head ← engine [n.]
engine immobilizer ← engine [n.]
engine keeper ← engine [n.]
engineman [n.]
engine manufacturer ← engine [n.]
engine mounting ← engine [n.]
engine noise ← engine [n.]

Zaid

It looks like locomotive has lost out to the humble motor

tchrist

Trains are locomotives, not motors. :)

Zaid

6:03 PM

I guess the question is what the loco brings to locomotion that motion by itself doesn't capture

Johan Larsson

6:21 PM

The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

Tweeted by realDonaldTrump on November 6, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Mitch

6:52 PM

@crl 2 syllables for strengthed in middle or Early Modern English, but no syllables now because people don't use it now

crl

ok, also I took a bad example with listen/listened (2/2 syllables), I should have said list/listed (1/2 normally)

Mitch

7:28 PM

Yes listed = 2 syllables

Robusto

8:57 PM

Jul 1 '11 at 13:26, by Robusto

"English is not, then, solely an offshoot of Proto-Germanic that inhaled a whole bunch of foreign words. It is an offshoot of P.G. that traded grammar with offshoots of Proto-Celtic. The result was a structurally hybrid tongue, whose speakers today use Celtic-derived constructions almost every time they open their mouths ..."

Not quite the same, but if you look for me saying Celtic or McWhorter you might find something pertinent.

tchrist

Thanks.

Robusto

I was probably talking about do-support.

tchrist

Perhaps that was it. I thought it was not using the non-progressive present as much in English as compared with most other European languages.

Mitch

9:53 PM

@tchrist Doesn't Spanish do some 'progressive' a la English eg "yo estoy leyendo un libro" -> "I am reading a book"

Cerberus

10:24 PM

@Robusto Can you give me an example of a Celtic construction?

Oh, do support. Is that really Celtic?

@tchrist That is indeed weird, but I always thought it was a more recent development.

Johan Larsson

Why do they have one in Calais?

Cerberus

Against immigrants trying to enter Britain through the tunnel.

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://…

Johan Larsson

who built it?

Cerberus

The English.

Presumably with French help.

Johan Larsson

10:40 PM

recently?

Cerberus

I don't know how recently.

tchrist

@Mitch It does, and quite a bit too, but nothing like English where the progressive is often required for normal present tense stuff.

Cerberus

It is very strange to us.

tchrist

Portuguese is similar, although the Brazilians use the estou falando construct where the Portuguese use estou a falar to mean the same thing.

Cerberus

The most basic kind of sentence, I talk to you, needs a participle/gerund.

tchrist

10:42 PM

@Cerberus Which one is Texas again?

@Cerberus Yes, that.

Cerberus

The one shaped like Saudi Arabia.

tchrist

Makes sense.

Cerberus

@tchrist It's weird and unnatural.

tchrist

And here I always thought you were more progressive than that.

What are you doing? I’m talking to my mother.

That doesn’t need a progressive in (many?) other languages.

Especially for the first one.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist star

tchrist

10:46 PM

Now I'm going to have search Rob for progressives.

Jul 1 '11 at 13:25, by Robusto

From OMBT by McWhorter:
1. The Angles, Saxons, and Jutes encountered Celtic speakers.
2. Meaningless *do* in the affirmative, negative, and interrogative is found nowhere on earth except in Celtic and English.
3. English is the only Germanic language that uses its verb-noun progressive as the only to express present tense; Welsh and Cornish do the same.

That was what I was remembering.

Only four years. Not bad.

Cerberus

@tchrist Wat doe je? Ik praat met mijn moeder.

Johan Larsson

four years in chat is like a week

2

Cerberus

See, it's simple.

tchrist

@Cerberus Qu’est-ce que tu fais? Je parle avec ma mère.

Cerberus

@tchrist But Welsh and Cornish may have been influenced by English, if Celtic doesn't use the progressive there.

@tchrist Oui, comme ça. Mais les français ajoutent plusieurs de mots casses...

tchrist

10:53 PM

¿Qué haces? Hablo con mi madre.
O que fazes? Falo com a minha mãe.

Cerberus

Err that was a Latinism, I should have said vains or something.

And is it plusieurs de?

tchrist

I think so.

I'm not sure you need the de.

Il y a eu plusieurs d'occasions dans lesquelles je ne fait rien.

tchrist

11:11 PM

Happy sheep from Galicia!

Cerberus

> It's the same as in English:
several feminists = plusieurs féministes
several of the feminists = plusieurs des féministes

I think this is right.

tchrist

Ah ok.

Cerberus

Recently, my newspapers wrote about "Galicia, in the western part of the Habsburg Empire".

tchrist

That's unkind.

Cerberus

They corrected it later: "of course that should have been the eastern part".

But both Galiciae were once part of the Habsburg Empire...

tchrist

11:13 PM

Well, but under Carlos Quinto, the Imperador, Galicia was in the western part of their empire.

Cerberus

So the of course may or may not have been "of course wrong".

But the context probably made it clear which Galicia was intended.

tchrist

Do you think if Atlanta changes its state's name that Putin will be less likely to invade? :)

Cerberus

Huh?

I thought Atlanta was a city?

Or is that Atlantic City?

tchrist

Yes, in Georgia.

Cerberus

Ah.

I think the difference will be negligible.

tchrist

11:20 PM

Do you know why England has more Pakistanis and Indians than America? Because they heard we still put them on reservations.

> Spanish is a funny language,
where the “sopa” isn’t soap,
and the “ropa” isn’t rope,
and the butter is meant-to-kill-you (“mantequilla”).

Mitch

11:43 PM

@tchrist but the weird thing is that English has very very few words of celtic origin. So if Cornish and Welsh do, then the evidence points more towards them getting those weird things from English.

@tchrist In Spanish I can't tell when estoy hablando vs hablo is right.

tchrist

It’s not really straightforward.

There's leeway there.

Cerberus

@Mitch Jinx.

tchrist

But they don't use it as much.

The thing is, we usually only get nouns.

Not grammatical patterns.

Mitch

This would all be made simpler if people would stop with their stupid weird foreign languages and speak English like a normal person.

tchrist

Hwæt!

Mitch

11:50 PM

Actually I vote for Mandarin if only they'd switch to pin yin

Also, I think there really is accounting for taste. With double entry bookkeeping we could keep everything in line.

For example, the movie ..um... can't remember it's name.. most people didn't like it but I thought it had some very redeeming qualities. Bascially I'm saying they're wrong.

Surrogates!

That's the name. Of the movie. Not some random ejaculation aimed at people who do that kind of thing.

tchrist

I wonder what a keening banshee is in Dutch.

Cerberus

@Mitch You are mistaken. English is a foreign language to most people.

@tchrist Umm we don't have a word for banshee, that I know.

Keening would be huilend or klagend or whatever.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…