English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Like: "Is he/she/it following on foot afterwards?" But the lack of space between the "?" and the "T" (which I still think is a dative "te") is confusing.

But why "lo de después" instead of just "después" must have some further context.

It’s nominalizing an adverb.

I'm assuming Q always means que. And that here VS means vas.

Robusto

1:08 AM

@Cerberus Three genders instead of two. Much inflection, more cases, etc.

tchrist

You mean three genders for nouns.

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't know, the missing space would not surprise me in an SMS. But either way it's still vague. Oh, well.

Robusto

@tchrist Yes.

The spelling and vocabulary in German are relatively easy, however.

tchrist

Remember Spanish does have three genders for pronouns and to some extent, articles.

Cerberus

I agree with your other assumptions, based on what little I know.

@Robusto Mm only the cases, but they're not that super important.

I don't find them difficult.

Vocabulary is my only problem in German.

As in French.

tchrist

1:11 AM

German doesn’t have enough cases.

Cerberus

Indeed not.

Latin at least tries.

But Proto-Indo-European is where it's at.

tchrist

And it needs real declensions. I find German’s lack of rigor here to be more confusing than Latin because of this.

Robusto

And all the strong verbs that acquire umlauts or not. Lotta shit to remember.

tchrist

@Robusto How is that harder than remembering strong verbs in English or Spanish?

Cerberus

Turns out it was read out loud later, subtitled.

tchrist

1:13 AM

Hah.

Robusto

@tchrist I dunno. Maybe because they're not as obvious? Maybe I have a thing about those in German.

Cerberus

tchrist

Ok, lo de después just became the subject.

Cerberus

The subject?

tchrist

Is that afterwards business still happening?

Cerberus

1:14 AM

I see.

tchrist

Albeit on foot. :)

Cerberus

So that is the idiom.

tchrist

Perhaps.

Cerberus

Follow on foot = happen.

tchrist

I don’t know a non-literal “seguir en pie" but I could imagine it.

Seguir is just a common verb.

Cerberus

1:16 AM

tchrist

I hate text messages.

Cerberus

Hey, that looks like "pourquoi".

tchrist

I think it’s a typo.

Cerberus

For what?

tchrist

Sure it’s happening. Did you doubt it?

Cerberus

1:18 AM

Not "why"?

tchrist

"acaso lo dudabas"

Cerberus

Oh, acaso, what does that mean?

tchrist

In case.

Perhaps.

Just in case.

Stuff like that.

Cerberus

tchrist

"l dudbas" must be "lo dudabas".

Cerberus

1:19 AM

Yeah.

tchrist

I hate people like that.

Cerberus

I always use full sentences.

tchrist

As do I.

And completely spelt-out words.

Cerberus

Except when I abbreviate something with dots.

tchrist

I don’t abbreviate.

Cerberus

1:20 AM

I something abbreviate something when I have to abbreviate the same word all the time and it would save a lot of time and space to a. it.

Especially when I have to type it on a small touch screen.

tchrist

> What time does your flight get into MKE?

Cerberus

That sucks.

tchrist

Although I suppose that’s ok as an airport code.

I’d kick somebody who wrote ORD to mean Chicago in general.

Cerberus

You should only abbreviate when your convenience greatly surpasses your reader's inconvenience.

6

In absolute values, of course.

tchrist

Sometimes proper names that are understood with antecedents can take single-letters, although I don’t do that myself.

Cerberus

1:22 AM

Such as when?

But that is why I don't like US and UK.

tchrist

> Say Larry and Gloria at church, so we’re going over to L&G’s afterwards; wanna come with?

Cerberus

Ugh.

tchrist

"their place" works fine.

Cerberus

Oh, I only got that one the second time I read it.

tchrist

Look at all the seguir

Cerberus

1:23 AM

My mind just isn't wired for abbreviations.

tchrist

Something like that.

Cerberus

Por favor, parce mihi!

tchrist

It takes me a very long time to understand them.

Cerberus

So can we please get rid of US and UK?

And EU?

And NL?

tchrist

I never used "UK" until going there.

It was just the States or England.

Cerberus

1:24 AM

At least NL is not that common (yet).

tchrist

And the pissed off Scots.

Cerberus

Then say Britain.

Even the staunchest independentists cannot deny being on the island.

tchrist

Unless we’re doing geography, Britain always sounds borderline pretentious compared with England.

Cerberus

Kind of, so just use England.

tchrist

Me you do not need to convince.

Cerberus

1:26 AM

We have it easy here.

tchrist

Where is “here”? AMS?

Cerberus

Nobody cares if you say Holland, and Nederland is short and untainted by modern fads or whatever.

tchrist

God that’s ugly.

Cerberus

It says that on luggage labels only.

tchrist

> Ir en busca de alguien o algo; dirigirse, caminar hacia él o ello.

There is a neuter or two. :)

Luggage is encoded, yes.

Only Spanish retained a triple set of descendants from ille/illa/illum. The rest lost the third one.

SmokeDetector

1:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating characters in answer: Is there a word that means "to hate beauty"? by sibibidf on english.stackexchange.com

tchrist

2:02 AM

I separately saved two very small lives today. Have you ever held a hummingbird in your hand? So tiny, so delicate. Like butterflies. Male and female.

Jolenealaska

2:32 AM

Does a finch count??

How about a bluejay perched on your finger?

That one was cool because I was swapping emails with Richard Bach at the time (Johnathon Livingston Seagull)

My cat was really pissed off.

tchrist

The hummingbird is the most fearless of all birds. Hence Huitzilopochtli.

Jolenealaska

Jeez...I fell asleep on my keyboard.

damn!

I thought I was waking up to el bizarro fireworks.

I dunno...I've known many hummingbirds.

That bluejay had a set of brass ones.

He looked at me, he looked at the cat....

Me with the finger outstretched.

OK, but please don't feed me to the cat.

Sleep!

G'night!

Jolenealaska

3:23 AM

I just caught that. :)

Johan Larsson

6:41 AM

@Rob ordered 22 books now, English Authors in English.

Anthony

Hello?

SmokeDetector

7:10 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Nested quote blocks in body: Using the phrase 'a number of' with countable/uncountable nouns and verbs in singular/plural by Hoyt Volker on english.stackexchange.com

Johan Larsson

8:53 AM

@Cerberus What unit?

TRiG

9:27 AM

Do something outrageous:

+1 it is very common. Sometimes people will have a book or some papers, or be reading on a phone. Sometimes they're just eating. If you take a photo of your meal, staff might think you're a food blogger and give you free desert :-). But seriously, in a mega-city like London, no-one looks at you, ever unless you do something outrageous like commit murder or stand on the wrong side of an escalator. You could walk down the street dressed as a chicken and people wouldn't look twice. I'm not exaggerating. — user568458 yesterday

Robusto

10:04 AM

@JohanLarsson Is this some kind of anthology collection, or did you order them individually?

Johan Larsson

Individual items, was reading a thread in a literature forum and ordered a bunch of classics that I have not read.

Robusto

0

Q: Can i get down any stopge in case any work, and in the same day can we cacth same roat train in the same day

Im sunil I want to go To BHC on 12th june But I book the Tiket Till hwh, But i want to get down in BBS bcz Of Some Work im haveing, can i bord any train till BHC In the Same Ticket & in the same day.??? Plz Ans

indian-railways

I'm surprised we haven't got this guy on EL&U yet.

Johan Larsson

:) ty sir

TRiG

@Robusto Comments were helpful and constructive, at least.

Johan Larsson

If pun mode the English stuff could turn out unread litter

Robusto

10:10 AM

What is "same roat train"?

Johan Larsson

litteratur in Swedish btw

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Well, you'd have to put in a hyphen: litter-ature, or people would not pick up on your intention.

Johan Larsson

yeah

Robusto

Hyphen or some other way of setting up the joke.

Johan Larsson

It would be very lame either way.

Robusto

10:12 AM

Hence not worth the trouble.

Johan Larsson

Are you ordering The Elementary Particles?

Robusto

I haven't yet. It's on my list. I have a number of books to read, and am in the middle of one right now.

Johan Larsson

And do you think I should nag with a higher frequency?

Robusto

My reading slows down in the summertime.

No, nagging doesn't help. It just makes me dig my heels in.

Johan Larsson

The opposite for me, the beach is where I read the most.

And hammocks

^ not what I mean with hammock, ^only looks good but crappy to use ime.

^ nice summer reading device

highly recommended, the ultimate thing for lazy days.

Johan Larsson

10:57 AM

@Rob have you tried one?

Robusto

11:28 AM

@JohanLarsson A hammock? Yeah. They suck for your back.

The other thing, whatever it is, I haven't tried. I don't like to read outdoors unless there aren't any bugs.

Johan Larsson

The other thing is a hammock in Swedish. Hammock and hängmatta.

Hängmatta is only useful in ads for resorts. Completely useless in practice.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Did you mean the other thing is a hammock in Swedish or a hängmatta? I'm talking about that padded bench with an awning (or canopy).

Johan Larsson

The orange is hängmatta (hang-rug)

Robusto

What is the bottom picture? That's what I meant by "that other thing."

Johan Larsson

hammock

Robusto

11:39 AM

So they're both hammocks?

Johan Larsson

In your language perhaps

Robusto

So the bottom one is a hammock in Swedish, and not the top.

Johan Larsson

correct

Robusto

Different languages are confusing.

Johan Larsson

what is the origin of hammock, does it sound french or german?

Robusto

11:43 AM

> type of hanging bed, 1650s, alteration of hamack, hamaca (1550s), from Spanish hamaca, from Arawakan (Haiti) word apparently meaning "fish nets" (compare Yukuna hamaca, Taino amaca). The forms of the word in Dutch (hangmat) and German (Hangmatte) were altered by folk-etymology as if it meant "hang-mat."

Etymonline: hammock

Johan Larsson

so mat is a word

Robusto

I think that alteration obtains in Swedish as well.

Yes, a mat is a kind of rug, usually.

Johan Larsson

If you find a true hammock<?> try it!

What is the correct punctutaion here <?>?

Robusto

> If you find a true hammock, try it!

Johan Larsson

ok, felt like it could be semicolon or dash or something fancy

Robusto

11:55 AM

It could be, but I don't recommend it.

Anything but a comma there would draw attention to itself as affectation.

Johan Larsson

tchrist's rule applies then.

Robusto

I didn't know that he made the rule.

So what is your point, then? That a writer should only prefer phrases that are more frequently encountered? What a boring language we would have if that were true. — Robusto 7 secs ago

Johan Larsson

It is something like: Failing trying to look fancy looks much dumber than too simple|plain.

I starred, lemme find the original

didn't find it

Dec 10 '14 at 22:55, by tchrist

It sounds a whole lot dumber saying whom when who is called for then saying who when whom is called for.

finally

Robusto

12:21 PM

Well, that's not really the same thing, is it?

Johan Larsson

to me it is tchrist's rule

Robusto

But the scope of his "rule" is limited to use of whom.

Johan Larsson

depending on how you read it

I read it as just an example

Robusto

OK.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson It's not a rule, it's his reflection on how things sound to him (but I agree with his perception)

Johan Larsson

12:24 PM

I't applies to the original language discussion also. Buying books in original language to be fancy, the sit there wearing beret and suffer instead of a nice lazy time with a good book.

@tchrist it is a rule right?

Mitch

If you're trying to read Anna Karenina in translation, it's already not a nice lazy time.

Robusto

I disagree that it is a "rule" in the sense of a stricture that can be somehow enforced, but I think he's right about his perception. Nothing looks dumber (to people who can tell the difference) than someone who pretends to more expertise than he has.

I'm thinking especially of people who use a word like appraised when they mean apprised: "He appraised [sic] me of the situation."

I'm looking at you, Dennis Miller.

Mitch

What if he had been appraised, with respect to the situation?

Robusto

Then he should have said that.

Feeling lazy today. I should get on my bike before I fuck off completely.

One more degree should do it.

Mitch

He should have said a lot of things. He was in a place to know. Thescandals that could have been averted/

Robusto

12:37 PM

♫ don't wear sandals / try to avoid scandals ♪

Mitch

also, glass... avoid walking on glass.

Robusto

Subterranean Homesick Blues

►

Mitch

@Robusto you should go now before it gets much hotter. how long do you ride for?

Robusto

Today probably an hour.

Google Instant with Bob Dylan

►

This is kind of fun.

HarryCBurn

Hullo!

Mitch

12:43 PM

hey

HarryCBurn

How are you?

Mitch

@Robusto it showed the video then right in the middle it said: "This video contains content from SME, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

wow that was quick

@HarryCBurn Fine. Considering.

Considering that absolutely nothing terrible is going on.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto not available here

Robusto

@Mitch Part of a playlist. Next part was what got shitcanned.

24 hours ago, by Robusto

And I'm off again, at exactly the same temp.

Mitch

@Robusto Oh.

HarryCBurn

1:03 PM

@Mitch Great!

Cerberus

2:00 PM

@JohanLarsson Hmm you could measure convenience in time saved, or energy saved...

Johan Larsson

nice :)

J then

Cerberus

Yes, why not!

Johan Larsson

Kerb's rule then.

Robusto

Slow pace today. Only did the 16.6 miles, and time was 1:02:56. Three minutes slower than yesterday. No gas today, just tired.

That's what I get for sprinting yesterday. Slow and steady, as the saying goes . . .

Cerberus

Umm that is still pretty fast!

Johan Larsson

2:07 PM

I'm an over-abbreviator.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson So be it!

RU?

Robusto

@Cerberus But I did it in under an hour yesterday!

Brave new world, and all that.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus Yes, I lack empathy.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson UR an ovr-abbrvtr?

Cerberus

Well, that is only 4% faster than today, isn't it? A mere change in wind speed or direction could do that.

@JohanLarsson St yrslf.

Johan Larsson

2:09 PM

gajs...

Robusto

@Cerberus Yeah. But yesterday was windier.

Johan Larsson

Stig Larsson om Kvalitet i SVTs Centrum 1998-12-07

►

Robusto

This is a day for fucking off. Me missus has a b'day anyway.

Johan Larsson

Another reason to learn Swedish

what does fuck off mean in context?

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Ain't gonna happen. I only learn languages that have worldwide currency. ^_^

@JohanLarsson It means indulge in idle pursuits.

Johan Larsson

2:11 PM

What is it called when the explanation is more difficult to understand than the explainee?

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Whoosh.

Johan Larsson

yeah, +1

Robusto

It means I'm not going to do anything useful today. Pursuit of idle pleasures.

Well, I guess I have to take that comment on languages and currency. I did study Old English, after all . . .

Johan Larsson

Maybe doublewhoosh?

Robusto

If whooshes were horses . . .

Johan Larsson

2:13 PM

I had an incident with the horse this weekend.

We were chilling and I let it eat some grass. Then it stepped inside the reins and got stuck for a moment.

Minor panic before the rein snapped. Could have gotten ugly.

Robusto

BTW, if you tell someone to fuck off, it's pretty hostile. I don't recommend it. But if you sa you're going to fuck off it can either mean you are going to leave the place you're currently in (usually quickly and with finality), or that you are going to indulge yourself in unproductive pursuits.

Johan Larsson

ok, never heard it used the third way before, maybe not so widespread

Robusto

@JohanLarsson That's the trouble with horses. They get spooked so damned easily. A coat on a fence can spook them if they didn't expect it.

Cerberus

@Robusto Yes, that was a very strange remark.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Not in Sweden, anyway. Here in the U.S. it is used a lot.

@Cerberus Intended as a joke originally. Then I took myself seriously for a few seconds . . .

Cerberus

2:16 PM

Never, ever do that!

Robusto

And I see I left out a word. Should have been "Well, I guess I have to take back that comment on languages and currency."

Cerberus

It's what Hitler did, you know.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto Yeah, and if grimskaftet happens to get stuck in your arm you will have to go and pick up the arm.

Cerberus

Huh, I didn't notice. I read back.

Robusto

@Cerberus Hitler drank coffee too! We should never drink coffee!

Cerberus

2:17 PM

So both my writing and reading faculties ignore missing words.

Indeed, I don't drink coffee.

Robusto

@Cerberus There's a certain symmetry to that.

Cerberus

Thank you.

Robusto

And . . . and Hitler was a vegan! Which is, in large part, why I enjoy meat whenever I have the craving for it.

Cerberus

Heh.

He was also a painter, though...

Johan Larsson

and alive

Cerberus

2:18 PM

And...short. <cough>

Robusto

I wonder how easy it was to be a vegan in Germany. I mean, I wonder if he ate pastry (how could he avoid it?) and whether that counted as "vegetarian" . . .

Apfelstrudel with whipped cream is hardly vegan fare.

And I realize I am conflating vegan and vegetarian and I don't care.

Johan Larsson

he made the rules

Robusto

And ruled the maids.

Johan Larsson

Man, you are almost unbearable on endorphines :)

Robusto

Speaking of Hitler, we watched American Sniper last night. I have to say it reminded me of nothing so much as that film Hitler was watching in Inglourious Basterds about the Nazi sniper. Both seemed to be propaganda pieces.

@JohanLarsson Indeed, endorphins are my drug of choice.

Johan Larsson

2:22 PM

unsurprising

Cerberus

@Robusto Both words are ugly anyway. They do not deserve our precision if they are imprecise themselves.

Robusto

Agreed.

Cerberus

@Robusto What does it propagandize?

Robusto

@Cerberus Which one?

Cerberus

American Sniper?

But you may explain the other film's propaganda too.

For I have seen neither.

Robusto

2:24 PM

It is a propaganda piece for the American right. Almost an apologia for our disastrous incursion into Iraq.

Cerberus

Ah, I see.

Robusto

The other is a bald-faced paean to National Socialism.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

So how does the former condone the invasion?

The intentions were probably partly noble...

Robusto

I could state it as a joke, I suppose: One is a bald-faced paean to fascism, and the other is from a film by Quentin Tarantino.

Cerberus

So Q. T. often tried to justify the American right or...?

Robusto

2:28 PM

@Cerberus It explains it away as action taken by the "sheep dogs" (those inclined to go to war in Iraq) to protect the "sheep" (regular Americans) from the "wolves" (the forces in Iraq). Yes, it uses those terms. And no, it doesn't seem to notice that nobody in Iraq, least of all Saddam Hussein, was responsible for 9/11.

@Cerberus No. He was lampooning the Nazis and their propaganda.

Cerberus

@Robusto Wow, and this is about the invasion itself, not about maintaining order and protecting American troops during the ensuing civil war?

@Robusto Ahh OK.

Robusto

@Cerberus It covers the first four years of the conflict.

Cerberus

But does the rhetoric you mentioned pertain to why and how Washington sent its armies to conquer Iraq, or to the situation afterwards, or both? I mean, I can imagine you want to protect your troops once they're there, even if they came for the wrong reason; but I cannot imagine condoning the invasion itself as a way of protecting Americans.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto endorphines | endorphins ?

Robusto

Endorphins

Endorphins ("endogenous morphine") are endogenous opioid inhibitory neuropeptides. They are produced by the central nervous system and pituitary gland. The term implies a pharmacological activity (analogous to the activity of the corticosteroid category of biochemicals) as opposed to a specific chemical formulation. It consists of two parts: endo- and -orphin; these are short forms of the words endogenous and morphine, intended to mean "a morphine-like substance originating from within the body". The class of endorphin compounds includes α-endorphin, β-endorphin, γ-endorphin, α-neo-endorphin, and...

Johan Larsson

2:38 PM

ty

LMGTFY

interactive-googler

or ngramFY

good call

why is the e dropped?

I think it makes sesne

Robusto

Because English.

Johan Larsson

2:47 PM

Single word request:
In swedish: momentana krafter.
In English: ?? forces.

Momentana means right now.

momentary feels wrong

current perhaps

crl

^ agreed

Johan Larsson

yeah 'current forces' is right.

@Robusto One nice thing with reading outdoors is that naps does not happen as frequently as when reading in bed.

but then I have no idea about what your bug situation is like

Johan Larsson

3:14 PM

Mitch's rule: There is a joke for everything, some great some lame. :)

Mitch

A guy walks into a bar. He says 'Ow'.

They say that puns are the most detestable form of humor.

Poop is on that list somewhere near the top.

So I was at a college graduation yesterday.

The commencement address was by some poet. Said all the good stuff (touching the stars, don't forget all the people who help you bal bla bla).

But there was this woman sitting next to me... Who was really into the speech. She would audibly say 'amen' to some lame thing the speaker said. Or actually laugh out loud

... At some barely a joke.

Anyway it was a reasonable speech, we all warmly clapped at the end. And we sat down to get on to the next event in the program. And this woman turns to me and make gesture with her fingers over my forearm: "here's some star dust, pass it on".

All I could think was "goddamit, what is she thinking? That shit'll never come out."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:33 PM

You should have spit on her, then said "we are all star stuff. Have a bit more."

Mitch

I know!

Why are people so weird?!!!

Johan Larsson

@Mitch poop > pun

weird > pc

I met a weird lady last week.

My parents live in a place for old people. One night when we were watching TV with dad a woman opened the door. She had a doll that was some kind of duck and she spoke more to the doll than to us during the visit. She referred to the duck as 'the girl'

Johan Larsson

4:24 PM

@Mitch Come out as in out of your body?

terdon

4:46 PM

@Mitch Ewww. Hard to believe such people exist outside movies.

Johan Larsson

4:59 PM

So, do you have a rule @terdon?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…