The Nineteenth Byte

Alex A.

12:03 AM

84 and 75 toward Fanatic on Stack Overflow and PPCG respectively. So close I can taste it.

PhiNotPi

I'm at 96 toward Fanatic on PPCG.

Alex A.

NICE

Better spend the next four days watching the site, refreshing the page every ten minutes

Martin Büttner

just in case

Alex A.

Better safe than sorry.

Martin Büttner

well, I'm off to bed... task for tomorrow: find the first of those divisors which satisfies a simple inequality (but keep the overall state consistent such that the thing can be reused). this must be the most effort I put into a single golf since the Prelude quine.

Alex A.

12:08 AM

:)

Good luck!

I miss MathJax.

3

TheNumberOne

12:35 AM

@PhiNotPi Sorry I was gone for so long. I let the game choose random names for me.

PhiNotPi

What was the context, again?

TheNumberOne

3 hours ago, by PhiNotPi

Are all of the names (like Spawn name and Flag name), the same?

Here's a replay of my latest run in the simulation. The code used is identical to the one used in my latest run outside of the simulation.

PhiNotPi

Well, I don't really know what to say.

I can't see the code or anything.

TheNumberOne

12:52 AM

I'm posting a question on arquade as we speak. Hopefully the developer will see it.

PhiNotPi

Is the developer active there?

TheNumberOne

yes

artch

146 1

screeps

PhiNotPi

1:08 AM

I feel that the strategies I've made in survival mode are going to be quite different than MMO mode.

TheNumberOne

Same.

PhiNotPi

For example, there will be expansion between multiple rooms. What happens when someone conquers my room?

I feel that it might be very hard for newcomers to defend against more developed "colonies"

TheNumberOne

The problem is that you can only get so much energy per room.

PhiNotPi

There will also be a whole ton of things that now need automation.

TheNumberOne

You should make a module for each type.

PhiNotPi

1:13 AM

It's more than just the number of types. You have to automate spawn creation, choosing which sources to use, etc.

The "meta-automation"

Hmmm... we can probably do some calculations based on energy usage, without needing many details... as in... each room has a fixed rate of energy production, various items have fixed costs to build, bot parts have a fixed cost and spawning rate, etc.

ASCIIThenANSI

Arrgh! I wanted to use the close/reopen review queues, and I need 1 more rep!

┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻ ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

And someone upvoted one of my questions. Thank you, anonymous internet person!

OK, this is a problem. I know I saw I had 504 rep, the upvote is still there, it even told me I had the privilege. And now it's suddenly gone.

PhiNotPi

Somebody un-upvoted one of your other questions, probably, bringing you back down.

ASCIIThenANSI

1:28 AM

And now suddenly someone upvoted one of my answers, giving me +10 rep.

Calvin's Hobbies

0

Q: Golf Your Language's Identicon

Identicons are small images of geometric patterns that represent the hash value of a string. Stack Exchange uses the identicons from Gravatar as each user's default avatar image. In this challenge, we will use the Gravatar identicons as well to generate some text to golf. Challenge This stack...

code-golf ascii-art

PhiNotPi

Is anyone else slightly disturbed by the fact that in the binary representation the 0s are meant to represent white but are actually darker than the 1s?

Calvin's Hobbies

It's not that weird

Or did I mean to link additive...w/e

BrainSteel

I was willing to accept it. It's the same thing, really :P

PhiNotPi

1:54 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies I think there's a few cases where the binary version doesn't exactly line up with the original (possible due to aliasing?). An example is Java which has some squiggly lines as some of the edges.

@TheNumberOne All of the sources in survival have 3000 energy regenerated every 300 ticks.

TheNumberOne

I know.

PhiNotPi

Which give the maximum energy production of a single source to be 10 energy/tick.

TheNumberOne

Which means that to have more than 5 work bot parts milking it is inefficient

PhiNotPi

A single body part takes 3 ticks to produce, so a single spawner with a single source must produce bots with an average cost of 30 energy per part in order to continuously spawn.

(not 100% sure on the 3 ticks/part)

A group of three spawners can thus create a single part ever tick, on average.

A single part being worth 100 hits, that is the absolute maximum damage rate per tick a 1-room colony could hypothetically withstand for a non-fleeting moment of time.

That particular limitation is based on the number of spawners.

I think 100 damage per tick is actually a really practical thing for an invading army to produce.

The only defense against that is to have a massive reserve army, but there are limitations on the size of the reserve army based on aging deaths.

TheNumberOne

2:09 AM

Your creeps did 120 damage per tick.

PhiNotPi

Yeah...

Calvin's Hobbies

@PhiNotPi I know, that's why the 300 allowance is there. I've changed it a bit to iron out some bumps

PhiNotPi

^ sounds good

So, I think there is reason to believe that it is very easy to overrun a single-room colony.

Do you know exactly how many ticks a creep lives?

I know it says 'about half an hour' somewhere.

TheNumberOne

If you built a bunch of walls and then maintained them with workers, you could absorb more energy.

30 min exactly

PhiNotPi

It's not tick-based?

TheNumberOne

2:15 AM

1800 ticks

tick = 1 s

PhiNotPi

I was thinking 1 tick is about 1 second.

TheNumberOne

... okay, 1800 ticks exactly

PhiNotPi

An 1800 tick lifespan allows for there to be a reserve army of 18000 hits for a single room. (1 body part produced per tick for the first 1800, after which they are formed and die at the same rate)

TheNumberOne

Ugh. It's going to take a lot of code just to check units are dead if units are given individual assignments.

Or you can just fill the room with walls.

PhiNotPi

I'm thinking that's going to be a popular strategy in MMO mode.

TheNumberOne

2:20 AM

Did they accept your application?

PhiNotPi

I've gotten no feedback.

Does that mean I was rejected?

(I don't know how long to wait for an answer)

TheNumberOne

I don't know. I didn't submit one.

PhiNotPi

Structures can be repaired at 20 hits per tick, but costing 2 energy.

So a single source, with all of its 10 energy / tick put towards that purpose, can repair 100 hits / tick of damage.

TheNumberOne

That can triple the damage absorbed.

You can also use healers that use 0 energy per hitpoint healed.

PhiNotPi

Ahh, I forgot about healers.

I'll have to figure out the damage rate each healer can cancel.

TheNumberOne

2:27 AM

180 hits / per tick / per source

PhiNotPi

Some of these defense methods are mutually exclusive.

TheNumberOne

Build a maze full of range towers.

PhiNotPi

And turn this into a game of tower defense?

TheNumberOne

:)

PhiNotPi

I'm kinda curious as to how complicated the "winner's" script is going to be.

TheNumberOne

2:37 AM

Probably quite simple.

Or a neural network hosted on a different server.

What do you think is the simplest way to track dead creeps?

PhiNotPi

Ummmm.....

I don't know enough of the details, to be honest. Can you still access the memory of dead creeps?

I assume not?

TheNumberOne

Game.creeps won't have access to the creep anymore.

PhiNotPi

Is the situation that you have a list of tasks, have assigned a specific task to that creep, but then you need to check if it's dead to reassign the task?

TheNumberOne

Something like that.

PhiNotPi

If you store a list of creeps in a Memory object, so that the list persists between turns, would you be able to access the creep that way?

TheNumberOne

2:46 AM

Maybe.

PhiNotPi

Let's assume not, for now. You could store a list of assigned tasks in an object, and then filter the list of existing creeps for that task (you would store a copy of the task in the creep's memory as well). If the list is empty, then the creep with that task has died and you should move the task to the "unassigned" list.

TheNumberOne

That should work. I think I'll create a module to do that for me.

How many modules do you have?

PhiNotPi

Just the one from the tutorial. I'm considering doing a complete rewrite, since my current organization method can't possibly sustain itself in the long run.

And, I actually don't even use that module.

TheNumberOne

I have 7 modules. I'm also doing a complete rewrite.

PhiNotPi

To have more modules?

TheNumberOne

2:53 AM

To make my code more modular.

PhiNotPi

Just use a lot of % everywhere. :)

Modular arithmetic.

Haha

What happened here?

A joke.

It's not a real joke until at least three messages get removed in the fallout.

TheNumberOne

2:58 AM

Another joke ^

@PhiNotPi It would be cool if we found an undocumented way to summon Keepers to do my bidding.

PhiNotPi

That would be cool.

I'm not sure how much documentation there is on Keepers, anyways.

0

Good, I'm not blind.

I guess there's this

There's probably a way to cheat an modify the Game objects, but hopefully they've closed off the easy ways.

Alex A.

3:36 AM

@BrainSteel I feel like that's probably how others felt yesterday while we were chatting.

Sp3000

3:57 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies Hmm, ActionScript seems a little messy

Not sure if it's because it's so pale

Alex A.

I'm pretty pale.

Perhaps I should learn ActionScript.

Sp3000

My programming experience started with ActionScript. It made Python look really fast

Alex A.

Haha

My programming experience started with VBA. I didn't understand what a string was.

New Meta Posts

5:44 AM

0

Q: Can we remove the old sandbox links?

At some point we decided to just have one global Sandbox. I think this is fine, I'm just concerned about all the links to old sandboxes that may confuse users, new and old alike. When I'm not logged in, and viewing the Sandbox, I can see about 7 "Related" questions that also look like sandboxes:...

discussion sandbox

Optimizer

7:39 AM

@MartinBüttner 137

Sp3000

7:51 AM

Just within double of CJam! pumps fists

randomra

brainfuck seemed complex so I tried Headsecks to get a simpler image, well nope:

Sp3000

8:10 AM

@randomra The simplest BF-derivative I found was Farm

Might still be a little tricky though, considering the verbosity

randomra

yay, only 45 degree slopes, and simple too

Sp3000

The record for simplest overall of the ones I searched was Inline, but unfortunately it's unimplemented

randomra

8:22 AM

was there ever a /// (slashes) answer in PPCG? I can't find one

Optimizer

@Sp3000 what is your technique ?

are you drawing the shapes in the code ?

Also, Martin claims that he can do sub 100. I will also try drawing the shapes logic in a few hours.

Sp3000

8:45 AM

Yeah I'm drawing the shapes with inequalities

Which was the idea I was referring to in our discussion hours ago, because triangles and such can be expressed as inequalities in x and y

@randomra Martin's definitely done a few in ///, I'd link but phone atm

Martin Büttner

9:04 AM

@randomra I have at least two

this one: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/45435/8478

and this one: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/45410/8478

randomra

I see, (it might worth adding the pronounced name for unsearchable languages)

like ><> and ///

Martin Büttner

hmm, true, although "slashes" is probably not so nice to search for either, but I can do that

randomra

there were like 45 matches for it, so not that much

Martin Büttner

9:21 AM

@Optimizer first pass, 92

it's still all very naive, so I feel like <75 should be possible

@Calvin'sHobbies you should probably encourage people to include the identicon in their post, not the rendered output. (so that people can see the challenge they had but without taking up so much space)

Sp3000

Nice Martin, now I don't need to try my approach :) (same sort of idea)

randomra

Martin/Optimizer would you mind writing a StickStack evaluator in CJam so people can check if they understand the rules/produce the correct number

I would guess it's under 15 chars :)

(I couldn't do it with no CJam experience...)

Martin Büttner

I'm on it

randomra

thanks

Martin Büttner

@randomra almost

ah wait, here's 13

randomra

9:37 AM

thanks, what the almost refers to?

Martin Büttner

"under 15"

randomra

I should find a similarly simple online interpreter for mainstream languages for the future...

hmm, S* doesn't put spaces between numbers as I expected

Martin Büttner

between numbers?

only if they are in an array

try ]S*

randomra

I see

cool

Martin Büttner

@Calvin'sHobbies also, the text areas in the snippet are 5 characters too narrow for me. would you mind making them a bit wider?

@Optimizer 81. I'm sure if you actually tried, you could easily go below 70.

Optimizer

9:48 AM

not with rle base

Martin Büttner

of course not. I'm sorry that I expected you to actually put some effort into this. :P

Optimizer

on a sunday morning ?

you bet not :P

Martin Büttner

are you fixing yours at least?

Optimizer

done

wow, C is sooo easy..

Martin Büttner

yep

Optimizer

9:55 AM

meh, you are doing shape drawing.

Martin Büttner

although CJam is really not that bad

@Optimizer of course I am :D

Optimizer

1 hour ago, by Optimizer

Also, Martin claims that he can do sub 100. I will also try drawing the shapes logic in a few hours.

Martin Büttner

I never claimed I was doing anything else :P

Optimizer

I thought you would be doing something more interesting :P

because mod

you let me down

Martin Büttner

:/

VisualMelon

9:57 AM

before I go nuts, does anyone happen to know how to do CAS on an ATMEGA644p with avr-gcc? (8bit AVR microcontroller)

Martin Büttner

I know some of these words

randomra

exactly the same thought ^

Sp3000

Woo beating C. Now for another break.

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 would you mind including your identicon?

Sp3000

It's just the one in the OP though, should I?

Martin Büttner

9:59 AM

oh, right

well in that case, it probably doesn't matter. but it's nice to see what an answer had to do when I'm looking at the answer.

Sp3000

k, I'll include it anyway then :)

Optimizer

Can anyone test my output for number of errors ?

Martin Büttner

why can't you?

Optimizer

it says bad input

always

and doesnt mark errors with X or report number of errors

Martin Büttner

it looks quite wrong anyway

the quadrants aren't mirrored but rotated

and yeah I also get 600 errors

Optimizer

10:07 AM

ohhh.. theyh are rotated...

I guess Jakube did not notice that :D

I'll fix it later

Sp3000

10:20 AM

My goal is still to somehow get within 2xCJam :D

Martin Büttner

which CJam answer? :P

hm, is there a 3 byte way to get either "00" or [0 0]?

(not on an empty stack)

Sp3000

Yours :P

Martin Büttner

I'm at 73 now

looking for one more byte, so my byte and error count are the same :D

Sp3000

Just got to take of 46 bytes then :D

Martin Büttner

you'd almost beat Optimizer then :D

Sp3000

10:34 AM

only 39 bytes to go :P

Martin Büttner

*ish

randomra

I have still no proof for the optimal Dungeon strategy. Maybe I will just ask for computing the result of the greedy algorithm... :/

not the most elegant solution though

Martin Büttner

what about the brute force algorithm?

for verification

randomra

I'm fairly certain the greedy is optimal but cant prove it

what should I use for the brute force algorithm exactly?

Martin Büttner

10:51 AM

at the very least, all orders of digits times all possible digging positions

that's O(n! n^n) I think

you should be able to test 5 or 6 digits with that

randomra

yeah but what that is good for? still not a proof

would be surprised if greedy would fail at that level

Sp3000

If it provides a counterexample it's proof for the contrary, at least

Martin Büttner

@randomra it's good for generating test cases

also what Sp3000 said

if it doesn't give a counter example that means it's worth pursuing a proof

randomra

I'm 95+% sure greedy is optimal

just hard to get a grab on a good property of the problem

even if I prove I can't expect that from the solvers

that's the main problem

and asking/doing O(n^n) solutions is not much fun

Sp3000

Do you have your greedy program up somewhere? I want to test a few things if that's okay

VisualMelon

11:01 AM

O(2^n^n) is the best complexity (cough domino circuits cough)

... that can't be right, I'm sure I worked this out...

randomra

@Sp3000 not a nice code: ideone.com/V8pqQv difference from specs: input contains number of zeros though those can't be used

dungeon d is a list of depths

Sp3000

11:28 AM

ty

Sp3000

11:50 AM

Hm... do we ever need to dig both left/right of the deepest tunnel? Intuitively I'm thinking no...

Martin Büttner

12:29 PM

hm, is there a shorter way to test x > 2 || x < 1/2 than 2mLz1>?

randomra

@Sp3000 You almost surely never need to. This assertion seems provable. Will try to prove later.

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner z( if only integers

Martin Büttner

nope

I also really need 0 or 1

not just truthy/falsy

Abdou Abdou

hello i want to know what makes this offtopic

Martin Büttner

12:44 PM

until two minutes ago, the lack of a winning criterion

wait

Abdou Abdou

is it shortest bytes ?

Martin Büttner

is this code golf or meta golf? do we need to write an optimal algorithm, and the score is the size of our code. or does the output not be optimal and the answer is scored on the size of the output?

Abdou Abdou

it is 2,y,+,x,+

Martin Büttner

yeah, I misunderstood that

Abdou Abdou

and the code should alway output shortest string

by simplifying it

then attribiting minimal operands

attributing*

no matter the speed

Martin Büttner

12:48 PM

in the challenge you say that the number of operations has priority over the total string length

Abdou Abdou

i think i misworded that :/

yes i must prioritise a criteria over another one

shortest bytes is added according to needss

it is not a must for me

if a string is longer than another one , but with less operations it is picked on

Martin Büttner

alright

and if there are two with the same number of operators, the shorter one is picked?

Abdou Abdou

no need for score

yes

Martin Büttner

well there is a need for a score to be on topic here

Abdou Abdou

i dont know how to settle one

Martin Büttner

12:53 PM

I'll try to reword it, and you let me know if that's what you want

what's the domain of x and y?

integers?

rationals?

Abdou Abdou

yes

Martin Büttner

reals? complex numbers?

Abdou Abdou

int

Martin Büttner

k

so / is integer division?

Abdou Abdou

well if it is the challege would get harder

Martin Büttner

12:55 PM

what does 4,3,/ evaluate to?

Abdou Abdou

let it be

1

Martin Büttner

k

Abdou Abdou

im afraid noone would take part

Martin Büttner

are the a to z any integers or positive integers?

@AbdouAbdou have a look and let me know if that's what you want

@AbdouAbdou I suggest you try the sandbox next time, so these things can be clarified before you post the actual question and it doesn't get closed right away.

New Sandboxed Posts

1:15 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Books on a shelf code-golf sorting I have some books and a bookshelf. I would like to put as many books on the shelf as possible but I have a rule. All dimensions of the books (height, width and depth) should form a non-decreasing sequence on the shelf. This means every books has to be at leas...

Sp3000

@NewSandboxedPosts Sounds like Book Stack Sort

randomra

1:39 PM

@Sp3000 Similar but algorithmically different. Although my question needs a bigO constrait too as the solution is very boring otherwise (e.g. check every permutation of every subset).

There are some ok algorithms for my problem so I will try to find a bigO which let's multiple of them viable.

PhiNotPi

2:02 PM

Has anyone else in here been playing Screeps?

I'm trying to give a single creep multiple roles, like so:

Game.spawns.Spawn1.createCreep([CARRY,WORK,CARRY,WORK,MOVE],'worker1',{roles:['mine','transport']});

But it's definitely not working.

TheNumberOne

It looks like it should work.

PhiNotPi

No errors are thrown, but creep.roles always appears to be undefined.

TheNumberOne

creep.memory.roles

PhiNotPi

Thanks.

I knew it was probably a simple mistake.

I just rewrote all my code.

Calvin's Hobbies

2:27 PM

@Sp3000 Yeah. Hopefully those are rare.

@MartinBüttner That's strange. For me they are about 5 characters too long. But sure. And I'll encourage the identicon

Doorknob

@PhiNotPi I've been meaning to. It looks interesting.

Abdou Abdou

@MartinBüttner thanks

PhiNotPi

It's basically a KOTH.

so PPCG should be able to win it

Martin Büttner

I'll check it out in 3 weeks ;)

PhiNotPi

when the "early preview" starts?

BrainSteel

2:40 PM

@PhiNotPi I went through the tutorial of it, but haven't really done much with it. I'll probably give it a more thorough look after finals week :D

Martin Büttner

@PhiNotPi when I'm done with my exams

Calvin's Hobbies

@Optimizer Is it me or you you always seem to have issues with my stack snippets? :/

Optimizer

@Calvin'sHobbies dunno :/

BrainSteel

@Calvin'sHobbies Stack snippet works wonderfully for me. Down to 1099 errors in ~200 bytes >.>

I'm bad at this.

Calvin's Hobbies

Can we do this yet?

BrainSteel

2:52 PM

Why is this a duplicate of the sandbox?

Martin Büttner

@Calvin'sHobbies I wanted to wait until Monday, but I don't mind either way.

Optimizer

I think Ismael is living in 2014

standard transform won't work in many browsers :D

Calvin's Hobbies

3:16 PM

Can others see the sandbox links? Am I just going crazy?

Martin Büttner

@Calvin'sHobbies I think Doorknob is talking about SE's server-side caching.

Calvin's Hobbies

Oh, then I am going crazy..

to not think of that

Optimizer

I can't see any links mentioned

Martin Büttner

was just gonna say

they're gone now

Calvin's Hobbies

Well now I can't seem them. ok :P

@MartinBüttner Anyway, I have no scruples about nuking the list right now.

Boom

We can always rollback if absolutely necessary

Optimizer

3:35 PM

have we had 2d/3d terrain generation challenges ?

I know we've had at least 1

Calvin's Hobbies

19

Q: Parallel projected voxel terrain generator

Your job is to generate a heightmap and show it as a parallel projected, voxel landscape. The rules are the following: The (heightmap of the) landscape has to be randomly generated You also have to describe how the algorithm you are using works, so everyone can learn something new here You have...

popularity-contest graphical-output

That's more about drawing the terrain than generating it realistically I guess

Martin Büttner

there was also a challenge about diamond square

and rcrmn has one in the sandbox

@Calvin'sHobbies edited the search suggestions a bit, and CWed the entire thing

Optimizer

do you have link to rcrmn's sandbox one ?

I am thinking of something on terms of black and white generative terrain of some kind.

Calvin's Hobbies

@MartinBüttner Looks good. (My only gripe is that avatars don't show for CW.)

Optimizer

can CW question still not have non-CW answers ?

Martin Büttner

3:41 PM

@Optimizer If I convert every single one of them back manually.

So no.

Optimizer

and I don't see a benefit in making sandbox CW

Martin Büttner

@Optimizer then downvote the question and answer requesting it

the benefit is an edit threshold of 100

and proposals not counting towards the discussion tag badge

Optimizer

but now that the list is gone, there is no need to edit it again and again

Martin Büttner

@Calvin'sHobbies ideally your feedback for a proposal should not depend on who posted it, I think. ;)

@Optimizer the answers.

Calvin's Hobbies

@MartinBüttner Yeah yeah

Optimizer

3:43 PM

oh. you can answer CW questions only if you have 100 rep ?

how is that a benefit .. ? New users would not be able to use sandbox...

Martin Büttner

no

you can edit CW answers with 100 rep

Optimizer

and probably you can comment before that, right ? (let me check the rep guide)

ok. comment is 50

Calvin's Hobbies

@Optimizer This on a very basic scale would be neat: freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/models/m_landsp.htm

Optimizer

@Calvin'sHobbies nice!. For my challenge, I was thinking a different theme. This planet one can serve as a separate challenge all together. Feel free to post it if you want.

Or I can too, if you don't want :P

Calvin's Hobbies

Go ahead if you want, I'm not planning something for it

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