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12:26 AM
How is it going? =)
 
 
3 hours later…
3:11 AM
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez Are you there?
@anon
 
trying to cook, but I have one hand for you
one or two, off and on
 
3:27 AM
@anon What are you cooking?
 
hamburger helper
 
@anon ?
 
beef and noodles with lasagna flavoring
 
@anon Ah. Sounds good.
I am doing an exercise on $f_A(X)={\rm tr}(AX)$.
Proving that it is in the dual of $K^{n\times n}$ for each $A$, that if $f_A(X)=0$ for each $X$ then $A=0$ and finally that $A\mapsto f_A$ is an iso $K^{n\times n}\to (K^{n\times n})^*$. Thought you might have something interesting to say about it.
 
write everything with coordinates and summations
 
3:33 AM
@anon Ah?
What are you ad dressing now? =)
 
every map $K^{n\times n}\to K$ will be of the form $[x_{ij}]\mapsto \sum_{ij}c_{ij}x_{ij}$. the map $f_A$ is of the form $[x_{ij}]\mapsto\sum_{ij}a_{ij}x_{ji}$...
 
@anon So...? It is a linear map.
 
you want to show every elt of $(K^{n\times n})^*$ is of the form $f_A$ for some $A$, among other things. this helps you do that.
 
@anon Hmm... they want to to show that $f_A\in (K^{n\times n})^*$, not the other way around.
Or you're talking about the third point?
 
that $A\mapsto f_A$ has domain $K^{n\times n}$ and codomain $(K^{n\times n})^*$ is obvious. I'm talking about surjectivity of the map.
 
3:38 AM
@anon Yes, so you were talking about that.
OK.
Thanks.
For the second point I just use the canonical matrices, right? @anon
This gives $a_{ij}=0$ for each $i,j$ I choose by taking $E^{kr}=\delta_{ik}\delta_{rj}$
 
yes
 
3:59 AM
Ugh, my teeth hurt.
@anon But, wait.
The first point shows it is a linear transformation. The second shows it is injective. But whenever we have a transformation in equal dimensions $$\text{ injective }\iff\text{ surjective }\iff \text{ bijective }$$
 
yes
 
@anon OK. Then done.
 
4:34 AM
@anon I like your succinctness.
How did the cooking go?
 
pretty good
 
@anon Now I ought to find, given the linear form $3a_{11}-2a_{12}+5a_{22}$ a matrix such that $f_A=\rm that$
 
the transpose of the matrix with 3 as the 11 entry, -2 in the 12 entry and 5 in the 22 entry with 0s elsewhere
 
Right, duh. What you said before! =)
@anon So, in general.
Take a basis $e_{ij}$ of $K^{n\times n}$
Take a linear form $f:K^{n\times n}\to K$.
Consider $|f|_B=[f(e_{ij})]$.
Then $f(X)={\rm tr}(|f|_B^t\;\cdot\;|X|_B)$, @anon
Yes?
 
4:51 AM
yeah
dunno what the letter B is for though
 
@anon I added the detail the matrices must be in the respective basis.
 
ah
 
Else well, one gets wrong results, yes?
 
5:22 AM
@anon If $f$ is an automorphism on a finite dimensional vector space and $\ker f=\ker f^2$, then $f^2=f$, correct?
 
@PeterTamaroff Did you mean endomorphism?
 
@user1 Nope.
$f:V\to V$.
 
:/
 
$\ker f$ is zero for automorphisms...
 
Sorry.
Ah, yes.
I don't mean iso.
Just $f:V\to V$.
So, endo, yes. Sorry.
That.
 
5:25 AM
No, the condition is not good enough to get that $f$ is a projection.
 
in any case, autos are endos so it suffices to exhibit an auto counterexample. take a rotation matrix in 3d for instance.
then both kers are 0 while f^2 is twice the rotation as f is
 
I am trying to show that if $f:V\to V$ is nilpotent and $\dim V=n$; then $f^n=0$.
I am being told to look at $\ker f\subseteq \ker f^2\subseteq\ldots$
I suppose I have to show the inclusions are strict, whence the dimension must increase up to $\dim\ker f^n=n$
Whence $f^n=0$.
@user1
 
@PeterTamaroff I suppose you can try to show that if there is one equality, then that equality is followed by only equalities.
 
@user1 Right, that is what I wanted to do.
 
So if $\ker g=\ker fg$, you want to show $\ker fg=\ker f^2g$.
 
5:35 AM
@user1 OK.
Is that true?
 
@PeterTamaroff I am wondering if this is just misleading, unfortunately.
 
@user1 Why?
 
You can add the relations $f,g$ commute and $\ker f\subseteq\ker g$, I guess.
 
@user1 I'll try to prove $\ker f=\ker f^2\implies \ker f^2=\ker f^3$.
 
@PeterTamaroff I am starting to see a better way. I don't think I ever filled in the details for this problem.
 
5:42 AM
@user1 What is that better way?
 
$\ker f=\ker f^2$ is the same as saying $\ker f\cap f(V)=0$.
 
@PeterTamaroff Do you see how to do it?
 
@user1 Nope.
 
@PeterTamaroff Okay, assume $\ker f^n=\ker f^{n+1}$ and let $x\in\ker f\cap f^n(V)$ (yes I generalized). Write $x=f^n(z)$. Then $0=f(x)=f^{n+1}(z)$, so $x=f^n(z)=0$.
 
6:00 AM
@user1 I don't understand, what did you prove?
 
@PeterTamaroff The equality of the kernels implies $\ker f\cap f^n(V)=0$.
 
OK.
So $\ker f^i=\ker f^{i+1}\implies \ker f\cap \operatorname{im}f^i=0$.
 
Right. Then $f^{i+2}(x)=0$ implies $f^{i+1}(x)\in\ker f\cap f^i(V)=0$.
 
Ah, OK.
 
The assertion $\ker g=\ker fg$ implies $\ker f\cap g(V)=0$ holds using the same proof. And if we also have $fg=gf$, then $f^2g(x)=0$ implies $fg(x)\in\ker f\cap g(V)=0$.
This shows that $\ker g=\ker fg$ implies $\ker fg=\ker f^2g$ when ever $f$ and $g$ commute like what I tried at the beginning.
 
6:12 AM
@user1 Right.
OK, done.
I'm off to sleep.
Byes.
Thanks.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:26 AM
fHeya
 
@N3buchadnezzar hi
 
Why is nobodoy just showing that the integral is strictly positive and decreasing for x>1 and by simple computation the answer is 4? math.stackexchange.com/questions/459828/…
 
the indefinite integral is strictly positive and increasing as the interval integrated over increases. the integrand is strictly positive and decreasing, which is obvious and says nothing about convergence.
robjohn mentioned that integration by parts yields the actual value
someone should perhaps point out the relevance of the gamma function in all this
 
@anon Yeah the integral should equal $2\Gamma(2)$ if i am not mistaken.
 
you are
one factor of 2 comes from the substitution, another factor of 2 comes from the interval being the whole line instead of just the positive half of the real line
so it's $4\Gamma(2)=4\cdot(2-1)!=4$
 
8:38 AM
This semester I am barely taking ny mathematics, It will be somewhat strange..
Only statistics, and some quantum mechanics. Although the latter is more or less pure mathematics. Combination of function analysis and algebra..
Any idea how to show $(1)$ from $(2)-(4)$ + Abels ?
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/459735/dilogarithm-inversionformula-textli-2z-textli-21-z-zeta2
I have already showed it with using the integral definition and derivation, but wanted to see if there were a purely algebraic approach =)
 
do you mean show (4) from (1)-(3) plus Abel's?
 
Oh, yes. Silly me.
 
nothing I see atm
 
@anon Fine =) I was looking here arxiv.org/pdf/hep--th/9408113.pdf and it seems they have proven it on page 7. The problem is they use the L(x) = dilog(x) + log x log (1 - x) function instead. Following the same steps gives me a bit of mess thugh
And I am not able to come up with the expression between $(1.7)$ and $(1.8)$
 
 
1 hour later…
10:00 AM
@anon Hey
 
hey
 
my lecturer claimed that $\Bbb{C}[C_2 \times C_2]$ is isomorphic to $\Bbb{C}[V_4]$ but why is this true?
first the multiplication in the individual groups is not the same @anon
 
isn't V4 the klein-four group?
 
yea
 
isn't the klein four group iso to C2 x C2 ?
 
10:02 AM
sorry replace $V_4$ with cyclic group of order $4$
 
ah
you'll want to find somewhere to send the generator of C4 into C[C2 x C2], if there's an iso at hand
 
right
oh wait
@anon of course
I just need to send it to $x + y$
 
hmm..
 
where $x,y$ are two elements of order $2$
 
ah, right.
 
10:06 AM
does x+y have order four?
 
I'm checking
hmmm no
 
perhaps normalize x+iy
(x+iy)^4=(x^2+2ixy-y^2)^2=(2ixy)^2=-4 in C[x,y]/(x^2-1,y^2-1)
 
wait I got zero the fuck
 
so make C[z]/(z^4-1)->C[x,y]/(x^2-1,y^2-1) send z to (x+iy)/u where u is a 4th root of -4
extend C-linearly; map is surjective by considering vspace dimensions
actually I'm not sure if it's surjective
 
It is.
 
10:16 AM
the determinant of my 4 x 4 matrix is not zero
 
god's in his heaven and all's right with the world, goodie
2
 
@anon to check the map is surjective
just check the determinant of $
 
You can construct y+ix and then (x+iy)+i(y+ix)=2iy.
 
$\left(\begin{array}{cccc} 0 & 2& 0 & -4 \\ 1 & 0 & -2 & 0 \\ 1 & 0 & 2i & 0 \\ 0 &2 & 0 & 0 \end{array}\right)$ is not zero @anon @user1
 
You want 01i0 in the first column
 
10:21 AM
ok
oh fuck
 
Second column is 000(2i), etc.
 
ah shit what the fuck I messed up
 
Calculating the determinant using the second column's only nonzero value proves the determinant is nonzero.
 
@user1 I got 16 - 16i
 
I didn't calculate it.
 
10:25 AM
thanks @anon
 
@BenjaLim I would never have guessed that isomorphism was true btw.
 
one might also argue that C[C4] is iso to C^4 via factoring z^4-1 into four linear factors, then observe C[C2 x C2] has four LI idempotents (1, x, y, xy).
 
Hmm, it seems strange because the usual example given of isomorphic group algebras with non-isomorphic groups are for the non-abelian ones of order $8$
and it seems strange that the two rings should be isomorphic as the groups have very different characters
Does having isomorphic group rings not imply having the same character tables?
 
hmmm
 
Or is that the other way, and we need the group algebras to be isomorphic as Hopf algebras to get identical character tables?
Hmm, no, since the representations only depend on the group ring, not the comultiplication, we should get the same characters if the rings are isomorphic. But those two groups have very different character tables, since one has only real entries and the other does not
 
10:37 AM
@TobiasKildetoft do you know how to tell if whether or not given a set of idempotents of $\Bbb{C}[G]$ that we have all of them? @anon
 
What am I missing?
@BenjaLim no, sorry.
 
ok
 
iso'ing C[G] with a sum of matrix algebras makes it a linear algebra problem
 
@anon what am I missing in my way to the conclusion that the two group rings considered above cannot be isomorphic?
 
@anon yea but now I want to understand why the Young symmetrizers form a complete set of idempotents without saying that the number of partitions is the number of isomorphism classes of irreps, etc
 
10:44 AM
@TobiasKildetoft I'm not familiar with the minutia of information-recovery between algebras, tables and groups. might it be the scalars used?
actually, I'm not familiar with the overarching facts, let alone the details
Since ${\bf C}[A]\cong {\bf C}^{\oplus n}\cong{\bf C}[B]$ for any abelian groups $A$ and $B$ of order $n$, finite abelian group algebras over complex scalars shouldn't be expected to provide much information
 
@anon only as vectorspaces, not as rings, surely
 
C[G] is C-alg iso to a sum of End(V)'s as V runs over the irreps of G. The irreps of an abelian group are 1-dim.
 
but all End's for irreps over C are 1-dimensional
no matter if the group is abelian
 
huh? if V is not 1-dim then End(V) is not 1-dim
and nonabelian groups in general have irreps V with dim(V)>1
 
any non-zero endomorphism is an automorphism and thus a scalar
since the rep is irreducible
 
10:56 AM
${\rm End}_{\bf C}(V)$, not ${\rm End}_{{\bf C}[G]}(V)$
 
@anon I have a question
I have a map going from $\Bbb{C}[S_d]a_\lambda b_\lambda \to \Bbb{C}[S_d] b_\lambda a_\lambda$
say $f$
and a map going the other way say $g$
but the problem is $f \circ g$ is a scalar multiple of the identity
how are the two things isomorphic then?
 
@anon but then I don't see how you could ever go back to getting an iso as algebras, since you have forgotten all the structure as a algebra
what you say should mean that the group algebra is uniquely determined by the dimensions of the irreducible reps along with their multiplicities
 
@TobiasKildetoft I am not sure what you mean by "go back to getting"; C[G] is C-algebra isomorphic to a direct sum of matrix algebras End_C(V) over irreps V
@TobiasKildetoft yes
 
ahh, by Artin-Wedderburn, right?
 
yes
 
11:03 AM
ahh, and the whole question of characters requires a comultiplication, since we need conjugation to make sense (conjugation by the group-like elements that is)
so the example with the non-abelian groups of order $8$ is just usually chosen because it is the smallest example of non-abelian groups with isomorphic group rings
 
@BenjaLim isomorphic as Sd-reps?
hmm.
 
yea
 
@BenjaLim if the composition is a scalar, then normalize by that scalar (or rather, by $\sqrt{}$ of it)
 
so you're saying f(g(the whole thing)) is just the scalar multiples of the identity?
 
yea
This follows from Schur's lemma assuming $\Bbb{C}[S_d]c_\lambda$ is irreducible
 
11:13 AM
@BenjaLim do you mean the the composition has image the scalars, or that the composition is a scalar multiple of the identity?
 
the identity map
 
the composition is scalar multiple of the identity
 
now, scalar multiplication is an automorphism of any rep
 
@BenjaLim then normalize as I said
 
ok
 
11:15 AM
check that rescaling both $f$ and $g$ by dividing by a squareroot of that given scalar will give you the identity when you compose them
 
ok yea
 
11:48 AM
@anon Also
I found out that if $a_\lambda b_\lambda a_\lambda b_\lambda = n_\lambda a_\lambda b_\lambda$
then by applying the involution operator to both sides indeed we get $(b_\lambda a_\lambda)^2 = n_\lambda b_\lambda a_\lambda$
 
12:36 PM
@BenjaLim Heya =)
Mind looking at some simple algebra? I cant for the life of me figure out where my mistake is
 
1:03 PM
@N3buchadnezzar where?
 
$$\displaystyle \operatorname{Li}_2\left( \frac{\sqrt{5}-1}{2} \right) = \frac{\pi^2}{10} - \log^2 \left( \frac{\sqrt{5}-1}{2}\right)$$
@skullpatrol Look at the bottom of the post here
One is supposed to solve the equations (1) and (2) to obtain the value above
Solving the system of equations does not give me what I want, I am off by 1/5..
Solving a linear system of equations should be childs play
$$\displaystyle \frac{3}{2} \operatorname{Li}_2 \left( \frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} \right) - \operatorname{Li}_2 \left( \frac{\sqrt{5}-1}{2} \right) = -\frac{1}{2} \log^2 \left( \frac{\sqrt{5}+1}{2}\right) = \frac{3}{2} \operatorname{Li}_2(1 - \Phi) - \operatorname{Li}_2(\Phi) = -\frac{1}{2}\log^2(\Phi) \tag{1}$$
$$
\displaystyle \operatorname{Li}_2 \left( \frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2}\right) + \operatorname{Li}_2 \left(\frac{\sqrt{5}-1}{2}\right) = \frac{\pi^2}{6} - \log\left(\frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} \right) \log \left(\frac{\sqrt{5}-1}{2}\right)
\Rightarrow
\operatorname{Li}_2(1 - \Phi) + \operatorname{Li}_2(\Phi) = \frac{\pi^2}{6} \tag{2}
$$
Anyway denoting $\text{Li}_2(1-\Phi) = A$ and $\text{Li}_2(\Phi) = B$ gives
$$
\frac{3}{2} A - B = - \frac{1}{2}\log^2(\Phi) \quad \text{and} \quad
A + B = \frac{\pi^2}{6}
$$
Which should be easy to solve..
 
 
3 hours later…
4:42 PM
Identities, always identies. That is all that I ever find in mathematics.
*identities
 
Hi there. :-)
 
@MatsGranvik: A question. Do you think we need Advanced Calculus tag using for some questions?
 
@BabakS. What is advanced calculus?
 
It can be a tag including Multiple integrals, Line or surface integrals, Gamma and Beta functions, Fourier series, Elliptic integrals and...
 
4:51 PM
@BabakS. Do we need more than the real Analysis and "special functions" tag?
 
@N3buchadnezzar: I know that, these tags and others like Improper integral tag exist. This is just a question. :-)
 
@BabakS. I guess advanced calculus is in the eye of the beholder. To some fourier series is just an extension of their arm so to say.
 
5:52 PM
@N3buchadnezzar: Thanks and sorry for the delay. ;-)
 
In a negative base do negative numbers and positive numbers swap roles?
 
6:08 PM
why doesn't the chat appear on main site?
 
6:19 PM
This guy is pissing me the hell off.
 
@Arkamis Who?
 
The OP in that question.
Ask your goodness forsaken question, rather than beating around the damn bush
 
@Arkamis Heh.
True.
 
6:40 PM
@PeterTamaroff do you have time for a quick chat
 
@Alizter Yes.
 
6:57 PM
I mean, this question is absolutely priceless
"I REFUSE TO SPECIFICALLY ASK A QUESTION AND THAT'S A FAULT OF MATLAB"
Please vote to close so this goes away: math.stackexchange.com/q/460458/31475
 
7:08 PM
@PeterTamaroff I'm still trying to understand what you were saying about my last point. Put aside the uselessness of what I am trying to do. I understand that you cannot integrate using elementary integration methods is that what you were trying to say?
 
@Alizter No. I am saying you cannot find a function $F$ which is a combination of elementary functions such that $F'(x)=x^x$.
 
@PeterTamaroff hmm... I see. So if I were to carry on integrating the function It wouldn't be considered a combination of elementary functions because of the fact that it would contain infinite sums?
 
@Alizter No, infinite sums can yield elementary functions.
 
@PeterTamaroff Then what part of the ∫x^x dx is non-elementary?
 
@Alizter What part?
Sorry, I don't know how to answer you question.
 
7:18 PM
@PeterTamaroff But why is it that I can solve this integral?
 
@Alizter You mean "I can't"?
@user1 Sup, Jimmy?
 
@PeterTamaroff So far, If my method is correct, this is what I have. And I believe that this is solvable.
$$=\sum_{n=0}^\infty n!^{-1}\left(x^{-n}\left(x\log^n(x)+\sum_{k=1}^{n-1}(-1)^{n-k}\frac{n!}{k!} x\log^k(x)+(-1)^nx+C\right)-\int nx^{-n-1}\left(x\log^n(x)+\sum_{k=1}^{n-1}(-1)^{n-k}\frac{n!}{k!} x\log^k(x)+(-1)^nx+C\right)\space dx\right)$$
 
@Alizter What do you mean by "solvable"?
 
@PeterTamaroff Not sure about jimmy, but at any rate, I am doing alright.
 
@user1 Since I don't know your name, I chose that one.
 
7:22 PM
@PeterTamaroff there is one integral left to evaluate
 
@user1 Would you care to suggest a better option?
 
@PeterTamaroff No, jimmy is fine.
 
@user1 I have my Analysis final tomorrow.
 
@PeterTamaroff In other words, you have nothing to worry about.
 
@user1 Oh, well...
No pressure!
@user1 You know, the problem on the nilpotent transformation had been haunting me for a long while!
@Alizter You're being stubborn.
 
7:31 PM
@PeterTamaroff I apologise
 
@PeterTamaroff Ah, cool. :)
 
@PeterTamaroff Out of curiosity how would you tackle the problem?
 
@Alizter I wouldn't tackle it. I don't know Differential Galois Theory. =)
 
user61230
So here's a question that came up recently in RPG.SE chat:
 
user61230
In the D&D 4E world, figures move in squares, including along diagonals. This is a change from D&D 3.5e, which measured diagonal distances as longer than linear distances.
 
user61230
7:41 PM
The theory goes that if a unit walks around a 5x5 square, then they're actually walking in a circle.
 
user61230
However, this results in a weird problem: one can have a 45-45-90 right triangle whose sides are the same length. So, we've begun theorizing about the nature of these conditions. We came across the Chebyshev distance, which is a close model. But, to truly understand what happens in this world, we need a formula for something fundamental: The area of a triangle.
 
user61230
What are your thoughts on this?
 
The "theory" of this decision to have diagonals equal one unit is really just pragmatic - it is too painful to do the math :)
 
user61230
Fair enough, but it's still interesting :P
 
7:57 PM
There is a metric on the real plane which calculates the distance between $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$ as $\max(|x_1-x_2|,|y_1-y_2|)$. This is sort of the limit of your distance metric with smaller and smaller squares. Odd metrics like this abound a lot. There really isn't a way to treat this intuitively as a geometry because there can be multiple shortest paths between two points, for example. So it violates a basic property of geometry.
 
user61230
Under the premise that it's an entirely different geometry than the one we know, I don't see a reason why that would make a difference.
 
Alternatively, we could attempt to find some sort of non-conformal map that converts circles to squares, and vice versa
 
user61230
If this were to exist, then there could potentially be multiple shortest paths, yes.
 
user61230
Alternately, we could say that the character isn't walking in a circle, and that's just the way reality is.
 
Hex paper days were way cooler for D&D. I loved hex paper.
(Still has shortest path problems, I just mean it looked cooler. :) )
 
8:21 PM
does $\int nx^{-n-1}F_n=F_n(-x^{-n})$ Where F is some function
Wait
Anyone clarify this ^^^^
wait dont worry
 
 
1 hour later…
9:53 PM
@user1
Assume $\ker f^i=\ker f^{i+1}$. Then $f^{i+2}(v)=0\implies f(v)\in \ker f^{i+1}\implies f(v)\in \ker f^{i}\implies f^{i+1}(v)=0\implies v\in\ker f^{i+1}$.
 
@PeterTamaroff Yes, indeed. :)
 
@user1 I am peeking at Jordan forms. Looks awfully tortuous.
 
10:23 PM
@PeterTamaroff guess what!
 
@Alizter What?
 
@PeterTamaroff I found the integral :D
 
@Alizter OK?
 
:(
 
10:49 PM
@user1
@robjohn
 
Ovi
11:15 PM
Guys I wanted to let you know that I found an easy way to type in Latex. If you go to Desmos Graphing Calculator desmos.com/calculator you can type in the equation much more easily, and when you copy and paste it it shows it in Latex
 
11:40 PM
$$\int_0^\infty \left(\frac{\tan^{-1}x}{x}\right)^2dx={\pi}\log 2$$
@chris'sis
 
11:56 PM
hello. I just wanted to know if I proved this correctly. I have to prove if p|lcm(a,b) then p|a or p|b. So we assume p|lcm(a,b). But since ab is a multiple of a and b we have p|ab. Hence by euclids lemma we have p|a or p|b
 
@user60887 Looks fine. p divides lcm(a,b), which divides ab. So p | ab, so p|a or p|b
 
oh ok thanks
 

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