The Whiteboard

user15026

5:00 PM

@RobertHarvey SIT tones?

In telephony, a special information tone (SIT) is an in-band international standard signal consisting of three rising tones indicating a call has failed. It usually precedes a recorded announcement describing the problem. Because the SIT is well known in many countries, callers can understand their call failed even though they do not understand the language of the recorded announcement (e.g., when calling internationally) instead of assuming the recording is voicemail or some other intended function. Like a dial tone or busy signal, the SIT is an in-band signal intended both to be heard by the...

enderland

@AshleyNunn when you call a dead phone number

Robert Harvey

@AshleyNunn Some automated dialers hear the tones, conclude that the phone number is no longer in service, and automatically remove it from their phone number list. The telemarketers never know what happened.

user15026

@RobertHarvey Oh, that's very smart.

Robert Harvey

It's the only way to get them to stop. They're like spammers: engaging them only confirms that your telephone number is good.

user15026

5:05 PM

Makes perfect sense to me

durron597

@RobertHarvey That is awesome.

enderland

@RobertHarvey I had good luck once asking for their supervisor, so I could tell them they were violating the law

come to think of it, after I did that I've gotten a lot fewer lol

durron597

Did you modify your answering message with directly software or did you just play the tone on your computer while the record button was pressed

Robert Harvey

I just stuck a pair of open-ear headphones over the phone mouthpiece, played the tones and then spoke my outgoing message.

It sounds just like what happens when you dial a non-existent number.

Some telemarketers have figured this out, and disabled the auto-removal from their dialers. The question I have for them is this: if I've gone to all the trouble to put tones on my system to rid myself of telemarketer calls, what makes you think I would ever buy anything from you?

enderland

I don't understand why the government doesn't shut down telemarketer industries

it would seem so easy

ALL of them have to offer some sort of product to buy

which immediately creates a trail

Robert Harvey

5:15 PM

You have to get a good number to call first. The Indian Microsoft Support people were so brazen about it, they actually gave me a working number so I could call them back. I gave the number to Microsoft.

enderland

But I mean to buy their product(s) you have to talk with someone eventually

Robert Harvey

I think most of them expect you to close over the phone.

Or at least set up an appointment (in the case of the solar people).

enderland

That's all the gov would need to get a solid trace though

Robert Harvey

Yeah, but they have to get called first.

If they do give you a working number, they won't do the whole spiel over the phone. They make it sound very legitimate if you call them.

The "we're the IRS and we're suing you" people don't even answer the phone. You have to leave a message.

enderland

It's pretty easy to find numbers which are spammy, I expect many cell carriers have bunches of them that get sent back to them as a "this is always getting spam"

I know Republic Wireless lets you change your base phone number if it's on spam lists

Robert Harvey

5:19 PM

Caller ID can be spoofed. It's a difficult problem.

enderland

But you don't care about caller ID, if someone buys something there is going to be some sort of trail - even if electronic only

which will point to a real something eventually

Robert Harvey

True. But you still have to get called. The telemarketers won't do business with you if you try to call them directly.

Because they know you could be the cops.

enderland

I know, but what I was saying before is that a lot of large carriers have numbers returned because of spam calls

It wouldn't take too many of those to get a lot of "popular to be called" numbers

Robert Harvey

A honeypot, of sorts.

enderland

This just seems like it could be straightforward (I'm sure this is low on gov priority lists, though...)

durron597

5:24 PM

god I want my gold java badge so badly

enderland

@durron597 you want me to upvote it?

durron597

@enderland No, I want that question closed before more people answer it

feel free to upvote other answers of mine if you think they're good ;)

user15026

@GlenH7 Did you finish with the cover letter stuff (aka can I poke it to send soon)? I know you mentioned working on a bit more, but I wasn't sure if you'd gotten to it (no worries if not, I am just being a spider basket)

durron597

@AshleyNunn One of these:

@AshleyNunn Or one of these?

user41796

@AshleyNunn I haven't yet. Work + kids + too many things moving at once. That said, courtesy of Robert's help, I just found a half hour to where I can put that together now.

user15026

5:34 PM

@GlenH7 No worries! I just mostly wanted to make sure that in my chaos right now I hadn't missed anything

user41796

Not yet, no. :-)

Robert Harvey

Anyone have any more close votes? programmers.stackexchange.com/q/280089/1204

user41796

Needs 1 more VTD

Ampt

@GlenH7 Care to put the nail in the coffin of this one? ;)

came up in the queue and I thought it was for sure an audit

user41796

@Ampt bitter, bitter irony there

user15026

5:38 PM

@Ampt oh, man :P

user41796

Times change

Ampt

I figured I would give you the chance to redeem yourself haha

user15026

Especially in the case of Programmers.

Ampt

yeah I saw the timestamp and put 2 and 2 together

(it's 3 by the way. Government's gotta take their cut.)

user41796

@Ampt That's raisin-able

Ampt

5:45 PM

@GlenH7 I see that you aren't taking this very seriously. This is a serious problem.

user114359

@GlenH7 I came across that one while searching training and did a double take when your name came up. I figured you were right: times change.

durron597

@Ampt Are you saying that dancing raisins are wild animals?

user15026

Are we back to raisins?

user114359

@GlenH7 and I see you cast the final VTC on your own question, ironic.

user41796

@Snowman And I remember when I wrote that one that I tried as hard as possible to make it constructive and within guidelines. Oh well, the lines moved.

user41796

5:46 PM

8 mins ago, by GlenH7

@Ampt bitter, bitter irony there

user114359

That was 2012, meh.

Duga

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it has been cross-posted to Programmers. — BoltClock ♦ 52 secs ago

Ampt

@enderland

1

Q: Adding a Short-Term Developer to a Rework of an Old Project

Background I work in the Language Resource Center on my campus. It's a relatively small lab, and our job is to help students, not code software. Being a Computer Science student, I took the initiative to start coding useful utilities to make our jobs as lab assistants easier. Recently, Google ...

possible candidate for TWP?

enderland

@Ampt thats awfully software dev specific

Ampt

it seems like the core question is "How do I let my boss and co-worker know politely that his help will only slow me down"

I think it would apply to any knowledge based job - if you're the only guy who's been building a house and someone says "Here, take this new guy who has no clue about building houses so you can work faster" it would probably slow you down

Thomas Owens

5:49 PM

@Ampt In some professions, adding more people can speed up the process. I don't think migration is good.

Ampt

ok, closed it is

enderland

@ThomasOwens right

Thomas Owens

Besides, it's too old to migrate anyway.

But it seems on-topic for me.

durron597

Should this be on progs? stackoverflow.com/questions/29854210/…

It's probably a dupe of a progs question (haven't looked)

enderland

@Ampt but if you had someone who was experienced in building houses, adding them might be a huge asset

Thomas Owens

5:49 PM

@durron597 Seems like it. But it is likely a duplicate.

enderland

because the domain knowledge in building houses is more easily transferable

Ampt

@enderland yes, but this question is about someone who isn't skilled in the new skill required

but i agree, in some professions that doens't apply

say, splitting wood

not much knowledge needed

or stapling papers or what have you

i just VTC

user114359

It is not simply the professional knowledge but also the domain knowledge. How much training does a person need to be productive on a project? That is the message behind Mythical Man Month once you get past the one-liner "adding more people to a late project makes it more late"

durron597

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it should really be on Programmers.SE, but it would be rapidly closed as a duplicate of this question — durron597 43 secs ago

@Duga JINX

Ampt

lol that was fast. must be slow over at SO

user114359

5:52 PM

@Duga you are so unoriginal

Ampt

noooo, we love you @Duga!

don't leave!

Thomas Owens

@durron597 Migrating a duplicate is a good thing sometimes, if it's a well written question.

It would lead more people to the answer.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Yeah, it's not very well written.

But I mean, hey, @RobertHarvey, if you want to migrate it, I'd support you

Ampt

I have a free VTC to use on it if you want to go that route

durron597

What you all think about puzzles tag? on topic? is it ever helpful? Example:

1

Q: Puzzle solving: Minimum number of steps to achieve a goal

I have been doing some programming contest problems, and I have noticed that many of them involve something along the lines of "get the minimum number of steps necessary to achieve a certain goal". Examples: Given the position of a knight and certain pawns in a chessboard, what is the minimum ...

learning algorithms puzzles

Robert Harvey

5:59 PM

That question is a bit broad, but seems otherwise solid.

Because that's what they decided to name it. I'm not in their head, but "Marshal" suggests creating an object; decode does not. The term is therefore more precise. "Common" doesn't sound like a very good metric for naming something. — Robert Harvey 7 mins ago

durron597

@RobertHarvey I don't have a problem with it, I'm thinking about just removing the learning tag, but I'm asking more generally about puzzles tag. Should it make it into stci? Or is it a good tag?

user114359

On a more general idea, I like the idea of puzzles as long as it does not duplicate Programming Puzzles and Code Golf. I.e. it is not a competition.

user114359

Discussing puzzles, algorithms, etc. is interesting. I think of "review my design for this project Euler program" which could be a puzzle in some cases.

durron597

@Snowman Oh sure, all competition puzzles questions are off topic and should be on code golf

I meant questions like that one

Robert Harvey

puzzles doesn't look like a very good tag to me. Who is going to come onto Programmers and follow or search "puzzles"?

durron597

6:06 PM

@RobertHarvey Yeah, I know, but I agree with @Snowman also. I'm conflicted, that's why I'm asking in chat

Ixrec

my first thought is it seems like a meta-tag; if a puzzles question is on-topic here, that's probably because it's a puzzle about algorithms or some other thing we already have a tag for

after skimming the puzzle questions for a minute I see 1) algorithms questions 2) career/education questions about puzzles asked at interviews 3) recommendations for puzzle books

though everything in 2) and 3) already has other tags nominated for STCI

user41796

@AshleyNunn - go have a look at the doc I shared with you

Robert Harvey

n Things you need to know about ${{ something }}

n Ways your ${{ this }} is ${{ that }}

n ${{ subject }} myths you need to stop believing

n reasons ${{ something }} is harder than you think.

n random facts about ${{ thing }} that you didn't know.

n secrets to a good ${{ whatever }}

This is the state of the art of the Internet, as of 2015.

Ampt

@RobertHarvey VTC AS OFF TOPIC!

durron597

@Ixrec I think you should put all of that in a stci answer. I'll upvote it (or we can do the reverse, I'll post, you vote)

Ixrec

6:15 PM

will do

Robert Harvey

What is stci?

user15026

@RobertHarvey Pretty much, yes

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey Do you not read meta?

Ixrec

0

A: Structured Tag Cleanup Initiative Phase II Planning

puzzles This seems like a meta-tag. If a puzzles question is on-topic here, that's probably because it's a puzzle about algorithms or some other thing we already have a tag for. The tagged questions primarily consist of: puzzles about algorithms (often on-topic, but algorithms is a much bette...

Robert Harvey

Oh.

Looks more like stcipiip to me.

user15026

6:19 PM

@GlenH7 Taking a peek now :)

Ixrec

STCI is catchier

Robert Harvey

That's a tag? Dude! stci

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey Technically, it's STCI Phase II.

Ixrec

for some reason more than half the answers on that meta question are from me

user41796

@AshleyNunn It's a bit rough still, but that's the outline of what I was thinking for an over-the-top letter

Ixrec

6:19 PM

and I'm nowhere near active enough for that to make sense

user41796

I figured you could grab that and put it more in your voice

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, I can rock out with that, because you yanked together a lot of what we've talked about the past couple days.

Ixrec

also the front page might have a few too many STCI-related edits on it right now

user41796

I'd like to work more sci-fi references back into the body of the letter, but am drawing a few blanks

user15026

The hardest part will be pushing that submit button :P

Ampt

6:21 PM

@RobertHarvey STISADFKJVAEKTKAJSDVPASDGA Version 3.7

user41796

@AshleyNunn yes, that's always the hardest

Thomas Owens

@Ixrec And it hasn't even started yet.

user15026

@GlenH7 My plan is to edit the letter, push submit, then go tell the ducks.

Ampt

@AshleyNunn pushing submit is the scariest part, but once it's over, it's over right?

user15026

Then make brownies and cake. (For a family thing this weekend, but it's a nice reward anyhow)

user41796

6:22 PM

awesome

Ampt

just press it then pretend it didn't hapen

Ixrec

@ThomasOwens Is there an official start date? I'm still pretty confused as to how these things are supposed to be done

user15026

@Ampt Then it is someone else's monkey in their circus. :)

Ixrec

right now I'm just making 2-3 tag edits a day if I feel like it

user15026

@GlenH7 I love the first paragraph - you've grabbed my ridiculous nature well there. :)

Thomas Owens

6:23 PM

@Ixrec It's in the question part - May 1. But 2-3 tag edits per day is generally good. But some should wait until after I merge and request blacklisting / tag destruction.

user41796

@AshleyNunn yw

user41796

I really wanted to tie it in better with the borg numbering convention but couldn't make it work

Ixrec

@ThomasOwens Welp, I can't read. Thanks for clarifying.

user15026

@GlenH7 That's cool, it sounds good as it is. ANd it reminds me I can allow my voice to creep into things - I always make these things so stilted and formal, so I suspect some of my problem is that employers have no idea who I am and why I am so freaking awesome.

user41796

Yes, and I think the way to win with them is to be you

user15026

6:28 PM

Definitely. I am already looking at job apps different from stuff that's been said here. ANd as I get through the parachute book, I suspect I will learn even more. I can do this. I will be awesome.

user41796

@AshleyNunn Yes, yes indeed.

user15026

deep breath Alright, let's do this.

user41796

go for it

user41796

apropos of nothing - what's the "no redirect" syntax for an SE URL to see a migrated question on the source site?

Robert Harvey

?noredirect=1 at the end of the URL

Or something thereabouts.

user41796

6:35 PM

thanks! And yes, that appears to be the correct syntax

user15026

Damn, they have a state selection drop down that is required

user15026

That's.....unfortunate.

user41796

province == state? :-)

user15026

Nope, just US states

Ampt

is whichever one of those territories you reside in an option?

boooooo

user15026

6:36 PM

Not sure what to do there.

Ampt

ok, new option: email them directly!

tell them you would love the chance to work with them but the form doesn't allow for canadian born stackers to apply!

exchangers?

what do we call ourselves now?

user15026

I mean I could just pick one at random, and then explain it later (because my Canadian postal code will show up)

Ampt

IMHO this is a golden opportunity to showcase your ability to see a problem and solve it

no machine will stop your quest to be the very best!

user15026

Well, they don't seem to have a restriction on the postcode box, because my Canadian post code isn't throwing an error.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Yeah, I'm trying to inch along my tag edits for learning, I hope I can have it closer to 200 by may 1 than 300

user15026

6:38 PM

and I can't just stick with the "select..." option.

user41796

@AshleyNunn You could file a bug report through: jobs@stackexchange.com

Thomas Owens

@durron597 Don't forget - if it's not a good question, don't edit it.

user15026

@GlenH7 I suspect it is not a bug, I suspect it is tied to the "Anywhere, United States" designation on the post.

user15026

Which makes sense, I am just sad at it.

user41796

@AshleyNunn Canada is close enough to Anywhere, US

Ampt

6:39 PM

Apply Anyway

user15026

@GlenH7 That was my thought too, but I don't know what to do about the box. My brain goes "pick the closest state to you" but I don't want to be a liar either :P

user114359

@durron597 Why inch along edits? Just do them.

user114359

22

A: Do we care about edit flooding? Should we be doing anything?

There are really two issues here Edits should be reasonably substantive -- trivial edits have all the negatives but almost none of the positives. For example, the 6 character guideline we use for suggested edits is a good starting point. You don't need to be too protective of the front page; re...

durron597

@Snowman Read the message I replied to

user41796

@AshleyNunn meh, I don't think they'll perceive you as a liar

durron597

6:41 PM

@GlenH7 @AshleyNunn Have you used the google docs chat feature?

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, if it gets to the talking to people parts, I will just be like "psh, I nkow that the form said x, but here are y reasons why you should pick me anyhow"

user41796

@durron597 Normally the folk I share docs with are editing at different times from me, so not yet, no

user41796

@AshleyNunn yeah

user114359

@durron597 Ah, I thought you were talking about editing tags on questions, not tag edits

user41796

I'd pick closest state or NY

Ixrec

6:42 PM

@Snowman Since you guys have already filled the home page with edits I'm taking the opportunity to do more than 2-3 edits since the spam can't get much worse

durron597

@Snowman Oh, I was... I must've misunderstood Thomas then.

user15026

@GlenH7 THat's my plan!

Ixrec

oh THAT kind of tag edit

durron597

@GlenH7 I ask because we can talk about the cover letter there more specifically without flooding this room with a one sided conversation

user41796

@durron597 I think the torpedo has been put into the bay and is about ready to be launched

user15026

6:44 PM

Oh, its launched.

2

Ampt

Has markup always applied to the star board?

user15026

pings off the walls

user41796

@Ampt No, that seems new

durron597

@AshleyNunn Oh, ok. Well good luck!

user15026

@Ampt I don't recall it, no

user41796

6:45 PM

@AshleyNunn congrats!

user15026

I don't expect to hear anything, but that was a fun adventure and I learned a lot.

user41796

@AshleyNunn I'd be disappointed if you don't hear anything

Ixrec

oh cool, there's an ancient learning question from Robert, answered by Eric Lippert

108

Q: On developing deep programming knowledge

Occasionally I see questions about edge cases and other weirdness on Stack Overflow that are easily answered by the likes of Jon Skeet and Eric Lippert, demonstrating a deep knowledge of the language and its many intricacies, like this one: You might think that in order to use a foreach loop,...

learning

unsure if worth flagging for lock

user15026

@GlenH7 I'd be a little, too, but at the same time, I am used to it.

user41796

Best not to get hopes up, you're right. OTOH, they seem to take the recruiting process seriously and pay appropriate respect to candidates

user15026

6:48 PM

@GlenH7 I figure I don't want to put all my eggs in this basket. Once I yell at ducks and make brownies and cake, I will go back to my regular application rigamarole

user41796

Good approach - more irons in the fire

user41796

Consider editing into your resume some of the numbers we chatted about yesterday. They'll help you stand out and get more callbacks

user41796

@Ixrec I'd leave it as is.

Ixrec

@GlenH7 I think I'm leaning the same way

user41796

Ignoring the OP and author of selected answer, it's a constructive question with several solid answers. It falls pretty well into the "good subjective" category

user15026

6:50 PM

@GlenH7 Yeah, I am totally going to do that :)

user15026

And I am going to take some of the cover letter lessons into account too :)

user41796

Good to hear.

user41796

I might move the supervisor experience to the top of the list for your qualification bullets

user41796

It's a strong one to lead with

enderland

I wonder if there has ever been a reputable and meaningful study to determine how cost effective outsourcing IT/tech support actually is

user15026

6:53 PM

@GlenH7 Really? Cool beans, thats an easy edit

user15026

(All edits are easy, because tex based resume~)

user41796

@AshleyNunn Yes, definitely

user41796

Resumes benefit from the primacy and recency principle

user41796

Meaning we remember better the first and last things that we see during a segment of time

user114359

I just came across books. Dare I say... burninate books?

user41796

6:54 PM

So I'll remember the front and tail of a resume better than I'll remember the middle

user15026

@GlenH7 That makes a large deal of sense

user41796

Tons of studies back it up as well

Thomas Owens

@Snowman Throw it in the meta. If there's a related one, add it to that answer.

user41796

It's also the premise behind the idea of "tell people what you're going to tell them; tell them; tell them what you just told them."

user41796

@ThomasOwens Pretty sure there's already an answer in the meta question as I think I commented on that one

user114359

6:55 PM

@AshleyNunn I was always taught in speech class that if you give a speech with three points of varying strength, order them 1 3 2. Start strong, finish slightly less strong, throw the rest in the middle.

Yannis Rizos

@Snowman Wouldn't bother with it, it's just a synonym.

user41796

@Snowman yep, same principle

user15026

@Snowman That's really good advice, I think.

user15026

Seriously, you guys have taught me so much this week.

Thomas Owens

@YannisRizos Actually, it looks like book redirects to books.

user15026

6:56 PM

I definitely owe you all cupcakes.

Thomas Owens

Both are awful.

Yannis Rizos

Hm, yes. And it seems it's already on meta: meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/a/7307/25936

user114359

@ThomasOwens and you already have an answer for it

Yannis Rizos

@Snowman BURN ALL THE BOOKS!

user41796

@AshleyNunn As I said earlier - that's my ulterior goal behind all of this help. :-)

user15026

6:58 PM

@GlenH7 I knew it.

user114359

just as long as they are bacon cupcakes

user41796

My vote is for Irish cupcakes

user15026

@GlenH7 The smitten kitchen ones?

user41796

Yep, of course

user41796

I need to make another batch of those in a few weeks

user15026

6:59 PM

@GlenH7 I need to make those when I can afford the bits.

user15026

Who knows, they could be my celebration cupcakes?

user41796

perfect

user114359

Should there be chess or should those questions be tagged algorithms instead?

user114359

Seems hit or miss if they are already tagged with both.

Yannis Rizos

I don't see how chess could be (widely) abused so... meh.

non-programmers

bad-programmer

user114359

7:04 PM

@YannisRizos you found me!

user15026

I just got a text message for a job, called the number, it just repeated a "wait for an agent" message, then I got a person (who couldn't understand me and I couldn't understand them) - turns out it was for one of those scammy energy companies that lie and lock you in at high prices.

user15026

Door-to-door crap. Do not want.

Yannis Rizos

@Snowman I wonder how these two sneaked in, given that programm(ing|ers?) is blacklisted for tags.

user114359

@AshleyNunn Back before cell phones and the do-not-call registry, I used to get in philosophical arguments with telemarketers about how they should be productive members of the economy. Same with door-to-door solicitors.

user114359

@YannisRizos Lots of old questions in those tags, maybe that was before blacklisting? I am not sure how that works.

Yannis Rizos

7:07 PM

Probably.

The blacklisting is regex based, so... no one is sure how it works.

user15026

@Snowman I approve.

durron597

Meh.

3

A: What is with people who answer questions that are known to be dupes?

As rlb notes, in general the majority of duplicates are found quickly enough that the window of opportunity for rep gaming is fairly small. So let's discount the people we want to stop, and instead look at what else this implementation might affect. If we punished time spent in answering questio...

user114359

7:26 PM

@durron597 I don't know about other sites, but is it really a problem around here? I doubt it.

Simon André Forsberg

in The 2nd Monitor, 6 mins ago, by Duga

@nhgrif fair enough. I guess the place for this is Programmers then? — Brad 30 secs ago

Ixrec

most of our dupes are off-topic questions duplicating other off-topic questions

user114359

@Ixrec I have noticed long chains of dupes until they end in one either open or off-topic for another reason.

durron597

7:41 PM

@Snowman I've been spending a lot of time on SO lately

Thomas Owens

Why don't more companies have process improvement roles?

user114359

@ThomasOwens because that role does not directly improve the bottom line

Thomas Owens

Jobs like this and this.

user114359

Do you really expect Corporate America to look beyond its collective nose?

Thomas Owens

@Snowman But it does.

user114359

7:44 PM

I agree, but it does not involve billable hours producing customer value or whatever buzzwords

user114359

I have fought this fight before, as have managers above me

Thomas Owens

If I have a team of people working to reduce cycle time or number of defects...

What if I can do with 5 engineers what it took 7 to do before? We can either (1) do more things or (2) get rid of people to reduce costs.

user114359

Yes, yes. Good points when discussing with people blessed with brains, but not PHBs.

Thomas Owens

So, here's another question: do more companies have this type of thing as a side role?

I do it about 15-20% now at my current job (there are 3-4 people who do it full time across all of engineering, not just software).

user114359

In my experience it is one or two senior level developers who do it in their spare time

user114359

7:46 PM

"spare time" being negative time, since they are already over hours, of course

Thomas Owens

Interesting. Is it something companies would advertise in job postings?

Some kind of desire for process improvement, continuous improvement, or the other appropriate buzzwords.

user114359

I have also done this role on a customer project where we snuck it in and proved it out that we can improve efficiency. Ask forgiveness, not permission.

user114359

Some companies "get it" and embrace it. From what I have seen and heard, most do not.

Thomas Owens

Considering that kind of my thing is my speciality, it makes me sad that my job opportunities are so limited

Not that I'm actively looking for a new job. I've reached out to companies if I've seen postings like those two to learn more.

I'm just disappointed in how little it actually happens.

user114359

Things to look for are "automation engineers" or "process engineers"

Thomas Owens

7:49 PM

The problem with process engineer is that biotech and chemical is big here and it means something very different to them.

I've never looked at automation engineer, though.

user114359

At one job I was 50/50 in a process engineer role and doing billable customer work, mostly fixing crap that our offshore team broke.

user114359

Narrow your search to IT, not engineering

Robert Harvey

D2D recovery... Best thing ever.

user114359

Automation engineer is different but related in that it helps improve processes, just one aspect of it.

Thomas Owens

I'm just venting a little. For the next two weeks, I'm doing major head-down coding on a project by myself. I hate it.

But it has to be done and I have the knowledge to do it.

I go back to normal job responsibilities in mid May, though.

user114359

7:52 PM

I am tired of the churn and burn of customer projects. From now on it is internal applications, true R&D, or process improvements.

Thomas Owens

I wouldn't mind tools. I want to write up a proposal to invent my own team: a Software Methods and Tools Team.

user114359

WTF I can't vote for my own answer even a community wiki?

user114359

0

A: Structured Tag Cleanup Initiative Phase II Planning

contests (9) I cleaned up this tag a bit, there were several questions either having nothing to do with contests or where they mentioned the word but the meat of the question was really about algorithms or something else. The remainder really are about programming contests, but mostly off-topic...

user114359

And meta at that, no rep anyway

Thomas Owens

Also, here's why process engineer is a terrible search here: "Process engineering focuses on the design, operation, control, and optimization of chemical, physical, and biological processes"

user114359

7:53 PM

Oh tools are nice too, I have done a bit of work there.

Thomas Owens

So I get job postings for all the biomed companies and manufacturing companies.

user114359

Speaking of tools, my work computer has been frozen for 25 minutes. Its clock still says 3:29. I can't close any programs or do anything. If I cold boot then by the time it boots, logs in, connects to the VPN, well, I'm working until 4:00...

Thomas Owens

Anyway, my ideal methods and tools team would be process improvement + internal tools development (plugins for COTS things, integrations, etc.)

It seems like they go hand-in-hand.

user114359

That's the stuff I love to do

Thomas Owens

And it's harder than it should be to get a full time job in it. It's always a side job.

user114359

7:57 PM

Not necessarily. While many companies (in my area, at least) don't do much in that area, some do: you just need to get the job internally. Existing employees can easily move into the job because they know the business, the products, customers, etc.

Thomas Owens

Yeah.

I'm really lucky to be where I am. I'm hoping to transition more and more into that area.

It's just disappointing that it takes a transition and the jobs don't just exist.

Oded

@MichaelT yeah, I took a look at the tag. But with only 10 questions (a large number of which are closed), it looks fixable...

Thomas Owens

@Oded Will you be doing some heavy burninating and blacklisting soon?

Oded

No plans at the moment (still dealing with profile page stuffs)

Thomas Owens

OK. Still need to sort through the tags anyway.

And make a nice list for whoever gets that task. It'll be a week or so before that happens.

And does that mean that Prog will get the new profile pages soon?

Oded

8:01 PM

@ThomasOwens that's a design backlog - not much devs can do.

Thomas Owens

Ah. Because I am so excited for that.

I want to see my reach and such.

Anyway, I'm out

Have a good weekend, everyone.

user114359

Same here, bye all

durron597

@ThomasOwens Take it easy

user55340

8:17 PM

@Oded it was a "oh, you closed something... Look at tags... Ick."

psr

@ThomasOwens Have 5 engineers work 16 hours/week overtime, fire other 2 and Thomas Owens, got it.

durron597

@MichaelT I added it to the stci post

enderland

@ThomasOwens that's more or less what my role is going to be....

@ThomasOwens part of the problem in advertising externally is that it often requires a fairly large domain knowledge of the current process, but a willingness to go to war against the system

that's hard to get externally

Look into stuff like "coaching" or consulting, that can sometimes be that sort of role

I know of at least one company which has a fairly profitable business in basically selling Agile and "good programming" to companies and having their people on site to help them get up and running with it

Robert Harvey

8:40 PM

Consultants. It seems hard to find really good ones.

user55340

@RobertHarvey they've already got contracts they are involved in.

Transcript for