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4:00 AM
Or when questions from months ago get upvoted randomly
 
Good point pal @NeuroFuzzy
 
And postulate the reasoning why it was upvoted
Like, why did they see that post about quasars?
How did they get there?
Did they go down a rabbit hole?
Was that a Google-indexed search?
 
@KyleKanos I find a lot of SE posts through Google
 
Me too and they're near the top :-)
Along with Wikipedia
 
lol part of it is that it would be really inconvient to try to find them on SE
Its not like there is a search engine
Or some other way of finding them
 
4:10 AM
Google + SE Network work pretty closely together
So it's not really of any surprise that SE network questions pop up in Google searches
 
Good lord
That's a heck of a hint!
 
It looks like an army of integrals marching across the page.
 
Yeah it does, doesn't it?
 
The army of integrals meets the navy of differential operators.
 
Lolol
 
4:15 AM
You get the marines.
The few the proud.
 
Okay, so I'm reading this book topics in algebra by herstein. he says finite groups which are not trivial do exist. What does that mean trivial in this context?
@KyleKanos what do you mean they work closely together?
 
@StanShunpike Don't know a thing about finite groups, sorry.
 
@StanShunpike Something akin to this, for instance
 
@StanShunpike In the probability, the denominator is needed for normalization purposes. If we choose the overall state and the constituent states to all be normalized, the denominator becomes 1 and we can omit it. It is still "there", but just equal to 1.
 
vzn
this is freakin amazing. dont understand this. use ipad. updated os recently. it seems to support a very large set of keyboard icons somehow! & they seem to work in chat! 😵 ← can you guys see that? (cant believe it wild dont know how it works)
 
4:31 AM
I see the smiley
 
I don't
 
I'm on a iOS
 
@0celo7 Right, I get the idea that the denominator has to be one so we can in effect not have to write it. I just don't get why we have the numerator and the denominator in the first place. What do the two quantities have to do with each other?
Presumably the top is the probability of ending up in xi
 
@StanShunpike So that probabilities are just fractions.
 
and the bottom is as you said the squared norm of phi
 
4:37 AM
@NeuroFuzzy
in Mathematics, 2 hours ago, by Thomas Andrews
One llama is gold and white, the other is blue and black.
 
@0celo7 Maybe I am confused because I assumed $|\langle \xi | \phi \rangle |^2$ had to be in [0,1].
Is that wrong?
@infinitesimal I saw that too. What does that mean?
 
It means the meme has gone viral @StanShunpike :-)
 
@infinitesimal Ah, that's about the dress again.
 
@DavidZ I thought that dress thing you posted was a joke. But they just mentioned it on Sportscenter lol.
 
4:42 AM
Omg it's a pandemic.
 
Amazing how information travels across different communites
@infinitesimal are you a math guy? I had a quick question I asked on Math SE chat but didn't get a response.
 
vzn
lol reminds me of that old movie "lawnmower man" with all the phones ringing at the end... =O
 
@vzn you mean the viral dress? why?
 
vzn
did you see the movie?
 
Nope lol, probably why I didn't understand the reference.
 
4:46 AM
Not really, it is best if you just post the question on the main site. You'll get an answer pretty quick. @StanShunpike
In detail too :-)
 
@infinitesimal Will do. It's tricky, because if you ask something to trivial it can get down voted. So I've been exploring what chat can be useful for
 
vzn
inf do you like number theory? think you mentioned zhang once?
 
Not really, his story is amazing though.
Truly inspirational.
 
Whose story?
 
Zhang's
 
vzn
4:58 AM
inf when you said "hardy is wrong" did you mean his assertion about doing significant math after 50?
 
@StanShunpike^
 
vzn
there were some more comments by chat regulars earlier on the topic of older mathematicians. an interesting essay cited. zhangs (recent) case is a counterpoint.
 
Yeah, I was part of that convo lol. I dunno what to think.
 
5:01 AM
I like the part about nobody talking to him at Princeton for two weeks.
 
vzn
its been asserted in physics also that big accomplishments tend to come young.
possibly other areas of science also.
 
Yeah, Netwon said he produced best when younger.
 
"Tend"
 
Each decade the brain loses 10,000km I think in wiring
It's got like 150,000 total
Each decade after 20 sorry.
after 20 years old
 
@vzn God Almighty, who is the Hardy of which you talk? What is his first name?
 
5:03 AM
Ramanujan's mentor
 
@vzn at which institute teaches that Hardy? Is his name Lucian (hope not).
 
Cambridge
 
vzn
hardy is an old (brilliant) number theorist lived in the early 20th century. wrote "mathematicians apology" a great book (free on internet)
 
I was reading about Einstein's net worth
and one of the biographical statements concluded: "Until this day, no one has surpassed what Einstein has contributed in the field of Science."
That makes it sound like Einstein was surpassed the moment this article was written lol
 
@vzn, @infinitesimal Aaaaa! I admire very much another Hardy, the author of Hardy's paradox. Indeed an extraordinarilly brilliant physicist.
 
vzn
5:11 AM
inf thinking of maybe writing a blog on the "youth vs science" topic. saw a very good essay on the topic once (would be miracle to find it again but might try some google jujitsu). it basically proposed that accomplishments in life match a sort of bell curve with most productive in midlife. "naturally". anyway you might find this interesting.
12 hours ago, by John Rennie
http://www.massey.ac.nz/~rmclachl/overthehill.html
^ published in chronicle of higher edu early 2000s
 
@Sofia to many (including me, 'God' simply does not exist
 
Thanks for sharing @vzn
 
@Danu Were you the one I was talking to about the music and Mazzola? Have you read any of his Topos of Music yet? When you do let me know! I can't understand it at all and want to know if it's any use for making music
 
vzn
re age in science alas some of this relates to a rather intense & arguably offhand(?) remark by einstein
> "A person who has not made his great contribution to science before the age of thirty will never do so."
 
Hardy said his greatest mathematical contribution was discovering Ramanujan.
 
vzn
5:19 AM
there is now quite a bit of study of this, & there seems to be a major inflection point on this. eg
BREAKTHROUGH SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES NO LONGER DOMINATED BY THE VERY YOUNG, STUDY FINDS / OSU research news. focuses on physics/ nobel prizes in particular.
 
That's cuz the very young all have ADD, due to our frantic culture.
 
LOL amen
 
vzn
if you asked me, hardy seemed at times almost to suffer from depression... his writing comes off like that at times. anyway his remark re ramanujan is self-effacing. ramanujan was brilliant but so was hardy. its one of the greatest math collaborations of all time.
 
This is age thing is highly debatable almost to the point of trolling.
There is no right or wrong answer.
 
vzn
modern day diversity culture (aka "politically correct") recognizes a new concept of "ageism" or "ageist"....
 
5:24 AM
Genetics and environment both play a role.
 
Hardy rated mathematicians on a scale of 1 to 100. I can't remember all the scores, but he gave Hilbert 80, himself like 20 and Ramanujan 100.
 
Hardy was from Oxford, right?
 
Cambridge, I think.
 
vzn
not sure if hardy ever rated other mathematicans as you say. have not heard that. wonder if you can cite it. other mathematicians might not rate him so low. not really sure the rating game is helpful to anyone anyway.
it reminds me of that old (classic) se ceo post on "gorillas vs sharks"
(saw an earlier similar debate on string theorist alpha vs beta males etc in this chat room re woit, lubos motl et al)
 
You're right @Jiminion :-)
 
5:35 AM
I think many people have one or two big insights to share. When they reveal them may depend on circumstances. Not many (but some) have many great ideas. After Einstein's Miraculous Year, he had another big win with GR, but not so much after that. He never really assimilated QM, and struggled with several tries at a unified field theory, which never worked out.
@vzn Erdos related the story. en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan
 
vzn
finding a zillion articles surveying age vs scientific productivity etc, amazing blog topic... & think found the one looking for! the google jujitsu is still strong :)
is math a young mans game / Ellenberg, Slate
 
Great work @vzn
 
vzn
(thx) ofc the fields medals are another factor in scientific ageism.
awarded only under 40. that was not at the exact request of Fields, but was a choice by the prize committee in interpreting his wishes honoring "young" mathematicians.
 
@SabreTooth 1) you didn't understand the meaning of my words. 2) I don't ask people in what they believe, so, your beliefs are your business. 3) In this site participate all the nations of the world, of all the possible religions, and everyone has to be fully respected. If you consider smart to throw in the face of people that you defy their beliefs, don't mix me.
 
vzn
J (thx for ref) you write the basic story of einsteins life as viewed "by the establishment". however, how would einstein view his own life? he was an iconoclast until the end. sometimes it paid off with recognition, other times (later) it meant decades of isolation & "wandering in the wilderness"
 
5:42 AM
Anyone around? @KyleKanos?
If I've been offered to be a coauthor on a paper -- one which my institute knows nothing about, and is not through a prof of my institute or collaboration of the same sort -- am I allowed to, and should I still put my affiliation as that institute and use that email ID?
I am unsure of how collaborations work
 
vzn
@Jiminion 2nd look that is a long pg on ramanujan & cant find the quote.
 
@Sofia did you find out how to use the "ignore. (everywhere)" opinion?
 
vzn
anyway his rating statement (if said) was probably half facetious.
 
@vzn about a third of the way down, just under the reference to Good Will Hunting.
 
@ManishEarth Definitely need to put your affiliation as whoever is paying your rent, so to speak.
 
vzn
5:46 AM
J oh ok sorry got mixed up searching other pg found it thx
 
If you click on any users avatar it is listed on the very bottom @Sofia
 
@vzn I think he'd view his life as frustrating in the later years, because he couldn't find what he was looking for.
 
@ChrisWhite That's why I made that meta! I'm much more consistent about offering the new users help now because I can simply link them to a detailed HOWTO :D
 
vzn
actually (that reminds me) there is a modern pseudonymous mathematican half-crank involved in the rating game himself. he had some very lively commentary on the last fields medal awards. etc. its a troll-like blog. check it out for fun/ laughs. actually all the hardcore math geeks here might get a kick out of it & find some goofy stuff. stop timothy gowers by "sowa"
 
@ChrisWhite Agreed. It's much more productive than drive-by VTC etc.
 
vzn
5:49 AM
sowa is highly politically incorrect, quite the cantankerous curmudgeon, notice what he says about the 1st female fields winner Mirzakhani.
 
@DanielSank As in?
@DanielSank I'm an undergrad, btw, and this isn't in my field
Physics undergrad, CS paper
(So technically I am paying my own rent :P)
But I sort of see what you mean
 
@ManishEarth Ah. That's an interesting question. I think you should just put the university at which you study. I am 99% sure that's the proper thing to do.
 
vzn
@Jiminion in this way he is somewhat similar to einstein. but young briliant geniuses probably often have this feeling in later life....
 
@DanielSank okay, thanks
 
vzn
ME whats the paper on? CS you say? what area? plz let us know when its posted :)
 
5:57 AM
It's an experience report for ICFP
For Servo
 
Ooooooh, acronyms! My favorite mystery.
 
(Servo's written in Rust, which is probably the least functional functional programming language, but the most functional amongst non-functional programming languages, depending on how you label it :P)
 
@ManishEarth: I've heard good things about Rust.
I hope it succeeds in its mission.
 
Yay!
(I work on both the browser and the language)
 
No kidding!
 
I've also heard that Rust backed off on some of its nicer originally planned concurrency features because the devs want to make sure it can be used for kernels (a.k.a. small runtime). Any comments there?
 
@DanielSank yes
Um. We used to have green thread support
But it turns out that green threads have lots of hidden costs that vary on the basis of the target. And other things.
 
AFAIK "green thread" is a buzz word with no meaning. A little help?
 
So they were removed. They exist in a separate library now, though IIRC that library's broken at the moment
@DanielSank M:N scheduling. You have M green threads being scheduled on top of N real threads
 
M>N?
 
6:02 AM
btw, I'm not a core team member, and wasn't so involved at that time, so I don't know the full details
M<>N
though M<N isn't so useful I guess
 
What does <> mean?
 
\neq
 
Oh, weird.
 
@Sofia you pretty severely misinterpreted what I said
 
@SabreTooth: Sofia's posts are occasionally somewhat surprisingly colorful.
 
6:08 AM
@DanielSank if you know this, then they should no longer be surprising.....
 
@DanielSank yes, I noticed
 
@Jiminion Touche.
Actually I take it back. No touche.
It occasionally hails in Southern California. It's still surprising when it happens.
 
semantics
 
@SabreTooth The best kind of antics.
 
6:35 AM
^ That was probably the cleverest thing I've ever said.
 
applauds
 
bows
@SabreTooth: What's up, dude?
 
the usual..
 
Cephalopod sandwiches?
 
nah
 
6:49 AM
@JohnRennie How does Lubos compare with Susskind? Just curious. Trying to learn whose who.
Like you mentioned Woit vs Lubos.
 
7:04 AM
@StanShunpike I was just doing laundry - people were talking about it in the elevator, people were walking by arguing about it, some guys were arguing from a window.
The blue/black thing
@infinitesimal ^
 
7:25 AM
@NeuroFuzzy Lol I said what's up to my friend from Jamaica and that was the first thing he asked me about. Demanded an answer. I said blue/black. He said gtfoh.
 
user54412
7:46 AM
@ManishEarth Your affiliation is like your address, but "Department of All Knowledge, University of Awesomeness" looks better than "Generic Street, Some City," and it's where you'd want related correspondence addressed anyway.
 
@StanShunpike Lol I won't be reading that in the next ~5-10 years. Topoi is VERY high level mathematics
 
user54412
(At least, I'd rather the angry emails about how terrible my papers are be directed to my work email than to my personal email ;)
 
@Danu Well, that explains why I am having trouble lol. I expected it would take 6 months to learn.
I guess I had no idea what I was getting into
 
8:02 AM
Yeah, category theory is quite the high-level thing.
 
8:14 AM
@Sofia I once did this, let me link it for you
2
A: Mass of empty AdS$_5$

DanuAs has been shown in this paper, pointed out by Matthew in the comments, the expression found is indeed correct and can be understood from a holographic point of view. I now reproduce the argument from relevant section (number 5) of the paper: It seems unusual from the gravitational point of ...

Note the messages at the beginning and end of the answer
Although @DavidZ did tell me later on I should not necessarily have made it a 'community wiki' because the points would've been rightfully mine. However, this gives a solution that you may like: Use community wiki, so nobody gets the points ;)
 
Is there such a thing as covariant integration?
Like I know there are covariant derivatives? But what about integrals?
 
@Sofia This doesn't really help: I did this one the one I just linked, and the commenter simply didn't reply. Often, people will not be active anymore
@StanShunpike Yes, one just needs to realize that $\mathrm{d}^n x$< which physicists usually write, is a tensor density and not a tensor, I think, and basically $\mathrm{d}^n x \sqrt{g}$ where $g=\text{det}g_{\mu\nu}$ does the job
Hi @JohnRennie
 
user54412
@JohnRennie !
 
MORE OF JOHN, MORE OF JOHN! :D
 
user54412
sign of having the wrong priorities in life: idling in a chat room to ambush anyone who enters
 
8:27 AM
@DanielSank Heh, you're adorable
 
@StanShunpike Susskind is one of the giants of modern theoretical physics, with a lifetime of achievements behind him. I'm not sure Motl agrees with some of his views on the landscape and anthropic principle, but I would guess both respect the other.
Heh :-)
I got a ping from Stan, that's why I'm here.
 
Thanks for replying. Yeah, I like Susskind and he seems like an infinite pool of information when I watched his lectures
 
But I'm currently supposed to be working so my posts will be a bit erratic.
 
I haven't yet read his papers but I hoped to soon. I gather he has been a big guy supporting the holographic principle
Hope*
 
@StanShunpike The only thing I would say about Susskind, and here you need to remember that my opinion is worth only as much (or less) than you pay for it ...
 
user54412
8:30 AM
astro-ph title of the day: Milking the spherical cow
 
... is that as scientists age they get increasingly interested in philosophy of science.
 
@Sofia I think there are a bunch of people (myself included) who read the entire transcript of the chat
 
I'm not sure some of Susskind's writings on the landscape and anthropic principle are as finely judged as his earlier work.
 
@JohnRennie hmmm...at first I thought that was a joke. I actually was skeptical at first but I like 't Hooft and he seemed to be a proponent too if I rememeber correctly
I mean it sounds philosophical but what in string theory isn't purely theoretical at the moment? Both math and philosophy have in common that neither is concrete so it didn't seem implauible when I looked at the rest of sorts of things string theory seems to want to propose
 
@ACuriousMind Is your GR really that bad compared to your QFT? :P
 
8:34 AM
@StanShunpike For those of us who ask "why" the anthropic principle is repellant because it tells us there is no answer to the question "why". But I have to concede that the AP currently appears to be the only sensible answer to lots of questions.
 
@JohnRennie I will need to read more about it to decide for myself. I take it the version of the AP your refer to is the one discussed between Susskind and Smolin?
Just learned this from a quick googling.
 
@StanShunpike I'm not sure what was discussed between Susskind and Smolin. I'm using term anthropic principle in a general sense to refer to all such arguments.
 
How is the anthropic principle relevant to physics or more in general science? That seems like philosophy.
@JohnRennie It's strange to me that philosophy shows up so much in the modern physics community. Its not like biologists philosophize.
 
@vzn Do you know who sowa is? I spent quite some time trying to find out
 
@Danu a cantankerous curmudgeon apparently...
 
8:50 AM
...from Poland
@JohnRennie To me, the AP is useful to make predictions; it's a very strong constraint. But it's nothing more than that
 
@Danu lol
 
user54412
@StanShunpike The anthropic principle may be philosophy, but it's only ever invoked when one starts asking philosophical questions.
 
user54412
Why are these values what they are?
 
user54412
Why is the universe this way?
 
@StanShunpike Totally insignificant in comparison, I think. Then again, Lenny Susskind is a pretty big name
 
8:52 AM
@ChrisWhite Are those questions the physics community feels it needs to answer?
 
@ChrisWhite I don't think so. I think it's never the answer to 'why', but it does allow one to tell approx. what the value is, and that it cannot be different by the AP
 
@Danu Poland lmfao
 
^He's actually from Poland though
 
Oh really? That's even funnier because I didnt know that.
 
@ChrisWhite At the risk of over simplifying, physics is about figuring out the differential equations that describe a system then solving them.
And to solve a DE requires initial conditions.
 
8:54 AM
@JohnRennie yes! That's how I feel
So what is philosophy doing here?
 
@JohnRennie I think Urs Schreiber would disagree!
 
The equations themselves are usually well motivated e.g. they stem from what seems an obvious Lagrangian
 
You only get local structure from differential equations
 
user54412
@StanShunpike For some physicists, yes. I personally can die happy without ever knowing why the electron/proton mass ratio is what it is.
 
and global (e.g. non-perturbative) things can be crucial
 
8:55 AM
But what determines the initial conditions is usually less obvious
 
The anthropic principle gives us an explanation for the initial conditions we see
 
@JohnRennie But I really don't think it's an explanation. It's a prediction, due to strong constraints, but it doesn't give a mechanism
 
Wher physicists argue about philosophy it's usually related to trying to explain initial conditions. Philosophy creeps in because there is no good physically motivated explanation.
 
user54412
@JohnRennie I agree mostly, but I feel things get dicey when one starts asking really fundamental questions.
 
8:57 AM
@ChrisWhite Agreed, and I'm not endorsing the practice. My own view is that these discussions are great in the bar late at night, but not so great when they appear on the Arxiv.
 
@Danu I kind of think you're cute too.
 
@DanielSank <3
 
user54412
I'll even take the arxiv, just so long as they don't appear in textbooks as irrefutable fact.
 
Also, I think there's a pretty good answer to be found re the annoying dress color question: Give it to a computer and have it tell you what color it is. lol
 
user54412
I'm probably still bitter about never having gotten a straight answer as to why inflation is necessary or even desirable. It always comes down to some sort of "initial conditions" argument that I find completely bogus.
 

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