Game Development

Alex M.

1:00 PM

banning gnomeslice was unnecessary

rolfl

Sure. I agree... and he was not banned

You assumed that.

Alex M.

he was, for 8 hours

I understand banning me because I was a source of hostility

but gnomeslice was the only one who did not participate directly in the arguments and in fact tried to stop the argument and make peace

even if, in his view, that meant opening a separate chatroom for offtopic discussions

rolfl

@AlexM. Actually, he was not.

Alex M.

@GnomeSlice you said you were, were you?

rolfl

@GnomeSlice - you there?

See, the thing is, Gnomeslice came close, but that was for opening up other chat rooms.

when he was asked not to.

Alex M.

1:04 PM

he must have been away for 2 hours now, Steam says that at least

afaik users can freely open up chatrooms

and if they're inappropriate, the chatrooms get closed

rolfl

Yes.

Alex M.

there's nothing about the users being suspended; and I hardly thing his chatroom was meant to be inappropriate

rolfl

You can freely open chat rooms, but all chat rooms must follow guidelines and nothing can be offensive

Alex M.

there wasn't anything of the sort there tbh

rolfl

Relocating the offensive material from here to another chat room is not a solution.

Alex M.

1:06 PM

you froze it after another mod gave approval mainly because this meant we'd not stop talking about offtopic stuff

rolfl

@AlexM. - you have to get it clear the difference between what is off topic, what you think is offensive, and what I think is offensive.

Alex M.

anything can offend anyone

rolfl

If I think it is offensive, or my daughter would, then you get suspended, and so on.

@AlexM. That is not true.

off-topic discussion is OK as long as it does not interfere with the purposes of this chat room, and SE in general.

offensive is never OK.

anywhere on SE

Alex M.

also Icy told you this many times but

there wasn't anything offensive in anything that started this whole thing?

like, you jump between offtopic and offensive as if they were interchangeable

rolfl

offensive is a subset of off-topic.

Alex M.

1:11 PM

I'd rather say offensive is a decorator of anything

you can be offensive while being ontopic

Kevin van der Velden

We could start talking about H-games, which would be on-topic but offensive (for some)

rolfl

What you have successfully accomplished, is dragging the attention of the entire moderator community, and SE CM's, etc. and shone a spotlight on this chat room, and the people in it.

Now you have to live with the consequences, because some of us have a fairly low tolerance for what we consider offensive.

Alex M.

what are the consequences though?

you sitting here all day?

rolfl

I am OK with that.

Alex M.

I'm not, you clearly don't belong here, as a member. I still find it disgusting that a bunch of strangers came by and re-made the room. You could have just frozen the room until either Josh or Noctrine had the time to talk to us.

rolfl

1:16 PM

You are under the mistaken impression that I don't belong here.

Alex M.

I think what you did was just an abuse of power, and you constantly mentioning your daughter kinda makes me thing you're trying to scale things according to your family

rolfl

Yes, so?

Alex M.

which, I dunno, gets in the way, especially in the way of the younger audience

Lasse

I can see this is getting nowhere

rolfl

ditto

Alex M.

1:17 PM

it certainly is

Lasse

Could you two get a room

BlueBug

I love you two both but yes ^

Alex M.

I'm out, this place reeks of shit now

rolfl

Works for me.

Alex M.

enjoy being ontopic or whatever lol

I hope it'll last

Lasse

1:19 PM

tbh I don't feel bad for alex leaving

rolfl

I kicked him

Lasse

lol, that actually makes it better

rolfl

Right, back to background mode

Lasse

there was this period when alex got butthurt from one of our arguments, and he didn't come in, and that was the period of politeness and happiness in my opinion

BlueBug

I feel bad. :( I want him in circle. Why should we fight? ^ yes but as good as politness, I think he does add much unique vibe that might not be so "polite" but yet otherwise chat.gamedev will lack.

Lasse

1:22 PM

yeah it's always bad to lose a valued member, especially when he can be helpful at times

also he's the only one organizing the jams and other events

well not the only one, but the guy who get things rolling

BlueBug

It really deeply saddens me, though I am not old member, to see this whole flame burning chat room.

Lasse

I'm new too, but it already feels like home here

BlueBug

I think it is safe to say Alex feels strongly because he's more involved in the community :(

Lasse

I guess so

Kevin van der Velden

IT'S ALIVE!!!

I.e. I fixed it so the console can always be rendered afterwards

Lasse

1:30 PM

any one of you ever implemented FPS camera?

I'm wondering what's wrong here

Kevin van der Velden

Can anyone recommend a good screen shot utillity for windows?

Lasse

printscreen

Kevin van der Velden

@Lasse some semi-crappy ones yeah

Lasse

and alt+printscreen

Kevin van der Velden

No I asked for good ones =p

user92578

1:31 PM

Gyazo?

user92578

idk, I just use printscreen and paste it to imgur

BlueBug

@AlexM. Hey dude I made room for us, stop by maybe?

Lasse

am I doing this right? I know where the camera is facing, and then I know which direction the player wants to travel in the world-space, but I need to transform that in the camera space

OH

could I just apply the camera matrix to the travel vector?

user92578

Lasse I'm actually trying to do the same thing :D

Lasse

float dot = Vector3.Dot (travelDirection, Camera.Default.Direction);
Vector3 cross = Vector3.Cross (travelDirection, Camera.Default.Direction);
travelDirection = Vector3.Transform (travelDirection, Matrix4.CreateFromAxisAngle (cross, dot));
travelDirection.Normalize ();

this didn't work perfectly

it's almost there but not quite

that rotates the travelDirection vector to align with the camera direction

or am I missing something

it works when I move up, down, left or right, but if I want to move forward it goes where ever it feels to

user92578

1:36 PM

Hmm, I tried Three.js today, tomowwor is either MonoGame or OpenTK

Kevin van der Velden

@Lasse what are you trying to do? Transform the "WASD" input vector so it's rotated to camera space?

Lasse

yes

exactly that

Kevin van der Velden

How are you storing your camera orientation? Euler angles, Matrix or something else?

Lasse

it's a normal pointing at somewhere

Kevin van der Velden

Aah

I'd personally store it in Euler angles (with an implict 0 pitch), that way I can do Matrix4.FromEulerAngles( yaw, 0, 0 ) * WASDvector

Lasse

1:43 PM

okay, I'll try that

opentk has no FromEulerAngles :(

need to add it

oh I can create quaternion from euler angles

or not..

Kevin van der Velden

Well, you can also do it from a Matrix4.FromXRotation (or, whichever, dunno exactly)

Lasse

I find this more fun :D

lol now it got inversed, front and back works but up, down, left and right are going weird

float c1 = (float)Math.Cos (Camera.Default.Orientation.Y / 2);
float c2 = (float)Math.Cos (Camera.Default.Orientation.X / 2);
float c3 = (float)Math.Cos (Camera.Default.Orientation.Z / 2);
float s1 = (float)Math.Sin (Camera.Default.Orientation.Y / 2);
float s2 = (float)Math.Sin (Camera.Default.Orientation.X / 2);
float s3 = (float)Math.Sin (Camera.Default.Orientation.Z / 2);

Quaternion q = new Quaternion ();

q.W = c1 * c2 * c3 - s1 * s2 * s3;
q.X = s1 * s2 * c3 + c1 * c2 * s3;
q.Y = s1 * c2 * c3 + c1 * s2 * s3;

oh it also travels only on a Y plane, when I look down it does not go down

Kevin van der Velden

2:05 PM

Than you probably just need to invert the yaw angle

Well yeah, it's an FPS camera =p

Lasse

if I invert yaw it looks right when I turn left

I'm not sure what you mean by that :P

Kevin van der Velden

@Lasse which bit? the FPS bit? you don't move up and down in a first person shooter, except via terrain

@Lasse I dunno then

Lasse

Yes I do in flying mode, it's the same camera basically if I understand it right, it just modifies the pitch

Kevin van der Velden

Well, basically what I do is store the yaw and the roll, and build seperate matrices with a FromRotation method go:

dir = input * rotationYaw
if ( isFlying ) dir = dir * rotationRoll

Disregard, it is pitch, not roll

Lasse

public void FPSMove(Vector3 travelVector)
{
	float c1 = (float)Math.Cos (Orientation.Y / 2);
	float c2 = (float)Math.Cos (0 / 2);
	float c3 = (float)Math.Cos (0 / 2);
	float s1 = (float)Math.Sin (Orientation.Y / 2);
	float s2 = (float)Math.Sin (0 / 2);
	float s3 = (float)Math.Sin (0 / 2);

	Quaternion q = new Quaternion ();

	q.W = c1 * c2 * c3 - s1 * s2 * s3;
	q.X = s1 * s2 * c3 + c1 * c2 * s3;
	q.Y = s1 * c2 * c3 + c1 * s2 * s3;
	q.Z = c1 * s2 * c3 - s1 * c2 * s3;

	travelVector = Vector3.Transform(travelVector, q);

This works very well, and I can actually live without it flying up / down, I can change the altitude by other means too

It'd just be nice extra feature :)

Kevin van der Velden

2:23 PM

Well I'd say that the up/down moving camera is a fundamentally different one from just an FPS camera

Also, I believe it's fairly standard to just store the matrix4 for orientation and not do tricky stuff with a normalized Vector3

Lasse

I'm just trying to make this easy to use

if (travelDirection != Vector3.Zero) {
	travelDirection.Normalize ();
	travelDirection = travelDirection * travelSpeed * (float)e.Time;
	Camera.Default.FPSMove (travelDirection);
}

I don't think it'll be much easier than this

Kevin van der Velden

@Lasse A good goal :)

@Lasse what is travelDirection? The WASD input? Yeah that should be a Vec3

Lasse

yes it's the wasd, including Y changes from space and shift

Kevin van der Velden

What the camera is internally storing should IMO be a Vec3 for position, and a Quaternion or something for orientation

Lasse

It's storing vec3 position and vec3 orientation

Kevin van der Velden

2:32 PM

Yeah, I don't think it'll be handy in the long run to have orientation be a Vec3, but time will tell =p

Also, I'm gonna go get some icecream, cause icecream is awesome and I want some

Lasse

the orientation is just euler angles now

instead of normal looking at somewhere

I included the roll, because you never know :)

GnomeSlice

@rolfl Can you please tell me why you banned me for 8 hours?

I wasn't even engaged in whatever fight you were having last night.

I'd also like to know why you froze and deleted the chatroom I made.

I'll be here or in The Bridge when you get back, and I'd like to have some answers, please.

MickLH

2:52 PM

@Lasse did you get it solved?

Lasse

Not the original problem, no, but I decided I can live with moving up/down with just space and shift

MickLH

I think trig is your most direct bet here, you can just take sines and cosines of your euler angles

lol, had to get out of bed, just to correct that

Lasse

:D

public void FPSMove(Vector3 travelVector)
{
	float c1 = (float)Math.Cos (Orientation.Y / 2);
	float c2 = (float)Math.Cos (0 / 2);
	float c3 = (float)Math.Cos (0 / 2);
	float s1 = (float)Math.Sin (Orientation.Y / 2);
	float s2 = (float)Math.Sin (0 / 2);
	float s3 = (float)Math.Sin (0 / 2);

	q.W = c1 * c2 * c3 - s1 * s2 * s3;
	q.X = s1 * s2 * c3 + c1 * c2 * s3;
	q.Y = s1 * c2 * c3 + c1 * s2 * s3;
	q.Z = c1 * s2 * c3 - s1 * c2 * s3;

	travelVector = Vector3.Transform(travelVector, q);

	Position += travelVector;

Out of those two, the fly version does not work as intended

MickLH

Dude

Dudeeeeeeeee seriously dude don't do that

Lasse

okay :(

then what

MickLH

2:56 PM

It's not a bad idea, it's just waaaay too much work

let me grab something from DirtyHacks.cpp :D

Lasse

well it's just once per frame

dirtyhacks.cpp ftw

MickLH

float cp = -cos(pitch*DEG);
dir = Vector3(sin(yaw*DEG)*cp,
             -sin(pitch*DEG),
              cos(yaw*DEG)*cp);

I have pitch and yaw in degrees

Lasse

okay

MickLH

You can remove the -sin(pitch*DEG), and the *cp parts to make a no-flying version

But my real intentions are to show you how simple the trig boils down

Lasse

And that is multiplied by the moving speed?

MickLH

3:01 PM

yes it results in a normal vector pointing walk direction

Lasse

that's what I thought

MickLH

Then when you want strafe direction, change yaw by 90 degrees and run the same calc

or if you want to get extra tricky, introduce more temporaries

Lasse

okay

MickLH

and apply trig identities

I don't think you have to call any more trig functions, just swap X and Z

idk didn't check that idea yet

I mean I know it works, but I need to analyse it and get my signs straight

Lasse

cool

thanks dude

MickLH

3:04 PM

np :]

Lasse

I need to leave, gotta get someone from airport

ttyl

MickLH

peace

GnomeSlice

3:17 PM

#gamedev indiedb.com/games/double-barrelled-blake-killem-vs-mars/…

user4704

3:35 PM

@BlueBug Nobody wants to prevent off-topic conversation entirely; a strictly on-topic chat room is slow and boring, and allowing some off-topic banter helps foster community.

user4704

The issue is how far the off-topic discussion can go. That's all.

BlueBug

#JoshPetrie I get a bit confused with what "far" means in the context. Is it generally about the topic itself or far in sense that the flow of conversation defeats the main purpose of game dev chat; someone wants to initiate gamedev related conversation/throws a question but then he/she gets buried?

user4704

No, it's more like: off-topic banter about games you are playing, a vacation you took, casual typical conversations you could have in the presence of your or somebody else's mother, et cetera, are all okay.

user4704

Off-topic conversations about "banging chicks," intolerant religious discussion, uninterrupted meme image posting, et cetera, are not okay.

user4704

And in general, off-topic conversation should always take a back seat to on-topic discussion.

user4704

3:42 PM

This doesn't mean you have to immediately cease all off-topic chat as soon as somebody asks a game development question, you should just be aware that that discussion is ongoing and not allow your off-topic conversation to overpower it.

BlueBug

I think conflict can happen because we don't have very clear-written rules to follow and people here are young minds like myself. Young people, we often have fragile ego so it is easy for us to feel cheated if we think we are being punished for what we don't fully understand / instructed previously. So IMO, what you just said can be filtered into set of boundries in which can help to promote this community.

user4704

It's hard to codify the guidelines for what is acceptable versus unacceptable off-topic discussion.

BlueBug

*set of boundries, I mean some written rules for people to follow, just like how it is on main gamedev website

user4704

That's why we have community moderation via flags.

user4704

It's hard to say that conversation here "must be civil" if we all cannot agree on what civil is.

user4704

3:47 PM

That starts to become a fairly large philosophical debate. :\

user4704

Similarly, there is the basic premise that this chat room is part of SE and users here are still bound by the rules, culture and goals of the network; there is some leeway for shaping the culture of a site and its chat room, but one does not have free reign to make anything one wants "acceptable" in the room.

BlueBug

@JoshPetrie rules don't need to be solidified, black and white. Rules can be flexible reflection of the community. We could open meta post about it and have people decided on what is acceptable and what not, then as well "fix" the "rules" if exceptions rise. In that case at least people will know what caused them to be "punished" and if they feel like cheated, angry, then they can resort to "rules" instead of "punishers"

user4704

That is another basic premise that we all have to agree on, or those who disagree just need to leave, because we have no common ground for discussion.

user4704

@BlueBug rolfl's pinned comments spell it out fairly well, I think.

rolfl

Hey all

user4704

3:52 PM

How did you do that, I didn't even ping you?

rolfl

I have been lurking

Kevin van der Velden

Mod magic

@rolfl mod magic is a far more fun and mysterious explanation!

MickLH

@rolfl a few people have :)

rolfl

@KevinvanderVelden yeah ... mod magic is also blurry in the chat rooms because my mod magic works on game-dev chats ;-)

Just be grateful it was a me (a Code Review mod) and not one of the Parenting, or gardening mods ;-)

Kevin van der Velden

Also, I keep reading your name as rofl -__-

Hey I wasn't there when it went down =p

MickLH

3:55 PM

I don't get how people are still tripping on it lol, it's simple, "politically correct"

rolfl

In my mind, it is simple too. There are places on the internet for crude, rude and lewd ... just not SE.

Go hit 4chan, IRC, or some place that welcomes that.

@GnomeSlice There appears to be some confusion about the 8-hr ban

BlueBug

I agree with all that, but I feel like this "issue" can rise again in future, you have to understand many of us here are young. Young people can be ignorant and less tolerant. Expecting people to have decency is more of common sense, but with that (young people) into consideration, I think it is not a bad choice to have set of "written rules".

rolfl

I am 40-something, I am not going to pretend to be hip, whatever, but, when I was a kid, and I was doing stupid things and playing all-cool, I did it where there were no cops, or teachers, or any other authorities.

BlueBug

here many of us come from many different culture and many different areas. I see your point but still it won't be easily applied to us; youngstars now days are more impulsive and less considerable, and plus different culture coming into play.

user4704

Well the "youngsters" in question are well aware of the issue and the potential consequences.

BlueBug

4:05 PM

very true, actually. Many of us are relatively mature and understanding compared to our age, I think.

user4704

The time for warnings is now past.

MickLH

@BlueBug here try to think of yourself more like a content generator than a chatter

You see you're on a content generating website, part of a program per-se

user4704

And if we were going to put up a set of rules for the chat -- which I don't feel we should need to do, since the site rules are already sufficient -- it wouldn't be a meta post open for contribution by the community, because the community in here has already demonstrated poor choices.

BlueBug

@JoshPetrie Josh, would you be willing to create another chat room that is official but for members of community who just want to have "wild" conversation?

user4704

No.

Kevin van der Velden

4:10 PM

Blah blah blah, why is my event system not passing all the paramters

I NEED THOSE PARAMETERS =[

user4704

That is not what the StackExchange chat is about, regardless of the room.

user4704

If you want that, make an IRC channel.

MickLH

@BlueBug I wrote some chat software similar to this if you want to host it

Kevin van der Velden

OH RIGHT, bloody macros =_=

BlueBug

I get an impression that chat.gamedev, like @MickLH said, should be seen from content generator's point of view, in which case, it makes sense to have strict rules to promote better content, but as member, if I am even considered to be, feel need of another room, IRC channel is fair argument, but if I were to go for IRC channel, it won't be gamedev.stackexchange.com

MickLH

4:12 PM

it actually supports arbitraty HTML messages fit inside an expandable box if they are too large

user4704

@BlueBug Correct, it will not be StackExchange.

MickLH

@BlueBug I would totally host it but it's a pain in the ass hosting a public forum

You have to moderate lol

Otherwise trolls dump CP and you get the feds on your ass

GnomeSlice

@rolfl Feel free to clear it up.

Kevin van der Velden

Well an IRC channel that is moderated (+m?) is simple

GnomeSlice

But I would like to know why I was banned, and why my chatroom was deleted.

rolfl

4:14 PM

I am in the process if it ...

Kevin van der Velden

Noone can talk unless explicitly allowed to

rolfl

@GnomeSlice - 1 thing at a time..... chatroom deletion.

MickLH

oh bother lol, I've got bass to drop bbl

rolfl

I deleted the chatroom because it had little to no content yet, and it was created in order to migrate the off-topic-for-the-whole-of-SE content.

Seth

@VaughanHilts Sorry for any confusion. I'm fine with you moving very off-topic conversations to another room. What I think rotfl was getting at was these conversations were getting inappropriate for SE.

GnomeSlice

4:16 PM

@rolfl Most sites in the network have a general chatroom, with no clearly defined topic.

rolfl

There was nothing of any value in that chat room.

BlueBug

@MickLH but won't it be not posted on gamedev.stackexchange.com? then it is not gamedev.stackexchange.com. If it is not gamedev.stackexchange.com, there is not much value the chat room holds for that I want to be part of. I will have as much interest in being part of the new channel as much as any other, which is not much if it's not gamedev.stackexchange.com

GnomeSlice

@rolfl Maybe not to you, but how do you decide what others find to be of value? Besides which, what reason a person has to create a room is largely irrelevant: the feature to create new chat rooms exists and if there's nothing immediately offensive or abusive about the new room it should be respected.

Seth

Basically what Josh said here.

MickLH

@BlueBug sounds like an ego problem to me, you want SE you're on SE be a content generator or the faulty part of the program is replaced

you want a free for all "wild" zone, well that's exactly the difference between other sites and stack exchange

GnomeSlice

4:19 PM

@rolfl Furthermore, there was a mod present in the room in question, and he said he had no issues with it.

BlueBug

You are right. I want SE. I am now somehow attached to this community. I want to have wild zone but it has to be SE because I want it. Otherwise it has no value to me. But again, I suppose that is not how SE works.

But without this fragile ego that I got while on this community, this community means not much. BlueBug can have personality only if gamedev.SE exists. Without this ego, BlueBug, I don't mean much to this community. And this "wild chat" feeds my personality BlueBug. And without the wild chat, I am afraid of my ego starving.

GnomeSlice

@BlueBug This is pretty much how I feel about SE too.

MickLH

The motto could be "It's nothing personal"

lol

user4704

@BlueBug That sounds like you have deeper personal issues to overcome. You want SE to be a thing it isn't.

MickLH

It feels just like professionalism to me, reminds me of working with OSHA

BlueBug

4:26 PM

@JoshPetrieh You are right. And I am aware Josh :). Certainly I try to fill some portions of me that I lack from SE.

MickLH

And I didn't mean to be so brutal with the ego point, it's just that in a professional environment there's no room for ego

BlueBug

#MickLH it is not brutal but more of plain sight :P and that's why I am yet to be a professional programmer, I guess, ...not because I am not good enough as a programmer OTL

If it has to be, then so be it hehehe. I may still find the "new" SE to be appealing and stick to it, or maybe I will just "die". Either case I guess I don't have any other option.

If I "die" then I will return to real life, I guess, and live more real life, try to fill myself with more real stuff. which is good. If I get to stick here, I am just very content. Either case, both positive outcome :D

Jovito

@Pip

GnomeSlice

@BlueBug Join us

Kevin van der Velden

@GnomeSlice he started the room =p

GnomeSlice

4:41 PM

Derp

Alex M.

for anyone who'd like to talk about !gamedev stuff...

I guess gnomeslice already posted it

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/13872/pubgamedev

Kevin van der Velden

5:52 PM

Damn, I think I should release my python code bindings generator sometime

It's getting pretty awesome actually xp

user4704

What does it offer over existing options?

Kevin van der Velden

@JoshPetrie well basically it generates the C++ code that calls boost::python for the binding

But it generates it from the header file, so I can say this:

Class::OIS::MouseState
Property::OIS::MouseState::.*(X|Y|Z|buttons).*||const
Method::OIS::MouseState::.*buttonDown.*
Method::OIS::MouseState::.*__str__.*||eval_code|lambda state: '<MouseState %s, %s>' % ( state.X.abs, state.Y.abs )||debug

user4704

@MickLH Spam isn't the problem.

user4704

There isn't anything wrong with having off-topic discussion here.

Kevin van der Velden

And it'll export the class MouseState with the properties and the method, and also have a __str__ method with the given python code

user4704

5:59 PM

@KevinvanderVelden How does it parse the header file?

Kevin van der Velden

@JoshPetrie Via CppHeaderParser, I'm not insane =p

user4704

Hm, never seen that before.

user4704

I figured you'd be using something clang-based.

MickLH

@JoshPetrie I don't really get it either lol, I think it's just the spirit of rebellion

Kevin van der Velden

@JoshPetrie I was thinking about that, but this exports it in a really trivial format

Icy Defiance

6:01 PM

yeah I talked with rolfl for a while and once I forced the topic on track he finally admitted off topic stuff is fine as long as it isn't "vulgar or offensive," thus the reason the topic of the room now says "and other polite discussion," emphasis mine.

Kevin van der Velden

Basically just a bunch of nesting dictionaries

Icy Defiance

I don't think he took back the suspensions though

MickLH

Well why? the explanation didn't de-vulgarize the past :P

Kevin van der Velden

Also, I remember reading Clang doesn't export some things, not sure what though

Icy Defiance

@MickLH I'm not sure what you mean.

Vaughan Hilts

6:02 PM

There's really no need to take back suspensions./

They were only 8 hours and long over now.

Icy Defiance

yeah I didn't ask for it. figured I could only push my luck so far.

user4704

@IcyDefiance Yup. The other room is unnecessary given the rules GraceNote set for it, but whatever.

Icy Defiance

I thought that room was frozen

user4704

@KevinvanderVelden It can be a little tricky to integrate with the tools, since the API is largely undocumented.

Icy Defiance

GnomeSlice is the one that created it, not any mod

Vaughan Hilts

6:04 PM

@IcyDefiance They re-created it a few times.

user4704

But it should support it everything; I mean, it can compile anything legal.

Kevin van der Velden

@JoshPetrie yeah, and it's basically (as I understand it) an AST walker, this preps everything into a single object, which is slower, but I don't really care about speed so much

Icy Defiance

@VaughanHilts lol I saw it recreated once, but they did it more? that seems like just asking for trouble.

Vaughan Hilts

@IcyDefiance I think it was re-created like 4 times, and then frozen each time. And then re-created again while I was sleeping.

Alex M.

1

Q: Mentality for the hard initial stage of game development

I feel like there is a lot of excitement involving the initial steps towards developing games. Kids (myself younger self included) get very excited about making games and talk for hours about the games in their imaginations. Then comes the initial game making experience. A lot can happen there...

Icy Defiance

6:05 PM

wow

Alex M.

I think this question can be edited to make it even better

but I'm not sure how

Icy Defiance

yeah I saw the question, but didn't answer because it seems very opinion based

Vaughan Hilts

@JoshPetrie PS: We have a problem data.stackexchange.com/gamedev/query/172449/…

Actually, in fact \everyone\ we have a problem.

We should try and clean up some of the questions where we can. :)

Icy Defiance

I actually answered a question yesterday, and it was upvoted, taking it off the unanswered questions list. It was a very exciting experience.

Kevin van der Velden

I don't see what the problem is from this graph

Alex M.

6:08 PM

I first thought Arthur posted an answer that does not answer the question

but then Byte marked it as duplicate of two questions that seem unrelated (?)

Icy Defiance

@KevinvanderVelden unanswered questions keep going up, basically. I'm not sure of the exact details of that query though, and I'm too lazy to try to parse than sql.

Alex M.

am I the only one who saw more of a careers.se question in there?

Vaughan Hilts

@KevinvanderVelden It plots the amount of unanswered / unvoted questions.

Kevin van der Velden

@IcyDefiance aah ok

Vaughan Hilts

@KevinvanderVelden We don't really have a huge volume of traffic, so there's no real reason a lot of those can't be trimmed down

user4704

6:09 PM

@VaughanHilts What is this showing?

Vaughan Hilts

@JoshPetrie It shows a trend of non-upvoted questions and unanswered questions per tag over time

user4704

Oh.

user4704

Well yes, this is well-known.

Vaughan Hilts

(This tab gamedev.stackexchange.com/unanswered/tagged/?tab=votes)

rolfl

I wrote that SEDE ... if you want some more detail on it ... (by the way, @VaughanHilts ... where di you discover that ... ?)

Kevin van der Velden

6:10 PM

Holy fuck gaming.se, there was a trivial minecraft question "how can I place horizontal glass panes"... my reply "you can't." is apparently worth 4 upvotes in 3 hours -__-

Vaughan Hilts

@rolfl You shared it, it has your name on the bottom. :)

user4704

We have a moderate problem with community engagement.

user4704

We've known this for a while.

Alex M.

@KevinvanderVelden cough the offtopic room

user4704

We don't have enough members contributing good answers, we have too many bad questions, and too little tolerance for closing them.

3

user4704

6:12 PM

@KevinvanderVelden That doesn't seem too unreasonable.

Vaughan Hilts

@KevinvanderVelden Well, if it's the answer, then I don't see a problem with that. :)

user4704

It's better when you answer a question and it gets tweeted from the account bot.

Kevin van der Velden

IT WAS LITERALLY 5 MINUTES. 4 of which was looking up the wiki so I had at least a citation

rolfl

That graph should be used in combination with this one: data.stackexchange.com/gamedev/query/166314/…

Vaughan Hilts

@KevinvanderVelden I answered a question on PNGs off memory in 5 minutes and got 30 upvotes.

user4704

6:13 PM

@KevinvanderVelden Yeah, I've had that happen before.

rolfl

Things are relatively stable, perhaps some concerning changes in decreasing votes ratios, and answer ratios

Vaughan Hilts

@KevinvanderVelden Josh posted a similar answer using PNG meta-data and got 120 >.>

user4704

You also get the opposite every now and then.

user4704

Put a ton of research effort in.

user4704

Zero votes.

user4704

6:14 PM

:D

Vaughan Hilts

Haha, that pisses me off. When I go through the effort to draw nice pictures, diagrams. Clean it up, post. Spend an hour. 0 votes.

Spend 5 minutes, 30 votes. >_____________>

Icy Defiance

VotesQuestionRatio is voting up or down on the question itself, right?

it amuses me that that's the only one going down significantly

because a lot of people are saying they're pretty sick of the bad questions here

rolfl

@IcyDefiance correct

MickLH

Yeah I've stopped wasting rep downvoting the bad questions

user4704

You don't lose reputation from voting on questions.

user4704

6:15 PM

Haven't for at least a year now.

Vaughan Hilts

@JoshPetrie You lose rep downvoting.

rolfl

Even small dips in that graph (the ratios graph) are concerning, because it is the ratio of all-time before that point.

Vaughan Hilts

Or at least, I did a while ago. Maybe it was an answer...

user4704

Yea. Definitely don't lose it for questions.

user4704

Just tried.

Vaughan Hilts

6:16 PM

@JoshPetrie I thought if you had above a certain rep you were immune.

rolfl

In other words, for the ratio to drop 1%, it means that it is possible that no-one has voted on the last 1% of all questions.

user4704

@VaughanHilts Oh maybe, but that seems odd.

MickLH

@JoshPetrie Seems logical, there should be a deterrent for newbies down voting things

Icy Defiance

@rolfl ooh right, so it's bigger than it looks then

MickLH

But no penalty for a trusted user labeling a bad answer

Kevin van der Velden

6:17 PM

@VaughanHilts they both did, that was changed

Icy Defiance

I also thought one loses rep for downvoting things, but I'm not going to just find something to try it on. maybe I can find some documentation...

Vaughan Hilts

Okay, I just confirmed.

I didn't lose rep for downvoting a question, only answers.

Icy Defiance

huh, well okay then. good to know.

Vaughan Hilts

(I found a question I was going to upvote anyway.)

So I downvoted and hten upvoted it

Alex M.

Sounds very much like a wishy-washy motivation question to me. With no correct answer, primarily opinion based and open ended. The linked question addresses what's left after that part is removed. — Byte56 ♦ 6 mins ago

wishy-washy motivation

Icy Defiance

6:21 PM

> Downvotes remove 2 reputation from the post owner.
> Downvotes on answers remove 1 reputation from you, the voter.
> Downvotes on questions are free.
> You can vote 30 times per UTC day. You get an additional 10 votes on questions only.

MickLH

If people aren't self motivating they won't make it anyways

Icy Defiance

stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/vote-down

there we go

still wanted that documentation

Vaughan Hilts

Haha, there you go.

I tried finding but couldn't so I was like 'meh, experiment time'

Icy Defiance

oh right, here it is on GD.SE's site. same thing though. gamedev.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/vote-down

Vaughan Hilts

Ah, nice.

Oliver Schöning

6:49 PM

Is it called K&R even when you dont put else on the same line as the closing bracket of the previous if ?

if () {
}
else {
}

user4704

That's the Stroustrup variation of K&R.

MickLH

No that's Stroustrup

Alex M.

if K&R says if () {
} else {
}

MickLH

lol

Alex M.

then that's no K&R

I propose the Alex M. variation of K&R

if (!cond)
	goto no;
yes:
code
no:
code

MickLH

6:54 PM

Since I encode if and else as completely independent opcodes, I spent probably a good hour figuring out a clean way for the opcodes to be serialized to OneTrueBrace™ since they were coming out Stroustrup on the initial implementation

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