TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2015-08-24

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12:27 AM

@egreg: I forgot to mention in my email, but I can talk about arara in the GuIT meeting. :)

9 hours later…

9:38 AM

The Ashes are finished and there's nothing to talk about.

@egreg Oh no!

SP awaits for me, have a great day, friends!

9:55 AM

@PauloCereda Have a nice shake!

10:12 AM

@PauloCereda you too :)

Just noticed something odd.

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{mathtools}
\usepackage{calc}

\begin{document}
\[\mathmakebox[\widthof{\equiv}]{.}\]
\end{document}

Compiles with lua but not with xe and pdf

the reasond ($$) is clear, but that's quite inconsistent.

@daleif In `mathtools` there are some redundancies for \AtBeginDocument{
\providecommand*\dblcolon{\mathrel{\vcentcolon\mkern-.9mu\vcentcolon}}
\providecommand*\coloneqq{\mathrel{\vcentcolon\mkern-1.2mu=}}
\providecommand*\Coloneqq{\mathrel{\dblcolon\mkern-1.2mu=}}
\providecommand*\coloneq{\mathrel{\vcentcolon\mkern-1.2mu\mathrel{-}}}
\providecommand*\Coloneq{\mathrel{\dblcolon\mkern-1.2mu\mathrel{-}}}
\providecommand*\eqqcolon{\mathrel{=\mkern-1.2mu\vcentcolon}}
\providecommand*\Eqqcolon{\mathrel{=\mkern-1.2mu\dblcolon}}

@daleif as \dblcolon, \vcentcolon, and clearly \mathrel{-} are all math relatives, the first \mathrel is not needed. Thanks.

10:35 AM

@LaRiFaRi \sbox0{\equiv} raises no error with LuaLaTeX

@egreg a feature?

@LaRiFaRi @LaRiFaRi A bug, in my opinion. It's also in plain LuaTeX: \setbox0=\hbox{\equiv}

@egreg in my opinion, too. Thanks for the feedback from someone who understands a bit more. I will do a report... like always.

10:58 AM

@LaRiFaRi but do they do any harm?

Perhaps it is to make sure that they are compatible with breqn

@daleif That could be a reason.

@daleif But breqn is at fault anyway in considering every relation symbol as a break point in a display.

@egreg sure, why?

11:19 AM

@daleif doesn't seem related to breqn, it just seems that \mathchar silently acts like \char in text mode, this gives no error

\equiv \alpha


\bye

@egreg could you remind me, who won?

11:32 AM

@egreg I've found a jewel!

\begin{table}[h!]
\begin{tabular}{|l|c|c|c|}
\hline
\multicolumn{1}{|c|}{\begin{tabular}[c]{@{}c@{}}Parameter\end{tabular}}                 & \begin{tabular}[c]{@{}c@{}}Method \end{tabular} & \begin{tabular}[c]{@{}c@{}}Type\end{tabular} & Unit \\ \hline
\begin{tabular}[c]{@{}l@{}}Charge analysis\end{tabular}                                                     & LM                                                                                    & input                                                                                     & \%             \\ \hline

@DavidCarlisle I see you've decided to take the risk

@yo' Wow! It takes time to think about this!

@egreg and it's a lot of copy-paste coding :-)

@JosephWright mail sent to team :-)

@egreg btw, LaTeX Warning: !h' float specifier changed to !ht'. 5 times in the document :)

11:47 AM

@yo' Do you think the average user looks at warnings?

@daleif No, no harm I guess. Just a bit odd.

@DavidCarlisle are you talking about the mathtools issue or the LuaTeX issue?

@egreg well, you know the answer :-)

@JosephWright did you see the \mathchardef weirdness in luatex above?

but frankly, TeX would use some better logging features. Like a switch to clean up the log from things people do not understand anyway. TeX-specific editors do help, probably, to some extent

@DavidCarlisle I got a bit confused as you addressed daleif. But I think you have been looking at the LuaTeX stuff.

11:52 AM

@LaRiFaRi yes probably misread the thread a bit: it was just ending as I came back to my desk:-) Are you planning to mail the luatex list (or use their bug tracker) or I could. It seems to affect new commands like \Umathchardef as well as classic \mathchardef defined tokens

@DavidCarlisle To be honest, I would be happy, if you do. Just because I have no account on neither of those two channels. Thank you.

@LaRiFaRi OK I'll do it. They are used to @JosephWright or me pestering them by now:-)

@DavidCarlisle Very well. Like this, I do not have to make my hands dirty...

thanks.

@DavidCarlisle If this is wanted (I hope not), there should be an option to revert back to normal TeX behavior.

@egreg vv

The parameters for the mathematical model can be obtained by laboratory experiments, operating values analysis from the information system or measurement on the device.
\\
\textbf{Determination of heat transfer coefficient for the mathematical model}
\\
Magnesite samples ... 300 $\degree C$ (see Fig.~\ref{fig:fig6}). The enter of .... With the temperature of ~ 20 $\degree C$, the samples were gradually ... individual samples was <0.5 $mm$ with a volume of about 30 $cm^{3}$.

@egreg I love the tilde, especially ;)

11:58 AM

@egreg, @LaRiFaRi seems like @JosephWright reported this in 2011: tug.org/mailman/htdig/luatex/2011-December/003364.html

Taco replied that it is a feature :(

Aug 18 at 18:59, by yo'

@Johannes_B that's ... unbelievable.

@DavidCarlisle A very silly one.

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright The luatex version of LaTeX should disable that behavior.

@egreg section 5.12.2 of the luatex manual. I don't see any way really to disable this in latex

"The commands \mathchar , and \Umathchar and control sequences that are the result of \math-
chardef or \Umathchardef are also acceptable in the horizontal and vertical modes. In those cases,
the \textfont from the requested math family is used."

@LaRiFaRi ah, so it's a feature? :)

12:06 PM

@yo' Clearly. But seems as not everybody is too happy about it.

@egreg Could you think of an example where this would do a serious harm? If yes, David could report this.

As it stands now it is more a "oh, something different than usual, but well..." case

@LaRiFaRi the main loss is that it loses the error check that traditionally you get if you forget $, but they would probably say making zzz \alpha zzz work rather than give an error is a plus. Personally I'd prefer the error but on error free documents there is no difference so hard to make a conclusive example where it does harm.

@DavidCarlisle True. I just try to figure out a situation, where I would like to get my mathchar printed in textfont. Can't think of one.

If I had such a case, it would of course be nice to distinguish "bla blup \equiv bla blup $\equiv$.

@LaRiFaRi I suspect it is exactly for the use above. rather than needing separate \alpha and \textalpha commands.

@DavidCarlisle Well, you could reply to that mailing you have found in order to get an explanation for that 'feature'. Maybe they have thought of something usefull.

@LaRiFaRi I could, put perhaps I won't, we are gradually trying to get latex to a position where we can support luatex as an engine and that means we need at times to report real bugs that are stopping that happening, so try to keep my bug reports to a minimum to highlight those cases:-)

12:15 PM

@DavidCarlisle A clear loss in my eyes is the compatibility to the other formats. Thinking about that, I think it does a real harm. It should be no problem to use \textalpha or some \ensuremathes where it is really needed and desired

@LaRiFaRi one thing we found very quickly is that "compatibility with other formats" is a non-issue. For latex it is a major issue, but it is not part of the design aim for luatex/context

@DavidCarlisle In my example above \widthof{\equiv}, it could have done harm because the spacing of the text version could be different than what I expect. With the error, I would have found my clear mistake at once.

@DavidCarlisle What a pity. I am using Lua... all the time but would like to copy parts of it to somewhere else, still. Well, I will have to keep my coding clean than. Thanks for looking at it and, yes, I understand your remarks on bug-reporting.

@LaRiFaRi for the few justified usages of \ensuremath (or \text the other way around):

> \degree=\protected macro:
->\text {\textdegree }.

@LaRiFaRi yes (but playing devil's advocate) the difference with classic tex is that in classic text your text font has no such symbol so an error is best that could be done anyway, but with unicode fonts your text font probably has got U+2261 so there is an argument that making \equiv access that character is a reasonable thing to do.

@yo' Is that from siuntx?

12:20 PM

@LaRiFaRi no, from my own class. The point is: \degree makes sense in both math mode and text mode, and should look the same. So here you go :)

ah, ok. I ensuremath or text quite a few things. Handy sometimes if you know what you are doing. I always try to keep the things looking the same. That's why I stated above that I would not have liked to get \equiv from some other font.

But maybe there are use-cases.... who knows.

@LaRiFaRi I agree with @David that this has a lot to do with unicode. But I don't agree that allowing \mathchar in text mode is the solution.

@yo' I think it is bad, but I'm just arguing (on behalf of people not here to argue for themsleves) why it might be argued that it is not a bug.

@yo' absolutely. You can type zzz ≡ yyy in your text, if you want to have it unicoded and in textfont

\equiv is math and belongs in math. Keeps it clean and compatible.

@DavidCarlisle Oh, I remember that one

12:32 PM

@LaRiFaRi well yes and no. If you use unicode-math then \equiv is same as U+2261 and works in text and math also in xelatex.

@DavidCarlisle ah, ok.

@JosephWright, @WillRobertson I can't use unicode-math any more in lualatex:) ! Control sequence \crampeddisplaystyle already defined.

@DavidCarlisle OK, so there is something I missed then :-)

@JosephWright or my paths are out of sync, as I thought you'd trapped that. will check in a bit.

@DavidCarlisle I remember suggesting a fix, but perhaps that go mislaid

@DavidCarlisle Not in GitHub: I guess a pull request required

12:39 PM

@JosephWright OK need to check something else first I seem to have broken something \end occurred when \ifnum on line 150 was incomplete) had that for a while when testing but thought I'd fixed it before commit.... (unpack.ins)

@DavidCarlisle github.com/wspr/unicode-math/pull/315

@DavidCarlisle github.com/wspr/unicode-math/pull/315#event-390492316

12:57 PM

@JosephWright yes I saw, I also saw you tell @WillRobertson it didn't matter if it was only broken for me:-)

@DavidCarlisle texlua build.lua install

\directlua{
  tex.enableprimitives("",tex.extraprimitives({"luatex","Umath"}))
}
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}

\begin{document}

\show\crampeddisplaystyle

\end{document}

Hello @WillRobertson

@JosephWright Hello, briefly :)

@WillRobertson What's your take on the LuaTeX plan?

@JosephWright yes:-)

@LaRiFaRi No, it will promote wrong usage: no error means that \alpha+\beta becomes legal in text mode and I've seen so bad input on Math.SE that this worries me.

1:09 PM

@JosephWright I... have no opinion at this stage :) I can see the arguments both ways (well, playing Devil's Advocate for Karl) and neither is enough — yet — to convincingly sway me either way. I definitely agree that dropping the prefixes is cleaner. And LuaLaTeX is so young, and the chance of name clashes small enough, that I think the jump is a good idea.

@egreg I've thought about this before in the context of "what happens when users start pasting in plain unicode math" — you might think it's nice to auto-detect when maths starts and switch modes without needing markup. But the same argument can be made for auto-language switching when the script changes — it's too "leaky" around the edges. Sure, "where ratio \alpha is bleah" works fine, and maybe even "sum of ratios \alpha+\beta is blah" works too…

@egreg … but what about "where -\gamma causes instability" ? You can't parse it reliably so you should always require the math switch in the first place. (You might make a very similar argument about breqn!! But I think the situation there is slightly different. For reasons that escape me at present.)

@WillRobertson No, the spacing is completely wrong.

@egreg Oh, what I mean is that once \alpha is seen as a math symbol, the mode remains in maths mode until "text" reappears (the same technique used by \XeTeXcharclass). It definitely doesn't work now :)

@WillRobertson What about \alpha+x?

@egreg Sorry I'm being unclear. I meant to say "you could imagine a setup in which…"

@egreg, @WillRobertson as noted above \alpha+\beta becomes legal in text mode with unicode-math even in xetex so not worrying too much about luatex primitive, making it an error in uniocde-math would be quite expensive I suspect.

1:17 PM

@egreg Exactly!! So we should always require $…$ or similar and have maths symbols cause errors.

2

@WillRobertson That's why I think it's a very silly feature.

@DavidCarlisle I had never thought through the ramifications of that. Hmm.

@DavidCarlisle I could make all symbols math active (which is definitely under consideration for the longer term) and set them to the invalid catcode otherwise?

@WillRobertson There are so many “the function f(x)” around, that adding cases where math is not properly marked up promotes bad typesetting.

@WillRobertson You can't make greek catcode invalid can you?

@egreg I have to read entire books in which not a single italic (let alone math italic) is seen for text that's full of mathematics. Makes me sad.

@DavidCarlisle Ohhhhh, well users should be typing in plane 1 unicode. And I could adjust the macros that expand to greek plane 0 to expand to a mathchar instead? But then still have the LuaTeX issue :)

@DavidCarlisle s/mathchar/mathchardef'd symbol/

@DavidCarlisle In the end it comes down to the same problem as ASCII :) If the users type the wrong thing, we can't always save them.

1:27 PM

@WillRobertson yes it isn't clear to me that \alpha+\beta is worse than a+b it's just that we are used to catching one and not the other

@DavidCarlisle Maybe that's what Taco was thinking too!

@WillRobertson I suspect so. repeating the \alpha,\textalpha duplication over the entire unicode range probably didn't appeal:-)

@WillRobertson but while making greek letter commands work like textual greek is reasonble, it's a shame that it affects everything such as \sum and, as noted above, \equiv. But most real math expressions hopefuuly have ^ or \left or something that will generate an errror in text mode

@DavidCarlisle Agreed. Definitely something to consider for math active support in unicode-math!

! Undefined control sequence.
\font_suppress_not_found_error: ...tnotfounderror
                                                  =1
\fontspec_select:nn ..._suppress_not_found_error:
                                                  \__fontspec_init: \tl_set:...
\fontspec_set_fontface:NNnn ..._select:nn {#3}{#4}
                                                  \tl_set_eq:NN #1\l_fontspe...
\__um_fontspec_select_font: ...l__um_fontname_tl }
                                                  \group_begin: \fontfamily ...

@WillRobertson @JosephWright recognise that^^^ ?

\ifx\directlua\undefined\else
\directlua{
  tex.enableprimitives("",
    tex.extraprimitives({"Umath","luatex","aleph","omega"}))
}
\let\crampeddisplaystyle\undefined
\let\crampedtextstyle\undefined
\let\crampedscriptstyle\undefined
\let\crampedscriptscriptstyle\undefined
\fi
\documentclass{article}
\errorcontextlines1000
\usepackage{unicode-math}

\begin{document}

\alpha + \beta

\end{document}

1:46 PM

@DavidCarlisle That's coming from fontspec…

  \cs_set:Npn \font_suppress_not_found_error:
%<xetexx>    {\int_set:Nn \suppressfontnotfounderror {1}}
%<luatex>    {\int_set:Nn \luatexsuppressfontnotfounderror {1}}

But I'm afraid I have an early start tomorrow — good night. Oh hi @FrankMittelbach :)

@DavidCarlisle \textfont0 is not yet set up. I bet Taco didn't think of this. And \Large \alpha will be funny as well.

Frank Mittelbach

@WillRobertson 'night Will

@FrankMittelbach Sorry I missed you — wasn't here for long :)

Frank Mittelbach

@WillRobertson just arrived by opening my laptop

how is the family doing?

2:00 PM

@DavidCarlisle, @WillRobertson I'll put in a few pull requests to start tackling the \luatex... business in a 'safe' way (leave open a change without breaking anything now)

@egreg yes, I agree, almost any use of the feature will be bad

@WillRobertson, (@DavidCarlisle) Rather than adjust fontspec, unicode-math, etc. to look for the primitive names, a better plan is to require an up-to-date expl3 as I've already set that up to collect them up 'safely' as \luatex_... or \utex.... I'll make some pull requests using that approach later on (after work).

@WillRobertson Probably ignore the latest pull request until I sort this :-) (or I'll sort myself anyway in a later one)

2:18 PM

@JosephWright oops just accepted that before closing my laptop.

@WillRobertson Saw that :-) No problems, I'll do a bit of work later (assuming you are happy with this as a plan)

@FrankMittelbach Growing and kicking a lot :-)

@JosephWright I'm always happy with your plans :-)

Okay now gone for real. Good night!

@JosephWright I forgot what's the place for the small announcements in the right column, can you help?

@egreg You mean mod-starred posts?

@egreg Or on the main site?

@JosephWright The main site

2:22 PM

@egreg one of the mods can feature a meta post, or if we have an 'event' it will appear automatically

@JosephWright Karl Berry asked me if it's possible to promote contributions to TUGboat, maybe adding a link tug.org/TUGboat/location.html would do.

@egreg Community ad?

@egreg Or write a meta post and I can feature it

@JosephWright Yes, that's what they're called!

@egreg Karl gets a steady stream from me :-)

26

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A: Community Promotion Ads - 2015

TUGboat is already featured

@JosephWright Yes, maybe adding a featured meta thread is better.

2:28 PM

I'm just blind right now, this might be basic, sorry if it's a silly question. Why does =\mathrel{\mathop:}= vertically center the colon while =\mathrel{\mathop{:}}= doesn't?

What exactly is defined to be like that?

@Manuel actually I misread your example a bit. \mathop is defined to vertically centre its content if it is a single character so {} or anything really, stops the centering. Let me just check exact;y what tex's doing on that example (I thought the first was an error to be honest:-)

@DavidCarlisle I thought that too, until today. I thought the braces were mandatory.

@Manuel I see no difference at all with : but if I use . then both of your forms vertically centre:

$=\mathrel{\mathop.}=$


$=\mathrel{\mathop{.}}=$


$=\mathop.=$


$.\mathop{.}.$


\bye

user image

That's the weird thing, if you do what you did with : it doesn't center it when \mathop{:}.

@JosephWright I added a question on Meta: meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/6267/…

2:39 PM

@Manuel I could see no difference at all when using : (didn't turn on tracing exactly, but isn't that just because : is vertically centred anyway)

@DavidCarlisle Compare $-\mathop:\mathop{:}-$ with $-\mathop.\mathop{.}-$ .

By the way, I thought all \mathwhatever atoms had the braces as mandatory syntax, what a new thing :)

user image

@Manuel hmmmmmm

@Manuel Weird

@Manuel OK the tracing shows why the visual difference. with : you get :

\mathrel
.\fam0 :
\mathop
.\fam0 :
\mathop
.\mathrel
..\fam0 :

which means that the last one has a nested math list so no vertical centering

but with . you get

\mathord
.\fam1 :
\mathop
.\fam1 :
\mathop
.\fam1 :

so in all cases there is no nested math list so ypu do get vertical centering.

Now all we need is @egreg or @FrankMittelbach to read tex.web and work out why the heck that should be:

LaTeX can use dvi images?

2:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle It seems weird to me, but I don't know what's happening.

In any case, mathtools has this in account. The definition of \vcentcolon is \mathrel{\mathop\ordinarycolon} which in turn does \mathrel{\mathop:}. But seems weird anyways.

Another question, for myself, is why did I think that braces were mandatory :)

$:\mathop:\mathop{:}\showlists$

$.\mathop.\mathop{.}\showlists$

\bye

Not satisfied. No no no. no!!

@Manuel texbook says `^|\mathord|, ^|\mathop|, ^|\mathbin|, ^|\mathrel|, ^|\mathopen|,
^|\mathclose|, and ^|\mathpunct| are used for this purpose; each of them
is followed either by a single character or by a subformula in braces.`

@DavidCarlisle Module 749

@Manuel see, it's always good to have servants to do the legwork of looking up references! ^^^^

@egreg that says if the nucleus is a single character centre but why is \mathop{.} a single character but not \mathop{:} ?

@Johannes_B ? (dvipaste) (or the excellent grfpaste package wrapper for that)

3:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle My favourite template got a revision and now the doc is stating that. As my own name is now in there as well:

10 mins ago, by Johannes_B

Not satisfied. No no no. no!!

@DavidCarlisle Pass.

@DavidCarlisle However, \mathop{\mathord:} centers the colon

\mathrel
.\fam0 =
\mathop
.\fam0 :
\mathop
.\fam0 :
\mathrel
.\fam0 =

$=\mathop:\mathop{\mathord:}=$

@egreg any chance of @Manuel picking up a cheque from you-know-who? do you think?

@Manuel Thanks for the link

so much discussion on tex.stackexchange.com/q/262878... nice.

3:22 PM

@DavidCarlisle If He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named must write a cheque it definitely won't be for me :)

@LaRiFaRi I didn't write the link, sorry. But chat is accessible :) Let's see where this ends.

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle because . is an ord and : is not? TeXbook page 290

@FrankMittelbach ah thanks: I was looking in the wrong place (the vertical centering) so it's the brace removal that is different, OK....

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle tough .. no cheque

@Manuel no cheque, sorry:-)

@FrankMittelbach you type quicker than me:-)

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle I ran that one down before a while back .. had to remind me though how it was

3:35 PM

@FrankMittelbach "a while" as in "last week" or "a while" as in "last century" ?

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle somewhere inbetween I think but closer to the second

@DavidCarlisle not that I solved your math could you have a look at my expl3 name space questions?

@FrankMittelbach could try.... (still catching up on expl3 names)

@FrankMittelbach Which one?

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright the recent mails ...

@FrankMittelbach ah, bigint-related one?

Frank Mittelbach

3:41 PM

@JosephWright for example. eg should it be \exp_end: or \exp_stop: ... etc

@FrankMittelbach a bit arbitrary I think since the start is sort of unnamed. begin/end and start/stop go together but since the start is just exp:w that doesn't really give much of a hint to the name of the end command.

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle what speaks for \exp_end: is \cs:w ...\cs_end: what speaks for stop is the existence of \exp_stop_f:

@FrankMittelbach Bear with me: doing a few searches

@FrankMittelbach probably I'd say it was more like \exp_stop_f: than the csname case.

@FrankMittelbach What a pity :(

3:57 PM

@DavidCarlisle Agree :-)

@FrankMittelbach It's not exactly clear cut :-)

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright probably not, but I'm starting to lean towards stop too.

4:56 PM

@StefanKottwitz Maybe you want to take a look at this. golatex.de/…

2 hours later…

6:34 PM

Spurious space alert!!! Can someone find it? @egreg @DavidCarlisle @daleif

\documentclass[twoside]{memoir} % change to oneside to remove space
\counterwithin{section}{chapter}
\chapterstyle{section}
\newcommand*{\thebooktitle}{}
\renewcommand*{\printbooktitle}[1]{\gdef\thebooktitle{#1}\booktitlefont #1}
\renewcommand*{\printchapternum}{\chapnumfont\thebooktitle\ \thechapter}
\renewcommand{\thesection}{\arabic{section}}
\newcommand{\marginbox}[1]{%
   \parbox[t][0pt]{6em}{\bfseries\huge\raggedleft\leavevmode #1}}
 \newcommand{\marginhead}[1]{%
   {\llap{\marginbox{#1}\kern1em}}}

6:49 PM

@AlanMunn \tracingall is your friend

\sectionmark #1->\@setclcnt {section}{@memmarkcntra} \advance \c@@memmarkcntra
\m@ne \markright {\memUChead {\ifnum \c@secnumdepth > \c@@memmarkcntra \if@main
matter \@nameuse {sectionmarksn}{\@nameuse {thesection}. \ }\fi \fi #1}}

@egreg PracTeX Journal?

@AlanMunn The space is after {@memmarkcntra}

@JosephWright So it's a memoir bug.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B yes, thank you

@AlanMunn Looks like it

7:00 PM

@StefanKottwitz Any suggesstions/advice if something similar happens in the future?

@AlanMunn Search for setclcnt

Second and third uses miss out %

@JosephWright @daleif Yep, I just figured that out.

Stefan Kottwitz

7:25 PM

@Johannes_B hard to say! perhaps, removing a "bad" sentence by editing, and PM the poster that it's off topic and may cause trouble, in a friendly positive way

@StefanKottwitz PMs aren't working.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B such things sometimes result in one or more people going away for longer time

@Johannes_B ah, hm. No PM then but a diplomatic post :-) got to fix it

@StefanKottwitz The first time i saw two helpers fighting.

@StefanKottwitz While you are at it, splitting topics is broken as well. Both with the known problem: No title.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B yes, same root cause. got to leave to the bus, see you later

7:41 PM

@StefanKottwitz See you :-)

@yo' Is it alive?

@DavidCarlisle About?

@JosephWright yes

@DavidCarlisle Have nearly sorted the primitives business

@DavidCarlisle Anything need changing in lualatex-math for the ltluatex changes? I'm sorting out a pull request

7:58 PM

@JosephWright hmm, I see

\cs_new_protected_nopar:Npn \__lltxmath_set_mathchar:NN #1 #2 {
  \luatexUmathchardef #1

@JosephWright which I guess needs changing

@DavidCarlisle I've done all of these :-)

@DavidCarlisle I was thinking more the block

\NeedsTeXFormat{LaTeX2e}[2009/09/24]
\RequirePackage{expl3}[2015/06/26]
\ProvidesExplPackage{lualatex-math}{2014/08/18}{1.4}%
  {Patches for mathematics typesetting with LuaLaTeX}
\RequirePackage { etoolbox } [ 2007/10/08 ]
\RequirePackage { luatexbase } [ 2010/05/27 ]
\RequirePackage { filehook } [ 2011/03/09 ]
\RequireLuaModule { lualatex-math } [ 2013/08/03 ]

(expl3 date is new there)

@JosephWright ah RequireLuaModule could go then it probably wouldn't need luatexbase and would work with ltluatex (although that's academic until luaotfload doesn't force luatexbase)

@DavidCarlisle Just \directlua{require(...)}, yes?

@JosephWright yes

although scratch that for now the lua code really depends on the existing luatexbase lua code, oops `require("luatexbase.modutils")
require("luatexbase.cctb")`

@JosephWright I suppose we need to search for other uses of require("luatexbase.zzzz") in texlive and see about updating them....

@DavidCarlisle Something's a bit more complex: dropping the \RequireLuaModule line gives an error

8:12 PM

@JosephWright I'll test but as I say the lua code isn't going to work with ltluatex out of the box anyway

@JosephWright only other use I see is luamplib.lua: require('luatexbase.mcb')

@JosephWright I suppose if a "new" luatexbase distrib shipped an empty mcb.lua the above would work out OK....

@DavidCarlisle github.com/josephwright/lualatex-math

@JosephWright yes Ok perhaps you are right that there are few enough places doing this we can just get them updated.

@DavidCarlisle Pull request made

8:35 PM

@DavidCarlisle Does the pull request cover everything we need at present?

@JosephWright I think so looking by eye, haven't downloaded your version to really test. longer term I suppose we'd want to remove the luatexbase emulation dependency but that can wait?

@DavidCarlisle Yes, as it would break the code at the moment :-)

@JosephWright It's probably possible to write the code so it works with either but without any easy way for anyone other than us to test that probably not reasonable to make a pull request that does that,

@DavidCarlisle Just add an \ifdefined or is more needed?

@JosephWright well that to start with but I notice it uses the error functions returned from the module declaration so that would need adjusting ...

@JosephWright for similar reasons I suspect that luaotfload won't change until after a release so they can test the code on an existing format.

@JosephWright oh actually lualatex-math doesn't use them it just declares them local err, warn, info, log = luatexbase.provides_module({ so I guess that's OK, they are all just nil.

8:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle So could go now?

@JosephWright yes

@DavidCarlisle Added to pull request

@JosephWright then that just leaves local cctb = luatexbase.catcodetables... cctb.string to access the predefined string catcode table

@DavidCarlisle What needs to change there?

@JosephWright just thinking..... could do some fancy lua or chain that picked up the right thing, although tempting to do the test in tex, ...

@JosephWright untested but possibly change local cctb = luatexbase.catcodetables to local cctb = luatexbase.catcodetables or {string=registernumber('catcodetable@string')} should work?

luatexbase.registernumber( ^^^

9:34 PM

Expansion question: How do I get percent signs but not backslashes in the following? \ClassWarning{syllabus}{Total assignment values (\the@TotalValues\%) must equal 100\%}

@AndrewCashner use \@percentchar

@DavidCarlisle Thanks!

@DavidCarlisle Looks OK

@DavidCarlisle See checkin for 2e I had to make :-)

@egreg I dunno...

now I go to bed. This was a bad day with an even worse ending.

@JosephWright shouldn't that be inside the %<*tex> guard? (Currently we've again got multiple tex.enableprimitives calls in the format?

9:46 PM

@yo' Hoping tomorrow will be better for you!

@AndrewCashner so do I

now, good night.

@yo' Good night.

@AndrewCashner thanks.

I was not in control of that part, it is not my fault, i am innocent. I swear.

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